Would a direct sequel to End of Evangelion be better than the Rebuilds?

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Would a direct sequel to End of Evangelion be better than the Rebuilds?

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Postby Asunji_Yuko » Tue May 16, 2023 11:37 am

It's tough because while you don't want to rehash the original story, you also have to stick to the NGE formula so as not to upset fans.

My pitch is this:
1. Asuka and Shinji stake a living in the post-3rd impact wastelands. There's conflict between them but also more acceptance. I think "Ghosts of Evangelion" gives a good outline of what this relationship may look like.

2. Kyoko Zeppelin-Sohryu also chooses to return from Instrumentality....but rather than her human body, she returns in EVA-02's body, which lacks most of the mechanical components controlling her. We see flashbacks of Kyoko and how she met Mr. Langley, how she interacted with Asuka pre-contact experiment, and how she knew the other MCs if at all. When she reunites with Asuka, we see the EVA 02 do the same things Kyoko did with Asuka when she was young, and look at Shinji suspiciously, because, yknow, mom instincts. EVA 02 becomes her own character rather than a mech.

3. The First Ancestral Race comes to Earth to "reclaim" the tang that most of life has turned into. While many MCs are returning from the goo, this is a big threat.

I dunno. If this is not the right forum then I apologize.

3.

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Re: Would a direct sequel to End of Evangelion be better than the Rebuilds?

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Postby MsenjaKagami » Tue May 16, 2023 1:03 pm

A direct sequel to EoE wouldn't accomplish the same thing Rebuild was trying to accomplish (and I mean what it was really trying to accomplish, not just being a sequel to the original series), so definitionally such a comparison wouldn't make sense (IMO anyways).

It's also my opinion that EoE functions as a perfectly fine conclusion to NGE and doesn't need a sequel, and continuing past that would actively weaken the story trying to be told(and this is coming from someone who a.) likes Rebuild, so I'm not just saying that, and b.) considers themselves extremely attached to these characters). That said, given how many fan renditions of a post-EoE story there are (and how many of them get claimed to be "better than the original"), who am I to say that such a story is impossible or wouldn't at least end up being liked by the people who didn't like Rebuild.
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Re: Would a direct sequel to End of Evangelion be better than the Rebuilds?

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Postby Blockio » Tue May 16, 2023 1:31 pm

Yeah, continuing from EoE would definitely make the wholke story weaker; one of the many reasons why the notion that NTE is a sequel is nonsense, but that's neither here nor there.

So no, the movies would not have been better if a direct sequel was made in their place, because they were never intended to be one in the first place
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Re: Would a direct sequel to End of Evangelion be better than the Rebuilds?

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Postby MoonRabbitMallow » Tue May 16, 2023 3:19 pm

I dont feel like a sequel to EoE would be very interesting, especially considering that the whole world was essentially tanged leaving behind only Asuka and Shinji (its possible that there are others, but the world is so far gone that I don't know how rebuilding the world would go).

EoE is a conclusion in itself, it was structured that way, so I don't see how a sequel would work narratively speaking. I also feel like a sequel would thematically not work. EoE explored Eva's themes pretty well in depth, a sequel would probably either recap the same points or just be incredibly depressing in a post-Third Impact world. Not to say its impossible to make, I just feel like, what would sequel to EoE even look like? There's no more Angels, no more Evas, etc. I'm not sure how it would work. I think Rebuild is the best we can get- whether or not Rebuild is good or not comes down to how people personally feel about it.

Edit: grammar
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Re: Would a direct sequel to End of Evangelion be better than the Rebuilds?

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Postby Asunji_Yuko » Tue May 16, 2023 4:13 pm

View Original PostMoonRabbitMallow wrote:I dont feel like a sequel to EoE would be very interesting, especially considering that the whole world was essentially tanged leaving behind only Asuka and Shinji (its possible that there are others, but the world is so far gone that I don't know how rebuilding the world would go).

EoE is a conclusion in itself, it was structured that way, so I don't see how a sequel would work narratively speaking. I also feel like a sequel would thematically not work. EoE explored Eva's themes pretty well in depth, a sequel would probably either recap the same points or just be incredibly depressing in a post-Third Impact world. Not to say its impossible to make, I just feel like, what would sequel to EoE even look like? There's no more Angels, no more Evas, etc. I'm not sure how it would work. I think Rebuild is the best we can get- whether or not Rebuild is good or not comes down to how people personally feel about it.

