I still think Misato is the leading female in NGE
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- Slowpokeking
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I still think Misato is the leading female in NGE
Rewatching it has reassured my view. She has the most screentime from EP1-26, and a lot of her own plot/relationship with different ppl. She died in the middle of EoE but still had such a great finale and kept her influence on Shinji.
She also got probably the most character development(on par with Asuka if we count EOE). Her interaction with Shinji was massive as well.
She also got probably the most character development(on par with Asuka if we count EOE). Her interaction with Shinji was massive as well.
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Re: I still think Misato is the leading female in NGE
I agree. I would say that it's a trio (Shinji-Asuka-Misato). The stories of these characters are the three "cases" explored in episode 25, as the show puts it. Rei is also very important, but she is not as prolific.
I would argue that Misato and Asuka change sits in the deuteragonist chair along the story, though. In EOE, in particular, I consider Asuka the co-protagonist pretty much.
I would argue that Misato and Asuka change sits in the deuteragonist chair along the story, though. In EOE, in particular, I consider Asuka the co-protagonist pretty much.
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- Slowpokeking
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Re: I still think Misato is the leading female in NGE
Yeah, Rei was a very good character with growth, but because she is not real human so she couldn't get that much lines/relationship and development.
Also switching from 2nd to 3rd Rei kinda affected the character since I think they are not entirely the same.
Ritsuko also got a lot of screentime/development but she didn't have much related to the main plot or Shiji.
it's sad to see her change from a nice girl who would say hi to 1st Rei to such a twisted figure
the new movies tried to let her turn good but her character and friendship with Misato was just dull
Shiji Raising Project was 10 times better on that
Also switching from 2nd to 3rd Rei kinda affected the character since I think they are not entirely the same.
Ritsuko also got a lot of screentime/development but she didn't have much related to the main plot or Shiji.
it's sad to see her change from a nice girl who would say hi to 1st Rei to such a twisted figure
the new movies tried to let her turn good but her character and friendship with Misato was just dull
Shiji Raising Project was 10 times better on that
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Re: I still think Misato is the leading female in NGE
Let's go to the horse's mouth for this one - "What were we trying to make here?" Hideaki Anno's statement.
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Re: I still think Misato is the leading female in NGE
I recall something from Tsurumaki referring to Misato as that too. Overall, Asuka has the least direct impact on the actual plot. She doesn't become a goddess like Rei, nor does she impact Nerv as an organization that much. She is left for dead by Gendo more than once.
What I think is interesting from the interview Tines posted is that it's quite early. I have always had an impression that Asuka grew to outsize her initial role intended in the Proposal stage. Even her Proposal self sacrifices herself for Shinji in what would be Ep 19 (this was of course later modified into Rei doing so in ep 23). But whereas Rei already had her larger Angelic role already hinted at there, Asuka isn't mentioned anymore. While I of course don't think they'd ever just do away with her, it kinda feels like Asuka would play the role of the love interest that is there in an ancillary role for the main character and whose sacrifice would motivate him to action (this also is modified into her EoE fight barely motivating Shinji, even if seeing her death does traumatize him). It feels a lot like a more conventional shounen at that point, which is incidentally also something Satsukawa called him out on in other instances: "I told him this kind of anime-like development must be spat out". It seems he has been undercredited for his role in refining the characters, since he did much of the character work.
Particularly in this interview, it seems that Anno grew to like Asuka too much as the story developed.
What I think is interesting from the interview Tines posted is that it's quite early. I have always had an impression that Asuka grew to outsize her initial role intended in the Proposal stage. Even her Proposal self sacrifices herself for Shinji in what would be Ep 19 (this was of course later modified into Rei doing so in ep 23). But whereas Rei already had her larger Angelic role already hinted at there, Asuka isn't mentioned anymore. While I of course don't think they'd ever just do away with her, it kinda feels like Asuka would play the role of the love interest that is there in an ancillary role for the main character and whose sacrifice would motivate him to action (this also is modified into her EoE fight barely motivating Shinji, even if seeing her death does traumatize him). It feels a lot like a more conventional shounen at that point, which is incidentally also something Satsukawa called him out on in other instances: "I told him this kind of anime-like development must be spat out". It seems he has been undercredited for his role in refining the characters, since he did much of the character work.
