Red rings notes:

1) They are above the clouds in both pictures, so are fairly high-altitude.
2) They have a large radius of curvature, so Asuka and Midori(?) are fairly far from the impact epicenter.

nerv bae wrote:1) They are above the clouds in both pictures, so are fairly high-altitude.

I wonder whether these red rings could be caused by Eva-01. I mean, Eva-01 was send to the space (and the Spear of Cassius was removed from it) at some point.

This could explain why the moon has red marks in 3.0

If you compare the shot of the N3I rings from orbit before Kaworu throws Cassius down and compare it to a map of the wider Hakone region, the rings have a diameter of something like 10-15 kilometres, with the cruciform cracks across the surface extending much further.

2Lacissal2 wrote:If you compare the shot of the N3I rings from orbit before Kaworu throws Cassius down and compare it to a map of the wider Hakone region, the rings have a diameter of something like 10-15 kilometres, with the cruciform cracks across the surface extending much further.

That's a helpful point of reference!

nerv bae wrote:Red rings notes:

1) They are above the clouds in both pictures, so are fairly high-altitude.
2) They have a large radius of curvature, so Asuka and Midori(?) are fairly far from the impact epicenter.

The view angle in the Midori? shot is about 45 degrees? So it's not really looking at the rings right overhead, but a segment of the rings that is about as far along the ground as it is far above the ground... does it make sense? So she could still be pretty near the epicenter.

---

There's something that doesn't quite add up regarding Midori... Did we ever get her age (as of Q) stated anywhere in official materials (e.g. character data sheets)?

She speaks pretty much like stereotypical "gyaru"; this means at the moment of Q she could be anywhere between 16 and 20-is? (anything above that and it becomes to be a bit cringe, but I might be wrong; even though I've lived in Japan uninterrupted since '97, I've had zero contact with actual gyaru, i.e. outside of the media depiction).

The lower end of that estimate would put her at 2 years old at the moment of N3I; too young to remember her lost family and be attached enough to them to hold a real grudge against Shinji (on those grounds alone... he's still "responsible" for the post-apocaliptic world she has to live in day to day).

In any case, those rings being Third-impact related (whether N3I or A3I) seems impossible if the girldepicted is Midori.

So what are the rings?
It can't be N3I: the frame shows them in brad daylight (N3I happens late in the afternoon, and it's night time when the rings finally dissipate and Kaworu descends).
It can't be A3I: if the girls is Midori, the age doesn't match. If it's her mother, she should already be gone.

Also, count me in with the riot over Gendo/Fuyu/Donkiel

DantesInferno wrote:So what are the rings?
It can't be N3I: the frame shows them in brad daylight (N3I happens late in the afternoon, and it's night time when the rings finally dissipate and Kaworu descends).
It can't be A3I: if the girls is Midori, the age doesn't match. If it's her mother, she should already be gone.

I've the theory these rings could happen when Eva-01 was sent to the space and the Spear of Cassius was removed from it. The rings seems to be pretty high.

Also, it has never been explained to us why they sent Eva-01 into space and how Spear of Cassius was removed.

DantesInferno wrote:Also, count me in with the riot over Gendo/Fuyu/Donkiel

Personally, even if this short film will be longer than we hope (like 40 minutes or more), I don't think that we'll have the entire story planned when the 2.0 NTP was supposed to be Q: looking at the images, my guess is that it'll be centered on the birth of WILLE, so we might see the rebellion (when they first donned the blue armbands) the fight against the Mark.06/Lilith amalgam, and maybe the stealing of the Wunder, but I doubt that we'll get the more "obscure" details shown in the 2.0 NTP, like Gendo and Fuyutsuki's exile, Kaji and Kaworu's shenanigans, the multiple Reis or the interrogation of Mari.

Konja7 wrote:I've the theory these rings could happen when Eva-01 was sent to the space and the Spear of Cassius was removed from it. The rings seems to be pretty high.

