So I should go ahead and watch the Rebuilds right?

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So I should go ahead and watch the Rebuilds right?

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Postby OutlawThirds » Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:15 pm

They good? Not going to ruin my life? I was thinking I'd give them time, but I might not ever be more excited about Eva than I am now, so I might as well maximize enjoyment right? Think I can get away with having watched the full series between 1.x and 2.x or do I need to rewatch 1.x again?

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Re: So I should go ahead and watch the Rebuilds right?

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Postby kuribo-04 » Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:50 pm

Opinions will vary. I think they are amazing, and 3.0 and Shin are masterpieces IMO.
For what it's worth, Shin Eva is one of the most succesful Japanese films of all time. So at the very least they are extremely popular, probably already worth checking out just for that.

They're definitely not going to ruin your life lol.

If you remember the small differences in 1.0 I'd say you can watch 2.0.
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Re: So I should go ahead and watch the Rebuilds right?

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Postby ::KL7:: » Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:53 pm

Honestly, they are definitely worth watching. I started with Evangelion 2.22 and actually enjoy the rebuilds more than the original series and feel they are on par with EoE. They are visually stunning and the angel fights are amazing. The story starts diverging from original NGE but I thought that was awesome as it opened all kind of possibilities going forward. I can see how some people could dislike 3 and 3+1 but I think as an Eva fan you have to watch it through at least once. Just my opinion, but if you do, I look forward to your thoughts on them.
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Re: So I should go ahead and watch the Rebuilds right?

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Postby Blockio » Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:23 pm

I quite agree. NTE (Rebuild) is different, but not a bad kind of different; on the whole I think I still enjoy NGE+EoE more, but Ha (2.0) is one of my most rewatched movies on the grounds of how fun it is and Shin especially is nothing short of a masterpiece.
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Re: So I should go ahead and watch the Rebuilds right?

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Postby BernardoCairo » Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:44 pm

Is it good? Is it bad? That's up to you. Watch them to form your own opinion.
Right now, I couldn't care any less about them. Not really the reason I'm an Evangelion fan, even if I don't hate the movies, per say.
In fact, I like a lot about them. It's complicated.
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Re: So I should go ahead and watch the Rebuilds right?

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Postby Axx°N N. » Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:50 pm

They don't hold a candle to the originals for me, and if I had immediately watched them after NGE&EoE, I would retroactively wish I hadn't and had basked in the glow a bit longer. There's a lot to unpack in the old material, anyway; why not explore that first? Everyone else did.

Whether or not you'll like or dislike the Rebuilds relies on what it is exactly you value in the old material. Certain things are absent or amplified. They're not only tonally different, they have a completely alternate approach to pacing, kinesthetics and character development. So, really, it's a dice roll.
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Re: So I should go ahead and watch the Rebuilds right?

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Postby kuribo-04 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:15 pm

View Original PostAxx°N N. wrote: if I had immediately watched them after NGE&EoE, I would retroactively wish I hadn't and had basked in the glow a bit longer.

I honestly don't see why watching them right after would be an issue. It's not like the original will gonaway or be undone.
But I also think very highly of the Rebuilds, so...
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Re: So I should go ahead and watch the Rebuilds right?

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Postby Axx°N N. » Mon Nov 29, 2021 2:26 pm

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:I honestly don't see why watching them right after would be an issue. It's not like the original will gonaway or be undone.
But I also think very highly of the Rebuilds, so...

Well, it's simple. I love the originals, watching them was pleasant. I didn't like the Rebuilds, watching them was unpleasant. And seeing characters and themes I once liked handled in a new way I didn't, doesn't undo anything, you're right, but it does effect my experience, if only to remind me of the existence of them and of my disappointment. I can't completely unwed these repetitions and alternate versions of things in my head, especially given how self-referential Rebuild is, and I'm glad I had many years to not be deeply disappointed by Eva and feel only respect for Anno. I wish I could watch the Asuka vs. MPE fight in EoE and feel only impressed, instead of also, on some vague and distant level, comparing it internally to the much, much worse parallel in Thrice, and feeling not only disappointment, but agitation and confusion. That's just my personal feelings.

