Topography of the south pole

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

Moderators: Rebuild/OT Moderators, Board Staff

Forum rules
By visiting this forum, you agree to read the rules for discussion.
Jinroh
Ireul
Ireul
User avatar
Age: 38
Posts: 661
Joined: May 09, 2007
Location: Lausanne, Switzerland
Gender: Male

Topography of the south pole

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Jinroh » Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:49 am

I don't understand the scenery during the final battle. :emogendo:

The Wunder reaches the crosses, then dives into some kind of protective shield. It then goes through some kind of LCL sea, then through a swarm of infinities, and then they have to fall a long distance until they finally reach the vortex, but it's not really a vortex, and they finally reach the golgotha object we saw back in 3.33.

In 2.0, we saw the big south pole vortex from the sky, with the crosses at the center. Did the third impact change the whole place? When they reach the "hole" bellow the Wunder, is it supposed to be at sea level, or bellow sea level?

It was very confusing. :cringe:

Pluto
Tunniel
Tunniel
User avatar
Posts: 179
Joined: Aug 28, 2020
Location: Tokyo
Gender: Male

Re: Topography of the south pole

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Pluto » Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:09 am

They way I look at it, they go under the ice into a place with high L-density.
Oh, the clock is ticking out

DantesInferno
Sachiel
Sachiel
User avatar
Posts: 230
Joined: Apr 23, 2020
Gender: Male

Re: Topography of the south pole

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby DantesInferno » Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:42 pm

This has bugged me too. To recap: In 2.0, we see the rainbow rings around 2I ground-zero with a large "hole" at the center, from which the four upright crosses peek into space (side note: most of us assumed this was the "Doors of Guf" that somehow remained open since 2I, due to the visual similarity with other impact events seen onscreen; but it's just a manifestation of a string L Containment Field, and in the case of 2I it persisted likely de to its magnitude; unlike N3I and A3I, 2I was never "stopped", and it was let run its course till the end, perhaps until the four Adams burned out completely?).

But in Shin, when Nerv HQ approaches the area towing the Black Moon, we see it "touch" the rainbow rings near their very center, which doesn't have a hole (and is much smaller in scale compared to what we saw in 2.0). The rainbow rings immediately shatter into "cammouflage cocoon" hexagons upon contact, for some reason, and then we see that the crosses are still far away in the horizon, and stem from that surface the black moon is coasting.

I see two possible explanations:

1) This rainbow layer that the black moon hits in Shin is not the same one we see from space in 2.0, but one level lower. This doesn't explain why we don't see the higher layer overhead in Shin, or why both layers are "off-center" (the upper one is aligned woth the four corsses, the lower one has the crosses far in the horizon from the center of the rings).

2) The overall layout somewhat changed between 2.0 and Q/Shin, most likely due to A3I (which granted, happened far far away from 2I griund-zero, but must have been of such a magnitude as to affect the Moon itself, in outer space).

Later in the movie we do see that the L Containment Filed consists of various layers, and the boundary between the last two (when the "Nazca lines" appear) also has the appearance of concentric light rings. This is consistent with option 1) above.

nerv bae
Lilith
User avatar
Posts: 148
Joined: Sep 06, 2021
Location: USA
Gender: Male

Re: Topography of the south pole

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby nerv bae » Wed Jan 05, 2022 11:41 am

View Original PostDantesInferno wrote:But in Shin, when Nerv HQ approaches the area towing the Black Moon, we see it "touch" the rainbow rings near their very center, which doesn't have a hole (and is much smaller in scale compared to what we saw in 2.0). ... and then we see that the crosses are still far away in the horizon, and stem from that surface the black moon is coasting. ... both layers are "off-center" (the upper one is aligned woth the four corsses, the lower one has the crosses far in the horizon from the center of the rings)

Yikes, good catch, I didn't notice that Ha's and Shin's 2I rings aren't centered in the same place. Screenshots for the screenshots gods:

Ha rings  SPOILER: Show
Image
Shin rings 1  SPOILER: Show
Image
Shin rings 2  SPOILER: Show
Image

View Original PostDantesInferno wrote:2) The overall layout somewhat changed between 2.0 and Q/Shin, most likely due to A3I (which granted, happened far far away from 2I griund-zero, but must have been of such a magnitude as to affect the Moon itself, in outer space).