I saw your earlier post; that's a possibility. But for it to be Midori, the launch still needs to happen not too long before Q, as opposed to shortly after N3I or A3I as most of us? believed until now...


I think I know the why: Eva-01, having obtained the Fruit of Life, became a God-like entity besides Mark.06 and therefore an obstacle to Seele's plans.

I believe it must have become pretty much indestructible (kind of like Eva-13 —side note: do we ever see Eva-01's AT-field after 2.0?), so the next best thing they could do is cut off its limbs —either during the failed attempts at destroying it or as a means of disabling it somwehow— and send it off as far as possible.

Maybe Seele intended for it to break free of Earth's gravitational well and be lost forever in deep space, and (either by sheer luck, Yui's intervention, or Wille's sabbotage) it became stuck in Earth orbit, within retrieval range.

This would in some way explain the whole "God slaying" that Seele had "given up on" as per Q dialogue, as well as Gendo's own "God slaying" (as per TUAT dialogue), i.e. recovering Yui from Eva-01 (thus removing the Fruit of Knowledge from the unit, and "un-deifying" it), and/or sacrificing the unit altogether during Additional Impact ("bid mom farewell", as per Shinki in TUAT). Work in progress theory though...

ElMariachi wrote:Personally, even if this short film will be longer than we hope (like 40 minutes or more), I don't think that we'll have the entire story planned when the 2.0 NTP was supposed to be Q: looking at the images, my guess is that it'll be centered on the birth of WILLE, so we might see the rebellion (when they first donned the blue armbands) the fight against the Mark.06/Lilith amalgam, and maybe the stealing of the Wunder, but I doubt that we'll get the more "obscure" details shown in the 2.0 NTP, like Gendo and Fuyutsuki's exile, Kaji and Kaworu's shenanigans, the multiple Reis or the interrogation of Mari.

No, of course not.

I do look forward though to whatever new music comes along with it. At this point, I'm as much a fan of Saegisu as I am of Anno (if not more).

It's pretty clear that Wille finding Shinji and preparing for Operation US two days before it is the frame story, and how they feel about that and flashbacks to at least Third Impact are the meat of the thing. Thing is,that could be less than 10 minutes and these scenes are narrated over with quick cuts, or it could be full sequences that approach 30 mins +/- 10. I always approached this thing expecting a glorified music video (with no new dialogue even), but seeing that an actual script was written (photo in a tweet, called "Bonus Video 1" which is ominous) obviously means there's a bit more to it than that.

Mainly nervous since it means all of my 2.5 speculation is in flux.

DantesInferno wrote:I think I know the why: Eva-01, having obtained the Fruit of Life, became a God-like entity besides Mark.06 and therefore an obstacle to Seele's plans.

I believe it must have become pretty much indestructible (kind of like Eva-13 —side note: do we ever see Eva-01's AT-field after 2.0?), so the next best thing they could do is cut off its limbs —either during the failed attempts at destroying it or as a means of disabling it somwehow— and send it off as far as possible.

Maybe Seele intended for it to break free of Earth's gravitational well and be lost forever in deep space, and (either by sheer luck, Yui's intervention, or Wille's sabbotage) it became stuck in Earth orbit, within retrieval range.

This would in some way explain the whole "God slaying" that Seele had "given up on" as per Q dialogue, as well as Gendo's own "God slaying" (as per TUAT dialogue), i.e. recovering Yui from Eva-01 (thus removing the Fruit of Knowledge from the unit, and "un-deifying" it), and/or sacrificing the unit altogether during Additional Impact ("bid mom farewell", as per Shinki in TUAT). Work in progress theory though...

The way I see it, is that initially EVA-01 was supposed to be instrument of Instrumentality by SEELE and Gendo (like in NGE) and as such must be awakened when the time is right, then in 2.0, SEELE switches to Mark.06 as their instrument for Instrumentality (whether it's because they just found it, because they already suspected that Gendo wasn't loyal to their scenario and the fact that Yui was inside its core was a liability, or a combination of all three is not clear).