Particularly in this interview, it seems that Anno grew to like Asuka too much as the story developed.
Anno: Asuka is a good character. I had no intention to become so attached to her. (In creating a character) feedback from the performer is quite important, so it might be because of Miyamura Asuka ended up like that.
- Slowpokeking
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Re: I still think Misato is the leading female in NGE
Yeah, obviously Asuka and Mari became the main focus in the last 2 of the rebuild movies, and Misato was abandoned.
- BernardoCairo
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Re: I still think Misato is the leading female in NGE
To be honest, I think the shift in focus started earlier. I would argue that Misato is the co-protagonist of NGE, while Asuka is the co-protagonist of EOE. While EOE is part of the overall NGE storyline, I see it as its own thing in terms of tone. You can clearly see that the writers and designers had new ideas and put them into the movie. These ideas later inspired the DC episodes and NTE as well. And in this story, I see Asuka as more relevant (for the development of Shinji's character and the themes themselves).
But if you go back to just the series, I think Misato has a bigger impact, especially in the first half of the story. Asuka gains a good momentum around the middle of the narrative, but those first few episodes count a lot. They give Misato another dimension.
Asuka was having her own side story while the main event was going on and they put a lot of effort into that. I think that's why her character won over so many people. I just think it's cool how in the end they manage to converge all of this in episode 25.
But if you go back to just the series, I think Misato has a bigger impact, especially in the first half of the story. Asuka gains a good momentum around the middle of the narrative, but those first few episodes count a lot. They give Misato another dimension.
Asuka was having her own side story while the main event was going on and they put a lot of effort into that. I think that's why her character won over so many people. I just think it's cool how in the end they manage to converge all of this in episode 25.
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- Slowpokeking
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Re: I still think Misato is the leading female in NGE
Yeah EOE Asuka got the most part, but Misato still played a big role, if we count NGE+EOE Misato is no doubt the leading one.
I still think Misato's story is the best.
I still think Misato's story is the best.
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Re: I still think Misato is the leading female in NGE
Slowpokeking wrote:Yeah EOE Asuka got the most part, but Misato still played a big role, if we count NGE+EOE Misato is no doubt the leading one.
Yeah. But maybe it's best to look at things episode by episode in the end. Especially if you consider EOE its own thing.
Slowpokeking wrote:I still think Misato's story is the best.
I think the three main characters all have great stories (Shinji, Misato and Asuka). I think Rei is the only one they could have done more with. Particularly between episodes 6-22/23 (I still really like her poem in episode 14). And they did. I really like the direction they took with Rei VI in the movies. She is the best character in Shin maybe.
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Re: I still think Misato is the leading female in NGE
I agree, although I'd add that I enjoy her arc overall. That she resists Gendo in the end and embraces a world-ending autonomy feels like the natural outcome, not least of which because it capstones her relationship (and replacement loyalty) to Shinji. Rebuild takes an opposite route in that her trajectory is less and less autonomy, to a deliberate and extreme degree, and I can't say I favor it.
But again, I agree--though the shape of the arc is really great to me, it needed more connective tissue. I don't exactly buy or follow her reasoning given what we're shown on-screen. You could say she's meant to be an inscrutable and mysterious character, but I can't help but feel there were other methods. The fact that her poem pulls a grand majority of the narrative weight is really bizarre.
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- Slowpokeking
- Sachiel
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Re: I still think Misato is the leading female in NGE
It would be better to let 2nd Rei live and continue her story.
3rd Rei felt a bit disconnected.
3rd Rei felt a bit disconnected.
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Re: I still think Misato is the leading female in NGE
Axx°N N. wrote:I agree, although I'd add that I enjoy her arc overall.
