Is this a feeling of... Completeness? From Evangelion?

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Is this a feeling of... Completeness? From Evangelion?

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Postby GunmetalSnail429 » Wed Aug 18, 2021 8:58 pm

I just watched 3.0+1.0. This isn't a review or critique. I just need to get some stuff off my chest.

I'm going to need some time to fully process what I just watched, as well as to finally dive back into the forums on here and see what people far smarter than me have to say.

I discovered Evangelion in late 2010. I was 20 years old and had just watched my parent's marriage fall apart. I had recently gotten back into anime after an unintentional several-year hiatus, and I kept hearing about Neon Genesis Evangelion. I sat down and watched it, along with Death/Rebirth and EoE, and then watched the 2 available Rebuild movies.

I then delved into the manga. Not just the Sadamoto series, but the AU series as well (Shinj Ikari Raising Project, Angelic Days, etc).

I did all of this within a few days and was completely consumed. Evangelion sank its claws into me and has not let go in the decade+ since. I, like a lot of you I imagine, have had their own unique feelings about the Eva-verse, and how it has affected you. If you want to talk about them, please feel free to do so. I would love to hear them. I have a feeling I'm going to be on this forum a lot in the next few days.

That being said, I am unsure of how to really describe how I feel after watching 3.0+1.0. It was an experience I don't really know how to quantify. Knowing that this is the (for now) last official Evangelion animated project is... Bittersweet.

Evangelion has made me confront some things about myself that I never really wanted to, even if doing so took over a decade. I see a lot of myself in Shinji. The insecurity, the difficulties with facing tough situations, the frustration of having to live in a world that is both amazing and capable of so much cruelty, especially when dealt out by the ones we love.

Finishing 3.0+1.0 has left me with a feeling I haven't found with Eva before: Completeness. A concrete (if still slightly confusing) ending at last. Resolution. A promise fulfilled. Any and all of these. I am going to need a few days to let it soak in.

Ultimately, though, I'm... Relieved. These characters deserve the happiness they have finally found. It's been nearly 30 years since Eva first rocked the world and now we have reached a finale. A conclusion.

Maybe one day Hideaki will bring us back into this world. Maybe (and I know this is a hopeless wish, but who cares) we'll get an animated Shinji Ikari Raising Project, or Angelic Days. Maybe one day we'll see Mana Kirishima get her time in the spotlight. Evangelion is a story of repetition, after all.

Even if this is the FINAL Evangelion we ever get, it will be worth it. , so maybe that'll The Children have been through so much, and they deserve their rest. Evangelion is, and has been, a huge part of my life, for good and for bad, and to finally be able to say it's done is...

Well, I'm fine with that.
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Re: Is this a feeling of... Completeness? From Evangelion?

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Postby Archer » Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:42 pm

I definitely get that.

One of the things I really liked about EoE was its incompleteness. The ending is completely ambiguous, leaving the ultimate fate of Shinji, Asuka and the world completely up to interpretation. I think part of the beauty of End of Eva is that that Shinji and that Asuka probably won’t ever get their happy ending. And while I think it was an amazing ending, it definitely made me feel empty - almost certainly by design. Of course afterwards I had to read a shit ton of fan fiction to cope. (Thankfully Eva has a huge fanbase which means a shit ton of fanfiction - it wasn’t until I started looking up fanfic for other smaller franchises did I realize how privileged it is to be an Eva fan, lol). And you know what? 3.0+1.0 reminds me of a fanfic plot, but in the best way possible. Because it gives Shinji (and the others) a happy ending not by changing who Shinji is, but by changing his circumstances. I’ve already written a longpost about how 3.0+1.0 flips the Eva script on its head by giving Shinji actual positive adult role models, and friends who aren’t dead or comatose, to help him recover from his trauma. And it would have been SO easy to go the lazy route that so many fix-fics do and just have Shinji magically and spontaneously decide to man up and do many un-Shinji-like things for the sole purpose of trying to tack a happy ending onto Evangelion. But instead, pretty much the entire first hour of the movie is devoted to showing how slow and tortuous of a process it is for him to stop blaming himself, accept the support and affection of those who care about him, and decide to move past his problems of his own accord.

Shinji’s realistic and believable recovery process earns him the right to do un-Shinji-like things like actually talking things out with his dad, which is an issue that went almost entirely unresolved in EoE (beyond Gendo thinking to himself “Yeah, I was kind of a shitty dad wasn’t I?” before getting nommed by Unit-01). So despite the pretty big issues I still have with how parts of the movie are handled, the way Anno actually managed to create a happy ending for Evangelion that feels entirely earned and not forced or artificial just completely blows my mind.