Edit: grammar

The Rebuilds were a Rehash of the original, only far less interesting or well developed, mostly due to time limitations of the movie format. As someone who just saw the originals, I don't understand why people like the Rebuilds.
And as for the EVAs, did you read my proposal? I see no reason why an EVA can't will itself back like any other life form can.

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Re: Would a direct sequel to End of Evangelion be better than the Rebuilds?

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Postby Blockio » Wed May 17, 2023 4:28 am

The matter of fact is that people do like the movies, so I'd appreciate it if we got on topic of the thread; we have a containment zone for arguing about NTE's quality, and if this thread proves to be nothing more than another one about that topic, it's simply going to get merged into there
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Re: Would a direct sequel to End of Evangelion be better than the Rebuilds?

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Postby MoonRabbitMallow » Thu May 18, 2023 1:26 am

To stay on the topic of the original post- Yes, I did read your proposal, and these are cool ideas, but my comment was made from a thematic standpoint, and less as a response to your proposal / as a plot standpoint- I was more or less responding to the general question in the title of this post. Let me clarify a little bit about what I mean:

I think you came up with some interesting potential plot ideas and storylines, which is great! But I'm approaching your question from the purely thematic standpoint of "what would a sequel to EoE add to NGE's existing themes?" NGE's final episodes dissected every character within Instrumentality, while EoE showed up what happened on the outside in all its... weird, messy, screwed up glory. Over NGE, we got to explore what the Evas were, what Instrumentality was, were given hints about the mysterious Ancestral Race and Dead Sea Scrolls, mysteries regarding where the Angels came from, explored every character's deepest insecurities and traumas, etc. All of these themes were thoroughly explored in NGE and wrapped up in EoE with us getting to see the Third Impact for ourselves- ultimately concluding with Shinji rejecting Instrumentality knowing that it would cause him to feel pain again. For the most part, loose ends were tied and I personally was satisfied with EoE as a conclusion, A sequel to EoE wouldn't get to work with these same ideas, it would have to create new concepts entirely or build upon what little could be left, which is why I personally don't believe that an EoE sequel would work, there just isn't much from the original NGE left- you would have to make entirely new ideas from scratch but then the story we are looking at would be very different from NGE. And that's not a bad thing either, it just would be different, but if it's going to end up to thematically different, might as well make it a completely different side story or AU or something. But at that point, how connected is the story to NGE anymore? I hope that makes some sort of sense...? If not, then think of my opinion as like "We have cool plot ideas but EoE already concluded everyone's character arcs for the most part so I don't see what the point of a sequel is"

With that being said, your proposal has some interesting concepts, so if you think these are good ideas then don't be discouraged by my opinion. I don't think these are bad ideas by any means, you should totally feel free to expand upon them and come up with new themes and see the stories you want told in it. It's fun to do and its a creative exercise for yourself, basically a win-win. There are a lot of post-EoE stories out there that carry lots of different plots, interpretations, etc., so... basically the world is your oyster, lol. I think you're focusing more on the plotline of a post-EoE story, whereas I was thinking about general overarching themes in NGE and EoE.

Edit: I also think that EoE being a direct conclusion to NGE, and Rebuild being a reimagining of the series with its own new ideas makes the two difficult to compare. So I don't think that an EoE would be "better" than Rebuild per say, it would just be a different type of story. Rebuild isn't really a sequel but more like a remake, whereas EoE is direct continuation of NGE, so I think that Rebuild should be treated as its own thing separately. So basically, your question is comparing a propose sequel to NGE/EoE and a complete reimagining of Eva from beginning to end (Rebuild). So I think you should approach the question as less of "would a sequel to EoE be better than Rebuild" and more of a "would an EoE sequel be good to begin with?"
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Re: Would a direct sequel to End of Evangelion be better than the Rebuilds?

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Postby FriendlyTechpriest » Fri May 26, 2023 4:50 am

I don't think I'd like a continuation of EoE. Neon Genesis and End of said what they had to say, it showed us what we needed to see. To go back to it only to restart that particular universe/version feels superfluous. Rebuilds themes and messages are different from Neon Genesis, they have a different story to tell and, while not as detailed as a full series, in my opinion they succeed at telling that story and message.
Evangelion is ultimately linked to Anno's and his mind so a new Evangelion also depends on what Anno really wants to tell us.

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Re: Would a direct sequel to End of Evangelion be better than the Rebuilds?

