Evangelion manga "day before Q" what can we expect in that manga.

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Re: Evangelion manga "day before Q" what can we expect in that manga.

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Postby Axx°N N. » Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:06 am

View Original PostKonja7 wrote:I really doubt the happy ending in Shin is because Anno wants to be audience-pleasing. If he wanted to be audience-pleasing, Asuka will likely have more protagonism in the ending.

The (happy) ending is likely influenced for the current emotional state of Anno, but that also apply to all Evangelion.

Also, I don't think the happy ending in Shin is inorganic. It fits the narrative.

Asuka given protagonism, you mean like in this manga? I don't think NTE is above audience considerations; it began as an attempt to be more understandable and accessible from a market standpoint, and Shin has the highest audience satisfaction rating on Filmmarks possible. I agree though, I don't doubt it comes from a personal place, but that doesn't mean from a writing standpoint there can't be miscalculations. I for one don't find much about it that feels organic, especially Mari, who many have already discussed as not making sense outside metacontext, and who has always existed from a place literally outside the narrative in function, conception, and production. You can't simultaneously make the auteur argument about this and that being personal when Mari (and Asuka) were worked on by other chefs in the kitchen, including, again, in this manga.

And to me, Shinji's apotheosis feels an awful lot like Anno himself going through a checklist.

View Original PostKonja7 wrote:No, it doesn't come across that way. He's just saying goodbye, since they told each other everything they had to say (Asuka said it before the final battle).

Also, I'm sure Shinji knows Asuka well enough to know that she wants to live.

Yes, it does? I kid, but my impression is my impression.

What Asuka was saying was specifically about Bardiel, not about the psychedelic mind-trip she's been on. They don't talk about it at all as people from within it and experiencing it. Even EoE (entirely non-verbally) has more of a sense that they're on the same base regarding the disorientation of the experience, and so on that level have solidarity. Shin just seems like Shinji condescending from on high with Asuka given no voice.
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Re: Evangelion manga "day before Q" what can we expect in that manga.

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Postby Kendrix » Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:10 am

Well, if you really wanna get down to it you could postulate that because of the nature of minus space & instrumentality, that he would know when they were done talking.

But mostly, we know she had nothing more to say cause she didn't say anything.

There are many quiet background shots in that scene, Asuka had time to turn around & act all embarassed, if she wanted to make a verbal response there's absolutely nothing suggesting that she couldn't.
The camera lingers on her expressions, both in the actual beach sequence & when she wakes up in the plug.
They did think about what she's feeling, it's just not "wanting to say something more to Shinji"
She basically did say everything she had left to say before leaving to the big battle.
Throughout most of the movie, it's her who talk and talks about her feelings, her life etc. while Shinji sits in a corner.

If you want to say the transition was sudden that only really applies to Mari's line (and that was probably a memory of Mari, just like the memory of Kensuke - the actual Mari was not actually in minus space at the time. The meaning behind the "take care of yourself/be well" line is probably "your friends would want you to take care of yourself" - see the earlier scenes where Mari does her hair & worries about her wellbeing while Asuka had little hope or joy left & acted somewhat self-destructive, having nothing to lose etc. )
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Re: Evangelion manga "day before Q" what can we expect in that manga.

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Postby bogusman » Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:16 am

View Original PostKendrix wrote:

If you want to say the transition was sudden that only really applies to Mari's line (and that was probably a memory of Mari, just like the memory of Kensuke - the actual Mari was not actually in minus space at the time.


Well, yeah maybe that Mari's part that was really short that made an impression like it was abrupt.


View Original PostKonja7 wrote:
View Original Postbogusman#925030 wrote:Would we know that she had nothing left to say?

When Shinji reveals he has feeling for her, Asuka blush and says "bak-Shinji" (?). She doesn't say anymore after that.

The scene is short, but there is time to say something if Asuka wants.


Well she might still be thinking or undecided. But as we know, it's all open for assumption and interpretation, so one's different assumption may not be wrong.

Anyway, is she really said that ? "bak-Shinji"? I don't recall that
Last edited by bogusman on Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Evangelion manga "day before Q" what can we expect in that manga.

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Postby Kendrix » Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:21 am

Uh, yes?
Miyamura even talked about it in the interviews.

If you don't even remember that much maybe you should rewatch it (and I mean the leaked video with acting & expressoions, not just the script - video of the full scene has in fact been camripped, I'm still waiting for a complete Rei and/or kaworu sequence) before making big definite statements about it
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Re: Evangelion manga "day before Q" what can we expect in that manga.

