What would you change about Evangelion?

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby The18°angel » Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:15 am

You know it seems to me that there are too many spies / betrayals while I imagine that this is possible due to everything that happens in evangelion with politics and conspiracies. But I do not think it is possible that NERV can be betrayed on 4 different occasions by its pilots. I imagine that after the mana incident NERV would increase the security around the pilots and they would make a review of the past of the pilots looking for something that is wrong. Unless NERV is completely incompetent at reviewing the past of its pilots or at the very least NERV would put security measures to prevent a rogue pilot from using an eva. maybe DSS necklaces

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby orcot » Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:09 am

Some small subbplots

This idea would add more ritsuko's ending and sort of explore a Ritusuko instrumentality.

In it Ritsuko's cat gets run over by a car Ritsuko clones it a new body, the clones themself fail they either have a (cat) soul of their own or they simply do not resemble the cat (https://cattime.com/trending/10923-the- ... -identical).

Anyway Ritsuke ends up extracting the soul out of her old cat and putting it in a newer younger (idealized) body. It sort of ends badly, it either is to traumatized and lobotomizing it to forget the incident makes it behave like it didn't learn anything, Ritsuko comes to the conclusion that pain is necesairy to learn and that a universe where everyone remains young and doesn't experience pain would be a static one where the planet itself slowly decays. (As Ritusko never performs instrumentality she can come to that realization on her own as character growth, her not wanting to get into a static loop could be what set her up confronting Gendo).

Rei doesn't dance with Shinji, eventough Hikaru points out that Rei is a excelent dancer, Rei has bad body language where she stares into peoples faces when she wants attention but it comes over as don't you dare stare making Misato uncomfortable so she dances with Shinji. (the body language get's pointed out in episode 23 for rewatching pleasure)
Rei is seen performing ballet on "Part of Your World"

During the fight with Zeruel Rei still get's rejected by Yui. Fuyutsuki makes a comment abouth nepotism and dissapointment in Yui who is "grieving". Asuka actualy does some damage to zeruel ripping of one of it's arms and damages it's face, Zeruel get's speared (by a regular spear and drops next to Shinji and Kaji near the watermelons, Asuka sees them and grabs zeruel by the arm throwing him away seriously injuring her own hand in the process as she pushing zeruel away with was essentialy a blade. (no stopping and ripping a blade with outstretched fingers in this version looks cool until you think abouth it then you realize this is basickly a bollywood fight in the original)

however Asuka still looses both arms and get's decapitated we see Shinji running towards unit 01 and we see Rei running in some warehouse.
Shinji fights zeruel but has already obtained the S2 core from a previous angel (leliel). Shinji goes all out get's a halo angelic wings it's a stroboscope of effects. Zeruel cracked mask reveals something that does suggest a human like face in pain. Shinji raises Unit 02 (in a magical way) and reattaches it's limbs and head like a doll.
The final movements will later be reused between Shinji and Asuka on the beach (unit 02 caress unit 01 face). Shinji/unit 01 stands up holding a red orb in his hand moving towards zeruel unit 01 fingers can be seen around the world.
Rei pops up in a 1 armed unit 00 caring the spear of longinus she spears zeruel and taps out unit 01.

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby BernardoCairo » Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:15 am

The spears and their thematic role in Q.
Trying to go back and redo your mistakes is framed as an irresponsible and childish act (which I agree). However, I can't blame Shinji for going that way. I mean, Kaworu (the guy he considers knowledgeable) was also tricked and talked him to do so. It seems like everything went wrong simply because those weren't the right spears, when the idea of running away from your responsibilities and trying to fix the world was stupid by nature.
It would be better if Shinji knew that pulling spears could lead to unintended consequences or something. High risk, high reward, you know? Kaworu could be there to tell him all about it and support his decision. That would make Shinji's choice to pilot Unit 13 that much more impactful as well. Ayanami is gone and everyone is killing each other. He'll do whatever it takes to fix everything, despite the risks. He'll put lives in danger to do what he thinks is right, to get his old life back. Kaworu will follow him like a sheep, of course. That's his character flaw, after all. It's all about Shinji. It's always all about Shinji. Here we have a being who is undeniably smart, but sees the world through a narrow lock, the needs of someone else. He'll die for that.

"Fuck the potential consequences, fuck the risks, fuck Wille, fuck Misato, fuck Asuka, fuck Nerv and fuck my dad. I'm young! I'm invincible! I need to fix everything! I can't live with the fact that I'm responsible for all of this. No, I mean, it's about saving everyone. It's about fixing! Yeah, my mistakes... I want Ayanami. I want mom."

Anyway, Q is the only NTE movie worth changing anything. JO is good the way it is, HA is fundamentally worthless for me and Shin is bonkers. Q is a movie tied by its themes. It works 90% of the time, but the spears just don't make any sense.
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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby orcot » Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:21 am

View Original PostBernardoCairo wrote:Anyway, Q is the only NTE movie worth changing anything. JO is good the way it is, HA is fundamentally worthless for me and Shin is bonkers. Q is a movie tied by its themes. It works 90% of the time, but the spears just don't make any sense.


