This is something that I don't think I've seen brought up yet, and it's something that I never really thought of until now, but do you think Asuka's backstory of being a clone of an "original Asuka" is supposed to be metatextual commentary on the fact that (out of universe) she is a "copy" of the original NGE Asuka who will always be compared by fans to the "original" and struggle to live up to those expectations?

I feel like there's definitely a seed of something here but I'll be honest I didn't fully grasp what Asuka's backstory was actually supposed to be on my first watch so I'm going off incomplete data here.

I think Anno realized how toxic the OG Asuka was but she still got popular and Anno felt guilt for unintentionaly popularizing toxic behavior, so I guess thats probably why NTE Asuka got less tention.

Archer wrote:This is something that I don't think I've seen brought up yet, and it's something that I never really thought of until now, but do you think Asuka's backstory of being a clone of an "original Asuka" is supposed to be metatextual commentary on the fact that (out of universe) she is a "copy" of the original NGE Asuka who will always be compared by fans to the "original" and struggle to live up to those expectations?

I feel like there's definitely a seed of something here but I'll be honest I didn't fully grasp what Asuka's backstory was actually supposed to be on my first watch so I'm going off incomplete data here.

If we find out that Asuka is a clone from NGE Asuka, yes. Since I don't think we know that I just think Asuka's backstory is changed because the way eva's and a lot of the world works is completely different in the rebuild and her backstory has to change to fit whatever the condition of being a pilot is. I'm not counting out that future media will provide some more info on a lot of this kind of info.

Asuka doesn’t literally have to be a clone of NGE Asuka in-universe, I’m talking about her clone backstory as a parallel to her IRL status as a “copy” of the NGE Asuka.

I think Asuka's backstory is absolutely meant to be metatextual, but I'd say it's more of a reference to her role as the "famous Eva girl" who's constantly cloned through merchandise, but I'd honestly have to think a bit more on that. I do think NTE taking away some of her "humanity" and "uniqueness" while also making her a clone just like Rei was done for more than just newness.

My read of it is pretty simple, and it's to illustrate her uphill battle to be "the best" and emerge as the pilot who is best suited to pilot Unit 02 for NERV's EU branch, and her competition being clones turns it into a literal battle against herself. I don't take it as being a grand revelation; as it doesn't make her any less 'Asuka'.

The trickier subject is if there's any significance behind her "original". If she's seeing her original inside the entry plug like Shinji sees Yui in NGE, it's possible that the original Asuka was lost within the entry plug/core of 02 and the clones are just attempts to replicate her success in syncing with the Eva (all of her character flaws being maintained at 'Design Time'). They clearly have the same memories of childhood in common as well, so presumably they're all fail safes of an original pilot with her memories in tact. My guess is that they told each clone that they had competition for the role of an Eva pilot, and didn't elaborate on the fact that the "competition" was just other copies of them.

Whether 'Shikinami' is a maintained given name, a result of one parent assuming custody after the other died/left, or one given to the clones to distinguish them from the original (possibly named Soryu) is up to interpretation. I don't really see it as a meta commentary because there a lot that can be interpreted from the significance of it on an narrative, character-based level.

I just take it at face value that in SEELE'S original plans when Mark 6 was meant to be the last Eva - and before Gendo's N3I scheming and Kaji/Misato's WILLE work threw things in disarray and Mari being a rogue agent and that unplanned incident with Provisional Eva Unit 5 - all the pilots in some way shape or form were designed to be assets fully under the control of NERV & SEELE.

That Asuka finding hope and a bright future despite her upbringing being completely manipulated for a cause to be a beautiful thing. That a person can become the person they themselves want to be, regardless of what their past is or what the world tells them they "must be", is an uplifting message.

Whether she's a clone or not she's still a rich and wonderful character.

Asuka's still Asuka.

Space Sweeper wrote:I don't take it as being a grand revelation; as it doesn't make her any less 'Asuka'.

But doesn’t that still make her a little less human? You know, being created in a lab as a copy than being born naturally to parents like normal humans?

They clearly have the same memories of childhood in common as well, so presumably they're all fail safes of an original pilot with her memories in tact.

So that little Asuka from her memories was the one who died in the experiment, like Yui did?

C.T.1290 wrote:But doesn’t that still make her a little less human? You know, being created in a lab as a copy than being born naturally to parents like normal humans?

You mean the same way as Rei, Kaworu or manga Asuka, who are these universally hated figures for not being born naturally? As Space Sweeper said, it doesn't detract from her character in any way, shape or form.

Blockio wrote:You mean the same way as Rei, Kaworu or manga Asuka, who are these universally hated figures for not being born naturally? As Space Sweeper said, it doesn't detract from her character in any way, shape or form.

Well, okay, maybe not that less than human. They can still be considered human beings.

And how are they universally hated again? Sorry if this question comes off as dumb.

Was just hyperbole/a bit of sarcasm, Rei and Kaworu are just as beloved as Asuka is; I was just trying to use it to underline that it doesn't really make a difference

Blockio wrote:Was just hyperbole/a bit of sarcasm, Rei and Kaworu are just as beloved as Asuka is; I was just trying to use it to underline that it doesn't really make a difference

Okay, point taken.

C.T.1290 wrote:

Blockio#930396 wrote:You mean the same way as Rei, Kaworu or manga Asuka, who are these universally hated figures for not being born naturally? As Space Sweeper said, it doesn't detract from her character in any way, shape or form.

