Evangelion: The Definitive Dub Project

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Evangelion: The Definitive Dub Project

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Postby CoolJosh2002 » Sat Oct 09, 2021 1:04 am

First off, this is not intended to be in competition with the similar yet different take on a project like this called Dub Genesis. Dude in charge of that project (sorry I forgot your name haha), I love what you're doing with that project, keep doing what you're doing. Don't let my own interpretation of what a Definitive Dub would look like hinder your progress with that project. My ideas are going to be different from yours, so keep working on it, I love it, and will keep up with it as well. I fully intend this to be an alternative set of dubs for those who wish to use them. But please check out that other project as well, it looks great!

I decided to start my own project like this because there are some aspects of both dubs which I really enjoy by combining them together to create as smooth an experience as possible. Largely because the Dub history for this franchise is a mess, and I felt like there is a way we can make it more smooth and concrete.

As such, from Episode 1 of Neon Genesis Evangelion, all the way through to Evangelion 3.33 (3.0+1.01 has only a single dub, so no need for it in this project), this project will attempt to create as consistent an experience in English as possible. This means carefully selecting cast to create a not only consistent experience but also one that I would consider acceptable by the standards of Dubs in the year 2021 onwards. The other goal is to remove some of the more egregious moments that were added by ADV and Manga: Like the awkward and stupid kissing sounds in E15, "Ow, my eye." in E18, "Hit em Again" and SPLAT in EoE etc.

As of this writing, I have finished work on Episode 1, and am in progress on Episode 2. Episode 2 is currently in what I'd call the first rush state. I've got a complete dub viewable from start to finish, but not much more work has been done on it from that point. There are still some things to do.

So what will we be seeing here? Here's a look at my choices for each character, relative to Episodes 1 and 2:

Shinji: For Shinji I'll be sticking with Spike Spencer's performance from the ADV Dub and both Rebuild Dubs. For the Rebuild films, I'll largely use his performances from Funimations dubs (Because "I want Rei, GIVE HER BACK!" Is too good not to lose), but expect to see a bit of a mixture of performances from both. Sorry to fans of Casey Mongillo's Shinji, but their Shinji is just too drastically different from Spike's that I can't really slot them in anywhere, their vocalizations might pop up now and then, but that's about all I can do. (I'm not the biggest fan of Mongillo's Shinji either so there you go...)

Misato: Allison Keith will take the reigns for the entire runtime. Unlike Shinji however, Keith had some very rough early episodes of the series, with some of her deliveries being inexcusably bad. However, there is a way to boost Allison's early episode performance: Rebuild. By using a combination of Funi and Amazon 1.11 lines, Allison's performance has been boosted in the first few episodes of the show. Also going to be used occasionally is Carrie Keranen's Performance in the Netflix/VSI Dub, the two sound similar enough that with a bit of pitch-shifting, it'll be quite hard to pinpoint where Keranen has been slotted in. Using lines from 1.11 is also being used for a couple other characters, Shinji has a few Amazon 1.11 lines in Episode 1 when Shinji and Gendo meet again. For Rebuild, Misato will likely lean more towards Funi, and then more of a mix by 3.33.

Gendo: Tristan MacAvery will hold reign for the series, no changes needed. For DC and Rebuild, it will be John Swasey, with a mixture of performances from Funi and Amazon, expect more of a mixture for Gendo, as Swasey has some truly excellent deliveries on Amazon. Ray Chase from VSI likely won't show up at all, which is a shame, he has some good moments, but MacAvery was pretty spot-on from the get-go, and Swasey picks up in E21' quite nicely.

Ritsuko: This was a hard choice. Mary Faber (Amazon) better lines up with Erika Lindbeck (VSI), but I much prefer Colleen Clinkenbeard (Funi) in Rebuild, and she's a closer match to Sue Ulu (ADV). So here's what I've gone with. Sue Ulu (E1 -> EoE) -> Colleen Clinkenbeard (1.11 -> 3.33) -> Mary Faber (3.0+1.01). This seems like the best choice in my eyes, Faber runs better coming off of 3.33 instead of EoE. Lindbeck isn't gone entirely. Some of Ulu's more terrible deliveries in the early episodes have been swapped with Lindbeck's equivalent line, and I have pitch-shifted Lindbeck to get a closer match to Ulu. Some of Faber's 1.11 lines might be used in the series first six episodes as well, as I generally found her deliveries were a bit more natural.