Naturally, if I were recommending a director I like, I'd list their films in order of which I think are essential down to which I think are disappoiting or failures. In that way, I'd suggest OP watch Gunbuster if they haven't first instead of feeling obligated to watch the Rebuilds. Or really, anything Gainax post-Nadia but pre-Diebuster, as I feel they're more similar than Rebuild is to what was good about the originals.
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Re: So I should go ahead and watch the Rebuilds right?

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Postby kuribo-04 » Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:14 am

Well but neither us nor OP know how he'll like the Rebuilds, so I don't think there's anything speaking against just watching them if they feel like doing so.
I wouldn't base that recommendation on my own opinion. Tbh they should just watch it if they feel the urge, that's how you should go about most things IMO.

I think Rebuild is better than Gunbuster too btw. It's fine that you think differently on Rebuild obviously, but just goes to show none of this is set in stone.

I wish I could watch the Asuka vs. MPE fight in EoE and feel only impressed, instead of also, on some vague and distant level, comparing it internally to the much, much worse parallel in Thrice

Putting this in spoilers, but if you mean
SPOILER: Show
the scene of Asuka and Mari descending to Nerv HQ while fighting that enormous wave of Evas

I think that's a 10/10 action scene, and really wasn't trying do the same as the MP Eva fight, with
SPOILER: Show
the EoE fight being a complete downer of a scene, driving home the inevitability of the tragedy that will befall the character(s) no matter how hard Asuka tries, and animated with a sense of realism to make it more crude.


Meanwhile the Shin Eva scene
SPOILER: Show
is sort of Asuka's moment to shine after she got her feelings towards Shinji off her chest, she got to grow up and become an adult in a way she never did in NGE. If there's anything that reminds me of the MP Evas it's Eva-13 consuming her, but the free fall action scene is meant to be a celebratory spectacle, with its over the top nature just foreshadowing the increasingly abstract nature of the plot (like...who built all those Evas lol).
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Re: So I should go ahead and watch the Rebuilds right?

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Postby EvaChero » Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:00 pm

The Rebuilds are very much worth watching...but have a very different feel to me. Not bad just different. Personally after digesting a while and doing a re-watch of both I have to say I prefer NGE/EOE ....but there are aspects of Rebuild that I like better...(of course the animation....music/sound quality, although I have say my new NGE Blu - rays have OUTSTANDING sound quality...very impressive!) I think the character development and tragedy of NGE/EOE is what tips the balance for me...it's a very subjective thing though, Your Mileage May Vary as they say.
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Re: So I should go ahead and watch the Rebuilds right?

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Postby Axx°N N. » Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:58 pm

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:Well but neither us nor OP know how he'll like the Rebuilds, so I don't think there's anything speaking against just watching them if they feel like doing so.

Their feeling on doing so is ambivalent, hence asking in the first place.

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:Putting this in spoilers, but if you mean
SPOILER: Show
the scene of Asuka and Mari descending to Nerv HQ while fighting that enormous wave of Evas

I think that's a 10/10 action scene, and really wasn't trying do the same as the MP Eva fight, with
SPOILER: Show
the EoE fight being a complete downer of a scene, driving home the inevitability of the tragedy that will befall the character(s) no matter how hard Asuka tries, and animated with a sense of realism to make it more crude.


Meanwhile the Shin Eva scene
SPOILER: Show
is sort of Asuka's moment to shine after she got her feelings towards Shinji off her chest, she got to grow up and become an adult in a way she never did in NGE. If there's anything that reminds me of the MP Evas it's Eva-13 consuming her, but the free fall action scene is meant to be a celebratory spectacle, with its over the top nature just foreshadowing the increasingly abstract nature of the plot (like...who built all those Evas lol).

