What would you change about Evangelion?

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby Blockio » Mon May 24, 2021 10:29 am

I quite agree, especially to the last two. Those are vital to showing just how bad it was, and getting rid of them would just diminish the impact that EoE has on the whole.
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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby elonmuskito » Mon May 24, 2021 2:29 pm

I love Eva. It’s my favorite anime of all time. But you see Shinzo go through all this stuff and I feel lIke he never grows. I understand that it all builds up to row but having him get a bit bolder could have better his relationship with ausuka. (Sorry if I spelled her name wrong)

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby caser713 » Mon May 24, 2021 9:24 pm

Nah, that scene is absolutely vital on top of being one of the most iconic and memorable scenes in the series. I'm pretty sure most people who watched the film would agree that its inclusion is important. It's obviously disturbing, but that doesn't mean it's bad or unimportant. I really don't see how it puts a stain on the series (well, aside from the unfortunate phrasing).


Oh shit I didn't think about the phrasing LMAO, but yeah I can totally see where you're coming from! I mean obviously, it left a pretty bad taste in my mouth but that's the point of the scene after all. Personally, I wouldn't miss it if it wasn't there, but I can definitely see its importance to the series. It's hard seeing your favorite characters exhibit destructive traits in a way that actually harms others.
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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby baldur » Tue May 25, 2021 2:17 am

View Original Postcaser713 wrote: It's hard seeing your favorite characters exhibit destructive traits in a way that actually harms others.

It definitely is, but that's one of those things that I've come to appreciate about the series more and more. I like when stories allow characters to have flaws. Real flaws. The truth is that we all have a side that we keep hidden to others, that we're ashamed of, that we might even be frightened by. All of us are capable of harm. I appreciate when the implications of this are truly acknowledged. Because the truth is, when people are at their lowest point, they might become a danger to others. No matter who it is, likable or not. And that doesn't mean that humanity is bad or irredeemable. Or that life isn't worth living. We're all just trying to make our way. And sometimes we harm each other, but we also help each other sometimes. That's what I take away from Eva.

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby caser713 » Tue May 25, 2021 5:24 pm

I agree :-) honestly looking through this topic has changed my opinion on the hospital scene, although I still have mixed feelings about the Misato kiss scene- I wish her breakdown had manifested in some way other than being predatory :/ Despite the whole "despair" theme, it would've been nice to see her grow before the end
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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby Sefirot Tree Of Life » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:16 pm

There's a lot of things I would personally change, but at that point I'd just be describing a fanfic.

No Rebuilds, no Mari.
“Anywhere can be paradise as long as you have the will to live. After all, you are alive, so you will always have the chance to be happy. As long as the Sun, the Moon, and the Earth exist, everything will be all right.”

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby Xenoblade » Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:57 pm

I'd have done the Rebuilds as well, just with no Mari. Yeah, she's there as a marketing vehicle, but all the same I don't consider it a risky move to remove her. I don't see why Misato merchandise with glasses couldn't satisfy the demographic left out. ^_^

I'd also "skip" the time skip. It's not bad or lazy, but it's so common in media that it's almost more brave to....not skip 14 years.
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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby Sefirot Tree Of Life » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:07 am

View Original PostXenoblade wrote:I don't see why Misato merchandise with glasses couldn't satisfy the demographic left out. ^_^


This is what I can never forgive Anno for. There is no reason to make Mari (As she creates a lot of plot holes and broke the story, but that’s a different topic) because fan service wise, Misato does “fan service” much better:

Mari is still 17 (I think, correct me if I’m wrong) so Anno is still profiting off the sexualization of minors as he supposedly criticizes it.

Misato in the original series, I wouldn’t say she was DEFINED by fan service, but it was featured prominently with her in a far more tasteful way. Like her attitude towards Shinji (Which was actually a cheerful mask to help bring him out of his shell, which immediately has more depth then Mari) Misato at the end of each episode dramatically talking about what would happen next while promising plenty of fan service~, Misato having just a plain lot of better moments (Jet Alone, her times at the apartment, when she saves Shinji) Misato is just a much better character, in my opinion a much more attractive character, and her sexuality is a major part of her, but doesn’t completely define her. I’m not going to go as far as to say it’s tastefully done and very high iq, but Misato is treated with respect by the writing and by the fans, and imo she’s a lot prettier. She should have been the designated merch doujin waifu, but instead we get Mari, who in every single piece of merch and art I’ve ever seen, basically just does what Misato does (Especially when paired up with Asuka and Shinji) so Mari just strikes me as completely inferior and unnecessary in every single way.

Heck, they could have just stuffed Hikari in a plugsuit, given her glasses, and did the generic moe embarrassed blushing anime girl crap, it still would have been more tasteful and character driven then Mari.
“Anywhere can be paradise as long as you have the will to live. After all, you are alive, so you will always have the chance to be happy. As long as the Sun, the Moon, and the Earth exist, everything will be all right.”

"Maybe, I could love myself. Maybe, my life could have a greater value. That's right! I am no more or less then myself! I am me! I want to be myself! I want to continue existing in this world! My life is worth living here!"

"Congratulations!"

"Thank you all!"

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Postby Argent1995 » Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:49 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:
View Original PostKatana#620986 wrote:I would delete that useless Jet Alone's episode.