Fuyutsuki: Pretty easy pick on my part. Guil Lunde (E1 -> E26) -> Michael Ross (EoE -> 3.0+1.01). The only downside for this decision is retaining Ross' EoE performance, which isn't that great at all, but he more than makes up for it in Rebuild. As for JP Karliak and Kent Williams, I'm sorry, but they sound too similar to Gendo to be properly used. Ross' Amazon performace will have a couple of repeat lines, as I've used the odd line here and there to swap out some of Lunde's more awkward early episode lines.

Maya: The best pick for consistency for me goes like this: Kendra Benham (E1 -> E20) -> Monica Rial (E21' -> E26) -> Amy Seeley (EoE -> 3.0+1.01). Maya will likely be the only character to go through three voices in this project. Caitlin Glass I could probably pop in a few times and not many people would notice. As for Christine Marie Cabanos, her Maya is so drastically different voice wise that like with Shinji, I can't simply pitch-shift it, it'd sound really bad. However, Cabanos will likely show up a few times throughout the series, whenever Maya herself isn't shown on screen. So now Cabanos is simply not playing Maya lol.

Hyuga: Daniel MK Cohen's stereotypical nerd voice (I'm sorry but that's really what he sounds like!) will not be in this project, it's too different from everyone else. As such: Matt Greenfield (E1 -> E26) -> Keith Burgess (I guess? EoE) -> Mike McFarland (1.11 -> 3.33) -> Joe Fria (3.0+1.01). Hyuga suffers the most from constant actor changes. Previously it was Maya but with Seeley's return, it now extends to Hyuga. As such, four voices! I much prefer McFarland's Hyuga over Fria's, so he will helm 1.11 - 3.33. Fria will take the only one I can't do anything to. Keith Burgess remains because Cohen is still such a drastic voice change that it would be just as obvious of using Burgess. Which one should I go for people? Give me some thoughts.

Aoba: Fortunately, the last Bridge Bunny is pretty well set. Jason C. Lee, with Vic Mignogna or the guy in the Netflix Dub, I don't really mind, briefly taking over for the end of the series. As such, Aoba, the character I likely least care about, will be the one with the most consistent voice of the bridge bunnies haha.

As of now, I have some thoughts for characters like Toji, Kensuke, Kaworu etc. But I haven't got to a point where I'm using them yet. So I'll make sure to note that and get some opinions when it happens. Extras and Side Characters will mostly lean towards Netflix, with a hint of ADV here and there.

Keel is a character I want to get some opinions about. What would work best? It'll either be Rick Peeples -> Tom Booker, or DC Douglas -> Bill Jenkins. Peeples has some awkward lines but then Booker has the excellent "All is right with the world" line in EoE. However, Douglas is more consistently good, and Jenkins is a better voice match for him. Thoughts?

Another character I was idling on was Committeeman Yellow, I've got VSI in currently but adore the ADV voice, even if E2 delivery wasn't necessarily great. Thoughts?

These are all only Audio Files, designed to be synced to your own copies of RENEWAL, if you would like to give Episode 1 a crack you'll need to shoot me a private message. I'll discuss more with you then.

At this point I'm not sure if I'm going to do Death(True)^2. Maybe? I don't know.

Thanks all! Would love to see some ideas and feedback, and remember to check out the other similar project Dub Genesis as well!

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Re: Evangelion: The Definitive Dub Project

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Postby CoolJosh2002 » Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:46 pm

Hi again everyone!

I'm going to upload some clips from this Project unlisted onto my YouTube channel so people can check them out and get a preview of the full episode. However! I'm only going to upload one clip from each Episode to create a full list from Episode 1 to 3.33 (Movies will likely get two or three clips, they are movies after all!)

So, I ask of you people of EvaGeeks! What scenes from Episodes 1 and 2 would you like to see? I'll keep track of what people want and the most common answer will be uploaded, so get your scenes in.