That's why Gendo was so hellbent on having Unit 01 being awakened before Mark.06's completion and dispatch to NERV, because he needed it awakened for the final phase of his plan to use it for his version of Instrumentality and be reunited with Yui again, and once Mark.06 and Kaworu were here, the later would keep an eye on him on behalf of SEELE, if not completely replace him.

Gendo does manages to have Unit 01 by the skin of his teeth (in part thanks to having partially "prepared the ground" to have Shinji and Rei get closer, and in big part out of sheer dumb luck), but that still doesn't completely subverts SEELE's plans, as there are still two more Angels that can be used to awake Mark.06, but they still need to do something about EVA-01: the fact that Gendo kept EVA-13 impaled after its awakening makes me think that an awakened Eva might gain some autonomy, and thus become dangerous if they decide to fuck up your day, but since SEELE probably still needed the spear impaled it, they decided that the best thing would to get rid of 01 was to chop off its limbs and send it to fuck off in space, so that neither the Eva nor Gendo could try anything with it. But since they are prudent and pragmatic people, they still kept it in orbit in case something happens with Mark.06 and they need another awakened Eva.

Personally, the way Gendo says at the end of 2.0 that "soon their plan will come to fruition", the in 3.0 SEELE having abandoned their goal to "slay god" as well as the weird magitech barrier around Lilith's Chamber makes me thing that everyone's plans has gone completely off the rails around the time of A3I, and everyone is winging it with what they have left, including Gendo: I highly doubt that he planned all along to use the "prime Adam" and keep the Ninth Angel stored inside Asuka when he wasn't even aware of Mark.06's existence and his orders toward Shinji when fighting Unit 03 was to destroy it all, Angel and pilot included.

DantesInferno wrote:In any case, those rings being Third-impact related (whether N3I or A3I) seems impossible if the girldepicted is Midori.

So what are the rings?
It can't be N3I: the frame shows them in brad daylight (N3I happens late in the afternoon, and it's night time when the rings finally dissipate and Kaworu descends).

Agreed, plus it also can't be N3I because Asuka is present under the rings. During N3I she should still be recuperating from the 9th Angel attack. Of course, there is a chance that it is N3I because that's original Asuka, not 'our' Asuka, but this seems contraindicated by her blindfold.

DantesInferno wrote:It can't be A3I: if the girls is Midori, the age doesn't match. If it's her mother, she should already be gone.

There is a chance it can be A3I if Midori's dialogue about her parents in TUAT is false (through misunderstanding, lying, etc.). In other words, although in TUAT Midori says her parents died in N3I, this might not be true. Seems unlikely, but still worth stating.

ElMariachi wrote:The way I see it, is that initially EVA-01 was supposed to be instrument of Instrumentality by SEELE and Gendo (like in NGE) and as such must be awakened when the time is right, then in 2.0, SEELE switches to Mark.06 as their instrument for Instrumentality (whether it's because they just found it, because they already suspected that Gendo wasn't loyal to their scenario and the fact that Yui was inside its core was a liability, or a combination of all three is not clear).

I agree with that, leaning strongly towards the Yui factor.

ElMariachi wrote:That's why Gendo was so hellbent on having Unit 01 being awakened before Mark.06's completion and dispatch to NERV, because he needed it awakened for the final phase of his plan to use it for his version of Instrumentality and be reunited with Yui again, and once Mark.06 and Kaworu were here, the later would keep an eye on him on behalf of SEELE, if not completely replace him.

100% agreed.

ElMariachi wrote:Gendo does manages to have Unit 01 by the skin of his teeth (in part thanks to having partially "prepared the ground" to have Shinji and Rei get closer, and in big part out of sheer dumb luck), but that still doesn't completely subverts SEELE's plans, as there are still two more Angels that can be used to awake Mark.06, but they still need to do something about EVA-01: the fact that Gendo kept EVA-13 impaled after its awakening makes me think that an awakened Eva might gain some autonomy, and thus become dangerous if they decide to fuck up your day, but since SEELE probably still needed the spear impaled it, they decided that the best thing would to get rid of 01 was to chop off its limbs and send it to fuck off in space, so that neither the Eva nor Gendo could try anything with it. But since they are prudent and pragmatic people, they still kept it in orbit in case something happens with Mark.06 and they need another awakened Eva.

