Maybe I am part of the problem to be off-topic here, but to me both the original and the rebuilds are for more mature audiences. Honestly I don't see how someone younger than a certain age can appreciate the village scenes.

I haven't watched any previous shorts so I have no expectations about the new one.

Honestly, with the rebuilds and everything after EoE, to me these are just optional to fans. It can be an "it's a wonderful life" type alternate reality, or a what it scenario, or just a changed retelling. Anime has done that before with Yamato and Macross. For me I like the notion that Rei gave Shinji the power to alter the world up to a point after she merged with Lilith and that enabled the next cycle, as the last film says that there are cycles. Now in this one he chooses to end the cycle because he has more power to do so. To me the idea of Shinji confronting his father--and successfully no less, gives a certain gratification as an alternate ending, despite the great silliness of Shin's second half, after the village.

If the new short sucks, just drop it out of your head canon. You are a fan. You have the power.

I wonder, tangentially, if anyone rejected/rejects EoE and thinks "No. Only the TV ending for me." Someone out there must feel that way. I disagree, but I don't think I would argue with them--not at length anyway.

kuribo-04 wrote:Or people just don't see there's more to say.
Why do people not ever talk about how the two male villains are fought by a female led group?

Because that's a pretty weaksauce angle. At the beginning of 3.0 Misato commits two fundamental screw ups: First, she allows an unidentified "specimen" into the command center, without being sure if it's truly Shinji, UNTIL Ritsuko confirms it. What if it was an angel? The choker wasn't armed until Ritsuko does so a bit later. Those puny machine guns are going to stop it? Yeah right /s. It's a genuinely horrible order. And not one adult could've told her this was a bad idea? Really? Seen some outside this site trying to sweep this under the rug before as a "miscommunication issue", but unarguably it has nothing to do with miscommunication and everything to do with rationality.

Then, she knows how frail Shinji is mentally yet allowed to keep him in the dark about the outside world, the curse of Eva and had Ritsuko and Asuka talk to him first. She knows Ritsuko is generally cold to everyone and indifferent to him and still permitted her to speak about a subject of life or death(the choker) to him? And then allowing Asuka being her immature self even AFTER 14 DAMN YEARS babbling about her pent up anger and grief, and the curse of Eva without giving a single hint what that even means. It's like a bad joke, laughably being completely out of place. How hard is it to not provoke or scare too much impact boy? Apparently impossible.

Misato is somehow more incompetent than her past self. "Well, she didn't want to talk because she was angry at herself as shown in the next movie." But that's EXACTLY the perfect opportunity for her to start slowly patching things up, at least as much as possible before the angels attacked and afterwards. Also, that's assuming it was the same reason both in 3.0 and the next one, and not something retroactively made up in the latter. Anno has mentioned before that she's supposed to be incompetent as proved by going off intuition and other aspects in both the TV series and pre-timeskip, but that begs the question. Was the intention post-timeskip to see her as incompetent or not? The presentation of the movies, particularly the action scenes seem to want to portray her as an efficient leader so I don't buy that that was the intention. Either way, she's a terrible leader. It's not a great example for said female-led group to have awful leadership.

P.S.: It's relevant to bring up that Kaji is implied to be the founder of Wille.

AlphaZero wrote:Misato is somehow more incompetent than her past self.

Well, was there really a point in anything that Wille did, if at the end they just brought Gendo what he wanted on a silver platter? Both EVA-01 and EVA-02 with Asuka inside. They might've been better off not doing anything and winning. And Ritsuko, Mari, and Misato knew that he needed exactly that and did nothing with this knowledge. Or rather it seems like they know everything about everything in their universe, but not the most obvious and coincidentally most important information? It's like they are allergic to talking to one another. There was no sophisticated plan except a frontal assault on the Nerv base... In NGE, her plans had multiple stages and at the end of the day delivered results, while in the Rebuilds, she just failed, because Gendo was multiple steps ahead of them at the moment... and for 14 years prior. If anything, it's the worst female leadership representation I've seen in a while.