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Postby bogusman » Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:30 am

View Original PostKendrix wrote:Uh, yes?
Miyamura even talked about it in the interviews.

If you don't even remember that much maybe you should rewatch it (and I mean the leaked video with acting & expressoions, not just the script - video of the full scene has in fact been camripped, I'm still waiting for a complete Rei and/or kaworu sequence) before making big definite statements about it



View Original PostKonja7 wrote:When Shinji reveals he has feeling for her, Asuka blush and says "baka-Shinji" (?). She doesn't say anymore after that.


She did say that, but as i remember she said "baka Shinji" before he confess.


I've watched the camrip several time though, but idk maybe those who watched on the theater knows better.
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Re: Evangelion manga "day before Q" what can we expect in that manga.

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Postby T. K. Simon » Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:08 am

Reishin: 2007-2009

Kawoshin: 2012-2012

Asushin: 2009-2021

:devil:

Well, joking aside, I would have preferred it to end only that, with mari (although not confirmed), you can understand the meta-comment and everything, but as long as the characters have a development of their "relationship" (something that Mari and Shinji don't have)

Likewise, Khara will never have the balls to canonically match Shinji

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Sorry for my english, its not my native language

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Re: Evangelion manga "day before Q" what can we expect in that manga.

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Postby bogusman » Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:33 am

View Original PostT. K. Simon wrote:Likewise, Khara will never have the balls to canonically match Shinji


Agreed, more or less.

Tbh I didn't expect any romantical related stuff in rebuild era. That's why i was kinda surprised with this movie, and now the manga.
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Re: Evangelion manga "day before Q" what can we expect in that manga.

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Postby BernardoCairo » Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:42 am

I really think that Shin's ending is not trying to make a stand on LAS in any way. In fact, it goes out of its way to validate Shinji and Asuka's feelings for one another (which is much more than what any other ship got, to be honest). It didn't happen because that was not the ending Khara wanted to tell. That said, much like any other ship, it will live through its fanbase. There are people shipping Shinji with Misato and Ayanami to this day. I find this weird on so many levels, but I'm fine with its existence. People are entitled to enjoy and talk about whatever they want to. Personally, I believe this community would be better if everyone understood this. Instead, people like to argue about the "morality" of fictional relationships. Let me tell you something. All of these relationships are flawed by nature. There's no one perfect in Evangelion. That's the whole point. If it was all fun and games, the narrative would get stale and no one would care about what's going on. The closest thing to an actual healthy relationship in NGE is Toji and Hikari's bond. So it makes sense that we got to see that. Likewise, it makes sense for Shinji to end up alone (or with Mari, depending on how you look at things). No one was expecting any less. I've seen more people complaining about shippers freaking out over the ending than shippers freaking out over the ending. People have this weird view that the LAS community, for example, is made up of cartoonish baddies ready to attack anyone who disagrees with their ideas. That's simply not true. Almost everyone understands that Evangelion is not exactly a romantic story. It uses romance to touch on subtle themes (in the same way it taps a lot into parental relationships). That was never an issue (on the contrary). I can guarantee you that most people are fine with the ending in this regard. The only thing I saw was a few Kaworu fans complaining on Twitter at the time of the movie's release. Of course, some might argue that I haven't seen much of this because I don't go to sites like 5chan. Sure, that's true. That said, I feel these people are in the minority.
I know there are crazy shippers out there. People who do unspeakable things. I despise this kind of behavior, but I think it's unfair to dump it on the back of an entire community.

Now, back to what's interesting. Take a look at this guy's tweets. He is always writing compelling stuff (about the beach scene and Shin in general). It might help you understand why Asuka reacted the way she did to Shinji's confession. Of course, he's not the "owner of the truth", but he has several intriguing points up his sleeve.
SPOILER: Show
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Re: Evangelion manga "day before Q" what can we expect in that manga.

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Postby bogusman » Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:30 am

Well as we know that they want to end all ship, because that's not the theme for the ending. And i think it's fair enough to make it an open interpretation of happy ending.

Back to the topic, i was expecting the manga will be more about the preparation or the situation of the operation in general rather than personal.
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Re: Evangelion manga "day before Q" what can we expect in that manga.

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Postby Kendrix » Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:42 am

While I agree that it's kind of a waste opportunity/ was hoping for something more plot substantial rather than just cutesy promo to try & get it to million, my problem with the complaint that its "too centered around Shinji" is that that looks as it as if it's a complete narrative, when it is, at best, just an added scene meant to fit into a larger narrative, and directly a companion piece to the prologue of Q, so it's content was more or less dictated by the content of that. There's no way one scene was gonna solve any focus problems present in the actual movies.