Makes sense. It is possible that the "giving up" on God-slaying also includes that reason (having to keep it around because it might be handy).

ElMariachi wrote:Personally, the way Gendo says at the end of 2.0 that "soon their plan will come to fruition", the in 3.0 SEELE having abandoned their goal to "slay god" as well as the weird magitech barrier around Lilith's Chamber makes me thing that everyone's plans has gone completely off the rails around the time of A3I, and everyone is winging it with what they have left, including Gendo: I highly doubt that he planned all along to use the "prime Adam" and keep the Ninth Angel stored inside Asuka when he wasn't even aware of Mark.06's existence and his orders toward Shinji when fighting Unit 03 was to destroy it all, Angel and pilot included.

Yes, that's right. I think using the 9th angel in Asuka was a fallback plan; at the end of Q, he responds to Fuyutsuki "yet we awakened Eva-13 and got rid of SEELE's boy. Katsuragi's actions were also within margin".

I think Gendo's "plan A" was to go all the way through with 4th/Another Impact more or less as we saw in 3.0+1.0 (minus whatever changes he made to the lore in the 9 years between the movies); so maybe he didn't expect to get rid of Kaworu and sees it "as a bonus", or a "silver lining" of 4th Impact being prematurely stopped.

What does feel strange is that the angels are some sort of "consummable", and you need a new one every time you want to re-awaken an Eva that has already obtained the FoL...

DantesInferno wrote:I think Gendo's "plan A" was to go all the way through with 4th/Another Impact more or less as we saw in 3.0+1.0 (minus whatever changes he made to the lore in the 9 years between the movies); so maybe he didn't expect to get rid of Kaworu and sees it "as a bonus", or a "silver lining" of 4th Impact being prematurely stopped.

I agree that Gendo's plan was always to create the Additional Impact, while he seems to need to start the Fourth Impact before that.

However, Gendo's plan really needs the Fourth Impact in 3.0 to be stopped. At that point, he doesn't have the resources for his Additional Impact (which would require other Spears). Not to mention that SEELE seem to have left a program to control Mark-09, which would surely prevent Gendo from interfering during Fourth Impact.

Gendo's goal with the Fourth Impact in 3.0 seems to have been getting rid of SEELE, awakening of Eva-13 and killing Kaworu.


PS: The pilot of Eva-13 in 3.0+1.0 being Zombie Kaworu implies that Gendo really needs Kaworu's death to have control of Eva-13.

I am curious as to whether this will be a long segment or whether it will be more of an introduction to a 2.5 type scenario. Even if it's just stills, or some scenes but not really a full film, even one scene of something larger, I will be satisfied. If this is just part 1 of a series of short films to fill in that gap, even better. To me, the more Eva content we have coming, the more there is to look forward to.

My predictions (or maybe hopes) are for it to be more around showing the actual 3I. We clearly see the EoE style crosses/tangification, and getting a scene with Asuka fighting against the Eva Series (or Rebuild's equivalent) would be incredible. On top of that, delivering an update to actual 3I and not a 4I Imaginary is something that I think everyone wants to see.

Unit 01 being stopped by Kaworu would be the first thing shown, the post N3I world will be shown (interrogations, etc.; more details about Mari), then we will get details around the plans that Kaworu and Kaji enacted, perhaps even a glimpse into how Gendoh loses his humanity in attempt to stop their plan. In addition, answers to the giant Rei head, theivery of Wunder, and other mysteries that were only hinted at in Thrice would be great.

In the end, no matter what, I'm so happy to have this coming so soon. With all of the revision, it's likely we'll see multiple releases using content thaylt couldn't fit into Thrice, or were too confusing without context, each adding a bit more to what Rebuild has become.