Now without abbreviations please

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby pwhodges » Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:15 am

The first three movies of the Evangelion New Theatrical Edition (NTE) are commonly named for the three stages in one Japanese formulation of story-telling - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo-ha-kyū.

Shin means "new", as in Shin Godzilla, Shin Ultraman or Shin Evangelion, each being Anno's recent addition to a franchise. (Though it has many other meanings, like "real".)
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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby Blockio » Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:08 pm

Also of note is that those are not abbreviations, but rather the official Japanese titles.
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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby orcot » Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:30 pm

So if you had to add a bit of a subplot for Ritsuko that adds a additional 20 or so minutes in the 26 episodes without removing something substantial what would you change (with the goal to make the adults a bit more popular/interesting).
What would you let her/them to?

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby YTPrenewed » Wed Jul 20, 2022 8:21 pm

1. I'd start with laying off the screaming. I get that Shinji’s scared, but there are those who can cry a (relatively) more dignified quiet-cry even when scared out of their minds. Why couldn’t Shinji have been one of them? The guy learned to play the violin for the sake of pleasing others, but not to hold back the screaming for the same reason?

2. Stop calling the characters “children”. Yes, they are babyfaced, pitiable teenagers who each have different semi-childlike traits of their own. But they’re still teenagers. The people who claim to think of teenagers as children overlap considerably with those saying actions from your teen years shouldn’t count even the slightest bit against you later in life… yet who are known for subsequently bringing up actions, from the teen years, of the very people who disagree with them on that very subject. If they really thought of stuff from people’s teen years as off limits, it would never even dawn on them to bring them up. Ideas that disproportionately attract hypocrites don’t deserve to be pandered to. I know it’s for-profit media catering to the highest bidder, but still… teenagers are their own age demographic. Not to be conflated with any other. Shinji genuinely hesitating at Asuka’s suggestion they kiss stands out among media when the characters are teenagers. If the characters were children it’d be a lot closer to being par for the course.

3. Lay off the nudity. I presume it was meant more to drive home the characters’ vulnerability than any attempts to be “fanservicey” (Misato is more seductive when smirking, even while clothed, than when frowning, even while naked) but it is often unnecessary (ep20’s fantasies scene could have made clear where they were going with that from the dialogue alone, for instance) and puts it way down the list of stuff I’d rewatch the episodes those scenes are from in any setting with others around, especially strangers. Last thing I need is a bunch of idiots making me out to be watching it for the nudity and not in spite of it. Especially given the ages of some of the characters.

4. On a more trivial note… I wish they could have reprised Tsubasa Wo Kudasai for the Thrice Upon A Time ending. Last Kiss was okay, but wasn’t as special as Tsubasa Wo Kudasai. I think taking a song previously used
SPOILER: Show
for an apocalypse scene
and revisiting it with a crowd shot of the remaining characters would have been a nice touch. Especially if it ended on a reprise of this part of the melody. (That part just stands out to me!)

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby orcot » Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:57 am

View Original PostYTPrenewed wrote:1. I'd start with laying off the screaming. I get that Shinji’s scared, but there are those who can cry a (relatively) more dignified quiet-cry even when scared out of their minds. Why couldn’t Shinji have been one of them? The guy learned to play the violin for the sake of pleasing others, but not to hold back the screaming for the same reason?

The screaming can stay I say does anyone has a issue with the screaming?

View Original PostYTPrenewed wrote:2. Stop calling the characters “children”. Yes, they are babyfaced, pitiable teenagers who each have different semi-childlike traits of their own. But they’re still teenagers. The people who claim to think of teenagers as children overlap considerably with those saying actions from your teen years shouldn’t count even the slightest bit against you later in life… yet who are known for subsequently bringing up actions, from the teen years, of the very people who disagree with them on that very subject. If they really thought of stuff from people’s teen years as off limits, it would never even dawn on them to bring them up. Ideas that disproportionately attract hypocrites don’t deserve to be pandered to. I know it’s for-profit media catering to the highest bidder, but still… teenagers are their own age demographic. Not to be conflated with any other. Shinji genuinely hesitating at Asuka’s suggestion they kiss stands out among media when the characters are teenagers. If the characters were children it’d be a lot closer to being par for the course.


I think it's fair to call them children (child soldiers). They are under the age of 18 etc... crimes commited as children are judges different theirs a thing called juvenile court etc. I'm a bit lost on what you mean with the kiss scene this one was done allright I think.

View Original PostYTPrenewed wrote:3. Lay off the nudity. I presume it was meant more to drive home the characters’ vulnerability than any attempts to be “fanservicey” (Misato is more seductive when smirking, even while clothed, than when frowning, even while naked) but it is often unnecessary (ep20’s fantasies scene could have made clear where they were going with that from the dialogue alone, for instance) and puts it way down the list of stuff I’d rewatch the episodes those scenes are from in any setting with others around, especially strangers. Last thing I need is a bunch of idiots making me out to be watching it for the nudity and not in spite of it. Especially given the ages of some of the characters.

Rei is the only character we see totaly nude and topless the others are offcamera or to show scars an clothed fan service. Getting Rei dressed is sort of complicated with all the swimming clones.