Hey, it wasn't totally useless. It got to demonstrate Nerv's hand getting to shut down whatever displeases it. And it was kinda funny. :tongue:


Also it showed Misato as someone who is very much willing to put her money where her mouth is. She had zero issues getting in the thick of it casually risking her life, when she can actually achieve something (or believes that to be the case).

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby EvaUnit88 » Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:11 pm

Well here's my choices:

Try to use more original animation. As much as I would have liked less reliance on reusing footage through the series, I'm not sure how easily it could have been done back then. Reusing animation was a big practice in the 90s and I don't know if the budget could have been so substantially increased that it would have prevented using that practice.

Make Kaworu's death more apparently necessary. It's pretty easy to point out that Kaworu could have just decided not to go on with his mission if his offer of friendship to Shinji was genuine. Another approach would have been making it more apparent to the audience that Kaworu was planning to screw with Shinji just without making it immediate to Shinji himself. This way it won't lose the dramatic effect of the original scene and it would still work as a plan because then he'd be more of an Angel that way.

Just have Toji die. He doesn't even have much of a presence throughout the rest of the story after his injury and his deleted scene from EoE wouldn't have worked with the rest of the movie. His death would even add more to Shinji's rebelliousness after it happened.

Utilize the screen time from the first half of episode 14. I know it was pretty much unavoidable to have a recap episode in the 90s, but I honestly would have preferred a bridge crew episode over the recap portion and just have their story somehow weave into its remainder. No idea how it would work, but I like to think it could have somehow.

Just in general, more episodes. Probably the biggest pipe dream out of it all and probably the most dangerous to chose out of them all since it would probably fill the show with a bunch of pointless filler and possibly weaker animation. I just never seem to get through my head that it can be possible to have too much of a good thing but I just don't seem to be able to fully recognize when it can happen. Ideally I like to think that Hideaki Anno and the others could have pulled off great stuff, but for all I know would risk contradicting a lot of what the show set up prior.

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby Concerns » Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:55 am

Get rid of fan service.
I'm just some random guy who loves Evangelion.

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby orcot » Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:36 pm

View Original PostConcerns wrote:Get rid of fan service.

are you suggesting to get rid of anno?

Anyway do you think a more raven like Rei would work?
https://theteentitans.fandom.com/wiki/Raven?file=Raven.jpg
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fmemestatic.fjcdn.com%2Fpictures%2FJoyous%2Bspiteful%2Bmonkey_6e6dec_7208834.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fchristian-schnell.info%2Fphoto%2Fsomeone-who-is-spiteful.htm&tbnid=Wsp-RsSAOxDaHM&vet=12ahUKEwjMpZbfqcryAhVM_qQKHcbjAWEQMygAegQIARB-..i&docid=W8AUDrJPQqS-JM&w=1200&h=1200&itg=1&q=teen%20titans%20raven%20demon&hl=en-BE&ved=2ahUKEwjMpZbfqcryAhVM_qQKHcbjAWEQMygAegQIARB-
arguable more haunty more creepy but surrounding artwork can still be pretty.
It would be weird to have a more snarky Rei

(anyone seen teen titans? it was a pretty good show (not the teen titans go, the one from 2003)
Last edited by orcot on Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby Concerns » Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:39 pm

View Original Postorcot wrote:
View Original PostConcerns#929984 wrote:Get rid of fan service.

are you suggesting to get rid of anno?


I never said that, I would simply get rid of sexualization of minors, that's all.
I'm just some random guy who loves Evangelion.

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby orcot » Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:46 pm

View Original PostConcerns wrote:I never said that, I would simply get rid of sexualization of minors, that's all.


Okay it was sort of a joke but anno likes that stuff verry much, it features prominently in his work and this things he approves (
Neon Genesis Evangelion: Shinji Ikari Raising Project)

but I do agree with you

PS I always liked the idea from the manga that Rei could just walk up to unit 01 and talk to Yui and Yui would actualy coherently answer back trough some telepathic means.(she wasn't even wearing her ??sync muffs/sync horns/sync clips?? do they have a name?


one take to make Rei's I death sadder, would be a small back in time part where it's revealed Rei is already inside unit 01 and is supposed to be the interface between it and Yui.
With Yui discussing with Naoko (akagi) how to split the soul to make it more obedient like she did with her MAGI.
All the while Naoko argues against it and insist Yui names the soul something else then dummy.
When Naoko misspoke her name as dummy when she first see's Rei and being visuably uncomfortable.

I would also change Naoko akagi name to Ritsuki Akagi
The last name because because we are allready doing this with Shinji and Gendo (gendo's last name is Rokubung). In their case it shows how both characters are still connected to Yui (ikari). With Ritsuki (akagi) and her mom theirs nothing but sepperation.

The first name because it symbolizes the daughter to get out of her mom's shadow. Also Gendo calling her Ritsuki calling her by her first name should sting a bit considering he previously had a relation with her mom. It would also give Rei II a option for some name calling

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby orcot » Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:00 am

Some PC changes

Episode 5-6 seems interesting Ramiel the blue diamond.

in a recap of episode 5 (we see the failed activation test of 00; Gendo getting burned; 5 minutes in Shinji is informed that the test failed because of Rei's mental state, Shinji and the class stare a bit at Rei, Shinji Misato and ritsuko eat (bad food), Shinji is ordered to give Rei her new acces pass (he knows she is suposed to do a new activation test). He trespasses into Rei's appartment, Shinji falls on top of a naked Rei, Shinji sort of stalks Rei following her, Shinji exposes Rei to technical problems (the acces card yeah he told her but it didn't sink trough so at this time it's sort of fair this is atempted murder as she is in no state to try to activate her eva), Shinji reminds her that she got injured in her last test and that he has no faith in his dad's ability to keep her safe, he get's slapped by Rei, Rei preps for her activation test, Rei passes her test, Ramiel arrives, (Rei Is relieved) Shinji get's hit by Ramiel).