Episode 2 is going well currently. Haven't been able to work on it in a couple of days, but work is in progress for improving performances by using the 1.11 Dubs. For instance, the Unit-01 going Berserk against Sachiel scene is a blending of all four dubs, with a lot of Allison's Lines coming from both 1.11 Dubs, and Caitlin Glass stepping in for Kendra Benham for the more mediocre line deliveries. I think it works really well!

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Re: Evangelion: The Definitive Dub Project

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Postby CoolJosh2002 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:44 am

Greetings! Episode 2 is complete!

As always, please shoot me a message directly if you'd like to give these dubs a watch. Episode 1 will be redone at a later date, likely once I've gotten to around Episode 6, so I can still be in the using 1.11 form.

I'm going to upload a clip from this Episode onto my YouTube channel in a couple days, what scene would people like to see?

Episode 3 will be started soon, going to record the Netflix Dub first and give it a re-watch to see anything I like. Toji, Hikari and Kensuke will likely be Netflix, although I might use ADV for Kensuke we'll see. This means I can avoid the Toji farm of actors in the ADV dub, and Carol Amerson's very nice but rather inconsistent performance as Hikari.

I also had a thought for those who like the Netflix Trio for the Pilots as well. While I'm not using them for their usual teenage appearances, there's still the child forms, so I'm contemplating using the Netflix Dub for the pilots as Children. What do you guys think? Which means that yes, Shinji talking to Leliel in Episode 16 will be a conversation between Spike's Shinji and Casey's Shinji.

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Re: Evangelion: The Definitive Dub Project

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Postby pwhodges » Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:22 pm

View Original PostCoolJosh2002 wrote:I'm contemplating using the Netflix Dub for the pilots as Children. What do you guys think? Which means that yes, Shinji talking to Leliel in Episode 16 will be a conversation between Spike's Shinji and Casey's Shinji.

That's an interesting idea.
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Re: Evangelion: The Definitive Dub Project

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Postby CoolJosh2002 » Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:19 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:That's an interesting idea.

Right now it's just an idea. I think E16 is the first time that a younger version of a pilot shows up. (In that case, the Leliel-Shinji, who appears as a child.) It's also my way of appeasing fans of the pilot recasts while sticking with what I believe is the stronger performance. It'll be a while before that point though, E3 is currently in progress. The classroom scene is a nightmare!

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Re: Evangelion: The Definitive Dub Project

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Postby CoolJosh2002 » Sat Nov 06, 2021 9:16 pm

Episode 3 Progress Update!

First instance of Nairf! As said by Toji. Not much I can really do about that. Avoided last episode as Committeeman Yellow pronounced it nerve on VSI as well. So fun.

Casey has a line as Shinji! An odd bit from ADV here, as they didn't actually record any lines from Spike right before Shinji fights Shamshel. Hopefully I can pitch-shift Casey so that it at least sounds good. If I don't deem it good though, then those lines are gone and will only be available in subs unfortunately. You'd have thought ADV would've fixed this with Platinum but apparently, they thought having Shinji say "Bullshit!" was better. (That will be removed in E5 btw.)

The classroom scene actually ended up being a bit easier than I thought. I was able to blend in and out the class sounds from ADV with Shinji while the VSI class sounds also blended in and out as Shinji spoke. It worked a lot better than I thought.

More progress to come!

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Postby AWinters » Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:44 pm

Kensuke is gonna be a tough one to keep consistent because all his voices are so drastically different.
My favourite one was his ADV voice. I thought it was clever that they gave one of the teen boys a breaking voice.
The nerdy voice he got from the Amazon production is the runner up for me.
I don't think he suited the Funimation voice.

For Kaworu, the Funimation voice was my favourite. He's a known anime VO and the voice suited him really well.

In the scene where Ritsuko meets Misato at the elevator; the Amazon version is the only one where that dialogue didn't feel awkwardly unnatural. But yeah, she does sound too different to the other Ritsukos.

