Konja7 wrote:I think Kaworu called Rei Q a lillim imitation, because she doesn't have a soul in her body.

Nuclear Lunchbox wrote:

Konja7#922673 wrote:I think Kaworu called Rei Q a lillim imitation, because she doesn't have a soul in her body.

Specifically, he calls her a 模造品, mozouhin. “Fake”, “ersatz”, or “imitation” would all be pretty on point.

Axx°N N. wrote:If you're overly afraid of boring your audience, sure, but many a director have made incredible pieces out of 'nothing happening.' Who wouldn't want to see the Red Earth anime version of Stalker? The fact the landscape is glossed over is a wasted opportunity to me. I'm not even arguing really that it needed any more than 10 minutes--but just a ~1 minute montage?

Nuclear Lunchbox wrote:"Pseudo" is no more perfectly good than it is banally bland.

Derantor wrote:The only bland thing here is your habit of doing translations that rob the original of a lot of meaning, leaving us with translations so broad as to be almost useless. I have to think back to your refusal to translate the sentence uttered by Midori asking for confirmation of Misato's standing orders to shoot Shinji on sight in a straightforward way, implying that it would be a dangerous breach of the moral imperative of the Guild of Translators to translate the sentence in a way that implies that there are these orders to begin with - when the movie itself outright states in a previous scene that there was such a standing order. For somebody who "is definitively known to live in Japan, speak Japanese, work as a professional translator, and to have actually seen the movie in question", I would have expected better - you claim to have been unable to properly translate the sentence because of missing context, when you should have known the context better than any of us, as you have seen the movie and speak perfect Japanese, so you should be able to follow along without any trouble at all. In hindsight, your preferred translation was outright misleading.

ElMariachi wrote:It also wouldn't fit the narrative theme of Shin: Q is the movie about losing all hope, Shin is the movie about regaining said home, so having Shin opening with a long trek among the lifeless ruins of the world hammering how everything looks hopeless wouldn't fit with the narrative, again unless something else happens during this sequence.

ElMariachi wrote:Thinking about it, that was a bit cold from him, no?

Konja7 wrote:

ElMariachi#922682 wrote:Thinking about it, that was a bit cold from him, no?

Yeah. I think Kaworu was just trying to describe Rei Q's situation, but it was a bit cold.

Maybe he doesn't know Rei Q could have her own will and feelings.

ElMariachi wrote:WILLE also probably met them during the timeskip, since Asuka was able to guess at a glance that Rei Q was one of the "early models".
That makes me think, once Shin will be released and this subforum and the Rebuild one merged back, shall we call her Rei 6?

Konja7 wrote:

ElMariachi#922710 wrote:WILLE also probably met them during the timeskip, since Asuka was able to guess at a glance that Rei Q was one of the "early models".
That makes me think, once Shin will be released and this subforum and the Rebuild one merged back, shall we call her Rei 6?

I would say Asuka likely knows about Ayanami series since Ha. However, the 2.0 preview implies the pilots would probably meet a Rei clone.

I think it would be fine to mantain Rei Q. It's more unique than another number.

ElMariachi wrote: WILLE also probably met them during the timeskip, since Asuka was able to guess at a glance that Rei Q was one of the "early models".
That makes me think, once Shin will be released and this subforum and the Rebuild one merged back, shall we call her Rei 6?

ElMariachi wrote:

Nuclear Lunchbox wrote:
Specifically, he calls her a 模造品, mozouhin. “Fake”, “ersatz”, or “imitation” would all be pretty on point.

Thinking about it, that was a bit cold from him, no?

Derantor wrote:
It becomes obvious here again that when reading your translations, we have to take them with a grain of salt. Because - what's the difference between a "fake Lilin", a "faux Lilin", a "pseudo-Lilin", or a "lilin-esque being"? Well, whatever it is, it is stil a far cry from translating it simply as "You are still like the Lilin", completely removing all indications of fakeness or artificiality from the sentence, when those connotations are clearly there in the original.

Nuclear Lunchbox wrote:It is! When I watched Q for the first time with subs, I didn't speak Japanese and that was lost on me. It's quite cold coming from Kaworu and now it makes me wonder more about his relationship with Rei.

Konja7 wrote:Another theory I have is that Kaworu see Rei Q only as an extension of Rei Ayanami, but not her own being. This theory is inspired by their interactions in Evangelion Battlefields.

ElMariachi wrote:Where did you saw the translatios of Eva Battlefields? Also do you know how much is the Khara staff involved in it?