And Asuka's actions are also very weird. Despite not trusting anybody, to the point of grabbing a gun at the first knock at the door, she lets Rei Q—an enemy soldier clone whom they had fought for the past years, and up until a few minutes ago—come with them into one of the few safe places on the planet. What if Rei Q was brainwashed to kill everyone on sight or give intel to the enemy? Asuka, Mari, and Shinji all had to wear explosive collars at all times and live in their living quarters stuffed full of TNT, but Rei, who was ready to kill everybody just hours before, gets to walk around little babies and vulnerable civilians without any restrictions or observation.

I'm not saying that Rei had to be like that, but it goes against everything we know about Asuka's character before and after returning to Village 3.

If the new 13-minute short does not tell Asuka's, Misato's, and/or Mari's story, at least briefly explaining some parts of the 14-year skip, it will honestly be a waste of time. The change was so drastic that giving no reason or explanations for it honestly just makes it all random. Not that I think it can save those movies' story or anything—that ship has sailed—but some clarity would not hurt.

Weird_ocean wrote:

AlphaZero wrote:Misato is somehow more incompetent than her past self.

Well, was there really a point in anything that Wille did, if at the end they just brought Gendo what he wanted on a silver platter? Both EVA-01 and EVA-02 with Asuka inside. They might've been better off not doing anything and winning. And Ritsuko, Mari, and Misato knew that he needed exactly that and did nothing with this knowledge. Or rather it seems like they know everything about everything in their universe, but not the most obvious and coincidentally most important information? It's like they are allergic to talking to one another. There was no sophisticated plan except a frontal assault on the Nerv base... In NGE, her plans had multiple stages and at the end of the day delivered results, while in the Rebuilds, she just failed, because Gendo was multiple steps ahead of them at the moment... and for 14 years prior. If anything, it's the worst female leadership representation I've seen in a while.

One of the reason i just don't care about the 3.0 and 3.0+1.0 world, humanity or WILLE in general is... That by the point Shinji comes back it's clear that Gendo already won... Even with the "god slaying ship" WILLE can't simply win. Because of that i just don't care if village-03 is the place of infinite HOPE, or if touji has a family with hikari now because we the viewer(as of 3.0+1.0) know is a matter of time for everything to end in a impact related apocalipse. World is just not "there". There is no reason why NERV has infinite resources in a dead planet to build a infinite army. There is no hope for people either because the pillars could stop working at any moment and everyone dies, there is no plan for WILLE beyond defeating Gendo someday by miracle defeat NERV and destroy their Eva's, the fact that Shinji with godlike Powers and memories from prior loops decided to revert the damage and delete every tech avaible related to Evangelion shows that pandora's box was opened in the second impact and everyone was living on borrowed time at the hands of SEELE or NERV.

And the fun part is, Misato and ritsuko are implied to be the leaders of what's left of humanity, because after the 4 impact, one would think someone would pick a phone and call Misato and ritsuko wanting a little explanation about why the world nearly ended again when WILLE as every counter avaible to avoid a impact event(DSS chocker, 2 Evangelions, 2 war veteran pilots and the now fully funtioning WUNDER), it get even more bizarre when in universe Shinji expend at minimum about 30 days inside NERV before Unit 13 activation and WILLE is just gone... No frontal assault on NERV, no counter attack, not even a little show of lights exploding(that implies a battle in NERV's outer defenses) in the distance while kaworu and Shinji are having their little talk seeing the stars to show that WILLE it's actually trying to do something to reach Shinji(the extremely dangerous impact trigger in the hands of NERV), but somehow when Shinji enters Unit 13 WILLE sudenly appears and Asuka and Mari reach Shinji/kaworu in record time and Mari has enough time to take a position for a sniper nest were she has multiple battery's and back up weapons for Asuka. It's not a people have problems comunicating, what hurt 3.0 it's the "events need to happen or the movie fall's" the most critical example is when Asuka the war veteran rans out of battery in the middle of her battle against Shinji... How does a barely trained 14 year pilot that is also holding back fights a 14 year war veteran and best's her it's just funny even if Unit 13 is somekind of super-eva even before of it's awakening.

Weird_ocean wrote:If the new 13-minute short does not tell Asuka's, Misato's, and/or Mari's story, at least briefly explaining some parts of the 14-year skip, it will honestly be a waste of time. The change was so drastic that giving no reason or explanations for it honestly just makes it all random. Not that I think it can save those movies' story or anything—that ship has sailed—but some clarity would not hurt.