Changes on Asuka being a tsundere how impossible and insane such a person would be, give her (a clinical accurate) trauma, PTSD over the death of her mother with some depression (following the advice of real child psychologists) like you can accuraly diagnose her and the only vageness is to have a overlap with with real people suffer so add in a lot of stress in how to portray her to the outside world.
Someone as submisve as Rei should be pointed out to probably have autisme/asperger feels lonly and depressed. and also suffers from the stress of public speaking (but again portrayed under the advice of a child child psychologists) like how do the 3 children that save the world repeatedly not do tv interviews.
Especialy if the public needs to be convinced to countries worth of GDP to fix their sneaker demons
Shinji get's to have PTSD and perhaps sexual confusion (with putting to much attention on it). Being a people pleasere that does things to make other like him whilst completly hiding himself

Gendo is a very well dead inside character who can't possible run a big compagny. Turn him not in a comic relief character but again a character with multiple faces make him actually a adult version of a bitter nihilistic Shinji that portrayes himself so people will respond to what he want. (A high functioning alcoholic very depressed manipulator)

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby YTPrenewed » Sat Aug 13, 2022 8:03 am

View Original Postorcot wrote:The screaming can stay I say does anyone has a issue with the screaming?

It just makes me cringe, and I'm not completely sure why. Maybe I'm embarrassed for the characters, maybe I just find it absurd that the show opted for that over giving the characters ways that aren't as loud to express fear.


View Original Postorcot wrote:I think it's fair to call them children (child soldiers). They are under the age of 18 etc... crimes commited as children are judges different theirs a thing called juvenile court etc.

At the risk of thread branching, let's just say that, in practice, whether someone is tried as an adult or not comes down to a variety of racial and socioeconomic biases. And that's just the court of law... as I already mentioned, there's a certain hypocrisy in apologists for that notion of not holding actions from teen years against someone being among the first to use its critics' actions in their teen years against them. That does not strike me as the behavior of those who truly believe in what they preach.


View Original Postorcot wrote:I'm a bit lost on what you mean with the kiss scene this one was done allright I think.

What I mean is even the usual stereotypes about boys as always eagerly accepting girls' advances carve out an exception for (actual) childhood that they wouldn't for the teen years. (And rightfully so, of course.) Obviously you'd expect something different from Shinji than from, let's say, Calvin from Calvin&Hobbes.

Don't get me wrong, it's interesting to see it challenged even in depictions of teenagers, especially in a context that doesn't immediately soil its own credibility by calling all who tout that stereotype examples of it. But it's precisely because they're teenagers that such a depiction stands out from the rest.


View Original Postorcot wrote:Rei is the only character we see totaly nude and topless the others are offcamera or to show scars an clothed fan service. Getting Rei dressed is sort of complicated with all the swimming clones.

Yeah, and that comes across as another one of those "driving home the characters' vulnerability" moments anyway.

Forgot all about that magma diver ending! Even that seems to have been more to establish it as an Asuka-Misato bonding moment.

Again, I'm betting most of that sort of thing wasn't meant for fanservice; plenty of clothed scenes feel more like they fit that purpose (eg. Misato-at-home scenes from ep 2); but all else held constant it makes things seem like they'd be more awkward for viewing in front of others all the same.

I take it the remaining paragraphs were meant for what you would change about the show?

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby orcot » Sat Aug 13, 2022 12:28 pm

Hey YT thanks for commenting

View Original PostYTPrenewed#936677 wrote:It just makes me cringe, and I'm not completely sure why. Maybe I'm embarrassed for the characters, maybe I just find it absurd that the show opted for that over giving the characters ways that aren't as loud to express fear.


I believe that the screams are supposed to be agony, one of the better aspects of eva always have been if someone is given the ability to jump into a giant mecha they would jump on the opportunity to be the hero. Whilst most people would be scared to the bone to go and fight against a lovecraftian angel.

Also children are allowed to scream when their bones have been broken and they are abouth to get murdered. I remember a scene in the first episode of the tomb raider reboot with lara sniveling all the way trough gruesome murder scene (killing the guy with the teddy bear).
The thing is we're not supposed to show compassion with the angels, aftherall the first one we see killed had both of his arms broken and is beaten to death with one of his own ribs. (it's also insinuated that breaking his arms wasn't really necesairy but was done because the angel broke one of unit 01 arms)

That said with the screaming atempting to make Shinji more human they did make a mistake with making him to overpowered, as it hurts the story. Towards the end Asuka comments that why are they even fighting if it will end with Shinji swooping in and saving the day... And whilst she is supposed to be unhinged she is absolutly right.

That said whilst Shinji screams Rei has some silent sobbing moments and Asuka has near euforic screams (driven to 11 with Mari).


View Original PostYTPrenewed#936677 wrote:At the risk of thread branching, let's just say that, in practice, whether someone is tried as an adult or not comes down to a variety of racial and socioeconomic biases. And that's just the court of law... as I already mentioned, there's a certain hypocrisy in apologists for that notion of not holding actions from teen years against someone being among the first to use its critics' actions in their teen years against them. That does not strike me as the behavior of those who truly believe in what they preach.