Of course, the authors chose to do that, but the reason they went for a low-hanging fruit is probably not "don't care about the characters" but "want to do promo piece that should have nostalgia appeal"
in itself a decision i don't 100% agree with (like i said, wasted opportunity - they could've crafted something that pressed the marketability buttons but reveals plot stuff in context for those who've already seen it, i think all it needed to give new info was to add Misato and show her interacting with the pilots)
-but, it serves the limited purpose it was created for just fine.

Ie - we're disagreeing about the anatomy of the mistake, not on the idea that the manga could have been better. I guess many of the big minds behind it want to be done with it & would have OK'd anything without big continuity errors, the actual resolution and anything important is (or at least, is supposed to be) in the movie proper

I am sure hoping that the cut material we heard about in the interviews ("we had to cut it down to just important stuff, but everything seemed important") will surface as DVD extras because that has a much greater chance of being meaty, plotty stuff

That said, I did enjoy the many expressions of Mari.
Image
they were charmingly drawn, for whatever thats worth.
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Re: Evangelion manga "day before Q" what can we expect in that manga.

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Postby bogusman » Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:11 am

Regardless of whether i had something to agree/disagree about the manga, i really love the art.
I've always love sadamoto's manga that i knew so long, it's my favorite in this fanchise, but this is different, and i love it too. Both Asuka & Mari (and Rei) looks amazing.
I gotta get one of those in the future somehow.
Last edited by bogusman on Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Evangelion manga "day before Q" what can we expect in that manga.

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Postby BernardoCairo » Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:25 am

It's a 16 page manga, so I wasn't expecting nothing special to begin with. "What would they even do with that limited amount of pages?", I asked. In the end, it turned out to be ok (at least in my eyes). I kept my expectations in check, so I wasn't disappointed. I remember thinking that this was going to be focused on explaining the minute details of Wille's rockets, or something. Thankfully, that wasn't the case. I'm not the kind of person to care about this sort of thing. You know, characters screaming technobabble that I can barely understand on my first read. I actually don't mind it. That said, if this is the extent of what is being told, I get bored quickly.
What intrigues me is that they went back and decided to write a “prologue” for a movie that is almost nine years old. That's interesting. In a way, this reminds me of how Q and Shin were supposed to be one big narrative unit split into two pieces (with Shin being the second part of NTE's third act, initiated by Q). If you think about it, Q's prologue can also be seen as Shin's.
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Postby bogusman » Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:40 am

And i like the part when Asuka remembers Shinji too, it's pretty dramatic.
Meanwhile, Rei looks cool in the ending.
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Re: Evangelion manga "day before Q" what can we expect in that manga.

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Postby Kendrix » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:22 pm

View Original Postbogusman wrote: Both Asuka & Mari (and Rei) looks amazing.


Personally, I thought Rei was kinda off-model.
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Postby nerv bae » Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:23 pm

View Original PostJehoel wrote:As for why Asuka would carry her old plugsuit with her, I find it to be reasonable, as being a pilot is her identity and more than likely she has some attachment to her original suit (like the headgear).


What's in the suitcase that appears with Asuka on page 10, just after Mari leaves on the helicopter back to Unit 8 on the Mighty King barge?

Image

Maybe Asuka wasn't carrying her old plugsuit that evening, or hadn't even thought about it in years. Maybe Mari got it out of storage and brought it to Asuka on the Mighty Queen, hoping she'd wear it for Shinji?

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Postby Meldon_Elraenhie » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:12 pm

What's in the suitcase that appears with Asuka on page 10, just after Mari leaves on the helicopter back to Unit 8 on the Mighty King barge?


It is a tough question, as the suitcase comes from nowhere from one page to the other. There is clearly a change in the location from where Mari and Asuka discussed the curse of Eva and the Asuka/Shinji issue to where Mari left, and Asuka stood alone. Probably she got the suitcase to get ready in the transition from one place to the other, so it should contain most of the elements we see on the next page: the helmet, the videogame...and it might also contain her old plugsuit, which might symbolise a memento from previous (better) times.