Konja7 wrote:You can find the translations to the dialogues in this page (it is in the Episodes section in the google drive folder):

https://evabfeng.carrd.co/#translations


I just know it is licensed by Khara. I don't know if the staff is involved (that's why I said "inspired").

LONG tangent on Evangelion Battlefield  SPOILER: Show

If I remember well what someone explained in another thread, the story of Battlefields is actually a bunch of simulations made by a MAGI Achiral (for reasons unknown to everyone) where it simulate different "scenarios" by adding two new characters: a new pilot candidate and... a therapist!
And you feel that this computer doesn't' bother much with realism, since one of said scenarios has those new characters in neo-NERV!

I checked several events and the description of items, and it looks like the people who worked on it either didn't know about Shin's events or were instructed to not give away information in their game, because there are several elements that contradicts what we know from Shin (although that could be chalked to the fact that this is all a simulation): Shinji immediately recognize Mari when he sees her after the timeskip, Mari and Asuka live in separate room, the description for the item "Asuka's doll" says that it's a memento of her mother (while we know from Shin that she doesn't have one), one scene has Shinji ask Sakura if Toji is going well and she can't respond, as if he was dead, and even more damning, one of the dialogue implies that WILLE still has to fight Angels on top of neo-NERV!

It's pretty jarring to see the contrast between the two available map (Tokyo-3 pre-N3I and the Wunder + neo-NERV HQ): the first one has an entire side of the gameplay about developing and upgrading Tokyo-3 and its defenses, with a few already established "story buildings" where the scenario scenes happen... and in the second map all the "buildings" are story buildings, because there's nothing else left. (I guess that could had worked if Shin had a giant "Lilin City" like we speculated for so long)

I've seen the scenes between Kaworu and Rei Q, and Kaworu as always is very cryptic, saying that Rei Q is "different" but that with time her "heart" will manifest, and one of his lines is that the memories and bond you make stay engraved into your soul, which is what happened to Rei II in Shin (hence why she has a Tsubame doll in her arms)

From what I understand, scenarios 3 and 4 both happen during the events of Q, but are two separate continuities: one follows the events of Q, but with the two OCs at neo-NERV and Shinji stays longer in the Wunder before being retrieved by Rei Q, and the other has the two OC being part of WILLE (or soon to be for the pilot) and Rei Q's retrieval operation never happens, so he stays in the Wunder all along.
And this latest scenario gave us something I always hoped to see but never got in Shin: actual interactions and exploration of the characters of the Wunder crew, pilots included!
The beginning of Mari and Nagara's friendship is wholesome btw! And we learn that Midori is kind of a slacker, that Takao is the old man full of wisdom and always ready to help his juniors, that Maya became a tyrant in her aisle that everyone fears, that Sakura is a saint...

And then comes Shinji... and here damn, it's hard to see, the poor kid gets near constantly shat on, it's like there's a competition among the Wunder crew on who will be the biggest asshole toward him: the story goes with the interpretation that WILLE purposefully didn't tell him anything about what happened to Rei, or the world, or what he did, or what happened to Asuka, or even why he shouldn't pilot anymore, hell they didn't even told him that there aren't Angels anymore! The only thing that they keep repeating when he ask anything is that this "irrelevant information" and that now his "job" is to do absolutely nothing, even when he practically begs if there's something, anything he can do to help. Which of course make him depressed since he's reduced to uselessness and don't even know why... which makes the WILLE people shat more on him for always being depressed! What the actual fuck!?
The only people having his back are the two OCs, Mari (who tries to convince Misato to let him participate in the combat simulations-which are the actual gameplay of the game- so he can help the other pilots in their training and feel useful) and Sakura (who again is a saint, eating her meals with him when she sees that he almost doesn't eat, bringing him books and making go out of his cells to cheer him up... a shame we didn't saw more of this side of her in Shin).
At least at some point he's finally allowed to participate in the combat simulation to help the other pilots in their training and given some limited freedom to leave his cell and only with the Captain's authorization (and even then, it's implied that she did that because Ritsuko told her that Shinji might start to resort to self-harm and maybe even suicide if the situation stayed as it was).

Nuclear Lunchbox wrote:
The worst kind of fan is the one who knows just enough Japanese to think they know better than people who make a career out of translation. I don't expect you to know anything about what is or isn't "clear", since your best resource is an English dictionary. Go ahead and make whatever misinformed statements you like.