Maybe, but Rei sort of got born in her situation, Shinji was dropped in, Asuka is willing but somewhat naive (she doesn't know or wants to know what the angels are apart from monsters attacking humanity) and she doesn't know the basics of even her own eva).
The characters race isn't really inportant at least in context with Rei littlerally being a blank slate, And Asuka being quit the mix (Japanese american german).
Their socioeconomic background is sort of weird. Why are they so poor and does this help the story in anyway? (I think not honnestly).
My conclusion is their children they definitly have their personality. I'm not sure how Anno want's to combine the timelessness of eva (you do not know how much time passes and the characters do not mature) with the characters ??maturing/growing up?? honnestly it's abid of a mess especialy the rebuilts like why is Asuka suddenly over 18 but still a child in lind and body and what is adult Shinji anyway? he went from a child to a adult in a fingersnap, he has the education of a 13 year old (I consider his 14 year to traumatizing to learn anything on school) he does not know where he lives or what he does for work etc.
but that is mostly the rebuilds



View Original PostYTPrenewed#936677 wrote:What I mean is even the usual stereotypes about boys as always eagerly accepting girls' advances carve out an exception for (actual) childhood that they wouldn't for the teen years. (And rightfully so, of course.) Obviously you'd expect something different from Shinji than from, let's say, Calvin from Calvin&Hobbes.

A girl simply just wanting to kiss seems weird but sadamto probably agrees he added a scene that had Asuka caming out of the bathtub covered in towels and asking Shinji if he wanted to see what she had underneath. Turned out sha ws having a bathing suit underneath and just wanted to see him squirm.
That said in the anime Asuka wanted Shinji to show some initiative during the scene and was mostly opset because he didn't. (2 souls fail to communicate properly)

View Original PostYTPrenewed#936677 wrote:Don't get me wrong, it's interesting to see it challenged even in depictions of teenagers, especially in a context that doesn't immediately soil its own credibility by calling all who tout that stereotype examples of it. But it's precisely because they're teenagers that such a depiction stands out from the rest.

Shinji was frightend and didn't know what to do and it was akward that could be the experience of a 14 year old. (Shinji wasn't promoting abstinence or something)

View Original PostYTPrenewed#936677 wrote:
View Original Postorcot#936631#936677 wrote:Rei is the only character we see totaly nude and topless the others are offcamera or to show scars an clothed fan service. Getting Rei dressed is sort of complicated with all the swimming clones.

Yeah, and that comes across as another one of those "driving home the characters' vulnerability" moments anyway.

Yes the vulnabilty to be the human form of your god on earth, a inmortal being. Rei is never vulnerabal when nude. Not when Shinji fell on top of her, not when she needed to pilot the eva naked (because Japanese cartoon). Not when she was in her tube not when she was in front of gendo when she ate his hand with her bellybutton.

View Original PostYTPrenewed#936677 wrote:Forgot all about that magma diver ending! Even that seems to have been more to establish it as an Asuka-Misato bonding moment.
Again, I'm betting most of that sort of thing wasn't meant for fanservice; plenty of clothed scenes feel more like they fit that purpose (eg. Misato-at-home scenes from ep 2); but all else held constant it makes things seem like they'd be more awkward for viewing in front of others all the same.

theirs fanservice here for sure but it's also Misato lowering her defenses a bit

I take it the remaining paragraphs were meant for what you would change about the show?[/quote]
Sort of.
The bond between Rei and Gendo is never properly explained I believe, and that is because Gendo himself is never properly explainend.

Personally I would probably split the angel fights up in episodes of 3.
1 a mystery (mostly introduction of a angel)
2 action pact episode mostly a fight
3 a personal story abouth the pilots doing their daily life and some introspection. (less eva's and angels)

And that rate you would need 16*3 or 48 episodes So you need 4 specials to get to 2 seasons or basickly 1 film to bridge the 2 sweason and 1 to end it all.

This allows the proper time to tell the story. (let's face it, the different endings to instrumentality what exactly was the difference between Gendo and Seele's ending is never made really clear for example). Also the entire story was Lilith landing on earth whilst adam was already there and on of 2 spears broke so adam went into hybernation it's never really explainend in the series but it's canon non the less). Angels like leliel needed some extra screentime. Eva 5 who detonated (and killed it's pilot aswell Asuka most have knew him/her). The spear needs some work aswell like why does it kill a angel and not make it dorment? It doesn't make sence really.
So halfway normaly stop at Sahaquiel but the order can be changed. So yeah lilith wants to consume adam (the fruit of knowledge wants to eat the fruit of life) and some bizar coincedenses happend (the lance of longinus broke) my plottwist would be that the reason why adam was already on earth before lilith was because Lilith already absorbed a other god before arriving on earth the seed of change. It gives a decend midway point and given that episode 26 happy Rei is quit popular it gives the story more "sane" ways to show alternative universes that does not have eva's for example. it also allows some explenaition for quantum Rei or imagenairy characters from imagenairy universes.Honnestly the alternative uiverse idea doesn't have to be implemented something else can be choosen as the midpoint but showing alternative versions is the easiest way to allow tie ins with other future eva universes I believe. A universe with other main characters or different personalities etc

From the first season:
- More early building On Rei's and gendo relationship
- More interactive fights Rei and Shinji fight in tandem against Shamshel for example and during the mystery parts we see some eva's sparring etc seeing basic maintenance to introduce background characters a bit more.
- More focus on secondary (Gendo, ritsuko,..) and tertiary characters (Shinji's foster parents, Asuka foster mom,...)
- More lore
- Less powerfantasies around Shinji (he remains the main character)
- More accurate representation of ADHD, Autism, PTSD, abandomend issues like anno hire a child psychologist

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby nerv bae » Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:58 pm

View Original Postorcot wrote:The screaming can stay I say does anyone has a issue with the screaming?