I think the boxes being ticked her are: Rei is weird, Rei has emotions but can't properly express them, falling on top of a naked person would be a incredibly awkward situation that would definitly not result in getting romantic. (also Shinji's later reaction when he enters Rei's aparment again with Toji saying it's fine makes me hate Shinji).



For episode 5 The main difference would be that Shinji never trepasses the apartment to begin with. Shinji is simply asked to be on stand by whilst Rei does her activation test; the prep room is a recycled Rei's apartment a room without decoderation. Theirs a curtain seperating the 2 to get dressed, because Rei's mental state was a factor during the first test Rei is equipted with a heart rate monitor (this synchs nice with Shinji carcdiac arrest in the start of the next episode). Shinji still has his discussion with Rei see's Rei's glasses he still falls on her, whilst Rei sort of behaves in the same way the heart monitor betrays her as the point of Rei is that she does has emotions but can't express them.

in a recap of episode 6 Shinji's brainwaves are unstable Shinji get's a unstable heart rate and needs to be defibrillated, Rei rips a roof of (presumably for comedic value) but it's suggested that she is the one who took the positron cannon and installed in ontop of the hill, it is decided that Shinji is the one who will take the shot eventough he is in a comma had unstable brainwaves and needed to be defibrillated, Meanwhile Rei is ordered to give him a sandwich (she herself does not get food), Rei enters Shinji hospital room and a very convenient time, Shinji exposes himself to Rei,Shinji complains, Rei suggest she would pilot unit 1. Shinji decides offscreen to pilot the eva.

for episode 6 the main difference would be that unit 00 would be missing a arm and therefore can not take the shot in stead of relying on someone who is in a comma at the time to take the shot. The positron rifle is delivered on a train without ripping any roof ofs. Given that the operation will happen at midnight Rei is ordered to get some sleep and this is the reason that she is at the hospital in Shinji's room. A scene can be added that in episode 5 Rei left all her clothes on the floor and Shinji folded them for Rei to find them in episode 6. Rei retrieved Shinji's clothes in a bag when she returned. When she removed the clothes in the hospital their all crooked and she folds them Shinji, wakes up and calls her mom instead of Ayanami like he did in the manga.
Alternativly in a not PC fashion, Rei enters the hospital room to get some sleep Shinji is under a thin blanket with a erection, Rei tries to lower the tent by pressing on it but it pops right back up, so she decides to put a heavy blanket on him, Shinji wakes up, Rei tells him he looked cold (lies) is brutaly honnest or changes the subject (I prefer that option).
Theirs dinner for 2 in the room.

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby IronEvangelion » Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:18 pm

After re-watching the series on blu-ray, I feel like updating my older post I made in this thread 7 years ago. There's plenty more I'd change now.