I like explanation #2, but for a different reason: impact rings can wobble. I can't make out a wobble in Ha's N3I, but at the end of Q's 4I we see its rings wobble around a central point:

Q wobble  SPOILER: Show
Image

On this basis we could speculate that 2I's rings over the south pole wobble too, more slowly, so that their apparent center wanders around the south pole as the years pass.

AlphaZero
Embryo
Posts: 11
Joined: Aug 04, 2020
Gender: Male

Re: Topography of the south pole

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby AlphaZero » Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:40 am

View Original Postnerv bae wrote:
Q wobble  SPOILER: Show
Image

On this basis we could speculate that 2I's rings over the south pole wobble too, more slowly, so that their apparent center wanders around the south pole as the years pass.

A bit off-topic but just noticed the infinity symbol with a circle on the top middle when the hole is covered by the gates for a frame there. It looks just like the key and 13's UI behind the pilots' backs.

andreh
Lilith
User avatar
Posts: 132
Joined: Jan 13, 2013
Gender: Male

Re: Topography of the south pole

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby andreh » Fri Jan 07, 2022 1:01 pm

I still don't understand if the Black Moon is already in the other dimension or if the area up to the "Nazca line" is still the normal dimension.

After re-entering the atmosphere, Wunder's monitor (in holographic scanner/radar/whatever mode) displays topography of the terrain from the south pole, where it should be ocean. Even the Adam crosses appears beneath the horizon line (reaching the "soil"). Apparently, the center of the portal (the "diving point" that Wunder reaches shortly after?) appears as a "sink drain" in the center of the graphics.
SPOILER: Show
Image

Also, the crosses are definitely physical objects, and each has a symbol identifying them (probably the Ultraman symbols of each Adam?). Interesting how even the fifth cross has one.
SPOILER: Show
Image
I do not speak English natively. If you see any error, blame my teacher or Google Translate LOL

DantesInferno
Sachiel
Sachiel
User avatar
Posts: 230
Joined: Apr 23, 2020
Gender: Male

Re: Topography of the south pole

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby DantesInferno » Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:47 am

View Original Postandreh wrote:I still don't understand if the Black Moon is already in the other dimension or if the area up to the "Nazca line" is still the normal dimension.


There are several sets of rainbow rings, each separating a new layer of the L Containment Field (the second layer is the one populated by inifinities).
The Calvary Base /Nazca Lines / Gates of Hell are on the ground. Antarctica is a continent/landmass (unlike the Arctic in the North Pole), so unless Second Impact melted the ground like in NGE, it makes sense that the ground is still there.

During the scene you mention, the wunder has just arrived and they are still hovering above the top-most layer, still outside the L Containment Field. At this point, Nerv HQ and the Black Moon are already in the deeper layers, that's why they can't be seen.

Hope this makes sense...


View Original Postandreh wrote:After re-entering the atmosphere, Wunder's monitor (in holographic scanner/radar/whatever mode) displays topography of the terrain from the south pole, where it should be ocean. Even the Adam crosses appears beneath the horizon line (reaching the "soil"). Apparently, the center of the portal (the "diving point" that Wunder reaches shortly after?) appears as a "sink drain" in the center of the graphics.


If you look closely at your first screenshot, there's a "sink drain" at the center, but also two other left and right.

Jinroh
Ireul
Ireul
User avatar
Age: 38
Posts: 661
Joined: May 09, 2007
Location: Lausanne, Switzerland
Gender: Male

Re: Topography of the south pole

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Jinroh » Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:01 pm

View Original PostDantesInferno wrote:
View Original Postandreh#933625 wrote:The Calvary Base /Nazca Lines / Gates of Hell are on the ground.

I think the gates of hell and the door of guf are two separate things and Calvary Base can't be on the ground, it's far too deep.

It'd go like this from top to bottom:

- Gate of Hell in Antarctica ("Border of the Underworld /Acheron" on Ritsuko's device)
- Hell (the red space)
- Door of Guf (surrounded by Nazca Lines archangel or whatever it is)
- Anti-Universe/Minus space

The whole red space (hell) can't be in our physical dimension, it's much too big. It's dozens of kilometers deep, if not more. The black moon is gigantic (it nearly reaches space) and it looks small in there.

