Slowpokeking wrote:Why not use Misato?

Because she's more than twice his age. Stop trying to make MisaShin happen, it's really weird.

Axx°N N. wrote:I'm not, I'm saying with everyhing displayed, I feel it becomes easy to reach the overall interpretation of "they've all changed."

If what Shin wanted to do was leave it ambiguous whether they move on from Shinji or not, there wouldn't be a timeskip in the epilog. To me, that's very clearly a followup to the lines you mention, in order to demonstrate they have found their places apart from Shinji. Thus it would be totally fine for Shinji to connect with them again--but he doesn't. Thus, again, the overwhelming indication is they're not going to interact.

Now, I've understand better your point.

I think there is definitely a goodbye vibe in all the scenes (including the Epilogue). So, I also interpret that Shinji won't mantain the contact.

That said, it is always possible they could meet again in the future.

BusterMachine4 wrote:

Slowpokeking#922894 wrote:Why not use Misato?

Because she's more than twice his age. .

Why does it matter?

Isn't Mari actually at the same age as Yui?

Yeah, or much older. She's called Maria of Iscariot, so ... dunno, she could be ancient.

Edit: @Axx°N N.: I'd argue that Asuka hasn't changed at all, though.

Because she's looked after him in loco parentis for a time.

Misato would have been really good actually, and not from a shipping angle. Many in this thread have approached Mari less as a romantic partner and more as a "helpful friend" like how she was with Asuka, welcoming Shinji into the world of maturity, more as a mentor than anything.

And if you think about it, isn't that a role better suited for Misato? As is, it feels like the setup in Jo & Ha regarding her as Shinji's mentor is totally wasted by Shin, which cements her character trajectory as "failed mentor" and then she dies in repentance. Will we really be able to rewatch all those scenes between her & Shinji and feel as if it's well-used screentime that has payoff?

Wouldn't it have worked better off the established setup, and have worked better as a positive and audience-rewarding ending, for Misato to show up alive and extend a hand to Shinji? I don't think there's a larger portion of people happy to see Mari than to have seen Misato. As it stands, she dies and disappears from the narrative with just a single ambiguous line hinting at her revival.

If the ending is intended as fan service or to make up for all the prior Eva despair, there were better ways.

Derantor wrote:Yeah, or much older. She's called Maria of Iscariot, so ... dunno, she could be ancient.

Edit: @Axx°N N.: I'd argue that Asuka hasn't changed at all, though.

Mari's body is younger for some reason. That's why she is an adult in the Epilogue.

pwhodges wrote:Because she's looked after him in loco parentis for a time.

I guess I should have been less absolute in my statements. Asuka changed a lot during NTE, but the ending doesn't turn her into her polar opposite; it harkens back to something she did all along, namely, playing videogames to escape from reality.

pwhodges wrote:Because she's looked after him in loco parentis for a time.

And Mari could be his aunt

Kinky…

Seriously I don't age gap is a problem at all as long as both love each other.

AGAIN, PLEASE DO NOT USE FULLQUOTES ON LONG POSTS - Derantor


Yeah, Mari simply took part of Misato's role in Rebuild, and Misato was downplayed as a supporting character.

But Mari overall lacks the depth of Misato in NGE, not to say the relationship.

I don’t quite agree with age being just a number, jail is not just a room…

Yes but Anno apparently had no qualms with (Nadia Spoilers:)

Are you talking about Nemo? Yeah.

Joseki wrote:I don’t quite agree with age being just a number, jail is not just a room…

How is it illegal? All they have to do is wait till Shinji grow up to the age of legal marriage.

Axx°N N. wrote:Yes but Anno apparently had no qualms with (Nadia Spoilers:)

SPOILER: Show

the very last scene of Nadia, where Sanson, who as an adult knew Marie since she was a toddler, married and impregnated her. So...

Anno also had no qualms with making coach and Kazumi Amano a couple in Gunbuster, and they also have an age gap between them.

I don't think age gap may not be a problem if they had a development in the story (at least some hints).

Not to agree with, but ship him with Misato is even felt less questionable and more connected to previous storyline, rather than with his mom's friend that he has barely known.

If they want a completely new and surprising ending why not just pair Shinji with someone else a completely new character that has just showed up in that new world without eva reality. Could be his long lost childhood friend, neighbor, or if talk about age gap could be with some much older lady that he had crush when he was a kid, or even someone that he just met in that station.

Axx°N N. wrote:Yes but Anno apparently had no qualms with (Nadia Spoilers:)

SPOILER: Show

the very last scene of Nadia, where Sanson, who as an adult knew Marie since she was a toddler, married and impregnated her. So...

Ok, that’s pretty fucked up.

C.T.1290 wrote:

Axx°N N.#922910 wrote:Yes but Anno apparently had no qualms with (Nadia Spoilers:)

SPOILER: Show

the very last scene of Nadia, where Sanson, who as an adult knew Marie since she was a toddler, married and impregnated her. So...

Ok, that’s pretty fucked up.