Basic outline of my changes:
- NGE takes place in 2018 instead of 2015. This would make all of the pilots at least 16 and remove a lot of the painful awkwardness from the fanservice. Character designs would be updated to reflect the age change.
- Add at least another 12 episodes to make room for new pilots, angels, evas, etc.
- Dummy Plugs are now called Autopilots, the old name was just stupid.
- All pilot and NERV staff housing is now located within the Geofront itself, instead of on the surface. Having everyone housed on the surface was just a bad idea.
- There were actually two species of humans living on earth: Adams, and Lilin. When Adam's impact was initiated, all humans who had descended from him were wiped out, including the semitic and arabic tribes. Lilin were unharmed because they were descended from a different god and thus incompatible with Second Impact.
- Angels are not born of Adam, they are special beings designed to forcibly initiate impacts before humanity can discover metaphysical biology. They are the Fermi Barrier.
- What humans call First Impact took place on Mars in 2,300 BC and was observed by ancient astrologers on Earth. Though unable to see it clearly, they did observe the newborn god depart the planet. This legend would eventually form the basis of Roman theology.
- Progenitor deities are actually very primitive life forms. They have no brain, bones, or organs and are basically vaguely humanoid masses of quivering god cells equipped with an S2 organ to keep them alive. Yahweh sends them to barren planets to create life.
- There are two methods to initiate an impact. In the natural method, one must "return" the fruit of knowledge (a fully evolved and developed human brain) to one's respective progenitor deity, which already has the fruit of life (S2 organ). In the seldom-used artificial method, an ancient rite must be performed with the progenitor deity's respective spear, involving 13 immortal beings with the fruit of life being sacrificed so that the deity can grow its own human brain. The artificial method was created as a failsafe in case humanity was unwilling to repatriate its brains.
- Because they are too highly evolved, the brains of evangelions will not be detected by Lilith's built-in genetic programming and cannot be used as impact triggers for the natural method. However, Evas with full S2 engines or S2 organs will still work fine as sacrifices for the artificial method.
- Knowing the Second Impact was imminent, Israel transplanted the souls of its top 5 Mossad agents into Lilin bodies so that they could survive the impact and carry out sabotage against the Lilin to ensure an Angel victory.
- Shinji, Asuka, and Mana all live with Misato. Rei II still lives by herself. Rei 1 lives in an apartment next door to Rei II. Touji, Kensuke, Hikari, and Kaworu all live with Fuyutsuki. Mari lives with Aoba.
- Touji successfully becomes pilot of Unit 3, Kensuke becomes pilot of Unit 4 (which doesn't tear the universe a new spacehole), Hikari becomes pilot of Unit 5, Kaworu arrives much earlier in the timeline as pilot of Special Unit 6 (Eva Mk 6), Mana becomes pilot of Unit 7, Mari appears rather abruptly as pilot of Unit 8.
- Instead of merging into one friend group, the pilots gradually form two cliques: Shinji's Angels (Shinji, Rei, Asuka, Mana), and The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (Kensuke [War], Touji [Famine], Hikari [Pestillence], Kaworu [Death]). Mari purposefully avoids joining either clique, but tries and fails to date Shinji, and eventually develops a serious romantic relationship with Kensuke.
- Pilots from different cliques are still friends with each other, just not as much as within their own cliques.
- Kaji now has a bit of an Austin Powers side to his personality.
- Rei 1 survives Naoko's attempt on her life by entering a catatonic near-death state. She emerges from this state a full 5 days later, after Naoko has already killed herself out of guilt and Rei II has been activated. At first terrified by what they think is a vengeful spirit appearing before them (they didn't know she had this ability), Fuyutsuki and Gendo welcome her back after everything is cleared up, but she never pilots an eva. Instead, she eventually becomes the series' comic relief character: The trenchcoat-clad, chainsmoking, alcoholic amateur detective/lawyer/bounty hunter Great Detective Rei.
- The descent arc is heavily overhauled and is now the betrayal arc, focusing on certain pilots betraying NERV and their fellow pilots.
- TV episodes 25 and 26 are scrapped and replaced by two new 1-hour episodes called "The Beginning of the End" and "The End of the Beginning." These are EoE cut in half, with many additional scenes added or redone to include the expanded cast.
- There are two full NGE movies instead of just 1. The first movie, "Cup of Wrath", takes place about halfway through the series (when all pilots are active), and sees them defend the Geofront against a coordinated mass assault by a group of 12 angels led by an Archangel. The pilots are puzzled by this Archangel's resemblance to an evangelion, and that it and Kaworu seem to know each other (the Archangel briefly converses with Kaworu and refers to him as Tabris). This helps set things up for the Betrayal arc. Much damage is sustained by the evas and geofront, which is reflected in subsequent episodes. The second movie, "Second Genesis", skips ahead 500 years after 3rd Impact and gives us a glimpse at the reformed and re-organized post-3I world. Shinji Ikari, physical age 25, an immortal and thoroughly broken man, is both emperor of the Holy Lilin Empire (a sort of Neo-Japan formed by former NERV employees post-3I) and god-pope of its state religion which he created around his dead friend Rei. Asuka, also apparently 25 and immortal, serves as Holy Mother but otherwise has no relationship with Shinji. The still-living spirit of GNR appears to Shinji in a dream and informs him that the hebrew god Yahweh is very real, very angry at being deprived of a new bride (GNR) by a botched impact, and is sending thousands of angels to earth to finish off humanity for good. GNR orders Shinji to subjugate earth under NERV rule once again using the empire's ultimate weapon (the Eva Corps), begin mass production of new Evas across the globe, and prepare for war with heaven.
- Actually, there's a third movie as well: "NERV Saves Christmas", the NGE christmas special we never got.

Eva Details/Changes  SPOILER: Show
- Unit 0: Starts off with blue paint job. Destroyed in fight with Armisael, although Rei II survives.
- Unit 1: Has the purple/red paint job from the awakened version in the rebuild. Still gets S2 organ from Zeruel.
- Unit 2: No changes.
- Unit 3: Never gets infected with Bardiel, Bardiel repurposed for another episode. Main weapon is a progressive warhammer.
- Unit 4: Has an imperfect prototype S2 engine that can only run for 10 minutes before overheating and shutting down. Same prototype S2 engine used in all subsequent production model evas. Starts with type 2 battery reserve that gives it an extra 10 minutes of power, later gets upgraded to the type 3 30-minute battery reserve featured on all production models starting with Unit 5. Main weapon is a designated marksman rifle.
- Unit 5: Blaze orange paint job. Starts off with type 3 battery reserve. Main weapons are a pair of progressive wakizashis.
- Special Unit 6: Exterior looks just like Eva mk. VI from the rebuild. Unknown model. No records of construction. Power supply unknown, theoretically infinite. Main weapon is false spear of Longinus.
- Unit 7: Emerald green paint job. Main weapon is pallet SMG.
- Unit 8: Still pink like in the rebuild, but has the standard production model head. Intended to be the final eva in the production model series. Has a lot of aftermarket parts of unknown purpose. S2 engine never seems to overheat or fail.
- Unit 9: OD Green paint job. Looks like Neo-NERV's MP evas from 3.33. Has the perfected S2 engine, negating the need for a battery backup. Delivered to NERV the day after Kaworu's death. Is never officially assigned a pilot, but is piloted by Hikari during the battle with SEELE's Harpy-series evas. The first of a planned 20 identical units (Units 9-28) intended to replace all evas in NERV's existing fleet, it was the only unit finished before Third Impact. However, the design was resurrected by the Holy Lilin Empire post-3I, who built an additional 200-300 units of this type.