I meant both. Is that what the tone of that scene was supposed to be? Because to me it just made my eyes glaze over.
SPOILER: Show
What am I supposed to feel when I watch minutes of mindless sniping of a billion-fold horde of enemies? It's like watching someone play a video game. Not to mention that it's a pale imitation of the pathos of the EoE fight; the enemies go down like dominoes until they don't for shock value, but it happens so fast in Shin and it feels so old hat that I can't take it seriously; I can recognize they want me to feel shock, but it feels too much like the script is going through the motions to get there instead of really having a sense of earned emotion.

It's not so much the storytelling of those action scenes, my dislike is more on the technical side. The EoE fight scene has an incredible sense of weight, and you can't just chalk it up to that scene having a stronger realism than before, which it does, because almost all the fight scenes from the old material feel more grounded and more tangible to me than the Rebuilds, Zeruel being an obvious one to me. Everything in Shin feels floaty and like models flying around, or like someone crashing a bunch of toy figurines together. I've seen excuses for certain scenes having that feeling, that it's supposed to be an homage to Tokusatsu--but as someone who watches a lot of Tokusatsu, if that was the intention, it failed spectacularly. Tokusatsu relies on insane levels of detail to try to impress some sort of realism, but the models in Thrice are simplistic and untextured. Tokusatsu also, naturally, has way more of a concrete feeling because they're real tangible objects, whereas Thrice's moments of mocap, whether it's Asuka force-feeding Shinji or the 01 vs 13 fight, just feels gravity-less.

I don't mind a lot of the story & character changes that occur in 1.0 & 2.0 conceptually, I don't inherently dislike the idea of a timeskip, and there are tonal things in Thrice that, theoretically, I could see being executed well. I even dig a lot of the new designs and enjoy combing through the design & artbooks. But the pacing and narrative flow doesn't sell any of it and bungles the new ideas. The direction simply doesn't know how to slow down, how to give anything weight or impact, characters don't have the lines and focus necesarry to sell their various twists and turns. And then there's things I think were just outright bad ideas, like Gendo being behind every single turn of the plot. What am I supposed to feel when he begins ranting about everything going according to his increasingly convoluted plan? It's not compelling in any way whatsoever, compared to when he suffered regular setbacks and desperation.


But I'm going to end this here and jump ship from the topic. I don't appreciate how it feels that every time someone has something negative to say about Rebuild, they get pressed, but no one who says how excellent they were has someone attempting to give their opinion serious rebuttals. This is my opinion, and I wanted to say my piece and leave it at that, just like everyone else.

Edits: spelling/grammar
Last edited by Axx°N N. on Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:57 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: So I should go ahead and watch the Rebuilds right?

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Postby Blockio » Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:09 pm

Alright folks, let's cut this here. This question was about if the Rebuilds are worth watching, not how good they are. We have threads for that, don't drag this topic over everywhere else.
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Re: So I should go ahead and watch the Rebuilds right?

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Postby BernardoCairo » Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:05 pm

I agree with you, AXX. I wouldn't watch NTE right after finishing NGE.
Imagine eating at a steakhouse. In fact, it's the best steakhouse you've ever eaten. You wouldn't want to eat at McDonald's right after. It's not that you necessarily hate McDonald's. You just want to take the time to truly enjoy your excellent meal and you don't want to overwhelm your own body.
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Re: So I should go ahead and watch the Rebuilds right?

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Postby IronEvangelion » Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:12 am

They're definitely worth a watch, just don't expect them to be like NGE as they're very much their own thing. Especially from the end of 2.0 onward.

Having rewatched both series recently, my current opinion is this: NGE has inferior animation but much better storytelling and coherence, while the Rebuilds have beautiful animation (3.0 in particular is a visual feast) but have weaker storytelling, and are borderline incoherent with each other. The "next movie" previews in the Rebuilds don't even match up with the next movie. Certain universal laws like how impacts are triggered become so muddled in the Rebuilds that it's impossible to determine how magic works in the Rebuild universe.

I consider NGE to be the "true gospel" of the franchise, and the Rebuilds to be apocrypha. I watch the former when I want a meaningful story, and the latter when I just want to see some beautiful action sequences. They balance each other out that way.
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Re: So I should go ahead and watch the Rebuilds right?