Bravo Anno, you created the ultimate Evangelion fix-fic.

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Re: Is this a feeling of... Completeness? From Evangelion?

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Postby Axx°N N. » Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:10 pm

View Original PostArcher wrote:One of the things I really liked about EoE was its incompleteness.

This. The things EoE were 'missing' is what made it an interesting and distinct narrative for me. To put it in another way, I don't think The Metamorphosis is incomplete because Gregor Samsa doesn't turn back into a dude, win the lottery, and find a bouncy-breasted girlfriend.

I don't fault anyone for preferring happy endings, and I'm not against them if they're justified. But to me that's the distinction with Shin--it seemed preoccupied with getting to a happy/positive end no matter what it meant, and to me it meant a lot of faults in pacing and consistency, both in terms of character and plot. Per Archer above, whose perspective I like, I think the beats were all put in place--I just don't think they were dwelled on enough and that a lot of other beats clashed with the melody.
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Re: Is this a feeling of... Completeness? From Evangelion?

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Postby BernardoCairo » Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:33 pm

I can totally relate to you, man. It's been a while since I became an Evangelion fan. Needless to say, it was a game changer for me. I could write a whole text about how "EoTV" and EoE deeply touched my heart, but that's not necessary, as I can summarize everything in one line. It broke me so I could rebuild myself. It sucked when I saw myself in Shinji, Asuka and Misato. However, in hindsight, that was crucial to me. It opened my eyes and allowed me to understand a lot about myself.
I legitimately love this franchise and most of the memories that come with it. Now, after watching Shin, I feel like it's over, in a way. Frankly, I'm not even thinking about the movie that much. It's different from when I watched EOE for the first time, for example. That movie was stuck in my head for months! In fact, I vividly remember the first time I experienced it. It brings me emotions to this day.
Again, Shin is different. It simply fulfilled me. I loved watching it and now it's over. It was an emotional experience and I want to remember it forever. Still, I don't feel the need to think about it all the time or even discuss Evangelion with others. I'm satisfied. Don't get me wrong, I want to talk about it, eventually. I'm just not desperate to do so. This is new to me.
I never really cared much about NTE as a standalone work of art, but then again, Shin is different. It's nice to see Shinji, Gendo, Asuka and Misato going their separate ways. Speaking of Asuka, I feel like I'm finally okay with Shikinami being her own character. Honestly, I realized something. I've always been a fan of Soryu, projecting her onto Shikinami. One is my favorite Evangelion character, the other is just "cool" and I'm fine with that (especially after the last movie, in which she plays a big role).
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Re: Is this a feeling of... Completeness? From Evangelion?

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Postby RussianRiz » Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:57 pm

This was the first movie in which I cried, and I cried a lot.

"Completeness" is the perfect word to say here. It is the completion of an entire journey that began a few years ago in my life. For me, it was also the closing of a cycle. I can relate very well with what you said.

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Re: Is this a feeling of... Completeness? From Evangelion?

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Wed Aug 18, 2021 11:13 pm

I'm having that feeling of completeness with Evangelion as well.

Thrice Upon A Time was a strong and complete ending to the universe for me. I feel there's little to debate in because it's all so personal to me.

I'm honestly struggling to engage in the forum right now because I just don't know what to add at the moment. I have no desire to debate or find out what some of the vague terminology means or the history behind them. Nor am I interested in debating who ends up with who or who should have ended up with who. I have no interest in what happened in the 14 years between the films. I have no desire in hypothesizing what could be next for Evangelion. All that, to me, feels so contradictory to the feel of the movie which was live your life.

I'm struggling just to put this into words because the film connected with me on such a primal level.

I feel complete with the series. I loved the ending. I loved what they did with Shinji. I just loved it.

I'm sure I'll engage with a few topics here and there but this is not the feeling I had after 1.0, 2.0 or 3.0 where I could spend hours talking about the films and what comes next on here. I feel the film speaks for itself and what it speaks, to me, is so personal I don't know what to add at the moment.

I loved the film clearly. I'll likely debate things about it later but for now I just want to luxuriate in the finale.

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Re: Is this a feeling of... Completeness? From Evangelion?

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Postby Zusuchan » Thu Aug 19, 2021 5:49 am

Even though I'm not entirely sure about some of Shin's finer details, it does very much feel "complete" at the end and seems like a fitting ending for not just NTE, but also NGE/EoE. Honestly, I don't think there's any real point to further Eva works after this-Shin is very much a grand conclusion.