Betrayal Arc specifics  SPOILER: Show
- Mana is the first to betray everyone, stealing one of Unit 5's spare S2 engines with her eva and breaking out of the geofront. Units 0 and 1 are scrambled to intercept her before she gets out of Tokyo 3. Mari also launches (without authorization) and takes up a sniping position on a nearby mountain. Shinji and Rei catch up to Mana on the outskirts and block her exit. Mana admits that she's an industrial spy hired to steal an S2 engine from NERV for a rival company which is developing its own weapons to compete with the eva series. She also admits that she was faking romantic interest in Shinji in order to cement her cover. Given that he and Mana were getting fairly serious with their relationship, Shinji is completely devastated and unable to fight. Rei attacks first instead, but Mana, being a trained spy, is superior at hand-to-hand combat and breaks both of Unit 0's arms. Then she goes for Unit 1 and its unresponsive pilot, trying to snap their necks. Shinji remains unresponsive despite the pain, so Gendo orders the newly-installed Autopilot to be activated. Unit 1 reactivates under control of the Autopilot and brutally destroys Mana and Unit 7 in a shower of gore. Mana is killed when her entry plug is wrung out like a dishrag. The resulting psychological trauma puts Shinji out of action for several episodes. Thematically, this replaces the Bardiel fight.

- Next is Hikari, who is manipulated by Mari into making an attemp on Gendo's life (Mari basically tells her the truth about Gendo's plans, while sprinkling in a few lies about timing). Hikari fails to snipe Gendo during one of his speeches, panicks, runs to her eva's cage, and launches without authorization, planning to escape to the surface. Meanwhile, knowing only that someone shot at him and that Unit 5 has launched without authorization, Gendo orders Units 3 and 4 (Touji and Kensuke) to intercept Unit 5. Only Unit 3 is to confront at close range, while Unit 4 takes up a sniping position. They catch her in the foothills. Seeing both of her closest male friends, Hikari immediately opens a comms channel to both evas. She admits to trying to kill Gendo, but before she can spill his secrets, Gendo yells for Unit 5's audio and visual feeds to be jammed. All 3 eva pilots on the surface are very confused as they try to bring comms back up. While this is happening, Mari is hiding in the bowels of the Geofront, hacked into a seldom-used mainframe terminal. Seeing an opportunity to eliminate her only witness, Mari hacks and activates Unit 5's Autopilot, but neglects to properly de-sync Hikari beforehand. Neither Gendo or the other pilots know this has happened. Unit 5 suddenly attacks Unit 3. Touji makes weak attempts at fighting off his girlfriend's eva, but can't bring himself to do any serious damage. It's a stalemate until Unit 3, the only one of the trio still running the original battery hardware instead of the new 30-minute upgrade, runs out of power. The Autopilot-controlled Unit 5 lifts powerless Unit 3 by its head and squeezes, attempting to crush the skull. Kensuke, realizing Touji will to be killed if this continues, blows Unit 5's head off with an experimental anti-AT projectile, ending its rampage and sending Hikari into a coma. Hikari is falsely listed as Killed In Action and secretly transferred to a maximum security holding cell deep within the Geofront. Unit 5 is permanently mothballed instead of being repaired. Kensuke's actions drive a wedge between him and Touji.

- Next is Mari herself. Kensuke is deeply disturbed by the incident with Unit 5, and begins doing his own investigation, eventually hiring Rei 1 to help. Together they dig up some close-up footage of Unit 5's face, and notice the eyes black out for a second just before it attacks. Having thoroughly studied all available info on Autopilots, he realizes what happened. Going through computer records, he and Rei 1 discover the hack and trace it back to its origin. Meanwhile, Touji and Maya Ibuki have been trying to find the location of Hikari's grave by looking through NERV's records. The grieving Touji has developed a physical relationship with Maya, and is using her to access NERV's records since he and Kensuke are no longer on speaking terms. Puzzled that NERV would list a burial site for Mana but not for Hikari, they also stumble across the hack after further investigating the incident. Of their own accord, both parties coverge on the same computer teminal deep within the Geofront. Checking the desk, the 4 find personal belongings which are unmistakeably Mari's. Kensuke is crushed by the revelation that his lover is responsible for what happened to Hikari. Touji forgives Kensuke for blowing off Unit 5's head, admitting that the Autopilot would have killed him if Kensuke hadn't done it. Rei 1 jumps on the terminal, saying she bets Mari has been doing a lot more stuff like this. Soon she finds some text files indicating that Mari has just found the location of Hikari's holding cell and is going to finish her off. Rei 1 announces this to everyone. Touji, Kensuke, and Rei 1 hatch a plan to terminate Mari and save Hikari. Maya leaves the other three, explaining that she has a duty to report all of this to her superiors. Touji, Kensuke, and Rei 1 get geared up with Kensuke's collectibles (real automatic rifles) at his apartment, while Maya reports everything to Misato and Gendo. Gendo orders a squad of NERV guards to find and kill Mari, but also to make sure Hikari isn't freed. Touji, Kensuke, and Rei 1 reach Mari first, intercepting her in the hallway just outside Hikari's cell. When confronted, Mari reveals herself as Mariah Mackinewitz, one of the last 5 Mossad operatives left on earth after the 2nd impact. She explains that her mission is to infiltrate and sabotage NERV, ensuring that one of the final angels succeeds in reaching Lilith and putting the impact back under the control of Yahweh. She draws a SMG from inside the NERV uniform she's wearing and opens fire, starting a gunfight. Kensuke is shot twice in the abdomen, Touji three times in the abdomen, and Rei 1 twice in the leg, but they fatally wound Mari numerous times. With the last of her strength, Mari forces her failing body up against a wall and prepares to put a bullet in Kensuke's head when NERV security arrives and finishes her off. Touji, Kensuke, and Rei 1 are rushed to the medical wing before they can rescue Hikari.