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Postby Mr. Tines » Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:01 am

View Original PostOutlawThirds wrote:so I might as well maximize enjoyment right?
It truly depends on what you enjoyed and in what order you watched already, I guess. When I watched 1.01, it was a fair while since I'd seen the series, and was mainly wowed by the big budget graphics in the last battle; but something about the 2.0 trailers -- including, but not limited to the Gerry Anderson spaceships -- killed the hype for me as dead as Jar Jar's dialog in the Phantom Menace trailer did for that franchise.

I will say that watching episodes 1-6 then 1.whatever is an interesting exercise in contrasts, and may be sufficient to base a decision upon.
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Postby OutlawThirds » Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:25 pm

Thanks all. I watched 2.x. As far as I can tell, my life is not ruined. Will watch the rest in due time.

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Re: So I should go ahead and watch the Rebuilds right?

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Postby Axx°N N. » Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:47 pm

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:but something about the 2.0 trailers -- including, but not limited to the Gerry Anderson spaceships -- killed the hype for me as dead as Jar Jar's dialog in the Phantom Menace trailer did for that franchise.

Mine is pretty similar; five minutes into 2.0 when the car spins around on pavement like it were ice.

View Original PostOutlawThirds wrote:Thanks all. I watched 2.x. As far as I can tell, my life is not ruined. Will watch the rest in due time.

I'd love to hear your impressions!
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Re: So I should go ahead and watch the Rebuilds right?

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Postby pwhodges » Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:45 am

View Original PostOutlawThirds wrote:Thanks all. I watched 2.x. As far as I can tell, my life is not ruined. Will watch the rest in due time.

The big hit is yet to come...
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Re: So I should go ahead and watch the Rebuilds right?

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Postby kuribo-04 » Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:35 pm

Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
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Postby OutlawThirds » Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:49 pm

View Original PostAxx°N N. wrote:I'd love to hear your impressions!

1.x was a decent retelling, took a while to get used to the different voas, transforming Ramiel was awesome, but I categorically enjoy CGI less than hand drawn animation.

2.x.was an interesting take, it had 'healed' versions of several scenes where the characters act out the same stuff but in a less pitch-black context or change how they act. It seems like everyone got a second chance at some of their worst moments. The redo of the elevator scene felt great.

In fact, giving Rei more agency was great too. Her ill fated charge against Zuriel in the original is just absolutely depressing-sure, it comes from a place of heroism, but also a self destructive drive. The line where she says she's doing it to avoid Shinji being forced to pilot again... that was heartwarming/breaking. She just got a whole lot of development in this one. The moment where she tells Unit 02 to stand back before she blows it was a little touch of professionalism that really sold the character.

They took a lot of screentime away from Asuka though. Maybe we'll see her more in the next film. She has a bit of an arc but a lot of her scenes from the show are given to Mari. Maybe we'll see her more in the next film. She got her healing moment in EoE in a way no other character really did, so I see why they gave her a touch less. Having Shinji squash her her instead of Toji was an interesting decision. Good for Toji at least, and they even lampshaded it which I loved.

Mari was... a thing. Having one character who seems to be a fully functional person in control and of themselves helps disperse The Show's feeling that the wheels have come off and nobody is in charge.

I liked that they made Shinji a bit less grim, and they give him more agency which is always good. The arc of him being forced to squish Asuka and then, not wanting to lose another friend, going flat out to save Rei was cool and made him a more active character. I still liked the faces and animation from the original Zuriel fight better though. Eva shows Shinji fighting Zuriel with his face a mask of twisted glee, I didn't see them draw it like that this time. He's not thrilled so much as determined. I wonder if having a 400% sync rate was letting some Yui-the-bloodthirsty-berserker into Shinji there, or if that was just his pent up anger at everything else... but I digress)

Anywho, I'm apparently really in for it in the next movie. So far I appreciate that it's pulling punches compared to the show and trying to make the story less grimdark. It's author-written feel good fanfic. I'm hoping it'll help me get over the soul-thrashing of Eva + EoE

(Ok, changed them to hide tags. --Ed)
Last edited by OutlawThirds on Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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