ElMariachi wrote:Thank you, that's a little gold mine of what ifs!

LONG tangent on Evangelion Battlefield  SPOILER: Show

If I remember well what someone explained in another thread, the story of Battlefields is actually a bunch of simulations made by a MAGI Achiral (for reasons unknown to everyone) where it simulate different "scenarios" by adding two new characters: a new pilot candidate and... a therapist!
And you feel that this computer doesn't' bother much with realism, since one of said scenarios has those new characters in neo-NERV!

I checked several events and the description of items, and it looks like the people who worked on it either didn't know about Shin's events or were instructed to not give away information in their game, because there are several elements that contradicts what we know from Shin (although that could be chalked to the fact that this is all a simulation): Shinji immediately recognize Mari when he sees her after the timeskip, Mari and Asuka live in separate room, the description for the item "Asuka's doll" says that it's a memento of her mother (while we know from Shin that she doesn't have one), one scene has Shinji ask Sakura if Toji is going well and she can't respond, as if he was dead, and even more damning, one of the dialogue implies that WILLE still has to fight Angels on top of neo-NERV!

It's pretty jarring to see the contrast between the two available map (Tokyo-3 pre-N3I and the Wunder + neo-NERV HQ): the first one has an entire side of the gameplay about developing and upgrading Tokyo-3 and its defenses, with a few already established "story buildings" where the scenario scenes happen... and in the second map all the "buildings" are story buildings, because there's nothing else left. (I guess that could had worked if Shin had a giant "Lilin City" like we speculated for so long)

I've seen the scenes between Kaworu and Rei Q, and Kaworu as always is very cryptic, saying that Rei Q is "different" but that with time her "heart" will manifest, and one of his lines is that the memories and bond you make stay engraved into your soul, which is what happened to Rei II in Shin (hence why she has a Tsubame doll in her arms)

From what I understand, scenarios 3 and 4 both happen during the events of Q, but are two separate continuities: one follows the events of Q, but with the two OCs at neo-NERV and Shinji stays longer in the Wunder before being retrieved by Rei Q, and the other has the two OC being part of WILLE (or soon to be for the pilot) and Rei Q's retrieval operation never happens, so he stays in the Wunder all along.
And this latest scenario gave us something I always hoped to see but never got in Shin: actual interactions and exploration of the characters of the Wunder crew, pilots included!
The beginning of Mari and Nagara's friendship is wholesome btw! And we learn that Midori is kind of a slacker, that Takao is the old man full of wisdom and always ready to help his juniors, that Maya became a tyrant in her aisle that everyone fears, that Sakura is a saint...

And then comes Shinji... and here damn, it's hard to see, the poor kid gets near constantly shat on, it's like there's a competition among the Wunder crew on who will be the biggest asshole toward him: the story goes with the interpretation that WILLE purposefully didn't tell him anything about what happened to Rei, or the world, or what he did, or what happened to Asuka, or even why he shouldn't pilot anymore, hell they didn't even told him that there aren't Angels anymore! The only thing that they keep repeating when he ask anything is that this "irrelevant information" and that now his "job" is to do absolutely nothing, even when he practically begs if there's something, anything he can do to help. Which of course make him depressed since he's reduced to uselessness and don't even know why... which makes the WILLE people shat more on him for always being depressed! What the actual fuck!?
The only people having his back are the two OCs, Mari (who tries to convince Misato to let him participate in the combat simulations-which are the actual gameplay of the game- so he can help the other pilots in their training and feel useful) and Sakura (who again is a saint, eating her meals with him when she sees that he almost doesn't eat, bringing him books and making go out of his cells to cheer him up... a shame we didn't saw more of this side of her in Shin).
At least at some point he's finally allowed to participate in the combat simulation to help the other pilots in their training and given some limited freedom to leave his cell and only with the Captain's authorization (and even then, it's implied that she did that because Ritsuko told her that Shinji might start to resort to self-harm and maybe even suicide if the situation stayed as it was).

Zusuchan wrote:Of course most people here are less acquainted with Japanese than you-that does not mean that they might not have opinions on stuff, especially opinions informed by other people well-acquainted with Japanese (which Reichu actually is). And if you respond to a post meant to engage in further discussion with something along the lines of "I'm better at Japanese than you are, so shut up", I don't see how that makes anyone more inclined to talk with you and believe in what you've said-especially because on both here and EGFD you have acted quite dismissive and gatekeeper-ish when it comes to different translations.