Kaji's ADV voice is my only favourite. I don't even care about the acting - his voice is sexy! XD

I would stick to Allison for Misato. Her voice is so distinguished and it's the most amazing voice I've ever heard in VO. A switch to any other voice would stand out badly.
Her Funimation line, "but it's all I could do to keep a straight face" is the funniest and most authentic of all versions of that scene.

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Re: Evangelion: The Definitive Dub Project

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Postby CoolJosh2002 » Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:26 am

AWinters wrote:Kensuke is gonna be a tough one to keep consistent because all his voices are so drastically different.
My favourite one was his ADV voice. I thought it was clever that they gave one of the teen boys a breaking voice.
The nerdy voice he got from the Amazon production is the runner up for me.
I don't think he suited the Funimation voice.


Simply for ease I'll be sticking with Ben Diskin for Kensuke. I like Kurt Stoll very much but his early performances aren't great. Rebuild will likely be Alejandro Saab from the Amazon Dub. To be fair though, Episode 3 is not finished yet, and it is Kensuke's first appearance. I might still switch back to Kurt Stoll yet.

AWinters wrote:For Kaworu, the Funimation voice was my favourite. He's a known anime VO and the voice suited him really well.


Kaworu will likely be Clifford Chapin in the Series (I think Greg Ayres in DC was also really good, pretty equal to Chapin, but that also means switching to Aaron Krohn for the two NGE films, who I didn't think was as good as Kaworu), Jerry Jewell will definitely be taking the helm for 1.11-3.33. Loved what he did in the Funi Dubs. I've liked what I've heard of Daman Mills so far, but I've yet to watch the 3.33 re-dub, which will be the deciding factor on his Kaworu.

AWinters wrote:In the scene where Ritsuko meets Misato at the elevator; the Amazon version is the only one where that dialogue didn't feel awkwardly unnatural. But yeah, she does sound too different to the other Ritsukos.


Mary Faber sounds reasonably similar to Erica Lindbeck from the Netflix Dub, there's just one issue. Lindbeck's Ritsuko doesn't sound like Misato's friend in the early episodes. Besides, I think Sue Ulu is just more interesting to listen to. As for Rebuild? Colleen Clinkenbeard. No doubt about it, best English Ritsuko imo. Lindbeck is only used in the series to prop up Ulu's performance, and only if I deem it absolutely necessary. (ie. The delivery was so irredeemably bad.) Like Misato, Lindbeck's Ritsuko is also Pitch-Shifted to better match Ulu.

AWinters wrote:Kaji's ADV voice is my only favourite. I don't even care about the acting - his voice is sexy! XD


You bet your ass that Aaron Krohn will be Kaji for this dub. Didn't like Netflix Kaji very much. 2.22 will be J. Michael Tatum. I don't know what went on with Kaji for the Amazon dub...

AWinters wrote:I would stick to Allison for Misato. Her voice is so distinguished and it's the most amazing voice I've ever heard in VO. A switch to any other voice would stand out badly.
Her Funimation line, "but it's all I could do to keep a straight face" is the funniest and most authentic of all versions of that scene.


Allison will be Misato as much as possible. It'll only switch to Carrie Keranen if: 1. The line wasn't well delivered (Only really an issue in the early Episodes) and 2. There is no suitable replacement from the Rebuild 1.11 Dubs that I can put in its place. If the need arises to insert Keranen (Like in Episode 1 for one line) then the line is pitch-shifted accordingly. They sound similar enough otherwise.

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Postby AWinters » Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:11 am

I didn't notice any issues with Allison's performance, I think the way she said some things were directed that way.
ADV certainly made a lot of "do it like this, it'll be funny" kind of choices. I'm not complaining, I enjoyed their fun take on it.
(I'm still amused by Hyuga's blatant Shatner impression in the Ramiel episode. I have my suspicions they were drinking in the booth).

Back on track...
In episode two I wasn't keen on the way Misato was directed to say "oh, there's this really cool place!" I think that could be buried over with one of the sound clips from the rebuild (whichever one you don't use for the rebuild itself, maybe?)

I think Misato's entire Funimation script may be better than her Amazon script.
I've had a thought on this;
Allison's voice has aged a bit between the two rebuild dubs and there's a tiny bit of roughness to her voice now.
So! I think it would be awesome to use her Funimation voice for 1.11 & 2.22 then switch over to her Amazon voice for the final two films.
This would give us the effect of her sounding older after 15 years.