- Finally, it's Kaworu's turn. Sensing his time has come after Armisael's death, he activates and launches Special Unit 6 at midnight without authorization. Retrieving his eva's false spear of Longinus and tower shield from the armory, he travels to the shaft entrance and pulses his eva's AT field rapidly 3 times. This activates a trojan planted in the Magi by Mari weeks prior which disables all security systems leading to Lilith. No alarms are set off, but Hyuga happens to see the eva approaching the shaft entrance from his apartment window and calls the bridge night crew. The rest of the bridge crew soon rushes to their stations still in their night clothes. Gendo and Fuyutsuki arrive in their briefs. Gendo immediately yells for every single operational eva to be deployed immediately, as he is quite sick of all these unauthorized launches. Units 1, 2, 3, 4, and Unit 8 with Rei II as pilot, are deployed and intercept Special Unit 6 at the bottom of the shaft. Rei II complains that Unit 8's entry plug smells like gefiltefish as an open jar of the stuff floats past her head. Special Unit 6 takes up a defensive position in front of Heaven's Door, hiding its body behind the shield and using the spear to poke at anyone who gets too close. Units 3 and 4 manage to grab the shield. Unit 2 tries to grab the spear, but trips and falls due to Asuka's terrible sync rate. Units 1 and 8 manage to grab the spear, but Special Unit 6 send out a powerful AT field pulse which sends everyone flying away from it. As everyone else gets back up, Special Unit 6 levitates, and Kaworu floats up out of the entry plug, glowing. His eva remains fully active despite having neither a pilot or an active Autopilot. Kaworu introduces himself as Tabris, the final angel, and Yahweh's failsafe. He explains that he was sent to NERV just in case the other angels failed to reach Lilith, and that Mari was working for him. Shinji asks why the angels want to destroy humankind. Kaworu gives him a simplified explanation of the Impact and the creation of the next Shekinah, a new bride for Yahweh. He then speaks an incantation to Special Unit 6 which causes the eva's visor to glow blue as it enters something similar to a berserker state. As his eva flies into battle once again, Kaworu opens heaven's door and floats toward Lilith. Units 1 and 4 manage to squeeze past Special Unit 6 and go after him. Kensuke in Unit 4 sprints between Kaworu and Lilith, levitating his eva up in front of her and pushing his AT field to maximum, using himself as a human shield. Lilith sends out tendrils which wrap around Unit 4 as she tries to absorb it, causing Kensuke intense pain. Kaworu stops just long enough for Unit 1 to grab him. However, he promptly amplifies his AT field and blows off Unit 1's right arm. The addition of Unit 1's new S2 organ causes the arm to quickly regenerate, and Shinji uses a new tactic: He uses his eva's hands to bend its AT field into a tight ball around Kaworu, immobilizing him. Kaworu tries repeatedly to break free with his own AT field, but can't.
Meanwhile in the shaft terminus room, Special Unit 6 attacks the weakest link, Unit 2, first. Unable to do anything worthwhile, Asuka screams in frustration and activates Unit 2's Autopilot, allowing the eva to at least defend itself. She curls into a fetal position and cries. With some difficulty, Special Unit 6 is able to briefly throw off Unit 2 and pins it to a wall with the spear. Asuka screams in agony as the spear corrodes both her and her eva's AT fields, causing them both gaping abdominal wounds. Special Unit 6 turns to attack Unit 8, which is charging at it. It siezes Unit 8 by the throat with both hands, arches over it, and vomits a viscous blue gel all over the chest and throat area. The gel eats through Unit 8's undersuit and is absorbed through the skin. Rei II feels a burning sensation in her throat and chest, and watches as her monitors begin to bluescreen one by one. Realizing her eva is about to become another tool of the angels, she activates the self-destruct system and ejects straight up the shaft. Special Unit 6 continues to choke Unit 8, presumably waiting for the transformation to finish. Unit 3 has just finished pulling the spear out of Unit 2 when the explosion happens. Knocked into the wall by the blast wave, both get up as the dust settles and see Special Unit 6 heading for heaven's door, missing its chest plates. It has homogenous white flesh and a blue core. Knowing it's going after Kensuke and Shinji, Touji and his eva both enter a berserker state and charge it with the spear. At medium range, Special Unit 6 counterattacks with blue eye beams, which Unit 2 takes to the face as it animalistically leaps ahead of Unit 3. Unit 3 rushes past and rams the spear through Special Unit 6's core. Instead of taking damage, the strange eva simply deactivates. Unit 2 pounces and tries to pull its blue core out, at which point Gendo has the Autopilot remotely deactivated.
Unit 3 reaches Unit 4 and cuts it down from Lilith's "embrace" with a progressive knife. The two friends focus their attention on Kaworu. Now surrounded by 3 evas and without support, Kaworu realizes there's no way he can win. Determined to inflict as much damage as possible, even psychological damage, by any means necessary, Kaworu smiles at Shinji and tells him he loves him. Then Kaworu drops his AT field. Before Shinji can react, Unit 1's AT field crushes his closest friend into a fine red paste which splatters all over the front of Unit 1. After a brief pause, Shinji and Unit 1 fall to their knees and scream in anguish. Shinji's sync rate drops to zero.
In the aftermath, Units 3 and 4 carry Units 1 and 2 back to the top of the shaft and drag them to their cages. Asuka, Rei II, Shinji, and Kensuke are rushed to the hospital. Units 2 and 4 receive emergency repairs. Gendo stands at the edge of the shaft in a hazmat suit as the deactivated Special Unit 6 is lifted out by crane and transferred to biohazard containment. From the balcony of a nearby building, Rei 1 also observes this while smoking a cigar. Her eyes widen when she sees the exposed core and tissue. "An Apocrypha.. so that's what one looks like." she says.
Last edited by IronEvangelion on Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:50 pm, edited 6 times in total.
[Redacted]