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Re: Is this a feeling of... Completeness? From Evangelion?

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Postby Blockio » Thu Aug 19, 2021 1:51 pm

I quite agree. After watching Shin, I felt at peace with Eva, and for the first time really understood what Anno means with saying goodbye to Eva; as far as I'm concerned, I'm good with not having another Eva series for quite a while.
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Re: Is this a feeling of... Completeness? From Evangelion?

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Postby xtr00kvltcorex » Thu Aug 19, 2021 5:46 pm

Agreed on many aspects. I first got into Eva when I was 11 (23 years ago :sniffle: ), but I didn't give it the in-depth watch it required until I was in my early 20s...coincidentally when i first joined this lovely forum. there was a time when it too had me confront aspects of my self, while also, in its own Eva way, was a comfort of sorts. Super lonely time in my life. Glad it had an impact on you.
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Re: Is this a feeling of... Completeness? From Evangelion?

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Postby Tumbling Down » Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:15 am

You know, I was just logging in to start my own thread about how the ending of 3.0 + 1.0 upset me, but I think it makes more sense to respond directly to your thread, because the reaction you describe is the exact opposite of mine.

The message of Evangelion is that life is hard and so is connecting with other people, but we should go on living regardless, because those connections make life worthwhile. To deliver this message and give a sense of completeness, 3.0 + 1.0 should have ended with an adult Shinji in the village helping to Rebuild. That's what I was expecting before those last few minutes. Instead, in an even worse version of EoTV, we see him exit the harsh world he was born into and enter a world of fantasy where all these hardships he's faced don't even exist. Reality is subjective, just choose your own reality, man. Kaworu is still alive and so is your mom probably, and you have a Manic Pixie Dream Girlfriend.

I get that Shinji used the power of God to wish for this world, so it's not all literally hypothetical like in EoTV, but it's still a terrible message and the opposite of what this franchise is about. EoE had him wish to go on living in reality, and when he made that wish, it was portrayed as the ultimate triumph, like when the Avengers defeated Thanos or Luke Skywalker blew up the death star. EoE makes every day where I get out of bed instead of lying down and dying feel like a victory in itself, and that's why I find it so inspiring.

That's gone now. For what purpose? I had expected and hoped that the time loop would be caused, at least metaphorically, by the refusal of the fans to let the franchise go, and I'm glad I got that, but the way the message was given (having Shinji lead a nice life in a new world without his trauma) seemed like a massive insult to people like me who found EoE inspirational. It's like the final message was that you shouldn't be looking for advice in art, that art is just art, grow up. Is that it?

I'm happy for everyone who somehow found this movie uplifting, even though I have no idea how they could. I find it depressing. I'd actually rather 3.33 have ended up like Half-Life 2: Episode 2. No conclusion is better than an insulting one.

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Re: Is this a feeling of... Completeness? From Evangelion?

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Postby Konja7 » Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:09 am

View Original PostTumbling Down wrote:Reality is subjective, just choose your own reality, man. Kaworu is still alive and so is your mom probably, and you have a Manic Pixie Dream Girlfriend.


I'm pretty sure Yui dissapeared along Gendo.

Or you mean Rei? Like Kaworu, Rei is restored to life (since she died in 2.22), but she isn't really Shinji's mother.

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Re: Is this a feeling of... Completeness? From Evangelion?

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Postby GhostlyOcam » Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:50 pm

I feel like I emerged from the 2 hour and 35 minutes of the film feeling... enlightened. Never have I felt touched, understood, and comforted by a film like this. It's probably my deepest cinema experience, and I've seen stuff from Malick, Kubrick, Bergman, and Tarkovsky! (Not trying to sound like I'm bragging, but giving a perspective of the effects it had on me compared to other stuff I've seen)

It's not even a perfect film, lots of questionable stuff going on in-between, but in the end what matters is how it makes me feel, and what it means to me. I felt nothing but joy and peace, and moved on from the film with a newfound mindset of appreciating all things in life, the good and bad one, that everyone I've ever met and everything that ever happened to me will always be a part of me. Not saying I'm a BETTER person than before, but I'm comfortable with myself who have watched Evangelion: 3.0+1.0 Thrice Upon a Time.

It's baffling that they could achieve this with all the doom and gloom after 3.0, but they did. Anno and his team are way beyond me at this point. So yeah, there's a sense of completion, a closure, for me, for Anno, for everyone involved in the making, and for the Evangelion in me.
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Re: Is this a feeling of... Completeness? From Evangelion?