Both these animes were done at a very different time Nardia it was 1984 and Gunbuster 1988 the 80's in general had very creepy stuff happening in both western and eastern media between adults and kids. I'm not condoning ether, but I will say they are products of their time, it's only in recent decades both media have changed their stance on this and its become very frowned up on.

Its why I think curse of Eva was a huge mistake as it leans in to this and wasn't well-received by everyone, and I would much rather have had aged up versions with an age reset once they landed on the new world Shinji created then growing up and getting a second shot to start over.

"How do you feel about Shinji ending up with Mari?"

SPOILER: Show

I have some issues with the choice of having Mari with Shinji at the end and to me they are quite substantial.

The biggest one is Mari herself.

Not her as a person, but as a character in the context of a narrative. The ending of Shin is not only the end of a movie, but the ending of something much bigger, it's the climax of a story that touched many people's lives all around the world over the course of 25 years. It has weight, one so heavy it ended up crushing even Anno.
This is my first complaint, and probably the more polarizing aspect of the ending: Shinji, Asuka, Rei and to some extent even Kaworu are characters who showed their weaknesses and their issues. They were vulnerable, they made mistakes, they lost something and they fought hard just to be who they are. They all share the most beautiful and delicate trait a human can have: they are all flawed. Their flaws made them feel close to me.
When Shinji felt the pain and hopelessness of having to watch Kaworu die in front of him, I relived all the time I lost someone.
When Asuka repeated to herself the Eva is the only place in the world for her, I relived all the time I couldn't find my place.
When Rei felt poka poka, I relived all the times someone reached to me.
When Kaworu failed once again to make Shinji happy, I relived all my failures.
They are not real people, they are not even really human, but we shared everything that a human will exprience in the course of a lifetime. To mem they are human.
Mari has many good traits, some of which I value extremely high. She is caring, joyful and free... but she doesn't move me. The relationship I have with her is the same I have with Kensuke, Hikari and Toji. I care about her because of her bonds with the characters I connected with, but I never felt any personal connectiont towards her.
I don't consider this an issue generally, but in the context of the epilogue my reaction can only different.
When I saw grown up Shinji, my heart was filled with the same joy and sadness that a father has in seeing their kid leave home.
When I saw grown up Asuka, Rei and Kaworu I felt the melancholy of the distance and the possibilty of a chapter in their lives being closed.
When I saw Mari... I wondered why she was there.
She was playful, she was cheerful and she was happy and so was Shinji with her, but to me it didn't feel like it was earned.
In EoTV all that Shinji ever obtained was "I hate myself, but maybe I can learn to love myself", but we, Shinji and me, both went through a journey full of so many ups and down that I felt like I too earned the chance of maybe learning to love myself.
In EoE all that Shinji and Asuka ever obtained was the acknowledgement that "after all, you are alive, so you will always have the chance to be happy", but also in this case we as a trio shared so much that I too earned that chance.
At the end of Shin, this deep and irrational feeling of Mari being me is something I just don't feel. I can see myself having some bits in common with her, but she (or her creators), never gave me the chance to feel like her, to struggle with her and to be hurt like her.
I am Shinji, I am Asuka, I am Rei and I am Kaworu, but I am not Mari. I don't feel like she is a part of me.
Eva for me is like looking in a mirror, but in my mirror I don't see Mari.
I fully understand this is just one way of experiencing a medium and to relate to a character or a scenario, but this is my My Purest Heart for You, nothing but true honesty about how I feel about it.

I also have what I'd describe at secondary doubts, some views I have that are not as deep or not as flashed out as what I just described. At the moment they are mostly just questions I've been trying to answer myself.


Possible implications of the ending.

Isn't Mari dangerously close to being presented as a reward to Shinji more than an actual indipendent character?
What does Mari's seemingly absolute and immediate drop of every relationship in her life, including the best friend of a lifetime Asuka, for Shinji, who she interacted with a handful of time, actually means for her as a character? Will she also leave Shinji with the same ease once the time come?
Is runnning away from the people who hurt you in the past, quite literally in this scenario, the solution?
Isn't Shinji running away in a world were reality and fiction meet, hand in hand with a cheerful, big breasted (as they both like to underline) girl who fell on him from the sky and dropped everything else for him, the ultimate escapist power fantasy?

Here goes the internets tendency to yell once useful, clearly defined words at anything they don't like until they lose all meaning.

"grooming" used to mean "winning a child's trust with the intent to later bamboozle them into letting you do sex acts/ rape"

NOT "You used to know someone in any way when they were younger, and then, many years later, when they've been an adult for ages, you end up getting married or whatever"

that sort of thing just leads to the words being diluted and then when someone warns about real abusers ppl will think its just another ship argument or whatever.

I don't see how age differences don't completely cease to matter once someone crosses certain minimum maturity threshold to being an adult; From that point on it's honestly really insulting & paternalistic to say they can't make their own decisions.

There's no indication that they got it on while he was still 14 (indeed that they got it on at all is at, most, suggested)

This is anime, most of the characters are underage and they still develop romantic relationship. Also most of them have more mature appearance/mind.

We can't judge it by real life standards.

Also as long as they wait till grow up to truly marry and start the relationship, I don't see it as a problem. Even in real life, it's not against any law.