1)I really hope it's a Mari/Asuka centered OVA that goes about their firts days on WILLE, that explains how they got their hands on Unit 08 and explores a little about Misato who would be dealing with the loss of Kaji and still being pregnant while leading WILLE.

2) or something that shows a little lights post canon to the characters of Shinji, Mari, kaworu, Rei and Asuka and were they are at the end of the history, like the group going to have a little reunion(if they are actually on the same place) or showing what their lives are while separated(be it them in the same world but different places or different plains of existance).

3) a small short animation about the inmediate fallout of the near third impact, kaworu's arrival, NERV personel being detained, Mari's past or Kaji's time playing all sides while forming WILLE and that explains how Misato got pregnant on accident when it was clear in 2.0 that they were not returning to be a couple(maybe Shinji's dead and re-living the second impact trauma pushed Misato to do some reckless things like using sex as a cope mechanisms but then this implies that Kaji just... Had sex with Misato with no protection while the world is ending and he is planning with her a extremely dangerous rebellion against NERV and SEELE and the woman is emotionally in a very bad place )

AlphaZero wrote:Because that's a pretty weaksauce angle. At the beginning of 3.0 Misato commits two fundamental screw ups: First, she allows an unidentified "specimen" into the command center, without being sure if it's truly Shinji, UNTIL Ritsuko confirms it. What if it was an angel? The choker wasn't armed until Ritsuko does so a bit later. Those puny machine guns are going to stop it? Yeah right /s.

Why wouldnt they. The film tells us its enough security.

Then, she knows how frail Shinji is mentally yet allowed to keep him in the dark about the outside world, the curse of Eva and had Ritsuko and Asuka talk to him first.

Man I was over this so often the last decade. They do what they can.

If anything, it's the worst female leadership representation I've seen in a while.

Only if you take the over the top "lol Gendo planned everthing" at face value.
Which why would one do that.
Also Wille stops the Final Impact so they do exactly what tbeyd set out to do.

kuribo-04 wrote:Why wouldnt they. The film tells us its enough security.

That's more the characters assuming it is secure and before you or anyone says that the bio data matches that of Shinji, they have no idea of the nature of angels(see their failure to come up with a plan to stop the 12th and implied they didn't know about the 13th either) making it possible for it to be an angel that perfectly copies his genetic data and mimic him. Are those even anti angel bullets? Not to mention, there's also an interim between Misato ordering the soldiers to retire and the choker being armed where everyone is completely defenseless. Crappy excuse.

Man I was over this so often the last decade. They do what they can.

More nonsense, so at no point Misato could've said "We'll talk about it later" or "You'll be up to date in the interrogation room"? Or even have Sakura partially explain things calmly to him? At least make it sound like he isn't completely useless. And again allowing Ritsuko and Asuka to talk first is a bad call, like, she has no control for the behaviour of her own crew and you'll keep hearing about it because it's a failure of the movie. Try again.

Weird_ocean wrote:If the new 13-minute short does not tell Asuka's, Misato's, and/or Mari's story, at least briefly explaining some parts of the 14-year skip, it will honestly be a waste of time. The change was so drastic that giving no reason or explanations for it honestly just makes it all random. Not that I think it can save those movies' story or anything—that ship has sailed—but some clarity would not hurt.

I expect nothing, I mean, if it's something purely comedic, I think Anno will be fine. After all, episodes 27 and 28 were well made. On the other hand, if it's a serious story... Well I'll just quote Bubsy: "What could possibly go wrong?" Wouldn't it be funny if the short is a distraction and they announce a major project shortly after at the event? Also, all those other logical errors you mentioned on post-timeskip Misato's part, it actually makes me rethink the whole thing. Using her as an example of a good leader at all is straight up trolling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR7p7cJdV6Q

This is probably gonna be some sort of retrospective documentary I think?

Happy new year, everyone.

FelipeFritschF wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR7p7cJdV6Q

This is probably gonna be some sort of retrospective documentary I think?

Happy new year, everyone.

