What did Shinji do to deserve instrumentality?
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What did Shinji do to deserve instrumentality?
When instrumentality starts Rei says to Shinji that this is what he wanted but I don't see how he wanted it to happen.
I'm just some random guy who loves Evangelion.
- kuribo-04
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Re: What did Shinji do to deserve instrumentality?
She means the fact that Shinji felt anxiety dealing with people, and in a way this world without different people is what he wanted. It's not so much the "end of the world" what she means, but the removal of doubts cuased by individual minds.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
~('.'~) (~'.')~ Dancin Kirby
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
~('.'~) (~'.')~ Dancin Kirby
Re: What did Shinji do to deserve instrumentality?
It's like when wishing upon a Djinn or something, how such a wish would backfire.
"I wish for world peace" > *Djinn kills all people* > there! world peace!
Shinji didn't want to feel pain anymore, other people are constantly hurting him, and it's too much, so he'd wish for it all to stop.
And that wish got fulfilled in that moment. This is the result he wanted, he didn't activily wish for people to die or get tanged. Yet, this is the result, Shinji of course never gave it any thought on how to accomplish the result, who could have known some progenitor deity would come along and actually fulfill that wish? So, quite logically later in the process Shinji changes his mind.
"I wish for world peace" > *Djinn kills all people* > there! world peace!
Shinji didn't want to feel pain anymore, other people are constantly hurting him, and it's too much, so he'd wish for it all to stop.
And that wish got fulfilled in that moment. This is the result he wanted, he didn't activily wish for people to die or get tanged. Yet, this is the result, Shinji of course never gave it any thought on how to accomplish the result, who could have known some progenitor deity would come along and actually fulfill that wish? So, quite logically later in the process Shinji changes his mind.
Re: What did Shinji do to deserve instrumentality?
Zoop wrote:It's like when wishing upon a Djinn or something, how such a wish would backfire.
"I wish for world peace" > *Djinn kills all people* > there! world peace!
Shinji didn't want to feel pain anymore, other people are constantly hurting him, and it's too much, so he'd wish for it all to stop.
And that wish got fulfilled in that moment. This is the result he wanted, he didn't activily wish for people to die or get tanged. Yet, this is the result, Shinji of course never gave it any thought on how to accomplish the result, who could have known some progenitor deity would come along and actually fulfill that wish? So, quite logically later in the process Shinji changes his mind.
Thanks for the answers!
I'm just some random guy who loves Evangelion.
- OutlawThirds
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Re: What did Shinji do to deserve instrumentality?
Shinji figuratively rejects other people's individual existences by choking Asuka and then explicitly rejects it in his conversation with Rei right before Rei fires up the Anti AT field. He says something along the lines of "Everyone can just die."
Re: What did Shinji do to deserve instrumentality?
I don't actually remember that part.
I'm just some random guy who loves Evangelion.
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Re: What did Shinji do to deserve instrumentality?
This is all when Kom Susser Tod plays.
Re: What did Shinji do to deserve instrumentality?
Rei sort of dissapears ad the end of both the OG show and the manga, given that Rei 3 never really interacted with Shinji apart of him thinking she is some sort of monster/inposter.
She probably knew if she let Gendo pick he would unite with Yui and she liked Gendo (for some reason).
She might have made Shinji pick because then she could pretend to be Yui and be with Gendo (Rei dissapears yes but theirs a Yui with Gendo and a Yui in space (gendo dies in the movie he does not die in the original series).
So the things Rei showed to people, are the things People wanted to see not necesairly the truth, Maya wanted to be told Ritsuko loved her (this was false), Shigeru wanted to see what was going on (and saw a bunch of naked Rei's taking people it was true but it didn't make him happy) Makoto likewise sought what he wanted to see (Misato was not interested in him).
So why would Shinji be any different, Rei simply picked him because she could reasonably predict his demands and was confident enough she could manipulate him to do what she wanted (the right thing)
in short he was convenient and picking him ment Gendo couldn't as he would asked her things she didn't want to do (reunite him with Yui)
She probably knew if she let Gendo pick he would unite with Yui and she liked Gendo (for some reason).
