That's a question that has been on my mind for a while: why Hideaki Anno created a new character but doesn't use it on a big scale, there was a big opportunity in 2.0 but unfortunately they got it and she has practically no relationship with Shinji or anyone at all We don't know who she worked for and who she is, why is she pictured with Yui? We'll probably never find out about that.

Well, being new doesn't mean that she has to be a super important MC or steal everyone's show; That would just make everyone hate her.

She simply is a somewhat mysterious side character, sort of like Kaworu was in the og show.

It's probably more a weakness of the film tetralogy format, maybe a series of OVAs would've allowed them more time for the minor characters.

Kendrix wrote:It's probably more a weakness of the film tetralogy format, maybe a series of OVAs would've allowed them more time for the minor characters.

Although an episodic format could allow more focus on minor characters, this would depend if the creators are interested on that.

If the creators want to mantain Mari as a mysterious characters, they won't focus too much on Mari even in an episodic format.

Anno was tangled in other projects and the imbroglio of the overall rebuild story and where it’s heading.

Also, one of it due to the market reason, the iconic characters existed and their story are still way profitable, developing new character is time consuming and risking the storyline while their profit are also still in questions.

At this point however i doubt that they’ll gonna give us more about her even in the upcoming years.

I mean the actual answer is twofold:

-The intent was for the character to have a minor role in 2.0, then a major role in 3.0. By debuting the character at the end of 1.0 in the 2.0 preview they were (somehow) surprised by the excited reaction to her and readjusted and expanded her role along with much of 2.0 (see 1.0 having 10 draft scripts and 2.0 have over 40 drafts).

-The original series and movie represents 10 hours of opportunities for plot and characterisation. We know all of the pre-existing characters pretty well from these 10 hours. The first two NTE's are, functionally, despite changes and additions, representing 3.5 hours of the equivalent 6.5 hours of the series; but it largely gets away with it because we have the original 10 hours in the back of our minds to fill in the gaps while it speeds along or skips moments of characterisation for the characters we already know. The latter two films represent 4 hours, but due to the timeskip have a whole new setting with new characters, characterisations, goals, problems, plot, lore, etc. The opportunity to introduce a new character properly while having to establish the world twice over the course of four films just never presented itself.

In short, 1.0 was supposed to establish the world, Shinji, and Rei; 2.0 was supposed to establish Asuka alone, but Mari was addded and diluted both; 3.0 was supposed to establish Mari but due to changes and the introduction of the timeskip they had to re-establish the world again; and 4.0 is the conclusion sooooo.

Szmitten wrote:-The original series and movie represents 10 hours of opportunities for plot and characterisation. We know all of the pre-existing characters pretty well from these 10 hours. The first two NTE's are, functionally, despite changes and additions, representing 3.5 hours of the equivalent 6.5 hours of the series; but it largely gets away with it because we have the original 10 hours in the back of our minds to fill in the gaps while it speeds along or skips moments of characterisation for the characters we already know. The latter two films represent 4 hours, but due to the timeskip have a whole new setting with new characters, characterisations, goals, problems, plot, lore, etc. The opportunity to introduce a new character properly while having to establish the world twice over the course of four films just never presented itself.

I don't think 2.0 really needs you to have the original 10 hours in the back of our minds to fill in the gaps. I ​remember little about the original when I see 2.0, but I still undestand and enjoyed this movie prettty easily.

I understand there isn't time to develop so many characters like a TV series, which could make fans of these characters mad. However, the important characters for the story in 2.0 are developed.


PS: Asuka isn't really so important for the story in 2.0.

Konja7 wrote:

Szmitten#923906 wrote:I don't think 2.0 really needs you to have the original 10 hours in the back of our minds to fill in the gaps.

You're not supposed to need it, and you don't need it, but when you have 12 episodes of Shinji/Asuka/Rei interactions and eight Angel encounters reduced to three (of which only one is a teamup with the original three) before Asuka is written out until the timeskip in the next. Shinji and Asuka have no characterisation time together in this series, and to make up for it we all kinda just ignore the failings of the films' use of time and ignore the fact that Dance Like You Want to Win and Lies & Silence don't actually happen.

For some context, unlike the rest of the cast, Mari was not created by Anno, and he purposefully left everything going with her on the hands of the rest of the staff, so she could be a character that could "break the mold of Evangelion".
That's why there were a loft of drafted and abandoned ideas about her: she was imagined to be a pilot from a strick English catholic school, or to be a punk with a lot of pets with their name tattooed on her, to be added to the pilot roster as soon as Ha and be a rival to Asuka and later a friend, to even have Asuka dies to Bardiel and have Mari replacing her for good, because they realized that Ha was already so packed that it was impossible to included her without removing someone else, hence her appearance at the beginning and Asuka being put on a bus so Mari can replace her against Zeruel.