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Postby Asunji_Yuko » Sat May 27, 2023 3:07 pm

View Original PostFriendlyTechpriest wrote:I don't think I'd like a continuation of EoE. Neon Genesis and End of said what they had to say, it showed us what we needed to see. To go back to it only to restart that particular universe/version feels superfluous. Rebuilds themes and messages are different from Neon Genesis, they have a different story to tell and, while not as detailed as a full series, in my opinion they succeed at telling that story and message.
Evangelion is ultimately linked to Anno's and his mind so a new Evangelion also depends on what Anno really wants to tell us.


I guess that's true, in terms of EVA relying on Anno's mind. Though a direct sequel wouldn't be a 'restart,' since that's what the Rebuilds were.

And I'm still not sure what Rebuild's messages/themes were nor how they were different from the original's. I've heard 'stop living in the past,' but I don't see how this differs from 'touch grass.' Past or present, it's "don't get stuck in a fantasy." So the Rebuilds told basically the same message but with lower quality writing. Partly because the original had 2 more hours to flesh out the story...

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Re: Would a direct sequel to End of Evangelion be better than the Rebuilds?

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Postby Axx°N N. » Sat May 27, 2023 4:42 pm

When I think of the media I hold dear, a consistent quality stands out: room to dream. The strength of EoE to me was always that there was this immense, speculative breathing room allowed with the way it ended. Any proposed direct continuation threatens this state. And that includes NTE. I think many of my hangups about Thrice have to do with its method of doing this (note here that I'm not saying it didn't leave narrative room) as in my opinion it offered less potential trajectories and verged on ascribing to its characters narrow prescriptions, at least relative to EoE. In my mind, the major difference between them is that EoE focused on catharsis and on deconstructing its characters, leaving them (and the audience) with a level playing field from which anything can be built. Thrice, on the other hand, sort of plots a destiny for everyone: from hereon, either Kaworu is being independent (good) or lapsing back into codependency (bad). I feel as if the ways it outlined its characters did them a kind of disservice, offering neat binaries that whittled everyone into monoliths, tying them too dependently to its terse phrase-words. Rei needs to be free from Eva, Asuka needs to be recognized for her own worth, etc. Walking away from EoE gets my mind racing but walking away from Thrice, I feel as if the characters have been transformed into meager sentences, perhaps mostly owing to its choice to show everyone's last moment to be them receiving a sort of instruction. So I don't really think it's a question of if a direct sequel would be better, and more the case that each run (or in NTE's case, ran) the risk of diminishing returns. I can't really imagine a stopping point in a theoretical direct continuation of EoE where the same room to dream can be allowed, and in my mind that's the ideal place at which any narrative should stop.
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Re: Would a direct sequel to End of Evangelion be better than the Rebuilds?

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Postby Asunji_Yuko » Sat May 27, 2023 5:12 pm

View Original PostAxx°N N. wrote:When I think of the media I hold dear, a consistent quality stands out: room to dream. The strength of EoE to me was always that there was this immense, speculative breathing room allowed with the way it ended. Any proposed direct continuation threatens this state. And that includes NTE. I think many of my hangups about Thrice have to do with its method of doing this (note here that I'm not saying it didn't leave narrative room) as in my opinion it offered less potential trajectories and verged on ascribing to its characters narrow prescriptions, at least relative to EoE. In my mind, the major difference between them is that EoE focused on catharsis and on deconstructing its characters, leaving them (and the audience) with a level playing field from which anything can be built. Thrice, on the other hand, sort of plots a destiny for everyone: from hereon, either Kaworu is being independent (good) or lapsing back into codependency (bad). I feel as if the ways it outlined its characters did them a kind of disservice, offering neat binaries that whittled everyone into monoliths, tying them too dependently to its terse phrase-words. Rei needs to be free from Eva, Asuka needs to be recognized for her own worth, etc. Walking away from EoE gets my mind racing but walking away from Thrice, I feel as if the characters have been transformed into meager sentences, perhaps mostly owing to its choice to show everyone's last moment to be them receiving a sort of instruction. So I don't really think it's a question of if a direct sequel would be better, and more the case that each run (or in NTE's case, ran) the risk of diminishing returns. I can't really imagine a stopping point in a theoretical direct continuation of EoE where the same room to dream can be allowed, and in my mind that's the ideal place at which any narrative should stop.


