Axx°N N. wrote:In the end, though, the space this carved out for Q and everything that happens in it worked for Q in isolation. As a companion piece to the franchise, or even just something that makes structural sense, I can't say NTE works for me--but I really dig just taking Q as a sister piece to EoE.

I always thought it was fun to imagine 3.0 (or at least a hypothetical version of it) as a direct sequel to EoE, pretending that the beach scene never happens. Ignoring the specific details that obviously don’t match up between continuities, I think conceptually it actually works better as a sequel (or an alternate ending) to EoE than to 2.0, since in EoE Shinji is completely and unambiguously responsible for Third Impact.

nerv bae wrote:I still feel this way a year after writing the above: The 3.33 musical score is amazing.

Now that you mention music, I don't really remember any of it from thrice ... I guess it didn't make an impact on me.

Q, however, I noticed immediately that it had become an evolution of the classic NGE scores (and thus, the previous two movies) we all know.
It's still mostly classical music, but Q added something gothic (no clue of thats the right word for it) to it with the vocals, while still feeling like proper NGE music.
I've listened to this soundtrack a lot, and indeed, it slaps!

I'll try to pay more attention to the music on my next reviewing of thrice ..

Archer wrote:since in EoE Shinji is completely and unambiguously responsible for Third Impact.

Thats not how I see EoE at all, Shinji was being used, forced into that position by Seele and Yui. The only choice that Shinji made actually stopped instrumentality and allowed people to come back.
Instrumentality was what Seele/Gendo/Yui wished for, they are the ones that are completely and unambiguously responsible, imo (and besides, wasn't Seele going to try it without Shinji anyway? The troops had shoot on sight orders, Shinji could have just as easily gotten killed and it apparently still fitting Seele's plans).
NTE contrasts this because third impact was wholly Shini's own choice/desire (though he had no clue about the repercussions). Even so much that it completely messed up Seele's plans.
Even fourth impact was more Shinji's own desire (though he pretty much got tricked into that position) than EoE ever was. If all went according to Kaworu's plans, they'd probably still start a fourth impact in hopes of restoration (speculation ofcourse). So Shinji at least caused one impact due to selfish desires and planned to set off another one with Kaworu.

While trying not to go too much offtopic here, I don't agree with your last statement at all

Zoop wrote:I guess it didn't make an impact

Well, I’d argue he is responsible in EoE precisely because he knows what’s at stake and chooses to go forward with Instrumentality anyways. Basically the moment the JSDF invades NETV, Gendo’s plan has already completely collapsed around him - he’s not pulling the strings anymore, it’s not like he could have reasonably expected Misato to rescue Shinji and stick him in Unit-1.

In 2.0, Shinji might have fucked up Seele’s plan, but isn’t this exactly what Gendo wanted? I thought the whole idea was that he wanted Shinji to get closer to Rei specifically so this kind of situation would happen. Gendo is like hilariously overpowered and omnipotent in the Rebuilds, in NGE he just laid the groundwork but in 2.0 he basically put Shinji’s finger on the trigger and was still actively manipulating him up until that moment.

nerv bae wrote:I still feel this way a year after writing the above: The 3.33 musical score is amazing.

I didn't consciously realize it but yeah, Q also has my favorite score of NTE, and although I think the choreography and staging alone are what make the action scenes stand out, the music definitely takes it over the top.

Zoop wrote:Even fourth impact was more Shinji's own desire (though he pretty much got tricked into that position) than EoE ever was. If all went according to Kaworu's plans, they'd probably still start a fourth impact in hopes of restoration (speculation ofcourse). So Shinji at least caused one impact due to selfish desires and planned to set off another one with Kaworu.

In itself, it isn't totally clear whether an Impact is necessary to the restoration of the World.

Kaworu mentioned that they could use the power of the Spears of Longinus and Cassius along Eva-13 to restore the World. In 3.0+1.0, Shinji uses Eva-01 and the Spear of Gaius to restore the World, while he doesn't need to start a Sixth(?) Impact.

We could assume Shinji uses the power of Gendo's Aditional Impact to restore the World in 3.0+1.0, but this isn't really confirmed.

Coming out from retirement to wish happy 10th birthday to this fantastic movie, which sadly had to be followed up by the biggest entertainment disappointment I've experienced in my life.

The third Rebuild film is the best of the series. Incredible visuals, mind-blowing sequences, and a score that I'd say is easily some of the best work across the whole franchise (definitely the best score in the Rebuilds as a whole collection.) My personal criticism of the final film is that it is not really a sequel to the third Rebuild film at all. 3.0/Q just had so much going on, and so many little details that rewarded close reading and interpretation, that it's just awesome... and a bit of a shame given the direction the final film took. I think 3.0/Q is the most Evangelion film in spirit, too.

Gendo's Glasses wrote:My personal criticism of the final film is that it is not really a sequel to the third Rebuild film at all.

How does 3.0+1.0 contradict 3.0 so as not to feel like a sequel?

3.0+1.0 is a strong complement to 3.0. I mean, 3.0+1.0 continues the plot and events of 3.0.

Even the theme in these movies are complementary. Shinji fails in 3.0 because he mainly wants to escape pain, while he succeeds in 3.0+1.0 because he put aside his desire to escape the pain.

Konja7 wrote:

Gendo's Glasses#938010 wrote:My personal criticism of the final film is that it is not really a sequel to the third Rebuild film at all.

How does 3.0+1.0 contradict 3.0 so as not to feel like a sequel?