I think the screaming is good. :kaworu_thumbsup:

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby YTPrenewed » Sat Aug 20, 2022 11:51 am

View Original Postorcot wrote:That said with the screaming atempting to make Shinji more human they did make a mistake with making him to overpowered, as it hurts the story. Towards the end Asuka comments that why are they even fighting if it will end with Shinji swooping in and saving the day... And whilst she is supposed to be unhinged she is absolutly right.

Shinji is overpowered physically (especially when he's in the EVA) but mentally he still sees himself as a weakling. Just as he thinks no one wants him even after his fangirls fawned over him, and his friends showed more respect for him than they did for each other. Methinks it's all part and parcel of that theme of insecurity often outstripping any logical basis for it. It's not like Misato thinking her loyal officers would trash-talk her in unison given the chance or Asuka taking Shinji's questions about her motives for kissing him as outright rejection were necessarily any less ridiculous.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to judge them for screaming, I just think in a medium where one can depict anything, one might as well depict a quieter cry.


View Original Postorcot wrote:That said whilst Shinji screams Rei has some silent sobbing moments and Asuka has near euforic screams (driven to 11 with Mari).

When I watched the Rebuilds, Mari actually struck me as a sweeter and more cheerful version of Asuka. (Singing to herself was adorable!) She enjoys combat comparably much and probably more. She's also smug, if slightly less so, but the bigger difference is in how much more cheerful a form of smugness it is. It's not even made clear whether she had comparable rage issues (at least on Asuka's level) for which she to the same extent needed combat as a constructive outlet. In spite of that I can't think of two other major NGE characters who have more in common with each other than Mari and Asuka. I almost wonder if that was on purpose; as if a microcosm of how the Rebuilds would explore similar themes in a somewhat more uplifting manner. Certainly I don't mind seeing Asuka's more neutral (or at least "could be good or bad depending on the circumstances") traits tied to more positive ones in another character.


View Original Postorcot wrote:My conclusion is their children they definitly have their personality. I'm not sure how Anno want's to combine the timelessness of eva (you do not know how much time passes and the characters do not mature)

In the Rebuilds, you mean? Asuka's continued anger issues seem to be a product of the apocalyptic circumstances, not childishness. Asuka had a crush on Shinji yet still saw him bring about the apocalypse just to see Rei again. We have no idea how much anger she was stewing in for all those years. Her punching the glass barrier between them is jarring, but the more you think about it, the less inclined you feel to judge her for it. It's not like Misato was that much nicer to him, at least within 3.0. (I am SO glad Thrice Upon a Time went into Misato's share of self-blame for it.)


View Original Postorcot wrote:That said in the anime Asuka wanted Shinji to show some initiative during the scene and was mostly opset because he didn't. (2 souls fail to communicate properly)

Shinji was in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't". He couldn't have been sure if she'd regret kissing him so soon after claiming Kaji was the only man for her. It's not clear whether he even realizes Kaji's supposed to say no. (In my own preteen years I used to judge Sonic so hard for saying no to Amy Rose. Little did I realize the neighbours of mine who said "better for a guy to date a girl a couple years younger than the reverse" didn't speak for everyone else.) Asuka was the only one of the two at the time to have reacted angrily to supposedly-unwanted intimacy, including unintended intimacy, including stuff he didn't go through with but only contemplated. If anything Shinji had more to risk from showing initiative than she did. Worst he could have done if she did is discover her longing to have him, and use it to get his way, but either partner could have done that to the other, and ep15!Shinji seemed far less likely to than Asuka was, given how docile he was at the time. In fiction and in real life, it was never just "rejection" that anyone was afraid of. That was only ever just a way out of mentioning the more controversial fears.

But again, it's still interesting to show a guy hesitating at a girl's advances even for a good reason. I'm under no illusion that they were going for abstinence either; on the contrary the most vocal opponents of abstinence only sex ed are often somehow the most vocal opponents of the notion of boys as absolute raging horndogs. Too bad they also overlap with people who smear believers in the latter stereotype as examples of it... which makes NGE ep 15 (or by comparison ep23 with its "please don't, Miss Misato" line) all the more special for not taking that approach.

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby orcot » Thu Aug 25, 2022 1:30 pm

A fun idea would be when Toji is in the hospital Rei is donating blood as he would have lost his leg. With Rei mentioning it will never be the same but he can keep it if he wishes it, altough she wouldn't hold it against him if he chooses a prostehsis.(indicating she will fight for a person to have a choice).