Would a new series rather than theatrical release be any different?

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Re: Would a direct sequel to End of Evangelion be better than the Rebuilds?

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Postby Axx°N N. » Sun May 28, 2023 3:35 pm

View Original PostAsunji_Yuko wrote:Would a new series rather than theatrical release be any different?

In that it would still be revoking EoE's ending as being the final word, no.

In that I think NTE would benefit from having been a series instead, yes. The movie format only makes sense when you think back to its original intention, which was to streamline an already-established narrative. The minute it morphed in scope and intent was the moment its format became a restrictive force disconnected from why the format was chosen in the first place.
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Re: Would a direct sequel to End of Evangelion be better than the Rebuilds?

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Postby powermaiden02 » Sat Jul 01, 2023 8:08 am

honestly I cant even picture a sequel. i feel like it most definitely ended where should've. anything else and it would just defeat the purpose I feel.

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Re: Would a direct sequel to End of Evangelion be better than the Rebuilds?

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Postby Asunji_Yuko » Tue Jul 04, 2023 10:07 am

View Original Postpowermaiden02 wrote:honestly I cant even picture a sequel. i feel like it most definitely ended where should've. anything else and it would just defeat the purpose I feel.

It certainly felt like a proper ending to me.
If there were to be a sequel it would need to be radically different. No NERV, everyone except Shinji, Asuka, and a couple others stay dead, characters from the prior show are actually grown up, introduction of a powerful new villain, perhaps even a human alliance with the angels. Exploration of new psychological themes.

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Re: Would a direct sequel to End of Evangelion be better than the Rebuilds?

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Postby nerv bae » Tue Jul 04, 2023 1:51 pm

View Original PostAsunji_Yuko wrote:And as for the EVAs, did you read my proposal? I see no reason why an EVA can't will itself back like any other life form can.

I'm guessing this has been done to death in fanfiction, but: can non-humans will themselves back from the tang? If so then why isn't the shore teeming with other willed-back life alongside Shinji and Asuka?

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Postby Asunji_Yuko » Thu Jul 13, 2023 8:41 am

View Original Postnerv bae wrote:
View Original PostAsunji_Yuko#940653 wrote:And as for the EVAs, did you read my proposal? I see no reason why an EVA can't will itself back like any other life form can.

I'm guessing this has been done to death in fanfiction, but: can non-humans will themselves back from the tang? If so then why isn't the shore teeming with other willed-back life alongside Shinji and Asuka?


From my understanding, Yui talks to Shinji while in Instrumentality, and then reconstitutes herself as EVA-01 with the flaming hair, floating through space as a monument to mankind's existence. Given this, I'd say it's plausible for any human soul to return from Instrumentality in her Evangelion form, just like Yui did.

As far as fanfiction goes, I've never heard of any where the mothers reconstitute themselves as Evas. I've read where they've done so as ordinary humans.

Essentially, my proposal would be for them to reconstitute as fully aware and in control, and their kids (or grandkids) piloting them would "enhance" their power and bond them, similar to how the Na'vi in James Cameron's Avatar link with animals using their neural connectors. Their power would be unrestrained, with the caveat being that such power is needed to fight the new antagonist.

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Re: Would a direct sequel to End of Evangelion be better than the Rebuilds?

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Postby TehDonutKing » Sat Aug 05, 2023 8:41 pm

The only way i could see a sequel to EoE actually working is if it took place centuries afterward, and focused on a rebuilt human society. Even then, i'm not sure where a story like that would even go without just expanding on some of the NGE2 lore outside of the Classified Information, and even that seems like it would strip those lore elements of anything that made them interesting, in a fashion similar to the Star Wars sequels.
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Re: Would a direct sequel to End of Evangelion be better than the Rebuilds?

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Postby Duong » Fri Aug 11, 2023 5:30 am

I wonder if the sequel of EoE can invoke the "Anno's Revenge" Rumor.
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Postby Astaroth » Fri Aug 11, 2023 9:23 am

View Original PostTehDonutKing wrote:The only way i could see a sequel to EoE actually working is if it took place centuries afterward, and focused on a rebuilt human society. Even then, i'm not sure where a story like that would even go without just expanding on some of the NGE2 lore outside of the Classified Information, and even that seems like it would strip those lore elements of anything that made them interesting, in a fashion similar to the Star Wars sequels.