I like it a lot too. People often complain that her conclusion is all about rejecting Gendo and doing what Shinji wants. As if she was prioritizing Shinji over herself somehow. But I disagree. I think her arc doesn't end when she rejects Gendo, but when Shinji makes her realize that they can live apart (the handshake scene). I really liked this ending, but the bulk of the arc could have been better handled.
I feel that in NTE she lost some of the nuances that made her special, but she gained more time to shine and develop properly. I'm talking about Rei VI, by the way. I don't really like how Rei II's story just "ends"... Although I understand the reasoning behind it.
Slowpokeking wrote:3rd Rei felt a bit disconnected.
I would argue Rei III is a continuation of Rei II. They are not 100% the same people, but they occupy the same role in the story.
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- asakuraikun
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Re: I still think Misato is the leading female in NGE
I completely agree that Misato is the leading female character in the show. I think it is by some considerable margin.
She's not just very interesting as a character, but she is directly (in contact with Shinji-Asuka) and indirectly (many important character developments happen in her house or under her tutelage/orders in battle) important for most characters of the show. Not to mention her relationship to Kaji and her experience in 2nd Impact. So I think that she's more crucial for the development of all of characters, main or not, much more than any other character could have been in the show overall (NGE + EoE).
Asuka's arc is obviously very important, but I think it moves her own story rather than everyone's else, even though it doesn't happen in isolation of any kind, due to her connections to everyone else through NERV/Shinji.
About Rei, I like the character and I think it is what it had to be. I think the Rei many people wanted to see is in Sadamoto's manga, more warm and... human, somewhat (and I like it). I agree that she's likely one of the best things in Shin Eva, although I think it is so much about Shinji that everyone's get somehow a bit distanced.
She's not just very interesting as a character, but she is directly (in contact with Shinji-Asuka) and indirectly (many important character developments happen in her house or under her tutelage/orders in battle) important for most characters of the show. Not to mention her relationship to Kaji and her experience in 2nd Impact. So I think that she's more crucial for the development of all of characters, main or not, much more than any other character could have been in the show overall (NGE + EoE).
Asuka's arc is obviously very important, but I think it moves her own story rather than everyone's else, even though it doesn't happen in isolation of any kind, due to her connections to everyone else through NERV/Shinji.
About Rei, I like the character and I think it is what it had to be. I think the Rei many people wanted to see is in Sadamoto's manga, more warm and... human, somewhat (and I like it). I agree that she's likely one of the best things in Shin Eva, although I think it is so much about Shinji that everyone's get somehow a bit distanced.
- Slowpokeking
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Re: I still think Misato is the leading female in NGE
asakuraikun wrote:I completely agree that Misato is the leading female character in the show. I think it is by some considerable margin.
She's not just very interesting as a character, but she is directly (in contact with Shinji-Asuka) and indirectly (many important character developments happen in her house or under her tutelage/orders in battle) important for most characters of the show. Not to mention her relationship to Kaji and her experience in 2nd Impact. So I think that she's more crucial for the development of all of characters, main or not, much more than any other character could have been in the show overall (NGE + EoE).
Asuka's arc is obviously very important, but I think it moves her own story rather than everyone's else, even though it doesn't happen in isolation of any kind, due to her connections to everyone else through NERV/Shinji.
About Rei, I like the character and I think it is what it had to be. I think the Rei many people wanted to see is in Sadamoto's manga, more warm and... human, somewhat (and I like it). I agree that she's likely one of the best things in Shin Eva, although I think it is so much about Shinji that everyone's get somehow a bit distanced.
Totally, she is related to many characters and affected their changes.
Re: I still think Misato is the leading female in NGE
Mr. Tines wrote:Let's go to the horse's mouth for this one - "What were we trying to make here?" Hideaki Anno's statement.
You definitely see the throughline, Misato is the "second character" of NGE in that sense, she never falls away from that role either.
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