She might have made Shinji pick because then she could pretend to be Yui and be with Gendo (Rei dissapears yes but theirs a Yui with Gendo and a Yui in space (gendo dies in the movie he does not die in the original series).
So the things Rei showed to people, are the things People wanted to see not necesairly the truth, Maya wanted to be told Ritsuko loved her (this was false), Shigeru wanted to see what was going on (and saw a bunch of naked Rei's taking people it was true but it didn't make him happy) Makoto likewise sought what he wanted to see (Misato was not interested in him).
So why would Shinji be any different, Rei simply picked him because she could reasonably predict his demands and was confident enough she could manipulate him to do what she wanted (the right thing)
in short he was convenient and picking him ment Gendo couldn't as he would asked her things she didn't want to do (reunite him with Yui)
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Re: What did Shinji do to deserve instrumentality?
He happened to be at the intersection of "People who Rei knows personally"(a rather short list) and "People who Rei isn't pissed at"
IMHO that is the wrong way to look at it. It's not like being the focal point of an eldritch ritual that also represents a great temptation is such a great privilege, (*side eyes Yui*), and it's not a "good" or "deserved" thing that an arguably very unqualified person (an inexperienced, inhibited kid in mid-mental breakdown who 's had a very horrible couple of months and was forced to mercy-kill his bestie the day before)
Shinji ending up at the steering wheel is very much a bad thing, as you can tell by the fact that it almost ends the world.
But the one making the decision is a kid, too. (Rei) It's not like she has a large collection of more well-adjusted friends to consult.
I find a kind of dark poetic justice in that all the complicated plans of SEELE, Gendo etc. went to naught and the big decision winds up in the hands of two kids that they used and abused to reach their goals. It's very much a result of the environment they lived in that those two didn't exactly turn out humanistic and hopeful, not that this absolves them of all responsibility.
Motivation wise, Shinji isn't thinking very clearly after all the trauma conga he's been through & is very much in a state of lashing out in pent-up resentment at perceived resentment. (which is also what the hospital scene was kind of about) - all of which is very much an acute result of the extreme situations but at the same time also grounded in preexisting character flaws. (such as being bad at handling rejection, a tendency to ignore unpleasant truths and some unease with the unpredictability of people)
If the MP EVAs had attacked just a week later, things may have turned out very different, but if you've read any war stories it's sadly very realistic for even an adult soldier to snap and commit some atrocity after a comrade was killed.
As for Rei, the whole "the world is filled with emptiness..." line says it all - that's basically why she goes along with it.
IMHO that is the wrong way to look at it. It's not like being the focal point of an eldritch ritual that also represents a great temptation is such a great privilege, (*side eyes Yui*), and it's not a "good" or "deserved" thing that an arguably very unqualified person (an inexperienced, inhibited kid in mid-mental breakdown who 's had a very horrible couple of months and was forced to mercy-kill his bestie the day before)
Shinji ending up at the steering wheel is very much a bad thing, as you can tell by the fact that it almost ends the world.
But the one making the decision is a kid, too. (Rei) It's not like she has a large collection of more well-adjusted friends to consult.
I find a kind of dark poetic justice in that all the complicated plans of SEELE, Gendo etc. went to naught and the big decision winds up in the hands of two kids that they used and abused to reach their goals. It's very much a result of the environment they lived in that those two didn't exactly turn out humanistic and hopeful, not that this absolves them of all responsibility.
Motivation wise, Shinji isn't thinking very clearly after all the trauma conga he's been through & is very much in a state of lashing out in pent-up resentment at perceived resentment. (which is also what the hospital scene was kind of about) - all of which is very much an acute result of the extreme situations but at the same time also grounded in preexisting character flaws. (such as being bad at handling rejection, a tendency to ignore unpleasant truths and some unease with the unpredictability of people)
If the MP EVAs had attacked just a week later, things may have turned out very different, but if you've read any war stories it's sadly very realistic for even an adult soldier to snap and commit some atrocity after a comrade was killed.
As for Rei, the whole "the world is filled with emptiness..." line says it all - that's basically why she goes along with it.
I wanted to try harvesting the rice
I wanted to hold Tsubame more
I wanted to stay together forever with the boy I like
I wanted to hold Tsubame more
I wanted to stay together forever with the boy I like
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