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby orcot » Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:58 am

View Original PostIronEvangelion wrote:After re-watching the series on blu-ray, I feel like updating my older post I made in this thread 7 years ago. There's plenty more I'd change now.

Basic outline of my changes:

No changes to the adults?
They are somewhat underused and would probably benefit most from changes?

Personaly I like the term dummy plug, it's a hamfisted word in a show that points to the difficulties to communicate yeah it's stupid but it's stupid funny in a way that can have serious results. (for example during Rei's missing 4 years (before the death of Yui) I would have her be physical in lilith/unit 01 and as the dummy control, with Yui being exhausted by raising it/her to the point she can follow basic orders Yui can't operate unit 01 but she can control the dummy/Rei who can operate unit 01. NAoko on occasions took care of the dummy/Rei but treated her as a brain in a jar and openly cald her the dummyplug/system/... resulting in Rei lashing out and Naoko eventualy killing her. Naoko killing Rei was always somewhat rash and stupid the dummy part makes it somwhat funny with serious overtones that need to happen in the story and the name sticking around means no one has learned anything, and that's depresingly evangelion.

PS I'm not sure making the characters older would help the situation it would make them more horny and more awkward whilst giving the audience less tolerance for it. Can you describe a scene where making the character 1 year older would help the story advance, or could you work in a scene that would work better with 15 year olds? In honnesty the characters look abouth 12 (in height).

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby IronEvangelion » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:45 pm

View Original Postorcot wrote:No changes to the adults?
They are somewhat underused and would probably benefit most from changes?

PS I'm not sure making the characters older would help the situation it would make them more horny and more awkward whilst giving the audience less tolerance for it. Can you describe a scene where making the character 1 year older would help the story advance, or could you work in a scene that would work better with 15 year olds? In honnesty the characters look abouth 12 (in height).


I might have some changes for the adults later, I have been and still am editing stuff into the new post because it would take too long to do all at once.

As for the age change, the pilots are aged 3 years, not one. Asuka (the youngest) would be 16 instead of 13, Shinji and Rei II would be 17, etc. Height changes would be part of the redesigns. While it wouldn't change scenes like the hospital scene (which was never really fanservice to begin with), certain scenes would be quite a bit easier to watch, such as the aircraft carrier scene with Asuka and Touji. That scene had never bothered me on previous viewings, but this time I thought to myself, "He really just pulled down his pants and showed his junk to a 13-year-old girl." Granted it's still bizarre behavior and should have been punished by his CO, but for me it would be a lot easier to watch if Asuka had at least hit sexual maturity (which occurs at age 15 in girls) instead of barely even being a teenager. Another benefit is that having the pilots be older would allow them to form more complex relationships with each other.
[Redacted]

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby orcot » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:24 am

View Original PostIronEvangelion wrote:
As for the age change, the pilots are aged 3 years, not one. Asuka (the youngest) would be 16 instead of 13, Shinji and Rei II would be 17, etc. Height changes would be part of the redesigns. While it wouldn't change scenes like the hospital scene (which was never really fanservice to begin with), certain scenes would be quite a bit easier to watch, such as the aircraft carrier scene with Asuka and Touji. That scene had never bothered me on previous viewings, but this time I thought to myself, "He really just pulled down his pants and showed his junk to a 13-year-old girl." Granted it's still bizarre behavior and should have been punished by his CO, but for me it would be a lot easier to watch if Asuka had at least hit sexual maturity (which occurs at age 15 in girls) instead of barely even being a teenager. Another benefit is that having the pilots be older would allow them to form more complex relationships with each other.



Personaly I could see a 13 year old pull his pants down, a 16 year old doing the same would be more strange honnestly (would work even better with a 10 year old). My problem would be why a 13 year old civilian is allowed on a american aircraft carrier during active duty let alone his friend filming stuff. (kensuke would probably be in more trouble). (PS in personal drafts you can just remove the scene altough eva has a lot of this type of humor and it takes away the need to make the characters older).
(scene can be solved by Gendo being pragmatic and take them along so if the mission fails Shinji knows his friends will die and change the aircraft carrier to the water platform from the second rebuild movie/episode).
Also I'm not sure Misato is his CO as he is a civilian a attendant would be closer.


having read the spoilers it feels closer to gundam then eva, I'm not sure how Hikari would gain acces to a sniper rifle and amunaition or know how to fire it properly.
On the Hacking parts I beleive only the characters of Kensuku+Rei, the 3 stooges, Kaji+secret backer, Ritsuko, MAGI and Fujutsuki seem could atempt this. Anyone else needs a set up.
Maya and Toji have a 8 year age gap (if he is 16) when it's a bit weird turn her into a wonderchild that finished high school at 16 and has like 3 years of experience at NERV if you want to keep her a adult.