During the original episode, fight with Shamsiel Shinji drops a ladder allowing the 2 boys to visit the cockpit during a battle. In a more drown out 2 season series promoting multiverse (a story that repeats). During the fight with Shamshel we see Shinji (in tandem with Rei)attacking, shamshel defending and Toji observing.

During the dream alternate reality it's Toji attacking (in tandem with his injured sister in a plugsuit altough possesed by Rei) in unit 04, Toji defending (as shamshel Rei is there aswel it looks like shamshel but Toji has difficulty seeing the difference) and Toji observing the fight but with Rei instead of Kensuke.

PS Shamsels moveset will be exactly the same as bardiels

it's overal a fun episode focusing on empathy and what you would have done if you we're forst to pilot it focusses a bit more on the school; it's probably the first "new" episode as the first 3 episodes follow the theme of mysteria (ep1 Shinji arriving in tokyo 3); action(ep2 angel fight); exposition(ep3Shinji goes to school without ramiel and more abouth the other students). (ep4 Shinji training/learning the city,Rei of NERV headquarters) (ep5 shamshel fight coupled with Shinji fleeing) (ep6 episode previously described alt reality show and focus on the school)

View Original PostYTPrenewed wrote:Shinji is overpowered physically (especially when he's in the EVA) but mentally he still sees himself as a weakling. Just as he thinks no one wants him even after his fangirls fawned over him, and his friends showed more respect for him than they did for each other. Methinks it's all part and parcel of that theme of insecurity often outstripping any logical basis for it. It's not like Misato thinking her loyal officers would trash-talk her in unison given the chance or Asuka taking Shinji's questions about her motives for kissing him as outright rejection were necessarily any less ridiculous.

Have you everread the Manga Claymore or angel densetsu. Both work on the premise of a strong looking character that really isn't but are good with making friends and are therefore great. I believe angel densetsu did it better but it's my beleive that Shinji doesn't need to be the hero in that he defeats all the enemies and the other pilots are simply wipping toys to show off how strong the enemies are ( a bid like worf on star trek) Asuka also blatantly says this out load.
The point being without militairy training Shinji shouldn't be this overpowered.
SPecifically on the screaming Shinji has you covered the big agonizing cry he's got you covered, more into snivelings cries he can do that to his a man that knows how to cry.

View Original Postorcot#936679 wrote:That said whilst Shinji screams Rei has some silent sobbing moments and Asuka has near euforic screams (driven to 11 with Mari).

When I watched the Rebuilds, Mari actually struck me as a sweeter and more cheerful version of Asuka. (Singing to herself was adorable!) She enjoys combat comparably much and probably more. She's also smug, if slightly less so, but the bigger difference is in how much more cheerful a form of smugness it is. It's not even made clear whether she had comparable rage issues (at least on Asuka's level) for which she to the same extent needed combat as a constructive outlet. In spite of that I can't think of two other major NGE characters who have more in common with each other than Mari and Asuka. I almost wonder if that was on purpose; as if a microcosm of how the Rebuilds would explore similar themes in a somewhat more uplifting manner. Certainly I don't mind seeing Asuka's more neutral (or at least "could be good or bad depending on the circumstances") traits tied to more positive ones in another character.
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I think is Mari's case her attacks work out and she has worth of god and knows stuff abouth unit 02 even Asuka doesn't know, the entire soul to synchronize with is completly abandoned on her behalf. OG Asuka would be a lot happier aswel if she got Mari's kill rate.
Apart from that Mari is activly enjoying the pain whilst Asuka tries to avoid it.

In the Rebuilds, you mean? Asuka's continued anger issues seem to be a product of the apocalyptic circumstances, not childishness. Asuka had a crush on Shinji yet still saw him bring about the apocalypse just to see Rei again. We have no idea how much anger she was stewing in for all those years. Her punching the glass barrier between them is jarring, but the more you think about it, the less inclined you feel to judge her for it. It's not like Misato was that much nicer to him, at least within 3.0. (I am SO glad Thrice Upon a Time went into Misato's share of self-blame for it.)

Personally I would have gone closer to a bojack horseman meeting diane for the last time sort of feel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQh8laAiCx4
and Misato... well I liked her hat.

Shinji was in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't". He couldn't have been sure if she'd regret kissing him so soon after claiming Kaji was the only man for her. It's not clear whether he even realizes Kaji's supposed to say no. (In my own preteen years I used to judge Sonic so hard for saying no to Amy Rose. Little did I realize the neighbours of mine who said "better for a guy to date a girl a couple years younger than the reverse" didn't speak for everyone else.) Asuka was the only one of the two at the time to have reacted angrily to supposedly-unwanted intimacy, including unintended intimacy,

I think Asuka also wanted to be treated more mature then she was and being in the spotlight (the best) when she opened up in her own special way, well she expected more, hoped for more, needed more and there where no answers and relief on that route.

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby YTPrenewed » Mon Sep 05, 2022 10:58 am

View Original Postorcot wrote:Have you everread the Manga Claymore or angel densetsu. Both work on the premise of a strong looking character that really isn't but are good with making friends and are therefore great.

Haven't gotten around to either of those, and Google image search doesn't indicate them to be particularly kawaii as far as anime and manga go, so I'm afraid they're a bit down the list. Appreciate the recommendation all the same, though!


View Original Postorcot wrote:I believe angel densetsu did it better but it's my beleive that Shinji doesn't need to be the hero in that he defeats all the enemies and the other pilots are simply wipping toys to show off how strong the enemies are

Hardly that. Everyone pulls their weight. In ep 11 Asuka was the one who leapt into a flow of acid to block it from reaching the others. Rei in ep 22 is the one who throws the spear at an angel in outer space, albeit partly because Shinji wasn't allowed to. The point is they're at least comparable, and who is better at it was something I never thought relevant when all 3 go to such lengths under such circumstances.

It also helps drive home the point that having real problems and dwelling over imaginary ones aren't mutually exclusive. Shinji and Asuka are both at war at the age of 14. Yet the former frets over his belief "no one wants" him despite said fangirls and said friends who think more highly of him than they do of each other. And Asuka fretted over perceived rejection from a guy who just wanted some clarity on her motives (and pulled away when he couldn't breathe); and another guy who made clear that it's because he's too old for her; despite a locker full of love letters from other guys.


View Original Postorcot wrote:The point being without militairy training Shinji shouldn't be this overpowered.

They mention in the first episode that it took Rei a lot longer to sync; it's probably the whole "containing the souls of their dead mothers" thing that made him sync so well. It takes Clarke's Third Law to another level.


View Original Postorcot wrote:I think is Mari's case her attacks work out and she has worth of god

...?

Wrath of God, you mean? Even then I'm not sure which scene you're referring to... beast mode or something like that?


View Original Postorcot wrote:and knows stuff abouth unit 02 even Asuka doesn't know, the entire soul to synchronize with is completly abandoned on her behalf

I'm also not sure which scene you're referring to here either.


View Original Postorcot wrote:Apart from that Mari is activly enjoying the pain whilst Asuka tries to avoid it.

Eh, neither struck me as "enjoying the pain", just considering it worth it. Maybe it's a little more about thrill-seeking on Mari's part and a bit more about proving herself on Asuka's part, but I see some of each trait in each character, and they didn't seem too different on either trait, especially compared to how much they differ from other characters.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume 90s Anno / Studio Gainax cared a bit more about making each of the individual characters as unique as possible than 21st century Anno / Studio Khara did. To be fair, they no longer needed to.


View Original Postorcot wrote:Personally I would have gone closer to a bojack horseman meeting diane for the last time sort of feel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQh8laAiCx4

Not too familiar with Bojack Horseman, and not too interested in familiarizing myself... the inexplicable decision to draw an ugly protagonist hardly feels like it's putting animators' time and effort to the best possible use, unless that ugliness has some plot relevance (which from other western adult animation I've seen, it often doesn't). At least Shinji is a bit more babyfaced, making his relationship with Asuka something closer, at least visually, to a kawaii dysfunctional relationship than the further-from-kawaii ones in western adult animation. (And driving home that you don't need to look like Quasimodo to feel as lonely as him.) That's part of the appeal to me of anime to me more generally. Why portray ugly drunks like Barney Gumble or Rick Sanchez when you could portray a beautiful drunk like Misato? Even outside of NGE, why portray an average-looking holier-than-thou proselytizing Christian like Ned Flanders when you could portray an adorable little holier-than-thou proselytizing Christian like Momoko Koigakubo? Are they afraid of pissing off parents by making kids think the cutesy-looking show is meant for them or something? Because so long as anime exists, it should be obvious that not everything cutesy is appropriate for kids anyway. So why not say "no more half measures" and embrace kawaii visuals across the MPAA rating spectrum? (Not that I trust an institution whose conflict of interest is literally spelled out for us...)

But also, having listened to that clip, I feel the need to point out that the Rebuilds were already pretty sugar-coated compared to NGE, let alone EoE, but a nice little chat like that would probably be too sugar-coated a portrayal of that even for the Rebuilds. We're talking about a relationship that was left up in the air in NGE, and took a far more tragic turn in EoE (to be fair, it's possible Shinji knew Asuka would come back to life after the strangulation scene; it DID take place in instrumentality after she was supposedly killed in the previous battle; but putting her through that in the first place is pretty awful either way), so to go from that to her admitting she used to want him but adding she no longer does in Thrice Upon A Time was already a pretty big step in a... relatively more rosy direction. Technically, the only thing NGE, EoE, and the Rebuilds all have in common as far as how AsuShin ended goes is "it didn't work out." Which sounds like a euphemism, but is really just a reflection of how minimal the common ground between all 3 continuities on that relationship is.

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby BernardoCairo » Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:33 am

2021 Bernardo has certainly nurtured a reputation for being a huge fan of Asuka. Conversely, I'm always taking about how Shikinami is a disappointed as a character (particularly after going through a real life relationship and experiencing how things go). I think she fails not only as a romantic interest for Shinji, but also as his rival. These are the two elements of her character that punctuate her interactions with the protagonist and most of the cast in general. Kyoko's absence in the plot and her daddy issues (which had a lot to do with her feelings for Kaji and Shinji) is definitely something to point to as one of the reasons why Shikinami is underwhelming.
So what would I change? I know things had to be changed when translating Asuka to film format. A character as complex as Soryu would never work due to the way the movies are presented and the time each has to spend with each cast member. Unless Asuka took over as the protagonist, which would be interesting, but it would also defeat the whole point of the tetralogy.
Cuts had to be made and they choose to get rid of her backstory and romantic interest for Kaji, in favor of her silly crush for Shinji and battles. Their rivalry, though there, was also definitely de-emphasized. I would change that.
My idea is to turn Asuka into a full blown rival. A Vegeta-type character, so to speak. That way, more of her scenes would be about her, while also orbiting Shinji somehow (which is essential for these movies).
I think Vegeta's character arc is a actually good basis for imagining what I'm talking about.

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I obviously can't convey an entire character arc just showing a couple of pages. But you get the idea. Rival believes that he is and will always be better, his superiority is put into check, he fails and needs the protagonist, this breaks his ego and creates a psycho rivalry which looses meaning after a while. Even the timeskip is covered here, as Vegeta did evolve during the seven years of peace between Cell and Boo. But as soon as Goku went back for a day, he reverted back to his old persona, as he and Goku were never able to receive closure way back then. This leads the rival to try to fix his mistakes, make peace with who he has become and "reborn" as a new person, able to see value in the other and in his way of dealing with situations. If you want to be the best, you got to do it for yourself and not others.

Sure, I wouldn't make Shikinami's arc a 1 to 1 copy to Vegeta's. But his is a good example of what I would go for, which is much more interesting than what we got instead.
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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby Parkagirl » Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:02 am

What would you change about Evangelion?


Speaking purely in terms of aesthetics, and disregarding any symbolic significance from the change as it appears in the TV show . . . I really love the design and orange color of Evangelion Unit-00 and would have preferred if they hadn't redesigned its structure and color scheme after the fight with Ramiel.

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby MuscleRobo » Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:07 am

Maybe just a scene where an Eva Unit sheds its armor and we see the giant of light very clearly during an action sequence. Then we could have a cool toyetic design where you could press the core like a button and the armor pops off! :lol:

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby Axx°N N. » Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:13 pm

View Original PostYTPrenewed wrote:Not too familiar with Bojack Horseman, and not too interested in familiarizing myself... the inexplicable decision to draw an ugly protagonist hardly feels like it's putting animators' time and effort to the best possible use, unless that ugliness has some plot relevance (which from other western adult animation I've seen, it often doesn't). At least Shinji is a bit more babyfaced, making his relationship with Asuka something closer, at least visually, to a kawaii dysfunctional relationship than the further-from-kawaii ones in western adult animation. (And driving home that you don't need to look like Quasimodo to feel as lonely as him.) That's part of the appeal to me of anime to me more generally. Why portray ugly drunks like Barney Gumble or Rick Sanchez when you could portray a beautiful drunk like Misato? Even outside of NGE, why portray an average-looking holier-than-thou proselytizing Christian like Ned Flanders when you could portray an adorable little holier-than-thou proselytizing Christian like Momoko Koigakubo? Are they afraid of pissing off parents by making kids think the cutesy-looking show is meant for them or something? Because so long as anime exists, it should be obvious that not everything cutesy is appropriate for kids anyway. So why not say "no more half measures" and embrace kawaii visuals across the MPAA rating spectrum? (Not that I trust an institution whose conflict of interest is literally spelled out for us...)

I feel like this post has passed through a slipstream from an alternate universe where Gendou is a hot babe and Fuyutsuki is a D cup loli.
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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby MuscleRobo » Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:07 pm

View Original PostAxx°N N. wrote:
SPOILER: Show
View Original PostYTPrenewed#937138 wrote:Not too familiar with Bojack Horseman, and not too interested in familiarizing myself... the inexplicable decision to draw an ugly protagonist hardly feels like it's putting animators' time and effort to the best possible use, unless that ugliness has some plot relevance (which from other western adult animation I've seen, it often doesn't). At least Shinji is a bit more babyfaced, making his relationship with Asuka something closer, at least visually, to a kawaii dysfunctional relationship than the further-from-kawaii ones in western adult animation. (And driving home that you don't need to look like Quasimodo to feel as lonely as him.) That's part of the appeal to me of anime to me more generally. Why portray ugly drunks like Barney Gumble or Rick Sanchez when you could portray a beautiful drunk like Misato? Even outside of NGE, why portray an average-looking holier-than-thou proselytizing Christian like Ned Flanders when you could portray an adorable little holier-than-thou proselytizing Christian like Momoko Koigakubo? Are they afraid of pissing off parents by making kids think the cutesy-looking show is meant for them or something? Because so long as anime exists, it should be obvious that not everything cutesy is appropriate for kids anyway. So why not say "no more half measures" and embrace kawaii visuals across the MPAA rating spectrum? (Not that I trust an institution whose conflict of interest is literally spelled out for us...)

I feel like this post has passed through a slipstream from an alternate universe where Gendou is a hot babe and Fuyutsuki is a D cup loli.


Fuyutsuki is cute though ...

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