3.0+1.0 is a strong complement to 3.0. I mean, 3.0+1.0 continues the plot and events of 3.0.

Even the theme in these movies are complementary. Shinji fails in 3.0 because he mainly wants to escape pain, while he succeeds in 3.0+1.0 because he put aside his desire to escape the pain.

Because it’s so ridiculously metatextual that the story itself gets overshadowed. 3.0+1.0 isn’t so much the ending to the new story of the Rebuilds as it is Anno’s spiritual farewell to all of Evangelion using Shinji as a mouthpiece/author avatar. There is a lot that really just doesn’t make much sense when considered solely as the conclusion to the Rebuilds. A lot of the messaging in 3.0+1.0 is also very easy to read as at best highly questionable, and at worst actively harmful when looking at it as a standalone story, and only really makes sense when viewing the entire movie metatextually with Shinji as an explicit author avatar rather than as his own character. For the prime example of this, just check out the thread about the ending, where we try to decipher the implications of Shinji apparently running off into fantasyland with his waifu at the end of the movie.

3.0 very much expects you to throw away your preconceived notions from NGE in order to tell its own story (whether or not that’s successful is up to personal judgment), but 3.0+1.0 does a complete 180 and does nothing but call back to NGE/EoE. I don’t particularly like 3.0 as a movie, but I think it’s easily the most artistically interesting entry of the Rebuilds and actually brings something new to the table.

... shhhh, no 3+1 qualitychat, only 3.0 birthday celebration ...

This movie is gorgeous!


I'm going to watch it tonight before I see 3+1 tomorrow in IMAX.

Archer wrote:3.0 very much expects you to throw away your preconceived notions from NGE in order to tell its own story

I don't think that's true at all. It's always made sense to be as a blown up version of Episode 24.

1. Shinji is isolated from Rei, Misato, Asuka, Kensuke, and Toji.
2. He is desperate for companionship.
3. He finds Kaworu, a person who is capable of providing everything that he could ever want from another human being, and none of the drawbacks.
4. It is not meant to be.
5. Shinji loses Kaworu, destroying him psychologically and setting up the story's finale.

The specifics for #1 differ between NGE and the Rebuilds, but the result is the same. In NGE, Rei was just revealed to be a spooky clone, Misato is being cold because of Kaji's death, Asuka is in a coma, and the Two Stooges were evacuated out of the city. In the Rebuilds, Shinji was flung fourteen years into the future, and now everyone is mad at him or MIA. Regardless of the reason, he is desperately alone, and that's where Kaworu comes in.

Rebuild adds the extra wrinkle that Shinji is not only alone, but wants to undo a mistake. That's something else impossible that Kaworu offers to him. Otherwise, it's the same story. And 3.0's follow-up, 3.0 + 1.0, was an alternate take on EoE where, instead of being truly alone, Shinji has a support network to help him heal. (A great idea, that could have been executed much better.)

Not really. You're flattening a lot of nuance into a list of bullet points, to a point far beyond being useful to the conversation at hand.
"Throwing away preconcieved notions" does not mean that there are no similar plot beats, it means that the reasons things happen and the way they play out are different, and you should not assume that just because it was the reason in one, it also is the reason in the other.

BernardoCairo wrote:Funny how you mention that, as a friend of mine and I once had a conversation about how these new movies would have worked really well if the story had started with Q.
I know that setting up the whole thing with the prior two movies exponentially increased the "wow factor", but I think Q could've worked really well as an alternative scenario from what happened in episode 20. Like, a "what would've happened if Shinji was stuck in that EVA much longer" kind of deal. I know the lore is all different but they could've got around it somehow I'm sure. All the characters had already been well introduced, so they wouldn't have to waste time on that... Or maybe they could've kept it as an entirely separate thing and what happened 14 years before the events of the story could've been presented as a slowly unfolding mystery or something.
Anyway, it is what it is.

And it's funny that you said that, because I had the same idea a long time ago: to have NTE announced with some images from what would had been 1.0 as teaser, and then have the first movie be 3.0, throwing everyone through a loop wondering WTF is going on: is this actually a sequel to EoE? But then why is Unit 02 here? And Unit 01? And Kaworu! Then quickly you understand that the background of this movie is similar but still very different to classic NGE.
Then in respect to your second point, have the next two movies be original 1.0 and 2.0 (or maybe one long movie with the 1.0 part very compressed) to show us how did we got here, and we'll see with sadness all the characters behaving like we remember them from NGE, since we know that it won't last, and with anxious anticipation for the moment where everything will go to hell and lead to the events of the first movie.

Then my real dream would be that instead of a last movie, be those movies to be a prologue to a new series entirely taking place after the timeskip, to get the time to explore this world and and the cast, taking all the time it needs.

FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:How on earth is this movie 10 friggin years old?

Same question here.

Lawdy, I'm late to this conversation! I remember my original reaction being "WTH, has Evangelion finally jumped the shark?!!?" and shaking my head at all this. Took me a while to settle into it, but 3.0 became my favorite Rebuild movie, and it's still my favorite in terms of just breaking everything you've come to expect from the franchise and taking it someplace new. Forget anything to do with Game of Thrones, this is how you break audience expectations and deliver them something they didn't even know they wanted.

Granted, I'd love to see Evangelion 2.5 and find out just what happened during that darned timeskip, because I'm convinced that that part of the story is fully plotted and just sitting around somewhere, but that's a whole 'nother conversation.