So is Rei 1, 14 in this draft?

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby IronEvangelion » Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:18 am

View Original Postorcot wrote:(PS in personal drafts you can just remove the scene altough eva has a lot of this type of humor and it takes away the need to make the characters older).
(scene can be solved by Gendo being pragmatic and take them along so if the mission fails Shinji knows his friends will die and change the aircraft carrier to the water platform from the second rebuild movie/episode).
Also I'm not sure Misato is his CO as he is a civilian a attendant would be closer.


I'm not sure how Hikari would gain acces to a sniper rifle and amunaition or know how to fire it properly.
On the Hacking parts I beleive only the characters of Kensuku+Rei, the 3 stooges, Kaji+secret backer, Ritsuko, MAGI and Fujutsuki seem could atempt this. Anyone else needs a set up.
Maya and Toji have a 8 year age gap (if he is 16) when it's a bit weird turn her into a wonderchild that finished high school at 16 and has like 3 years of experience at NERV if you want to keep her a adult.

So is Rei 1, 14 in this draft?


I could remove certain content I find contextually objectionable given their ages, but that would mean going through all the fanservice scene-by-scene and altering it manually, which would be a massive undertaking. The age increase solves all the issues for me and makes a lot less work.
That's true, Misato wouldn't be his CO yet since he isn't a pilot yet. I forgot that.

Mari has a setup, she's a Mossad (Israeli intelligence) agent in this timeline and would definitely know how to hack NERV's computers. Especially given that she's romantically involved with Kensuke and has been stealing passwords and intel from him without him noticing. She has other agents helping her from outside, so getting an old rifle and some ammo smuggled in for Hikari wouldn't be much of a problem. As for Hikari's failure, it was due to her lack of experience and training with the weapon. Mari basically gave her a few target practice sessions and then used her as a disposable assassin in an attempt to hasten an angel victory. Although it didn't work as planned, It still worked out very well for Mari, since her backup plan to silence Hikari ended up taking an eva and pilot permanently out of service.

Maya would be 27 in this timeline and Touji would be 17, so the age gap would be 10 years. Doesn't bother me personally, since both are well over 15. They do work to keep their relationship a secret to avoid impacting Maya's personal and professional life. As for why this pairing, I read it in a fanfic once and liked it.

Rei 1 is 17 in this timeline, the same age as Rei II. She's mainly a comic relief character, although she does practical stuff to help pilots and other NERV staff. She has a great deal of training and certifications that she logically shouldn't have, such as a mail-order law degree and training as both a detective and bounty hunter. Personality-wise she retains her trademark brutal honesty, but with the addition of mimicking the "hard-nosed detective" archetype from the old black-and-white detective movies. She even goes as far as to self-narrate her entire daily life when not talking to anyone. Here's a scene where she meets Asuka for the first time:
Asuka meets Rei 1  SPOILER: Show
*Asuka sees an unusual sight when the elevator doors open. Apparently, Rei has decided to wear a trenchcoat today and smells heavily of cigars. Annoyed, Asuka takes a deep breath and steps in. The elevator shuts and descends.*
Rei 1: "The elevator continues down, down, down, into the belly of this iron beast. It's like the earth is swallowing me whole. But I must brave this descent into darkness if I'm to solve the case of Kaji's missing tuxedo. Some ginger broad just boarded the elevator with me. An assassin? Impossible to tell at this point, though she does gaze at me with intent to kill. I note her dead-eyed stare, her low criminal forehead, the frown which will turn to permanent lines on her face if she doesn't give it a rest. There! The twitch in her left eye. Her desire to kill is palpable. Definitely an agent of the tuxedo thieves, sent here to kill me. But I must stay calm. The elevator keeps descending, carrying me toward our fateful confrontation. B19, B20, B21, B22-"
Asuka: "Oh my god, just SHUT UP ALREADY!"
*Asuka lunges at Rei 1 to slap her. Rei 1 catches her wrist and immobilizes her.*
Rei 1: "Cut out the rough stuff, toots, or you'll be getting a knuckle sandwich."
Asuka: "Get your hands off me, stupid loudmouth doll!"
Rei 1: "Don't be such a bitch, I'm a lawyer."
*Asuka backs off, visibly confused and a little scared.*
*Silence for about 10 seconds.*
Rei 1: "Another attempt on my life thwarted. The tuxedo thieves will have to try harder next time. So typical of these so-called criminal masterminds, they always underestimate me and send some low-IQ thug to take me out. It never works. The elevator grinds ever downward on its seemingly endless journey to-"
*Asuka punches the stop button.*
Asuka: "I'll... take... the STAIRS..."
*Asuka stomps out of the elevator*
*Rei 1 sighs and presses the button for her target floor again.*
*Elevator descends one more floor and stops.*
Rei 1: "Dumb broad. I was just about to get off."
[Redacted]


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