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Postby CoolJosh2002 » Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:45 am

AWinters wrote:I didn't notice any issues with Allison's performance, I think the way she said some things were directed that way.
ADV certainly made a lot of "do it like this, it'll be funny" kind of choices. I'm not complaining, I enjoyed their fun take on it.
(I'm still amused by Hyuga's blatant Shatner impression in the Ramiel episode. I have my suspicions they were drinking in the booth).


So far, the only line I've had to outright use Keranen on was the "You're a boy aren't you!" Line in Episode 1. It was just easily the worst thing I've heard come out of Allison's Misato, and there was no equivalent in 1.11, so yeah... Besides that, it's been Allison otherwise, just using 1.11 in places where I deemed her performance not necessarily up to scratch like she is later in the series. Hyuga is Matt Greenfield, so the blatant Shatner impression is still there! I don't want to get rid of the fun completely. I still want this to feel like a typical mecha fare during the first half of the series, which is something I thought the VSI Dub severely dropped the ball on, taking everything very seriously, even when the situation called for more comedic takes.

AWinters wrote:Back on track...
In episode two I wasn't keen on the way Misato was directed to say "oh, there's this really cool place!" I think that could be buried over with one of the sound clips from the rebuild (whichever one you don't use for the rebuild itself, maybe?)


That line in Episode 2 has been replaced with the equivalent line from Amazon's 1.11 dub. It's still not the best delivery (mainly due to age), but it's infinitely better than the delivery originally. Keeping Funi's line for the 1.11 dub.

AWinters wrote:I think Misato's entire Funimation script may be better than her Amazon script.
I've had a thought on this;
Allison's voice has aged a bit between the two rebuild dubs and there's a tiny bit of roughness to her voice now.
So! I think it would be awesome to use her Funimation voice for 1.11 & 2.22 then switch over to her Amazon voice for the final two films.
This would give us the effect of her sounding older after 15 years.


That's a pretty good assessment of what will happen regarding Allison's Misato in Rebuild. Sticking to Funi for 1.11 and 2.22, then either switching completely to Amazon or using a mix for 3.33 (It'll likely be a mix, Funi's script in general is better). To be fair though, there may be a couple moments in the first two films where the Amazon Dub is used for Misato, largely due to liking the line better. An example would be in 1.11, in the scene where Shinji is getting utterly decimated by Ramiel the first time. I liked Amazon's "But, Shinji..." line better than Funi's "Yes, but..." line just before Misato calls for the destruction of the explosive bolts. Either way, 1.11 was the worst when it came to Allison's Misato in the Amazon Dubs, I felt she was much better in 2.22, had a better grasp of her voice there.

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Postby AWinters » Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:21 pm

View Original PostCoolJosh2002 wrote:So far, the only line I've had to outright use Keranen on was the "You're a boy aren't you!"

That line always bothered me too. If there was a backing track to hide a missing line, I'd be tempted to cut her off after "quit complaining" because I think the view cuts away from her in time to get away with it.

I really liked the voice of Funimation Rei, she sounds .. friendlier.
Original / Amazon Rei sounds more mysterious.
Just a fly-by idea, but it would be interesting to think about Funimation Rei as "Rei II" and Amazon Rei as "Rei III" (well, Rebuild equivalents of II & III).
The 2 Reis probably have to sound close enough in similarity though.
Just an idea to play with if you like.

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Re: Evangelion: The Definitive Dub Project

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Postby CoolJosh2002 » Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:54 pm

AWinters wrote:I really liked the voice of Funimation Rei, she sounds .. friendlier.
Original / Amazon Rei sounds more mysterious.
Just a fly-by idea, but it would be interesting to think about Funimation Rei as "Rei II" and Amazon Rei as "Rei III" (well, Rebuild equivalents of II & III).
The 2 Reis probably have to sound close enough in similarity though.
Just an idea to play with if you like.


