Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby The Killer of Heroes » Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:23 am

View Original PostZusuchan wrote:^I actually just watched the original MSG movie trilogy by Tomino on Netflix and was...pleasantly surprised by how much I liked them, especially after my not-very-fond memory of Turn A's first episode. They still had a lot of problems (them being condensed versions of a longer TV show came off clearly with how certain events and character motivations did not seem to have the necessary amount of build-up and certain events did feel rushed; the action largely bored me unless it managed to weave character stuff into it; the three small kids were completely out of place; etc) and I liked them ultimately more as a showcase of an important cultural artefact that has had an intense amount of influence on anime as a whole than as actual artworks in themselves. But I still liked them and they were a lot better than I'd expected them to be-Char and the genuine feeling of "war anime" were my favorite parts of them.
First Gundam honestly holds up better than most anything Tomino did after IMHO, and the movies cut out a fair bit of filler and such from the TV show on top of that (Some of which I like but still).

Stuff you complain about in the MSG movies- some battles not having character stuff in it, addition of annoying kids etc., actually gets worse in Tomino's work over time (He LOVES having a literal crying baby in there somewhere), especially as he gets trapped in formula of episode after episode of pointless conflicts that change nothing and take up half of each episode as it is.

Turn A is the one exception to this, but I didn't like that for different reasons which is to its credit I guess.

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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Blockio » Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:42 pm

View Original PostThe Killer of Heroes wrote:First Gundam honestly holds up better than most anything Tomino did after IMHO, and the movies cut out a fair bit of filler and such from the TV show on top of that (Some of which I like but still).

I believe that in a heartbeat, lol.
I tried watching TV 0079 way back in the day; found the pacing positively abhorrent and dropped it some 5 to 10 episodes in; when I do give it another watch, it will definitely be the movies.
I love Turn A quite a lot, but nothing else that I've seen of Tomino clears the bar for being worth the time it takes to watch it
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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Gus Hanson » Sat Aug 28, 2021 6:51 pm

Took another shot at watching 08th MS Team in Japanese and was so surprised that nearing episode 1's ending, it was Michel who said the "We're going to Earth and wipe as many Zeon as we can" in response to the infamous Gihren Zabi speech. All these decades, I got it mixed up with one of the other soldiers.
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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Zusuchan » Sun Aug 29, 2021 5:09 am

The Killer of Heroes wrote:First Gundam honestly holds up better than most anything Tomino did after IMHO, and the movies cut out a fair bit of filler and such from the TV show on top of that (Some of which I like but still).

Based on everything I've heard about the TV show (and the fact most Gundam fans implore people to start with the movies rather than the very first original work does say something), I can absolutely believe the movies are better and cut out some unnecessary stuff. But their nature as compilation movies do come back to bite them sometimes, though maybe if there'd been less interest in action-for-action and a more economical approach to it, there'd have been more time to actually focus on build-up of certain things. But I can't really blame Tomino, seeing as MSG was still considered a commercial product made to sell toys first and foremost by the investors and as how it was genuinely progressive for its time.

Stuff you complain about in the MSG movies- some battles not having character stuff in it, addition of annoying kids etc., actually gets worse in Tomino's work over time (He LOVES having a literal crying baby in there somewhere), especially as he gets trapped in formula of episode after episode of pointless conflicts that change nothing and take up half of each episode as it is.

That doesn't really sound good, though then again around half of Tomino's work already has a less-than-stellar reputation. Personally, I'm more interested in watching Zeta next and that seems to be considered pretty great*. I'll leave stuff with the reputation of Brain Powerd or Garzey's Wing for when I've seen more Tomino than I have now and can more accurately judge whether it'd be interesting for me.


*I did promise to Blockio to watch IBO at some point too, though, lol.

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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby The Killer of Heroes » Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:06 pm

View Original PostZusuchan wrote:But their nature as compilation movies do come back to bite them sometimes
Is there specific thing you had in mind here? Like some of the cuts in the movie do probably rely on audience filling in the blanks with their knowledge of the TV series, but some aspects might not actually be results of cuts and instead what people on this forum used to refer to as "lolTomino".

though maybe if there'd been less interest in action-for-action and a more economical approach to it, there'd have been more time to actually focus on build-up of certain things. But I can't really blame Tomino, seeing as MSG was still considered a commercial product made to sell toys first and foremost by the investors and as how it was genuinely progressive for its time.
Yeah, while MSG is a product of its era and is definitely held back by it, its still has notably more going on than most other 70's mecha anime of the time. Like if you watch any Mazinger Z or even something like Tomino's own Brave Raideen, the jump up in writing quality in MSG is noticeable and it becomes easier to see how it paved the way for better stuff down the line like NGE.