This is more of an ad for the event in general. The short is still a mystery AFAIK.
It looks like it's gonna be an awesome event honestly. Reminder this was announced like over a year ago.

kuribo-04 wrote:Only if you take the over the top "lol Gendo planned everthing" at face value.

Which why would one do that.

Not sure what you mean. Why would one not take that at face value? What's the alternative?

kuribo-04 wrote:Also Wille stops the Final Impact so they do exactly what tbeyd set out to do.

But that doesn't mean anything in itself, nor does any decision made by any writer, because any writer can make any decision at any time. They win the day because the script says they do, yes, but whether sufficient justification in-universe is given is going to depend on the viewer. For me, any reliance on a mcguffin is very hard to see as anything but the worst option, and is a lazier alternative to something that depicts the nuance of actual difficult struggle. Especially if it's a series that never relied on one before; it reeks of desperation. It reminds me of the debacle that was Rise of Skywalker, which is another case of a series of films stretched so far beyond narrative justification of its own existence that it has to rely on crutches at the last moment, when it becomes impossible to delay so any longer ... or, if you like, a bungled series of 2 steps forward, 3 steps back production self-doubt that has to live with the consequences of essentially undoing a too-daring up-ending (Q, The Last Jedi) that existed, in the first place, as course-correction for being too samey (Jo, Ha, The Force Awakens). Either way, these don't strike me as artistic choices; they strike me as production decrees and their consequences, the logical outcome of choppy water when you make hard lefts followed by hard rights on the ship's wheel.

Gendo is 1337 becuz he's so hax0rz but then he isn't becuz reasons (ie, magic object).

kuribo-04 wrote:I think it would be the opposite ...

Why though?

A female-led coalition is not in itself feminist. I addressed the scope of much of the disagreement already, which you've conflated as 'there are butt shots,' but the gist is just that the female characters are sidelined, especially compared to their original counterparts.

Honestly I think it is a poor choice to view the Rebuilds as a substitute for the original.

It can either be a sequel or a commentary, or a kind of "it's a wonderful life" alternative universe. In the latter case, I think it serves as commentary.

I definitely agree that SOME of the problem is business/production end stuff, and that this was also the problem with Star Wars post-sale.

Darth Plato wrote:Honestly I think it is a poor choice to view the Rebuilds as a substitute for the original.

It can either be a sequel or a commentary, or a kind of "it's a wonderful life" alternative universe. In the latter case, I think it serves as commentary.

I don't think anyone does. Rebuild tries really hard not to be EVA, to break the formula. But at the end of the day, those movies are not different enough to stand on their own, and not good enough to be on the same level as the original. And Shin doesn't even work as a commentary, because the original was already a commentary on itself and the audience. A commentary on the commentary feels excessive, and redundant.

OG EVA is timeless, because it touches upon themes that eternally will be present in the subconsciousness of every human; like the warmth of our mother, the strict gaze of our father, first love, desire and lust, our detachment and isolation from the rest of the humanity, and eternal questions of who we are, where we are from, where are we going, life, death and what happens beyond. Those themes are primal, we respond to them instinctively and viscerally. You can try to find those themes in Rebuilds, but they are diluted, watered down by a large degree.

The themes of Rebuild and Shin specifically, focus on finishing the movie, saying goodbye to the characters of the movie, and that having friends is important. There is nothing wrong with these themes per se, as they are also present in the original. But, that's about it. So, it's not surprising that some, including myself, don't feel the need to categorize Rebuilds at all.

I mean, the paradox to that premise is, like, why would you want to be the anti-Eva anyway? Eva is a raw and original work. Isn't 99% of anime already Eva's opposite? Isn't that definitionally setting out to make something without originality?

Axx°N N. wrote:I mean, the paradox to that premise is, like, why would you want to be the anti-Eva anyway? Eva is a raw and original work. Isn't 99% of anime already Eva's opposite? Isn't that definitionally setting out to make something without originality?

That's true to an extent. I love EVA, so by definition if something tries not to be it, there is a very little chance that I'm going to like it.

I understand the reasoning behind the attempt: Anno has changed. Not only that, but Anno also always changing. I would define him as a director without a style. Each of his movies is different, in style and approach. The look of his film defined by the tools at his disposal; to save money on production and still create an interesting visuals. I always admired him for that. Sure some elements are alike, but depending on the tools that he's using, his film shift in tone as if made by different people. It's just how Anno is. He likes to change things.