And it's clear that her final backstory wasn't decided by the time of Ha, since there are contradictions between the fact that she was in that body for the past 14 years (at least) in Ha and that she says that her plugsuit is tight around her chest due to her growth spurt and that she doesn't like to drag adults into her business, but so far it's impossible to know if her past connection with Gendo, Yui and Fuyu was already decided in Q or only in Shin.

ElMariachi wrote:And it's clear that her final backstory wasn't decided by the time of Ha, since there are contradictions between the fact that she was in that body for the past 14 years (at least) in Ha and that she says that her plugsuit is tight around her chest due to her growth spurt and that she doesn't like to drag adults into her business, but so far it's impossible to know if her past connection with Gendo, Yui and Fuyu was already decided in Q or only in Shin.

I'm not so sure if it has anything to do with growth spurt since all Eva pilots are teenagers to begin with, so there is no reason to design plugsuits for younger or older pilots.
To me it seemed like that the plugsuit for Unit-05 wasn't designed for her and like the suit, the unit itself was put to together in a hurry.

Kendrix wrote:Well, being new doesn't mean that she has to be a super important MC or steal everyone's show; That would just make everyone hate her.

Well, she is super important in Shin and she, quite literally, steals everyone's show at the end. Expecting more interactions with a characters that ends up being so important to the overall story isn't strange in my opinion.

I'm quite sure infact that she sticks out far more right now precisely because she takes the main role just at the very end of the story.

Joseki wrote:

Kendrix#923880 wrote:Well, being new doesn't mean that she has to be a super important MC or steal everyone's show; That would just make everyone hate her.

Well, she is super important in Shin and she, quite literally, steals everyone's show at the end. Expecting more interactions with a characters that ends up being so important to the overall story isn't strange in my opinion.

I'm quite sure infact that she sticks out far more right now precisely because she takes the main role just at the very end of the story.

Mari is a character parasite. When Khara created her, instead of inventing novel characteristics; instead they inserted other character traits/scenes.

Misato's entry plug scene, Asuka's piloting at points, the kaji-spy motif, and in the crc literally Rei's eyepatch and cast.
Mari had a larger role for 2.0 but was subsequently deleted. Along with the other character's character-traits...

according to Anno in the 2.0 CRC

2.0's production was a complete mess. they had to use cut dialogue for Mari; hence why she's talking random stuff on a phone.

Actually, that's the very opposite of what that text says/ grossly out of context - It's showing us incomplete products that were rejected precisely because they didn't want to give her a job the other characters could do.

The OG cast was designed so that they could cover a lot of functions & you'd know to whom to give which line - Misato is usually the optimist, Ritsuko is the cynic, Asuka is action-orienred, Rei is serious/cautionsly pessimistic, Shinji worries about perception but also gets pensive moments -

Basically you had a very complete set of functions and philosophies that made it a bit hard to find a truly new function.
But that's what they wanted: For her to be qually different from Asuka & Rei who are both already designed to be opposites.

But this very text (which is much longer than just this & has equally long sections for the other pilots - if anyone got the short end its probably Misato & ritsuko) goes on much longer to explain how they did find that function & how actually casting Saakamoto was a turning point.

A 'key moment' is the conversation in the shelter - that's why it wound up on the poster.
The 'Mari function' is basically a viewpoint that doesn't worry too much and just says what she thinks; & everything from her character traits & her interactions with others flows from that.

The only other character that staff members compare the final Mari to is Kaworu - it's easy to see why, she's knowledgeable, accepting... there's a symmetry in how they appear as sources of advice & the ones seeing Gendo's plan through at the end up Q - but it's also apparent how they're sufficiently different.
Mari's a lot more 'practical'.

I mean, I think they could have given her a bit more dynamicism (for all that the structure with the timeskip made this difficult) But if she's just supposed to be a side character who is a contrast figure, she does that just fine.

Kendrix wrote:The only other character that staff members compare the final Mari to is Kaworu - it's easy to see why, she's knowledgeable, accepting... there's a symmetry in how they appear as sources of advice & the ones seeing Gendo's plan through at the end up Q - but it's also apparent how they're sufficiently different.
Mari's a lot more 'practical'.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ this. The whole mArI hAs nO cHaRaCtEr Or ScReEnTiMe people always conveniently forget that the same holds true for Kaworu, but you hardly ever see the same complaints about him

Blockio wrote:^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ this. The whole mArI hAs nO cHaRaCtEr Or ScReEnTiMe people always conveniently forget that the same holds true for Kaworu, but you hardly ever see the same complaints about him

To be fair, Mari is a pretty popular character too.