Still, stuff like monster of the week format becomes more puzzling in later works like Victory Gundam (1993!!!!) or G-Reco (2014!!!!!!!!) and it becomes harder not to blame Tomino in these later works for that. Like Iron-Blooded Orphans (A non Tomino Gundam) came out the year after G-Reco did and had whole episodes with no mecha battles.

That doesn't really sound good, though then again around half of Tomino's work already has a less-than-stellar reputation. Personally, I'm more interested in watching Zeta next and that seems to be considered pretty great*. I'll leave stuff with the reputation of Brain Powerd or Garzey's Wing for when I've seen more Tomino than I have now and can more accurately judge whether it'd be interesting for me.
Zeta had that reputation, but it seems to be much more split these days if impressions from Reddit threads, MAL posts etc. are any indication. Would be curious to know what you think if you get around to watching it.

Brain Powerd is a huge mess, but honestly the English dub elevates Garzey's Wing to amusing camp at least (And it helps that its only three episodes long too).

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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Zusuchan » Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:54 am

The Killer of Heroes wrote:Is there specific thing you had in mind here? Like some of the cuts in the movie do probably rely on audience filling in the blanks with their knowledge of the TV series, but some aspects might not actually be results of cuts and instead what people on this forum used to refer to as "lolTomino".

Well, for example, the relationship between Kai and the Zeon spy goes by quite quickly, Mirai's attraction to the hotshot pilot comes out of practically nowhere, I feel like there really should have been a bit more of Lalah and Amuro or at least a bit more focus on Amuro bonding with her, and I'm pretty sure that Char told Sayla to be with Amuro because she loved him which is a plot point that also wasn't really significantly built up in the movies. Those would be the bigger problems for me, along with at-times too fast pace, which could also be a "lolTomino" thing based on what I know of the man.

Still, stuff like monster of the week format becomes more puzzling in later works like Victory Gundam (1993!!!!) or G-Reco (2014!!!!!!!!) and it becomes harder not to blame Tomino in these later works for that.

I heard that Victory was somewhat fucked over by the producers' demands, but then again, from what I do know of him, Tomino is very much an Interesting Fellow(TM).

Zeta had that reputation, but it seems to be much more split these days if impressions from Reddit threads, MAL posts etc. are any indication. Would be curious to know what you think if you get around to watching it.

Hmm, interesting. I'll make a note to write something in this thread once I've watched it. If you wish, I can PM you that I've done so.

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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Blockio » Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:59 am

View Original PostZusuchan wrote:Well, for example, the relationship between Kai and the Zeon spy goes by quite quickly, Mirai's attraction to the hotshot pilot comes out of practically nowhere

Without having seen either form of 0079, that stuff sounds like fairly par for the course Tomino, the man has strange priorities on what to give and not give screentime sometimes; but could very much also be just a thing that was cut for runtime in the movies for all I know.
I heard that Victory was somewhat fucked over by the producers' demands, but then again, from what I do know of him, Tomino is very much an Interesting Fellow(TM).

I'm watching (or rather, "putting myself through" might be the more accurate descriptor) Victory currently; the producer demands were only really noticable for the first handful of episodes (that is to say, a completely reshuffled order of the first six episodes to have the completed Victory Gundam show up in the first), all the weirdness after that by all accounts seems to be solidly just Tomino doing his own thing and noone else telling him to stop when really someone should have
I can see why Gendo hired Misato to do the actual commanding. He tried it once and did an appalling job. ~ AWinters
Your point of view is horny, and biased. ~ glitz2hard
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu

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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Blockio » Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:36 pm

Watched three more episodes of Victory tonight; starting with Uso's mom getting flattened in the world record for warship high jump, over incoherent and extremely hamfisted rambling about enviromental pollution and ending with biker valhalla, this was one hell of a ride for all the wrong reasons. I swear to god this show is finding ways to be both disappointing and unintentionally hilarious in the worst possible moments that I didn't even think were possible. If this show had even an ounce of self-awareness, it would be the best parody of the Gundam franchise far and wide
I can see why Gendo hired Misato to do the actual commanding. He tried it once and did an appalling job. ~ AWinters
Your point of view is horny, and biased. ~ glitz2hard
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu

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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby FelipeFritschF » Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:02 pm


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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby cyharding » Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:54 pm

...lolTomino?
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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Justacrazyguy » Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:20 am

For the love of God Tomino, finish the Reconguista movies soon so the world can see your madness 2 or 3 more times. Sure, the Hathaway moves were written by him, and you can tell, but it's not quite the same thing.
Last edited by Justacrazyguy on Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Blockio » Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:23 am

...loltomino indeed.
I can see why Gendo hired Misato to do the actual commanding. He tried it once and did an appalling job. ~ AWinters
Your point of view is horny, and biased. ~ glitz2hard
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu

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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Gus Hanson » Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:12 pm

Been marathoning 08th MS Team subbed, up to episode 3 and I am simply hypnotized by Nobuyuki Hiyama as Shiro. I didn't even know that after finishing that role, he appeared in Seed as Azrael.
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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby hui43210 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:30 am

We're finally getting a proper, most likely AU, TV Gundam again! https://twitter.com/SUNRISEINC7/status/ ... 63137?s=19

Pretty hyped although we don't know anything beyond the title at this point. I do wonder if the title means we're getting a female main character for the first time? I heard that's what Tomino wanted to do for Turn A but got shot down by Sunrise, hence all the crossdressing in that show. Meanwhile....

https://twitter.com/SUNRISEINC7/status/ ... 65441?s=19

Another UC movie.... can't say I'm really interested in this one yet.

They're also going to be compressing IBO into 9 episodes. Not sure if there's a greater purpose to that but we'll see.
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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Blockio » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:14 am

As I understand it, that won't be just compilation movies, but also an OVA adaptation of the video game that's been in the works for a while; it would certainly explain why they took three years to give us a release date.
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In the program, a part of the latest work "Mobile Suit Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans: Urzhunt", which the staff of "Mobile Suit Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans" TV series reunited to work on, will be broadcasted.

And yeah, same. Hyped for Witch from Mercury and the IBO stuff, but UC can just about go rot in a corner as far as I'm concerned. Unless we're getting a Blue Destiny/Missing Link adaptation, I could hardly care less for more OYW shit.
I can see why Gendo hired Misato to do the actual commanding. He tried it once and did an appalling job. ~ AWinters
Your point of view is horny, and biased. ~ glitz2hard
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu

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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby hui43210 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:51 am

Ah okay that makes sense. I remember hearing about more IBO coming in some form but it was so long ago. Heck, wasn't a 00 movie announced like 5 years ago never to be heard from again? Or was that just a fever dream I had lol.
I mean, predictability is the central attraction and the narrative hook that we've all come to expect from the Evangelion franchise. How come Anno can't realize this? Twice? - FreakyFilmFan4ever

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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Blockio » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:59 am

There was a thing of some description announced and quite heavily teased at with the stage play (lead suits also got some metal builds at this point), but nothing came out of it so far; for the movie you're probably thinking of the Seed movie
I can see why Gendo hired Misato to do the actual commanding. He tried it once and did an appalling job. ~ AWinters
Your point of view is horny, and biased. ~ glitz2hard
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu

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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby hui43210 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:05 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM9qWIgtklc This is what I was thinking of. Don't know if they're ever going to follow up on it at this rate.
I mean, predictability is the central attraction and the narrative hook that we've all come to expect from the Evangelion franchise. How come Anno can't realize this? Twice? - FreakyFilmFan4ever

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Postby cyharding » Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:11 pm

View Original PostBlockio wrote:As I understand it, that won't be just compilation movies, but also an OVA adaptation of the video game that's been in the works for a while; it would certainly explain why they took three years to give us a release date.

Is that the one where the setting is on Venus and the colony is basically space Venice? I thought that was really neat.
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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Blockio » Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:36 pm

View Original Posthui43210 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM9qWIgtklc This is what I was thinking of. Don't know if they're ever going to follow up on it at this rate.

Oh yeah, that was at the end of the dvd for the stage play recording

cyharding wrote:Is that the one where the setting is on Venus and the colony is basically space Venice? I thought that was really neat.

Yeah, exactly the thing. Like anything else in the timeline, has an absolutely immaculate vibe
I can see why Gendo hired Misato to do the actual commanding. He tried it once and did an appalling job. ~ AWinters
Your point of view is horny, and biased. ~ glitz2hard
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu


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