My problem with Rebuild is not that Anno tried to make it anti-EVA, but that he failed at it. Every single change and every single set up that was supposed to break the EVA mold, be it the story or the characters was abandoned (case in point, Mari), and the ending of Shin, is a very vulgar return to the EOE formula and imagery, but without all the "sad stuff". That makes the ending of Shin more about EOE than about the Rebuild films.

I would rather see him be bold, and going in a completely different direction, but it seems he doesn't have it in him anymore. Otherwise, he would not have made EVA again in the first place.

That makes the ending of Shin more about EOE than about the Rebuild films.

This is what I mean about it being a commentary. Everything in it is a reflection of or a response to the original. So any significance it has is in making one think about the original, or comes from a comparison with the original. Thus one appreciates the original by contrast or finds some satisfaction in relation to it if one sees Rebuild as resolving or solving the original. It is full of "patches" too like the scene where Misato explains that security could have prevented Toji from punching Shinji but chose not to do so. Stuff like this, or the conversation with Asuka on the beach, amount to comments or fixes on the original, and one can take them in different ways. You can watch the original without the rebuild but all or most of the interest to be found in the rebuild comes from its counterpoint or commentary on NGE.

One might say "the meat is in the meta" with rebuild, irrespective of whether you like that particular meat.

Darth Plato#945878 wrote: This is what I mean about it being a commentary.

If it is a commentary, I don't really see any value in it, because I didn't learn anything new about the original from it. I don't even think it was intended as a commentary by the creators to begin with. What about it is a commentary? What ideas or information does it convey about the original that we didn't know already? "I'm tired of making EVA again. I need to finish it again. Bye Bye all Evangelion" is not much of a commentary. It sounds more like a contract Anno needed to sign as proof that we watched the movie and he's done with it. Just pure statement of a fact.

"What if people around Shinji were not broken?" Again, we already had that in the school comedy skit from Episode 26. And to be honest, it is more convincing than the Village 3 scene, because we don't really see much change in Shinji after he boarded the Wille ship, except his willingness to go into battle, which he showed before with Rei. Is it that he needed to talk his dad out of genociding the rest of the human race? Or that we got to know Gendo's backstory? Sure, you can have that one. But I don't care enough about Gendo to count that as a win for the movie.

And it's not like it's anything new either. For the past 30 years, those who wanted closure, an alternative, an antithesis, or a commentary on EVA already got it in the form of various spin-offs, the official manga, video games, doujinshis, fanfics, light novels, and works that were made as a direct answer to EVA, like Gurren Lagann and many more. Shin didn't say anything new compared to hundreds of spin-offs and inspired works. And if it did, other works and creators have already done it better. Most people who care about EVA don't consider the Shin ending the best one. In the fandom, EOE and the Manga are competing for the number one spot. Shin was too little, too late to become more than another fanfic or a "what if" scenario.

For me it is interesting to see "what if" about the characters. I feel like I get to think about who they are and who they are not, and why I love them.

That doesn't mean anyone else has to get the same things out of it. But if you do not find the commentary illuminating, that doesn't mean it can't serve such a role to others or in general. Anyway, I just cited something you said. It serves as a foil. Even if you hate the rebuilds. it can help you articulate what you love about the original that you don't want subtracted from it and what you don't want added.

For instance, many people don't like Mari very much. Why not? In my case part of it is her persistently chipper personality and lack of angst. That helps me to appreciate why I like the troubled characters of the original. And so forth. Your mileage may vary.

Weird_ocean wrote:Will it be a lot of Asuka's ass again?

nerv bae wrote:

Weird_ocean#945728 wrote:Will it be a lot of Asuka's ass again?

apparently this is not too unlikely now, haha. if machine translation is to be believed here, Asuka seems to be confirmed as the main character of the short.
they also released what i assume to be an illustration from the new short?

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— twitter-user (@username) date

blue wrote:Asuka seems to be confirmed as the main character of the short.

We are blessed.

Is there anything we can tell about what the short will likely focus on based on that illustration?