Well, okay, maybe not that less than human. They can still be considered human beings.

And how are they universally hated again? Sorry if this question comes off as dumb.

I'm not sure this is the point of the post but I'm leaning or at least thinking strongly the pilots are not human beings. I don't know if they were never human or were modified at a later time. Mari and Shinji's past or lack of are the only things that make me unsure what it is to be a pilot in rebuild.

I think at least PART of it is that Anno was trying to get away from the "moms in the core" lore which is no longer relevant in NTE, but was an extremely critical part of Asuka's original personality arc. Also, the movies didn't divert enough time for Asuka to have that kind of arc (plus 14 year time skip completely changes it anyway).

I don't think that anything in Evangelion must be absolutely taken as textual or metatextual. That's the richness of this, because there are multiple layers of meaning in this work.

I'll add what my brother reads from this scene: It really adds and builds why Rebuild's Asuka HATES the likes of Rei and Shinji so quickly. She had to work her ass off to be a pilot, even among her peer clones. To see that the other pilots came to be through favoritism and nepotism must had added insult to injury to the fact that one is a crybaby and the other one is an absolute doormat!

As for what "original Asuka" means, I think the clue is in that report about the "reallocation" of the failed pilot. Was she turned into a dummy plug core and later used for the dual system of the Eva-13? We do see the shadow of Kaworu behind her! Where did she come from before coming to whisk Shikinami's soul away?

Gendo'sPapa wrote:That Asuka finding hope and a bright future despite her upbringing being completely manipulated for a cause to be a beautiful thing. That a person can become the person they themselves want to be, regardless of what their past is or what the world tells them they "must be", is an uplifting message.

That's a very beautiful interpretation of the whole thing.

Blockio wrote:Was just hyperbole/a bit of sarcasm, Rei and Kaworu are just as beloved as Asuka is; I was just trying to use it to underline that it doesn't really make a difference

In universe (for NGE that is) they are, at least feared, at worst treated like dolls.

Humans will always look for excuses to treat others as sub-humans...

profesor_rod wrote:I As for what "original Asuka" means, I think the clue is in that report about the "reallocation" of the failed pilot. Was she turned into a dummy plug core and later used for the dual system of the Eva-13? We do see the shadow of Kaworu behind her! Where did she come from before coming to whisk Shikinami's soul away?

Okay, what they did to the other Shikinami types is just cruel. They’re treated as if they’re disposable! And I can imagine the agony of they been through, especially being used as the dummy core. As for Asuka’s upbringing, what kind of monsters would put her through that ordeal?

C.T.1290 wrote:As for Asuka’s upbringing, what kind of monsters would put her through that ordeal?

Seelee, through Euro NERV of course.

Luigi Shinji wrote:I think Anno realized how toxic the OG Asuka was but she still got popular and Anno felt guilt for unintentionaly popularizing toxic behavior, so I guess thats probably why NTE Asuka got less tention.

If Asuka is toxic, then so is everyine in this story.

kuribo-04 wrote:

Luigi Shinji#930287 wrote:I think Anno realized how toxic the OG Asuka was but she still got popular and Anno felt guilt for unintentionaly popularizing toxic behavior, so I guess thats probably why NTE Asuka got less tention.

If Asuka is toxic, then so is everyine in this story.

As a beloved philosopher of mine recently said: "You're not really toxic. It's just that, human nature is toxic". And at her core, that's just what Asuka is or well, was: a very human teenager girl, as showcased by episode's 22 continuous period tantrums. All that trauma, self loathing and sexual repression is just not easy to handle for the one person experimenting it let alone those around you.

That's where NTE's Asuka lost me, because I can't pinpoint what she really is or is supposed to represent. I mean, in 2.22 she was at her more OG Asuka-ish (I guess): proud, capable, a little feisty but with a strange sad girl vibe and all the nuance and rich aspects of her persona lost in translation, 3.33 comes and she's a sad bully without a reason (for what we know). Finally, Shin, and turns out she was a clone this whole time? Not really a bully but frustrated with her unchanging body, and not exactly sensitive either (shoving food in Shinji's mouth was dangerous Asu, you could've made him choke!). Also, her eternal sadness was always tied with being a clone, just as Rei, we love parallels!

The thing is, it just wasn't properly built up. And it feels like Asuka was cheated out of a proper storyline in a lazy and inexcusable way.

Diego wrote:3.33 comes and she's a sad bully without a reason (for what we know). .

Not to argue with the rest of your point but, and maybe it was just me, I found this bit understandable from the information presented in 2.0/3.0 without needing it spelled out further. Given they've been at War for 14 years, and presumably Asuka has been the speartip all that time out of necessity - as someone else on the forums said, Asuka comes off as embittered vet.

Plus, my thought was that Asuka's extra bitterness was that she got what she thought she wanted at the start 2.0 but last min realised there was more ("I'll be happy as long as I get to Pilot an EVA"/"I'm learning being with others isn't so bad"). That's what I took as the real "curse of the EVA" for her.

And then that bitterness is expressed with Asuka's worst impulses - hence becoming an out and out bully (and as an aside, I assumed a similar process with Misato being expressed differently).

So for me, it was built up on ok. Not sure wheat I think on the resolution, mind.