Honestly, I think the problem is we don't see almost interactions between Mari and other characters. The bigest interaction of Mari is with Asuka, but these are pretty small. I think people expected Mari to have more impact on other characters.

Others are worried that Mari was just created for fanservice reasons.


That said, I really liked Mari's interactions with Asuka in the manga. People complaint about the focus on Shinji, but I really like Mari in this.

Yes, but Kaworu also only interacts with Shinji pretty much. The two are not at all different in that regard.

Blockio wrote:Yes, but Kaworu also only interacts with Shinji pretty much. The two are not at all different in that regard.

I didn't mean only the amount of people (I think Mari interacts with more people). The amount of time dedicated to the interactions between Mari and Asuka is extremely short too.

If more time was spent to show/develop the friendship between Asuka and Mari, I suspect we wouldn't have so many complaints.

Blockio wrote:

Kendrix#924903 wrote:The only other character that staff members compare the final Mari to is Kaworu - it's easy to see why, she's knowledgeable, accepting... there's a symmetry in how they appear as sources of advice & the ones seeing Gendo's plan through at the end up Q - but it's also apparent how they're sufficiently different.
Mari's a lot more 'practical'.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ this. The whole mArI hAs nO cHaRaCtEr Or ScReEnTiMe people always conveniently forget that the same holds true for Kaworu, but you hardly ever see the same complaints about him

Kaworu's reduced screentime still resonates and fits with how important the narrative treats him, given what happens with him and how he functions with Shinji; he neither overstays nor understays his welcome. But even otherwise glowing reviews express the feeling that Shin doesn't justify how focal Mari becomes despite her importance (or lack thereof) elsewhere.

Axx°N N. wrote:But even otherwise glowing reviews express the feeling that Shin doesn't justify how focal Mari becomes despite her importance (or lack thereof) elsewhere.

Mari doesn't seem so focal in Shin from the spoilers. She is still a pretty secondary character in Shin. There isn't even focus on her during Instrumentality.

Konja7 wrote:

Axx°N N.#924937 wrote:But even otherwise glowing reviews express the feeling that Shin doesn't justify how focal Mari becomes despite her importance (or lack thereof) elsewhere.

Mari doesn't seem so focal in Shin from the spoilers. She is still a pretty secondary character in Shin. There isn't even focus on her during Instrumentality.

Notice the use of "how focal," implying relativity to how focal she was before Shin. Ignoring that she's active in the entire last sortie, including being given a major focus in action scenes and mech designs, she's indicated to be of major importance when Fuyutsuki recognizes her, she's present during Asuka's final moments, and she's a major focus of the very last minutes of the film. One doesn't (or shouldn't) let the grace note fall on something unimportant when one is closing out one's story, and an ending is inherently a major component of a narrative, especially retrospectively.

Saying that Shin doesn't elevate Mari's importance or feature her as a focal point is, to my mind, a non-starting argument.

I feel like the comparisons between Mari and Kaworu can only go up to a certain limit. These two are as similar in some respects as they are different in others.
Kaworu really shines under a time limit because of how he was written. In a number of ways, his character is a twist on the "monster of the week formula". Just like any other angel, he appeared, generated a conflict and was eventually defeated. The key differences here are the way he chose to devise said conflict and the fact that his actions continue to impact history even after his death. Unlike the other angels, Kaworu is not just a mere target that must be defeated. He is a full-on character, but that doesn't mean that he is not the "monster of the week".
Kaworu is, for all instances and purposes, an antagonist (a person who actively opposes someone or something; an adversary). He is the last angel and appears in just the right moment. Shinji is down and can't talk to anyone properly. Toji, Kensuke and Hikari had to move, Ayanami is dead, Misato and Ritsuko are scarier than ever and Asuka, the only one left, has ran away. However, amidst all this chaos, a glimmer of hope appears. Because of his current mental state, Shinji throws himself at it, just for reality to knock on the door. Just like in episode 18, the "hero" has to make a decision. This time around, he does so, but it's painful. Shinji saved humanity, but at the cost of becoming a murderer.
This is a very simple tragic story and that's why it works. Kaworu is not a "complex character" and that's not a problem. What makes him unique is the subversion of tropes that were already scattered throughout the narrative. In a number of ways, he takes a lot of cues from other angels. Just as Arael and Armisael were designed to draw the most out of Asuka and Ayanami's characters respectively, Kaworu was created to challenge Shinji's limits.

Mari, on the other hand, is a very different character. For starters, she's not an antagonist. She doesn't appear in the last possible second either. She's not a play on the "monster of the week formula" (NTE, for obvious reasons, doesn't even follow this format). She's a different, but interesting character. I want to talk about her, but I'll save it for later.