Konja7 wrote:I agree that Gendo's plan was always to create the Additional Impact, while he seems to need to start the Fourth Impact before that.

However, Gendo's plan really needs the Fourth Impact in 3.0 to be stopped. At that point, he doesn't have the resources for his Additional Impact (which would require other Spears). Not to mention that SEELE seem to have left a program to control Mark-09, which would surely prevent Gendo from interfering during Fourth Impact.

Gendo's goal with the Fourth Impact in 3.0 seems to have been getting rid of SEELE, awakening of Eva-13 and killing Kaworu.


PS: The pilot of Eva-13 in 3.0+1.0 being Zombie Kaworu implies that Gendo really needs Kaworu's death to have control of Eva-13.

You're right; Gendo's version of the 4th Impact (another impact) needs at least two ships (and two Adam's vessels) to create the extra spears from the Black Moon (so he can "keep" the original two for later), and all four ships at the moment of triggering.

Although all that is what we got in 3.0.+1.0, and it is very possible these are all details Anno hadn't even thought about back in 2012

The preview of "Final" with Eva-02+08 fighting a swarm of MP Evas seems to take place near Tokyo, not Antarctica (although arguably, perhaps it was just a glorified "concept" shot and not a real commitment to the actual script, whatever it might have been back then...).

I'm sure there were 4 ships and 4 Adams vessels in Anno's head back in 2012 (after all, they seem to mirror the 4 Adams from 2I in some way); but perhaps back then they hadn't been assigned the roles we ultimately saw.

Konja7 wrote:PS: The pilot of Eva-13 in 3.0+1.0 being Zombie Kaworu implies that Gendo really needs Kaworu's death to have control of Eva-13.

I'm not so sure about this one; In Q, Gendo was very capable of "sidelining" Kaworu and cut him off the Eva-13 controls even while he was still alive.

DantesInferno wrote:You're right; Gendo's version of the 4th Impact (another impact) needs at least two ships (and two Adam's vessels) to create the extra spears from the Black Moon (so he can "keep" the original two for later), and all four ships at the moment of triggering.

I've understand the Another Impact was a different Impact from the Fourth Impact. The Fourth Impact released the "purification" of souls in 3.0+1.0 (which we see attacking Village 3), while the Another Impact started with the Eva Imaginary/Black Lilith.

Not to mention that Gendo creates the Black Moon Spear (using the four Wunders) for the Fourth Impact, since he needs to preserve the Spears of Longinus and Cassius for the Another Impact.

That said, it seems Gendo really needs to create the Fourth Impact (and maybe the "purifications" of the previous Impacts) before he could get his goal with the Another Impact.

DantesInferno wrote:I'm not so sure about this one; In Q, Gendo was very capable of "sidelining" Kaworu and cut him off the Eva-13 controls even while he was still alive.

Honestly, I've never though Gendo caused that (it's never visually implied Gendo caused that). I think it was Shinji who cut Kaworu off the Eva-13 controls with his strong will to take the Spears. This was a subconscious/reflex action from Shinji, since he doesn't want to be stopped.

It wouldn't be the first time that Shinji activated abilities of an Eva with his will alone, although he doesn't have full knowledge of what he's doing.

The Evangelion website has added some specifications for the upcoming disc releases and the film's runtime is listed as 155 minutes just like the theatrical version. Any changes made to the film for the 3.0+1.11 version are likely cosmetic and this won't be an extended cut of the film.

They did not include a runtime for (-46h) so that's a mystery still to be talked about in the other thread.

https://www.evangelion.co.jp/final_bd_dvd.html

A friend has received an email from the Eva Store:

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He's wondering if the Blu-ray is going to be released sooner, but I think they just want to inform people in order to keep up with (seemingly unexpected) demand. He says the email is for people who have pre-ordered.

My reading there is that normally you get charged and then it gets shipped as close to the release date as possible, but because of the huge demand they have to get their ducks in a row so they're gonna charge a month in advance so the shipping will all happen when it's supposed to instead of everyone getting it a week late.