That's what i was thinking as well. EoE definitely concludes the story. But classic Gainax shows, as someone else said, most often have the "Room to Dream" as their underlying theme, which can be applied to a sequel in a lot of ways and work, and the original show can be left intact by simply placing the sequel in the future.

My own pitch would be something like:
1) 100+ years after EoE
2) Earth is now barely habitable and ruled by a post-UN semi-religious organization called something like "limbo" or "purgatory", but with a SEELE-like symbol.
3) Humanity sends "mecha" (actually EVAs) in space, because it turns out space and even habitable planets are typically populated by angels (now called demons) and space is thus referred to as "hell" and divided in "circles". The task of the EVA fleets is to defend Earth (as angels are attracted by the SS2 engines running on Earth to keep it habitable through massive geoengineering and those inside the EVAs) and find Eden, a perfect habitable planet and "promised land" (it later turns out to be the origin "planet" of FAR, with god-like technology.) Luckily the mecha (EVAs with limited SS2 engines) can "warp" across space instantaneously.
3) EVAs are secretly grown from removed embryos that randomly(?) appear in Earth children, called "fetus in fetu", and the children become their pilots using an "umbilical link" that looks exactly like the original EVA's energy connector, but this time it connects to the children inside the cockpits. Refusal is unacceptable, as Earth is dying and using SS2 engines attracts the "demons" to Earth, so finding Eden is too important and a pressing issue. Humanity is "besieged" again and trapped in a cage.
4) The MC is a young teen who seems to receive an EVA embryo from a mysterious ayanami-looking girl in the opening flashback scene of the show, but forgets about it. He dreams of being a mecha pilot like his late mom, who's MIA in space, and find Eden. When the EVA embryo reveals itself, it's later than normal for MCs age, so he gets brought into the mecha organization (which has an altered NERV symbol and a different name) and has to fit in with young mecha pilots who were together since they were infants, and their instructors (the leader of which is an ex-pilot who lost his/her mecha/eva and hates them). (You can even have some cameos, like someone from NGE being brought back from cryostasis, or Ritsuko as an AI in digital form, albeit that's poor form.)
5) When the MC's mecha(EVA) is built (grown from the embryo), it turns out to behave autonomously at random moments during training/battle, unlike those of the other kids. Everyone thinks it's because the MC is a "late bloomer" and a poor pilot with a low synchro rate, but the "secret" is that his EVA possesses an entirely different "DNA" from his own, unlike those of other children, and not-NERV wants to find out what's that about. Obligatorily, they refer to is as a "demon", and later in the show as an "Adam" prophesized to unlock Eden....

...and so on and so forth. It just writes itself, and a lot of crazy things can be found in space, featuring:

-human-like angels living in harmony/stagnation on some planet, but having a reaction to Earth culture similar to the Zentradi from Macross, which throws their society into peaceful mass suicide, since to them humans are the demons and their race is equally troubled by existential dread already due to having unusually high intelligence for their kind
-actual other humans seeded by the FAR just like earthlings, who likewise have a vaguely abrahamic-sounding religion, but who live at a lower level of technology than Earth and see human mechas(EVAs) as messengers of the gods and "angels"... it could even be the civilization seen in Honneamise
-alternatively to the above, another race of humans seeded by FAR who instead of piloting EVAs pilot ACTUAL mecha (like advanced Jet Alones) and start a war with humans over it, but it turns out their own planet is even worse off than Earth, and they eventually become allies and/or try to study/use EVAs and SS2 engines themselves and get obliterated in the process by rampaging angels
-members of FAR or FAR-like beings refusing contact with humans and demonstrating god-like powers and incomprehensible agendas, shaping-reshaping their star systems indefinitely in ways humans cannot possibly understand or interfere with and seem aimless, who temporarily(?) turn some approaching EVAs into humans, creating dramatic moments as they have human interactions with their pilot "siblings"... and mc's eva turns into that ayanami-like entity he met in the beginning...

There are just countless ideas in the Evangelion concept that it's a crying shame it's not explored more creatively. The crime of the Rebuilds to me was warping/changing/breaking/repeating a lot of the original ideas, instead of building on them (perhaps ironically, given the name!)
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Re: Would a direct sequel to End of Evangelion be better than the Rebuilds?

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Postby BernardoCairo » Sun Aug 13, 2023 12:54 pm

The End of Evangelion is, well, THE END of Evangelion. There's no need for a direct sequel any any attempts would result in the original movie loosing some of its meaning.
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