As in 3.0+1.0, we see the videogame turned off while she is adjusting her old plugsuit. The meaning is clear: we see the "real" Asuka (i.e. we can look at her true feelings) when she is wearing the old plugsuit to be recognised by Shinji. It has been 14 years since she wore that plugsuit for last time, so I am convinced that she has carried it with her for all that time. There is no other option to explain how it appeared there. While Mari might have stimulated the idea of wearing it, she must have already had the plugsuit. As I said, the "real" Asuka always cared for that plugsuit, probably related to a symbol of better times. Those better times include mainly her relationship with Shinji in 2.0 that had started to take shape, plus finding a place to belong to in Misato's apartment.

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Re: Evangelion manga "day before Q" what can we expect in that manga.

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Postby Derantor » Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:47 pm

Nerv Bae wrote: Suffice it to say: I think it's deeply uncharitable to simply dismiss the Q manga as non-canon and out-of-continuity, and its characters as idiots!

@Nerv Bae: This will never not be stupid, and I fear you won't convince me otherwise. :P Even if we suppose she kept a suit which was most likely destroyed when her Eva was destroyed for 14 years - why bring it to a launch site? Kinda big for a good luck token. I'm not even sure it is her old suit; I'm fairly certain the design is different. The neck thingies are blue on her Ha suit and black here, plus her right sleeve is completely black at the shoulder. So it's not a suit she could have been wearing when Shinji could have seen it.

And I can't express with words how utterly mindnumbingly braindead the idea is that Shinji needs help to recognize her. If he can't recognize the only redhead in Japan who hasn't changed at all in fourteen years ... Okay, granted, it's NTE!Shinji we are talking about, and he is extremely dense, but since he doesn't confuse his underwear for a hat, I'm like 69% sure that he doesn't mistake Asuka for anybody else, either. I'm sure he mistook Maya for his mirror image sometimes, before she changed her hairstyle, but come on ... He even recognized Misato right away, even though she changed her hairstyle and wore a fantasy uniform. :tongue: And if he doesn't recognize her, she can just tell him who she is, and has another reason to smash his face in! :asuka_geh:

Like Kendrix said, this is just some inconsequential piece of promo-material, and in my opinion not worthy of admission to canon. It's nice and wholesome and heartwarming and all that, and I've got nothing against people liking it, if that's their thing. But to me, it's just utterly stupid, and the less I have to think about it, the better. It's got no place in serious discussion, imo. It's just a bit of waff which doesn't connect to anything and doesn't add anything important which isn't already in the movies either. And the stuff it does add is just plain boring/unlikely/stupid.
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Postby nerv bae » Thu Dec 16, 2021 11:01 am

Here's my take on more-charitable interpretations of the Q manga:

On the topic of Asuka's old plugsuit, I don't understand why we should believe it "was most likely destroyed when her Eva was destroyed for 14 years," and I don't think Asuka brought it to the launchpad herself. ElMariachi and I have both proposed that Mari brought it instead:

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:
SPOILER: Show
Now Asuka having another old plugsuit in the launching platform is odd, it could had worked if Mari brought it to Asuka so she too would wear something Shinji would immediately recognize, but that wasn't the case.
View Original Postnerv bae wrote:
SPOILER: Show
View Original PostJehoel#924993 wrote:As for why Asuka would carry her old plugsuit with her, I find it to be reasonable, as being a pilot is her identity and more than likely she has some attachment to her original suit (like the headgear).

What's in the suitcase that appears with Asuka on page 10, just after Mari leaves on the helicopter back to Unit 8 on the Mighty King barge?

Image

Maybe Asuka wasn't carrying her old plugsuit that evening, or hadn't even thought about it in years. Maybe Mari got it out of storage and brought it to Asuka on the Mighty Queen, hoping she'd wear it for Shinji?

We all agree that it doesn't make much sense for Asuka to be lugging around a clapped-out ancient plugsuit. So why not adopt the more charitable interpretation that Mari dug it out of storage and brought it?

Further on the topic of Asuka's old plugsuit, you write that the design is different. I took some screenshots to compare:

Asuka's Ha plugsuit  SPOILER: Show
Image
Image
Asuka's Q plugsuit  SPOILER: Show
Image
Image

What do we see here? It is the same suit, with a few timeskip repairs: After Ha and before the Q manga it receives a replacement collar (black swoops in place of blue diamonds), a replacement right sleeve (black shoulder in place of red shoulder), replacement pelvis sections (black panels in place of red panels), and an additional round blue port over the left ribs. During the Q manga it receives the red tape. So this is certainly a suit that Shinji has seen before, albeit a bit worse for wear. But per the below I don't think Shinji's perspective really matters.