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Postby Tumbling Down » Sat Aug 21, 2021 2:09 am

View Original PostGhostlyOcam wrote:I feel like I emerged from the 2 hour and 35 minutes of the film feeling... enlightened. Never have I felt touched, understood, and comforted by a film like this. It's probably my deepest cinema experience, and I've seen stuff from Malick, Kubrick, Bergman, and Tarkovsky! (Not trying to sound like I'm bragging, but giving a perspective of the effects it had on me compared to other stuff I've seen)

Okay but.. why? Are you able to explain why it made you feel this way? I'm not saying you're wrong to have these feelings, but I can't understand how someone can have this reaction, and I want to. It feels like this movie, at least in its last few minutes, either backtracks on the message of the franchise, insults the audience for ever caring, or both.

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Re: Is this a feeling of... Completeness? From Evangelion?

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Postby GhostlyOcam » Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:46 am

I have a big thread on Twitter coming, which won't happen anytime soon. Give me a few days for me to absorb everything, and once I'm done writing it, I'm more than excited to share it here!

As Gendo's Papa said, it's all very personal and honestly there's little to debate, but that's okay.

Life experiences affected our views, how we perceive things including art, and that's okay. I'm not planning to convert and "force" anyone to agree with me, but at the very least I want to make people understand WHY.

So I hope, once it exists in a readable form, you can read and understand. Until then, please wait! ^_^
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Re: Is this a feeling of... Completeness? From Evangelion?

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Postby Archer » Sat Aug 21, 2021 7:39 am

@tumbling down you’ve already read my long ass write up about the village scene and how it relates/contrasts 3.0 and EoE so you know the main reason I really like the movie. But I also recommend giving the train station thread a read, since there’s a lot of confusion about what’s actually happening in that scene and we were discussing what exactly the ending was trying to imply. While it certainly CAN be read that Shinji created a new universe to run away from his problems, it’s just as equally valid to read it as him rewriting the existing world to remove Evas and their corruption. We discuss a lot of the supporting evidence for both viewpoints and while I think ultimately it was left intentionally ambiguous, there’s easily enough evidence (and really no real contradictions) for you to believe whichever ending makes you happy.

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Re: Is this a feeling of... Completeness? From Evangelion?

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Postby Axx°N N. » Sat Aug 21, 2021 8:06 pm

View Original PostTumbling Down wrote:It's like the final message was that you shouldn't be looking for advice in art, that art is just art, grow up. Is that it?

I felt Shin was hollow too. But I don't think the message had to do with art or art's function. Part of what makes me think that is that the Rebuild series is more of a blockbuster than serious art, attached to a multimedia empire, and clearly is genuine when it occupies itself with action and sexuality for its own sake from the standpoint not of thematic expression but entertainment media consumption. Second is that part of growing up can and does result in taking art more seriously both as a practice and experience, and not disposable as if it were a commodity or plain make-believe.

I think the Rebuild films are more heavily invested in Anno's experiences and his views on these characters and how to resolve them on a dramatic and metatextual level as opposed to doing any kind of advisement. If it resonates with people, it's because they relate to how Anno wants to perceive his creations and how they intertwine with the real world. They agree on its value expressions. A material aspect of that is that compared to the old circumstance, Evangelion a last-shot risk given that Gainax was on the verge of bankruptcy, and Anno so uninvolved in the business side that the head honchos were actively short-shrifting talent, nowadays he's heavily involved himself in the business side of things and has engendered a media empire based on Evangelion as a franchise with himself as head retainer, and that whatever he feels about his relationship to his franchise and his values can't be separated from the reality of his recent financial life and obligations (as mentioned here in his statement on priorities). When the ending takes its characters, cleans them of the dilemmas they dwell on and pushes them into a metropolitan city but without any impression the city itself is something to probe or analyze, that just means Rebuild and Anno are unconcerned with that line of thought. If you disagree, it's best to find art that agrees with your impulses for what's meaningful in art and life.
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Re: Is this a feeling of... Completeness? From Evangelion?

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Postby kuribo-04 » Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:41 am

It's definitely a way of acknowledging ReiQ during the conclusion (RIP ;_;). Dunno if there is an actual connection. Maybe?

View Original PostTumbling Down wrote:(having Shinji lead a nice life in a new world without his trauma)

I don't think this happened at all. Shinji says he won't revert time. That he'll just rewrite the world into one without Evas. The consequence just seems to be what we see during the "Voyager sequence". The very last scene with adult Shinji I wouldn't take too literally (lots of inconsistemcies, like Shinji having his Choker on...why was it not taken away after years? And him not responding to seeing Rei, Kaworu and Asuka).

That said I still have to think hard about this film

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