Is it possible that Ireul was planted in HQ during the black out?
SEELE seemed to know about the attack, so I suspect they had something to do with making it happen.
Could an angel get into HQ alone and undetected?

I seem to recall that there was a line in the episode that it was carried in with construction material to repair previous damage

Blockio wrote:I seem to recall that there was a line in the episode that it was carried in with construction material to repair previous damage

Sounds like it may have been planted in the materials before it got into the facility. I wonder if SEELE are the ones who supply the specialist materials for NERV facilities.

Aoba made a judgement about the substandard workmanship, so maybe the person who did the repair had something to do with it.

If this were NTE then yeah, definitely. But NGE Seele doesn't really work by those rules, they actually do want to see the angels exterminated. Kaworu is a special case in that regard, but he's also the last and was artificially created, while there obviously were a significant number of natural angels still left after Ireul

There's quite a bit of dialogue about substandard construction and the deterioration of sterilized rooms. From the "air bubbles" comment and the title "Lilliputian Hitcher", I always thought that Ireul, a microbe, hitched a ride on the way into the facility.

https://wiki.evageeks.org/FGC:Episode_13_Scene_02

Seele seems to know about the Angel from the lockdown in the Nerv facility and the fact that the Nerv Section 2 (Men in Black) agents seem to be under Seele's payroll. There's a lot of treachery implied to be going on that we don't get to see.

UrsusArctos wrote:Seele seems to know about the Angel from the lockdown in the Nerv facility and the fact that the Nerv Section 2 (Men in Black) agents seem to be under Seele's payroll. There's a lot of treachery implied to be going on that we don't get to see.

I think I missed the part about the Nerv Intelligence agents being hired by Seele.

I may be overthinking something tiny, but I got the impression there was foul play afoot from the look on Aoba's face in this scene. While Fuyutsuki gave a reason for the construction being substandard, Aoba gave him a steady and prolonged "I'm not buying it" stare.

This event marks the first time Gendo betrays Seele generally, and openly in front of their faces at the meeting (all the while maintaining his obvious facade) . While Seele is shocked and even enraged, they ultimately do nothing. It demonstrates how much Seele truly relies on Gendo despite admonishing him regularly to keep him obedient (at least from their point of view). My interpretation is that Gendo would like to put Seele in a state of hasty decision making and poor judgment from this point forward so that he can create a gap in their scenerio where Unit-01 gets selected to become the tree of life instead of a reconstituted Adam Sample.

This episode also marks where the good times end in the series, and Nerve starts to unravel. Any major positive character growth and development is done, and the series will shift to focus on the gray area of the plot, the insecurities of the younger characters, and the complicated emotions and little white lies of the adult characters that lead to a series of impending tragedies.

AWinters wrote:I think I missed the part about the Nerv Intelligence agents being hired by Seele.

That's not referenced in this episode, but it is something that becomes increasingly evident beginning in Episode 21 with Fuyutsuki's kidnapping, and in Episode 24 when Section 2 very conveniently "loses" Asuka for so long.

The line about the construction being sloppy was Aoba's, not Fuyutsuki's. Fuyutsuki's the one who says "It was built after the Angels appeared, after all". The dialogue is in this cut -
https://wiki.evageeks.org/FGC:Episode_13_Cut_040

Unfortunately we don't have the translated script for the scene. If there's lingering confusion about the implications of Aoba's look in the scene, we could ask a translator (if available) to see what the script for the scene says, to know if something shady or suspicious is being hinted at.

@sithsauron - To me, it looked more like Gendo wanted to cover up Ireul's intrusion so that he wouldn't have to deal with the Angel and the Human Instrumentality Committee's complaining at the same time. The final scene of Episode 14 has him and Fuyutsuki discussing how the Committee has come to know about Ireul, but Fuyutsuki dismisses them as worthless fools who do nothing but complain, and Gendo agrees.

As far as I'm concerned, Evangelion started out really dark from Episode 01, and Episode 13 isn't an episode where things get dark, it's actually the start of an arc (13-16) where things get more mature and there's as much positive character development as there is negative, including some very important instances of worldbuilding. The true "Abandon hope, all ye who enter here" episode is Episode 18, IMO.

I'd say episode 01 only started dark as something Shinji and Misato were meant overcome as a team. You've got to start at the bottom to create an upwards slope. I'll buy that 14 to 17 is more plateau than decent but it feels like a primer for descent. At this point Rei Asuka and Shinji aren't really acting like they might be a team anymore. It particularly sucks that Asuka starts getting sidelined as an endearing character and the story devolves her portrayal into that of a spoiled brat. I know it's part of her character arc, but the episode 15 kiss with Shinji is last bit of solid comic relief we get from her, then she becomes someone who is difficult to deal with or be around.

@UrsusArctos If Gendo was willing to withstand an in-person death threat from SEELE and still lie to their faces, that feels more like strategy to me than a situational convenience. In Episode 14 when he discusses it with Fuyutsuki, the game of Shogi happening during that conversation seems like blatant visual allegory to their subject matter. And while Gendo and Fuyutsuki are supposedly on the same side, Fuyutsuki knows well that Gendo is probably hiding things from him, like how Gendo may intend for Rei to play a bigger role in HIP than he is willing to let on. In fact, the whole conversation seems like Fuyutsuki trying to pick Gendo's brain and get him to slip and reveal the motivations behind such a bold move against SEELE. Fuyutsuki talks in an emotional and tricky way, with bit of grandiose, the same way an elder conversationalist might try to lure out a younger counterpart's inner thoughts and feelings by trying to cater to them and be entertaining.

I thought Aoba's dialogue just showcased Nerve's dilemma in repairing things. Some members would like things done well so they'll be strong enough for the next attack. Others would like to get things done quickly in case the next Angel attack starts imminently. Honestly Aoba's glare looks more like an animation budgetary constraint, like the animators never bothered to change his face for the extra few seconds it was on screen. NGE is a show from the 90's after all. I don't think they were trying intimate that Aoba was glaring suspiciously after he verbalized his concern.

AWinters wrote:Is it possible that Ireul was planted in HQ during the black out?

Possible, but not supported by evidence.

AWinters wrote:SEELE seemed to know about the attack, so I suspect they had something to do with making it happen.

Or they have multiple sources of information instead of relying on whatever bullshit Gendo feeds them.

AWinters wrote:Could an angel get into HQ alone and undetected?

Sure. Rei does it every day.

WDS, you probably ought to be a little less combatitive in how you present your opinions.