I agree with you that it's utterly mindnumbingly braindead that Shinji needs help to recognize Asuka. Plenty of other posters have tried to work out what's really going on:

View Original PostJehoel wrote:I'm not sure if this was already pointed out, but, about Mari wearing the school uniform; my impression is that she does it to tease Asuka and make her feel a tinge of "jealousy", so as to push her to be more open about her feelings and not continue to bottle them up.
"Look at what I'm doing for the sake of the guy that you like, how does that make you feel?"-sort of thing.
After all she has no reason to be wearing the uniform then and there, during the conversation with Asuka.
View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote: While both their appearances are more or less unchanged thanks to the Curse/Bindings of EVA, I can understand why Mari would be thinking Shinji might not remember this strange girl he's only met in the flesh one time. Asuka putting on her old plugsuit is markedly unnecessary, but she does it anyway-- which I'd say says more about her feelings than anything else. She wants to be 100% sure that Shinji remembers who she is.

We all agree that wearing costumes for Shinji's benefit doesn't make much sense. It's much more charitable to understand the Q manga as being about the girls' emotional preparation for reunion with Shinji: Mari wears the schoolgirl uniform to playfully goad Asuka; Asuka wears the old plugsuit as emotional self-reinforcement. We all understand that souvenirs, mementos, old outfits, etc., help to reify old feelings and memories and Asuka's behavior is consistent with this understanding.

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Re: Evangelion manga "day before Q" what can we expect in that manga.

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Postby Szmitten » Thu Dec 16, 2021 1:28 pm

A few points since I've been taking the manga as canon for project reasons:

-Asuka's "new" suit in the manga is identical to Mari's: very few suits are outright identical so it had to have been made and provided at a similar time. Asuka's is labelled "02", so the suit was made and commissioned with the intent of her still piloting 02. Mari's, even after 14 years, is still wearing the "05" suit despite being 08's pilot. So the old suit got shredded in Near Third Impact and/or the 03 explosion but was recovered. Shin repeatedly shows a plastic box containing Asuka's property, mostly stuff from her changing room in 2.0, but it could fit into that suitcase and/or the suitcase can be emptied into that box.

-The old suit itself: The black arm is actually the undersleeve like on the other side, it's just the red material has peeled off completely and is exposing the bare shoulder module and the attached wire. The asymmetrical waist modules and the neck changes I can't really explain but if we didn't have 3.333 then Asuka/Mari's plugsuits magically changed colours between movies so *shrug*

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Postby Derantor » Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:45 pm

The suit got an additional round thingy below her chest, too, and that black patch near her crotch. The reason I say the old suit was destroyed is that in Ha, the NERV crew mentions that the 9th Angel is creating a new core for itself inside the Entry Plug. We can see that the blue core stuff in fact covers the plug; Asuka is of course the source. If she becomes an amorphous blob of core, I doubt her suit would survive that. Besides, Plug Suits are mass-produced. In NGE, Asuka even carried around a spare, and I think in NTE it is implied that they get a new suit for each sortie. (But I'm not sure about that.) So yeah, maybe Mari did bring it (even though from memory, I can't really say that it was indicated in any way), but why it was still around if it was damaged is still a mystery. If anything, I'd suspect NERV got rid of it asap, since it was in contact with an Angel, and at that point, they had all their Plug Suit production facilities still in working order.

And, given that the experience in 03 wasn't exactly nice, I'm not sure I buy into "she kept it for sentimental reasons" thing, either. I mean, there is a way, but that relies on a lot of very specific fanwank I was partly responsible for which almost nobody knows about and which is accordingly not widely accepted at all. I get what you're saying. And if the Manga actually had Asuka wearing her old suit for sentimental reasons, with Mari commenting on it ("Why are you still wearing that?"), I'd buy it, too. In fact, I'd think that the Manga was a nice little addition to Asuka's and Mari's character, if that had been the case.

But this all feels incredibly contrived, still: Mari either takes a suit out of storage which shouldn't be in storage to begin with, (and it being in storage would mean that Asuka doesn't much care about it, otherwise, it wouldn't be stored away somewhere), or steals one of Asuka's mementos from their shared room, just so that she can make Asuka jealous (which is a bitch move, not gonna lie), and coax her into wearing a suit with the express reason of being recognizable to Shinji, a reason Asuka would most likely reject if she was wearing the suit beforehand for other reasons, like her emotional attachement to it, which would in turn also mean that Asuka wouldn't need any coaxing in the first place: she'd wear it anyway.

Anyway; I feel like I'm beginning to detract from everybody elses fun, so I'll just give this topic a rest.^^
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