In terms of Rei, for the purposes of consistency, I'll be sticking with Amanda for the entire runtime. Besides, I thought Amanda did a great job in the Amazon redubs, quite on par with what Brina did originally in the Funi dubs. I'll likely end up creating an alternate version of 1.11-3.33 that retains Palencia as Rei instead of Winn-Lee, it's the only performance where I thought the Amazon Dub was just as good as Funi's dub. (Although having Amy Seeley and Jason C. Lee as Maya and Aoba just had me grinning like an idiot the entire runtime.) Side note: It's so weird hearing Amanda's Rei have so much emotion, she was definitely the highlight of the 2.22 redub. (For some other characters: Ritsuko, Kaji, Hyuga, Mari, Kaworu, I'll be keeping Funi for the movies which they dubbed. In those cases I'm happy to sacrifice a small amount of consistency for what I deem is the better performance.)

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Postby CoolJosh2002 » Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:16 am

Update on Episode 3. Coming along nicely, currently going through and making some edits and replacing lines with lines from 1.11. Here's my list of alterations to make after my first viewing with the first rush:

Simulator
Maya's Line (Swap Benham for Glass, Seeley will be Maya for 1.11, so I'm fine with this. Quick note: I think Rial, Glass and Seeley are all great Maya's, and I can't really rate one above the others. As such, I'm happy to keep the consistency with Seeley here after EoE.)

School
Cut out some of Kurt Stoll's Vocalisations. Not all of them, but some, anything that's so painfully obvious.
"That's all for today." (Not dubbed by VSI, as such, will briefly switch to ADV. Volume for the line lowered to make it more obvious that the Sensei is being drowned out by his students.)
"They made me pilot the stupid thing!" (Switch out for Amazon 1.11, Amazon's version is a bit more subdued, I think it works better.)
Remove ADV Toji Vocalisations when he punches Shinji, too different from Bosch.

Preparations
Netflix Hyuga briefly heard in the background at the start? I rewatched it back and couldn't hear Cohen, so I might've been hearing things.
Switches from Netflix to ADV after black retraction. Initially questionable but then confirmed going through it. Simply cut out the ADV bit that bled in through the background noise.
"More obnoxious than the aliens!" (As much as I love this line, there's no reference to Aliens in the subs. As such, swapped out for Amazon 1.11, where Aliens becomes Jerks and is a bit more accurate.)

Shamshel
Both instances of the Platinum ADV Dub accidentally removing Shinji's lines. ("Why am I doing this? When I get beat up for it. etc" and "Yes") Added back in using Amazon 1.11. (Side note: I do have the Perfect Collection dub tracks, [Well... 1-8, and 12-20] so I could feasibly use those lines in there, but I feel like using 1.11 is better.)
"Launch!" (Amazon 1.11, Allison didn't quite have the power or tone behind this line yet. Just a bit too overacted still.)
"You've hidden the enemy in smoke!" (Maybe replace? Not sure yet. Amazon uses "What an idiot! Now you can't see a fricken thing!" Funi uses "Check your fire! You'll lose the target in the blast cloud!")
"Take the spare rifle! Subsequent Shinji's!" (Amazon 1.11 replacement.)
"Status report!" (Amazon 1.11 replacement. Although Amazon's translation is "Damage Report!" Still works.)
"Shinji's Classmates!" (Amazon 1.11 replacement. Gonna leave Funi's delivery for 1.11)
"Get in!" (Amazon 1.11 replacement.)
"Retreat!" (Amazon 1.11 replacement. Allison is still a little bit rough around the edges at this stage in the series.)
"Obey my orders!" (Amazon 1.11 replacement.)
"That idiot!" (You guessed it! Amazon 1.11 replacement. I will note that Allison has much better control of her voice at this point in Amazon's 1.11 dub. She's not as croaky as she is in the first half an hour or so.)
Contemplating using Caitlin Glass for all of Maya in this Episode? However I likely won't. Kendra Benham is pretty decent in this episode, unlike the last one where a lot of her lines during the Sachiel fight were swapped out. It's Allison who has a rougher time here.
Casey can still be heard when Shinji's crying. Still trying to figure out if it creates a cool effect or not, but I'll likely just leave it as just Spike.


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