What I don't understand is what they call Calvary base. There's no base there. Maybe the base consists of the red ships in suspension over the Door of Guf? Without knowing what happened during second impact we can only guess.

What do you guys think?

DantesInferno
Sachiel
Sachiel
User avatar
Posts: 230
Joined: Apr 23, 2020
Gender: Male

Re: Topography of the south pole

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby DantesInferno » Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:18 pm

View Original PostJinroh wrote:
View Original PostDantesInferno#933709 wrote:

I think the gates of hell and the door of guf are two separate things and Calvary Base can't be on the ground, it's far too deep.


Maybe that all is underground, or at least below ground level, but if the so-called Gates of Hell are the glowing purple hole at the center of the Nazca lines, it does indeed turn into the Doors of Guf when implaed by the Black Moon spear (at least it is refered to as such in Ritsuko's mobile terminal).

What do you make of the Katuragi expedition ships floating just below Nerv HQ?

Jinroh
Ireul
Ireul
User avatar
Age: 38
Posts: 661
Joined: May 09, 2007
Location: Lausanne, Switzerland
Gender: Male

Re: Topography of the south pole

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Jinroh » Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:43 am

I don't think it's underground; between the ship dive, the evas freefall and the size of the black moon, this place could be anywhere between 100 and 300 km deep. It's so deep that it couldn't reasonably be locatel in normal space.

Also it's right at the center of the vortex (the gate of hell?) that we see in 2.0, and from which the crosses seem to emerge. The problem is that I don't see what this place is useful for, since the door of guf is accessible in the sky each time there's an impact.

As for the ships, no idea. But they probably belond to the Katsuragi expedition whose staff may have turned to core during the impact...

nerv bae
Lilith
User avatar
Posts: 148
Joined: Sep 06, 2021
Location: USA
Gender: Male

Re: Topography of the south pole

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby nerv bae » Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:13 am

View Original PostJinroh wrote:What I don't understand is what they call Calvary base. There's no base there. Maybe the base consists of the red ships in suspension over the Door of Guf? Without knowing what happened during second impact we can only guess.
DantesInferno wrote:What do you make of the Katuragi expedition ships floating just below Nerv HQ?
Jinroh wrote:As for the ships, no idea. But they probably belond to the Katsuragi expedition whose staff may have turned to core during the impact...

Here's a topic where we got into shipchat recently. If Bethany Base in Ha can be a few ships floating in the water around Tunniel jail, then I figure Calvary Base in Shin can be a few ships of similar class floating in the air:

Bethany Base  SPOILER: Show
ImageImage
Calvary Base  SPOILER: Show
Image

Jinroh
Ireul
Ireul
User avatar
Age: 38
Posts: 661
Joined: May 09, 2007
Location: Lausanne, Switzerland
Gender: Male

Re: Topography of the south pole

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Jinroh » Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:01 pm

Yeah that's probably it.

Anyway, I rewatched a part of shin, and they called the door of guf the gates of hell, so I'm a bit confused. I thought it referenced the antarctica "portal" that seemed to have stayed open after the second impact and from which the four crosses emerge in 2.0.

There's something I'm thinking about, is the whole red place engulfed in LCL? After all they dive into a LCL sea and it's very light and breathable in eva units. It might explain why that place could be so big and not subject to an insane pressure that would destroy everything going that deep.

DantesInferno
Sachiel
Sachiel
User avatar
Posts: 230
Joined: Apr 23, 2020
Gender: Male

Re: Topography of the south pole

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby DantesInferno » Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:45 pm

View Original Postnerv bae wrote:Here's a topic where we got into shipchat recently. If Bethany Base in Ha can be a few ships floating in the water around Tunniel jail, then I figure Calvary Base in Shin can be a few ships of similar class floating in the air:


It's a nice analogy between both bases/poles of the Earth, but (at least up until 2I) Antarctica is a landmass. So whether it's the Katsuragi Expedition or Calvary base (most likely the base was set up by the expedition, to serve as a base for their research), I'm having a hard time understanding what the ships would be doing there, unless the whole thing occurred near the coast, quite far away from the actual South Pole.

View Original PostJinroh wrote:Yeah that's probably it.

Anyway, I rewatched a part of shin, and they called the door of guf the gates of hell, so I'm a bit confused. I thought it referenced the antarctica "portal" that seemed to have stayed open after the second impact and from which the four crosses emerge in 2.0.


I think the purple glowing circle is the "Gates of Hell", and it only turns into the doors of Guf after the spear pierces it, for whatever reason. No idea how the whole thing is supposed to have started though, but the most likely possibility seems to be that the Katsuragi expedition found the Adams, 6 spears, and the Golgotha object all buried in Antarctica, here in our dimension (not negative space), much like the Adam of NGE (this explains how Yui could "too have been there"). And then, as a consequence of whatever experiments they conducted,

1. Four spears were "used up" (i.e., lost)
2. Four Adams awakened, and were ultimately consummed completely (died)
3. A portal to negative space was opened (call it what you will, Doors of Guf, Gates of Hell, etc.) and swallowed the Golgotha object.
4. Of the remaining two spears, one was blown all the way to the Moon. Seele built Mark.06 there so they could retrieve it / bring it back to Earth.
5. The 5th, central Adams survived (and was later retrofitted as Eva-13)

View Original PostJinroh wrote:There's something I'm thinking about, is the whole red place engulfed in LCL? After all they dive into a LCL sea and it's very light and breathable in eva units. It might explain why that place could be so big and not subject to an insane pressure that would destroy everything going that deep.


I don't think they "dive into LCL"; rather, it's inside the L containment field. A region of space where matter turns into core, lilim turn into LCL, and some antigravity shenanigans happen (like the stuff floating outside Village-3, or the debris during N3I). The Wille crew are OK because of the anti-L field (hex pillar) tech they carry on board (and "Kaji's info" ). Takao mentions this when they first approach the upper surface.

Jinroh
Ireul
Ireul
User avatar
Age: 38
Posts: 661
Joined: May 09, 2007
Location: Lausanne, Switzerland
Gender: Male

Re: Topography of the south pole

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Jinroh » Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:17 pm

Hmm... in all cases when Misato (or Ritsuko, not sure) calls it the gates of hell, she says it's somewhat already open, and it's way before the spears fall into it.

From what I understand the spears only start the impact (the release of the purple infinities), it doesn't open the gate. That might explain how Yui & co went in there and interacted with the Golgotha object.

It feels like there's two movies left of material to explore; one covering the foundation of Nerve, Seele, etc. and the second impact, and one covering third impact and the time skip. There's just so much material "missing", and I never had that feeling with the original show, even if some plot points were kept secret.

DantesInferno
Sachiel
Sachiel
User avatar
Posts: 230
Joined: Apr 23, 2020
Gender: Male

Re: Topography of the south pole

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby DantesInferno » Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:28 pm

View Original PostJinroh wrote:Hmm... in all cases when Misato (or Ritsuko, not sure) calls it the gates of hell, she says it's somewhat already open, and it's way before the spears fall into it.

From what I understand the spears only start the impact (the release of the purple infinities), it doesn't open the gate. That might explain how Yui & co went in there and interacted with the Golgotha object.


Misato mentions that "The Gates of Hell are open again" when they first reach the scene. Later, the opening is referred tovas the Doors of Guf in Ritsuko's mobile terminal/PDA. That the spears caused the Doors of Guf to open is my assumption, of course.


View Original PostJinroh wrote:It feels like there's two movies left of material to explore; one covering the foundation of Nerve, Seele, etc. and the second impact, and one covering third impact and the time skip. There's just so much material "missing", and I never had that feeling with the original show, even if some plot points were kept secret.


I totally agree with that. I feel that we can somehow piece together what happened/must have happened during the timeskip (including A3I), because we have seen both the before and after (and also the split-second flashback in 3.0+1.0), even if we can't know all the nitty-gritty details. But for Second Impact, we only know the aftermath. We don't even know what they went to do there in the first place, or why.

Regarding Gendo's "Your mother, my wife, was here too" line, one theory I've seen mentioned in a Japanese video is that Yui, trapped inside Eva-01 after the events of EoE, eventually reached the Golgotha object and reset the universe into the next iteration of "the loop" (with the objective that Shinji truly becomes happy and overcomes his issues this time), and thus from the perspective of NTE, she is God. This idea triggers a lot of new questions, of course.


Return to “Rebuild of Evangelion Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest