Newtype May 10th issue interviews

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Re: Newtype May 10th issue interviews

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Postby Xiel » Wed May 12, 2021 12:32 pm

View Original PostKonja7 wrote:It seems Kaworu was also created by humans (although he seems "more difficult" to create than Rei). I think the open coffins were the failed attemps from SEELE to create Kaworu.


Huh? Kaworu is not made by anyone in NTE. The only experiments are Shikinami and Ayanami series. Those are the cycles he's been trapped into to repeat the same role all over again. He talks about how he can't truly die until the heat death/collapse/destruction of the universe and is doomed to play the same role again as the voice-over of his scene with the coffins. That's when he wakes in a new one, he finally finds himself on the beach with young Shinji, as symbolic he was reborn fresh anew free from this. Shinji had to become Buddha and get the power of God to pull him out.

Shinji is just pretty Bodhisattva-esque in the Instrumentality scene, the opposite of his role in EoE (the one who gives therapy to others instead of receiving it).
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Postby Konja7 » Wed May 12, 2021 1:01 pm

View Original PostXiel wrote:Huh? Kaworu is not made by anyone in NTE. The only experiments are Shikinami and Ayanami series. Those are the cycles he's been trapped into to repeat the same role all over again. He talks about how he can't truly die until the heat death/collapse/destruction of the universe and is doomed to play the same role again as the voice-over of his scene with the coffins. That's when he wakes in a new one, he finally finds himself on the beach with young Shinji, as symbolic he was reborn fresh anew free from this. Shinji had to become Buddha and get the power of God to pull him out.

I know the coffins are used as a symbolic representation of Kaworu's eternal cycle in Shin.

However, the coffins that appeared in Jo really exists. So, SEELE likely put these in the moon. That's why I think Kaworu (in his current life) is still created by SEELE.

Although it doesn't seem they could create another Kaworu. That's why I think the open coffins are failed experiments.

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Postby Kendrix » Wed May 12, 2021 1:36 pm

Symbolically three coffins for three endings/timelines. (EoTV, EoE, Rebuild) - that's definitely how the title of the movie is meant: "Attempt #3 to slap an ending onto this"

I wonder to which extent that reflects Anno's feelings of wanting to make the right ending to actually feel 'done with it', especially since Kaworu is said to have tweaked the "book of life", acting in a sense like a writer (someone said this is paired with a visual of the scrolls? So maybe that thing from EVA 2 where Adam (or the FAR individual who became adam) wrote the scrolls has been made canon.)

This also implies that Kaworu went through at least one timeline (the EoE one) where everything was exactly the same as before, except for maybe that one DC scene where he talks to SEELE. Imagine the crushing resignation, the feeling of being trapped by fate that he must'e experienced there. He was like an actor just saying his lines.
He should go to a support group with Homura and Yuki Nagato...

Or maybe it wasn't quite so samey for Kaworu:
Initially his design was a mix between the three OG pilots (maybe compiled from the ones that were mind-melded with angels?) & he was treated as pretty much an ordinary angel who just bizarrely happened to be boy-shaped, because they're surreal like that.
You might think he popped fully formed from an angel cocoon not long before he shows up.
In the DCs and EoE a different image emerges, that gives him a larger role: He is essentially SEELE's counterpart to Rei, even having Adam's soul & being part of their instrumentality plan, and you'd think that like Rei, he was created as a kid.
Maybe he made an alteration that told SEELE where to find Adam's soul/ that the 'last' angel would have it, thinking that if they gave him a body earlier he'd have more time to prepare.
When everything turned out almost the same then, it's no wonder that he resorted to MUCH more drastic changes.


Though during the actual Kaworu instrumentality scene they say they met "countless times". Could be dramatic exaggeration, could mean many more Kaworus in between.
Last edited by Kendrix on Wed May 12, 2021 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Newtype May 10th issue interviews

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Postby Konja7 » Wed May 12, 2021 1:51 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:Symbolically three coffins for three endings/timelines. (EoTV, EoE, Rebuild)

IIRC, in Jo, we see Kaworu wake up from the fifth coffin.

That said, although we only see nine coffins in Jo, it seems to be more coffins in the moon.

I've read (although I can't confirm it) that there are more open coffins in the Instrumentality scene.

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Postby Kendrix » Wed May 12, 2021 1:59 pm

View Original PostKonja7 wrote:
I've read (although I can't confirm it) that there are more open coffins in the Instrumentality scene.


I've heard someone saying that he sees infinite coffins.
Since the physical coffins on the moon are not infinite, I'd assume that it's a metaphor: Poor Kaworu doesn't know how many more times he's gonna have to do this & starts to feel like it will never end.


Alternatively, the coffins are failed experiments, and Kaworu at this point has some mild supertitions about what a timeline will be like depending from which coffin he sees himself popping up, hence why he says "Ah, it's gonna be the third again" Maybe whenever he pops from the fourth the result is more like manga Kaworu.
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Re: Newtype May 10th issue interviews

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Postby Konja7 » Wed May 12, 2021 2:08 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:I've heard someone saying that he sees infinite coffins.
Since the physical coffins on the moon are not infinite, I'd assume that it's a metaphor: Poor Kaworu doesn't know how many more times he's gonna have to do this & starts to feel like it will never end.

Someone who has seen the scene say it's a flashback (not a metaphor).

I had seen an image. It doesn't seem to literally be infinite coffins, but there is many coffins.

I really need to see the scene to confirm it.

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Postby Pluto » Thu May 13, 2021 6:08 am

It's seems there's a lot of information about the intentions and to what extent things were planned in the newtype interviews. I haven't read the article yet but here's some snippets from this eye's only video here.

Tsurumaki said that they planned to destroy the world of Eva after “Ha”

Tsumaki said
I think I came up with the idea that "another person" is needed in the story in order to end it in a different way from the End of Evangelion.


Tsurumaki also talked about the relationship between Kaoru and Kaji

About 14 years have passed between “Ha” to Q and during production, and the episodes during that time were considered to some extent.
One of them was the idea that Kaoru and Kaji would be the Commander and the Vice Commander.

I thought that I would make an episode with this idea, but what happened was that Q’s story was drawn from 14 years later without warning


Actually this answers a lot of questions wrt to the Kaji Kaoru connection. I'm thinking of how they went through planning the movie and each member proposed scenes to be included. I wonder how far they got in the planning of these "considered episodes" and if there are others.

I can see the connection how Gendo and Fuyutsuki say mysterious things that hint at knowing exactly what's going on behind the scenes. In the same way, Kaoru and Kaji also play this so seeing there pairing in a scenario would be really cool. Surely, they would be revealing tons of secrets. :emogendo:
Oh, the clock is ticking out

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Postby Kendrix » Thu May 13, 2021 10:43 am

So it seems they did definitely consider at least some of what happened during the timeskip.

All our work to puzzle out the order of things etc. from the scenery in Q wasn't in vain, there is, indeed, some kind of real answer being hinted at.
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Re: Newtype May 10th issue interviews

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Postby ElMariachi » Thu May 13, 2021 12:38 pm

SPOILER: Show
View Original PostPluto wrote:It's seems there's a lot of information about the intentions and to what extent things were planned in the newtype interviews. I haven't read the article yet but here's some snippets from this eye's only video here.

Tsurumaki said that they planned to destroy the world of Eva after “Ha”

Tsumaki said
I think I came up with the idea that "another person" is needed in the story in order to end it in a different way from the End of Evangelion.


Tsurumaki also talked about the relationship between Kaoru and Kaji

About 14 years have passed between “Ha” to Q and during production, and the episodes during that time were considered to some extent.
One of them was the idea that Kaoru and Kaji would be the Commander and the Vice Commander.

I thought that I would make an episode with this idea, but what happened was that Q’s story was drawn from 14 years later without warning

Please do not quote entire posts, but only what's most relevant to your post.
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Wait a second, when Tsurumaki said that they "planned to destroy the world of Eva after Ha”, does he meant that it was planned from the beginning to completely depart from NGE's story from Q onward, or that the idea to break everything came after Ha was released?
Because the way he talks about how he thought that he would make an episode with the idea of Kaworu and Kaji as commanders of NERV implies that they actually intended at first to have Q cover the events shown in the next time preview, which goes completely against what they said in the Q booklet where they say that they planned the timeskip from the beginning!

This also confirms that Kaji and Kaworu were the leaders of NERV Japan (and not another branch), which means that NERV was still functional between N3I and A3I.


View Original PostXiel wrote:By the way do the VAs get interviews in this magazine? I keep seeing over twitter Ogata claimed Shinji never recovered so much that was actually broken by despair that obtained some sure of Buddha-like Enlightenment and became like Kaworu (as trying to obtain his own happiness by making other people happy) from her perspective. I need the source because I kinda interpreted it in a similar way lol. :emogendo:

Oh, so I'm not the only one who thinks that! That was a little weird thought that could had been born from me only having the script, so I didn't talked about it yet, but I too had the feeling from what I read that despite regaining hope and all the time he spent at Village-3, Shinji didn't... let's say "connect" with anyone. In contrast, in her short time there, Rei Q completely integrated herself and found a place in the village (to the point that it's heavily implied that Rei II will go back living there after Instrumentality), while Shinji goes with Kensuke or Toji when they ask him to go with there, and then seemingly spends the rest of his time back in the ruins of the NERV building.
I get the feeling that instead of finding a place to belong, he learned that there were still people dear to him that are alive, and thus decided to cast away all his bonds to them (as if he's undeserving of it) in favor of dedicating his entire life to atone for the harm he caused, he even point blank tell this to Toji ("I'll have to make amends for what I did. I want to take responsibility. That's how I'll live.").
Or how he seemingly lacked any curiosity about what exactly happened 14 years ago: when Kensuke said that Kaji sacrificed himself to stop Third Impact, did Shinji actually know that there was another Third Impact after his Near Third Impact, and that his N3I was stopped by Kaworu? Because it could be interpreted that Shinji thought that Kaji died to stop his N3I. Also how in the end he never learned that Asuka's eyepatch was indeed a direct consequence of the 9th Angel infection (he probably suspects it, but never confirms it), that she's still infected by said 9th Angel, as well as what this Curse of Eva is actually about (especially since Asuka hints that Shinji is on his way to be affected by it), which is weird because an important step of accepting responsibility is learning what exactly did you do and how it affected the people you hurt, yet (again, from what I understood of the script) it looks like Shinji decided "this is all my fault and I must repent for everything" and that the details are superfluous, so he must dedicate his entire life to his atonement.
Which is probably why he was ready to kill himself without hesitation to repair the world.
In short, I have the feeling that by the time he recovered, he became a Misato 2.0.
It's a chance that the next time he had the opportunity to act on it was the final battle and that it presented an opportunity to fix everything, because that's the kind of mindset that can very easily become self-destructive. (like, if he had a combat role somewhere or even a slightly dangerous thing to do, he won't hesitate to put his life in danger)
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Re: Newtype May 10th issue interviews

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Postby FelipeFritschF » Fri May 14, 2021 4:01 pm

They gave free access to an interview with a designer:


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Re: Newtype May 10th issue interviews

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Postby Kendrix » Fri May 14, 2021 4:28 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:It's a chance that the next time he had the opportunity to act on it was the final battle and that it presented an opportunity to fix everything, because that's the kind of mindset that can very easily become self-destructive. (like, if he had a combat role somewhere or even a slightly dangerous thing to do, he won't hesitate to put his life in danger)


Reading only the script I see why some ppl could get the idea that it was a miraculous turnaround or something, but once I saw actual clips I definitely get the sense that Shinji is very much still in a state throughout it, he's just trying very hard to pull himself together & running on 'cold' fury/determination.

He acts pretty subdued on the Wunder, just sits there penitently taking Asuka's smack talk & says exactly what she wants him to hear.
For example, he barely reacts when Mari tackles him from behind and gets way up in his personal space (in contrast to how his younger self was super flustered)


But it doesn't end there, precisely: In the end, his parents take the axe for him (it was their mess after all) and Mari comes to retrieve him (and he is super shocked when she does - a detail that I really love & kind of was the detail that really "sold" it for me. )
Mari sounds really glad, too. As if to say, "Yes, you dummy, it's just like Rei said, ppl care about you. It's safe to believe that now."
I guess after she saw Asuka get eaten in front of her she's just glad she didn't see another comrade die.



i do really hope we get to read the whole thing in context soon
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Re: Newtype May 10th issue interviews

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Postby Konja7 » Fri May 14, 2021 4:43 pm

SPOILER: Show
View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Oh, so I'm not the only one who thinks that! That was a little weird thought that could had been born from me only having the script, so I didn't talked about it yet, but I too had the feeling from what I read that despite regaining hope and all the time he spent at Village-3, Shinji didn't... let's say "connect" with anyone. In contrast, in her short time there, Rei Q completely integrated herself and found a place in the village (to the point that it's heavily implied that Rei II will go back living there after Instrumentality), while Shinji goes with Kensuke or Toji when they ask him to go with there, and then seemingly spends the rest of his time back in the ruins of the NERV building.
I get the feeling that instead of finding a place to belong, he learned that there were still people dear to him that are alive, and thus decided to cast away all his bonds to them (as if he's undeserving of it) in favor of dedicating his entire life to atone for the harm he caused, he even point blank tell this to Toji ("I'll have to make amends for what I did. I want to take responsibility. That's how I'll live.").
Or how he seemingly lacked any curiosity about what exactly happened 14 years ago: when Kensuke said that Kaji sacrificed himself to stop Third Impact, did Shinji actually know that there was another Third Impact after his Near Third Impact, and that his N3I was stopped by Kaworu? Because it could be interpreted that Shinji thought that Kaji died to stop his N3I. Also how in the end he never learned that Asuka's eyepatch was indeed a direct consequence of the 9th Angel infection (he probably suspects it, but never confirms it), that she's still infected by said 9th Angel, as well as what this Curse of Eva is actually about (especially since Asuka hints that Shinji is on his way to be affected by it), which is weird because an important step of accepting responsibility is learning what exactly did you do and how it affected the people you hurt, yet (again, from what I understood of the script) it looks like Shinji decided "this is all my fault and I must repent for everything" and that the details are superfluous, so he must dedicate his entire life to his atonement.
Which is probably why he was ready to kill himself without hesitation to repair the world.
In short, I have the feeling that by the time he recovered, he became a Misato 2.0.
It's a chance that the next time he had the opportunity to act on it was the final battle and that it presented an opportunity to fix everything, because that's the kind of mindset that can very easily become self-destructive. (like, if he had a combat role somewhere or even a slightly dangerous thing to do, he won't hesitate to put his life in danger)

Please do not quote too much, but only what's most relevant to your post. Thanks.
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Well, Shinji knows humans call the event he released as Near Third Impact. So, he should know the Third Impact that Kaji stopped is a different event (Kensuke also speak about both events).

In fact, in Q, Kaworu indicated both events were different when he explained the situation to Shinji. The red land is due to the Third Impact, while the Near Third Impact is what initiated everything.

I think we can assume Shinji knows what happened and how the events are connected, since Touji or Kensuke could tell him all the detail at any point.

It's the audience who doesn't know how the events are connected.


PD: Honestly, I suspect Anno prefer to give vague explanation to the audience.
Last edited by Konja7 on Fri May 14, 2021 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Joseki » Fri May 14, 2021 4:49 pm

I don't think Kaworu was very clear to Shinji in Q and I'm convinced the only thing Shinji understood of everything that Kaworu told him was "you tried to save Rei but you killed mankind, too bad". The difference between N3I and 3I is completely lost to Shinji in Q.

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Postby Konja7 » Fri May 14, 2021 4:58 pm

View Original PostJoseki wrote:I don't think Kaworu was very clear to Shinji in Q and I'm convinced the only thing Shinji understood of everything that Kaworu told him was "you tried to save Rei but you killed mankind, too bad". The difference between N3I and 3I is completely lost to Shinji in Q.


According to Midori, that wouldn't be a bad interpretation:

Midori: "You're a disease! Do you know what humanity's been through thanks to you and your Near Third Impact!? This is all your fault, you and your father...! I won't let you do it!"

That said, she is angry because the Near Third Impact killed her whole family.


In Shin, it's confirmed the Near Third Impact was a pretty terrible event by itself (although we still don't know how it initiated everything).

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Postby ElMariachi » Fri May 14, 2021 7:34 pm

View Original PostJoseki wrote:I don't think Kaworu was very clear to Shinji in Q and I'm convinced the only thing Shinji understood of everything that Kaworu told him was "you tried to save Rei but you killed mankind, too bad". The difference between N3I and 3I is completely lost to Shinji in Q.

Agreed, hell he didn't even noticed the discrepancy between what Kaworu told him and the fact that Kaworu later calls Lilith's corpse the epicenter of Third Impact.


View Original PostKonja7 wrote:In Shin, it's confirmed the Near Third Impact was a pretty terrible event by itself (although we still don't know how it initiated everything).

And personally that's the grip I have with this whole deal: to accept your responsibility and start acting to make up for it, the first step is to learn exactly what you did and what were the consequences, instead of that Shinji took upon himself a blanket "everything is my fault, I must amend for everything".

Just, if his near impact killed most of the world and turned them to FoIs, then why have a second third impact to do it again, to extra-purify them whiter than white? And if N"I didn't turned this majority of the world population to FoIs, then how could had Shinji's Neon Genesis brought everyone back to life? And if his N3I "only" started the process without turning anything to core (but still ravaging Tokyo-3) and the later actual Third Impact is what turned the planet to core and killed everyone, then why does the movies puts all the blame on Shinji, when SEELE intended to have their land-cleansing Impact anyway no matter what Shinji or Gendo did before?
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Re: Newtype May 10th issue interviews

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Postby Konja7 » Fri May 14, 2021 8:17 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:And personally that's the grip I have with this whole deal: to accept your responsibility and start acting to make up for it, the first step is to learn exactly what you did and what were the consequences, instead of that Shinji took upon himself a blanket "everything is my fault, I must amend for everything".

Just, if his near impact killed most of the world and turned them to FoIs, then why have a second third impact to do it again, to extra-purify them whiter than white? And if N"I didn't turned this majority of the world population to FoIs, then how could had Shinji's Neon Genesis brought everyone back to life? And if his N3I "only" started the process without turning anything to core (but still ravaging Tokyo-3) and the later actual Third Impact is what turned the planet to core and killed everyone, then why does the movies puts all the blame on Shinji, when SEELE intended to have their land-cleansing Impact anyway no matter what Shinji or Gendo did before?

Regarding the theory that the Third Impact stopped by Kaji is a continuation from Shinji's Near Third Impact, the responsability would be on Shinji because that Third Impact wouldn't happened without Shinji's Near Third Impact.

Another theory I read: Although the (Near) Third Impact in Ha was stopped, different parts of the land started to be gradually corified. Then, the Third Impact finally happened and completed the corification of the land. This theory is because the Failures of the Infinity (which are souls) started to move in Shin, which could be related to the stopped Fourth Impact in Q.


In itself, I think Anno doesn't want to give direct answers in this aspect, which is quite common from him. He likely wants people to imagine what happened with the information and clues the movies gives (everything being initiated by Shinji's Near Third Impact is another clue).

As you say, it is pretty irritating that the movie put the blame on Shinji without a direct explanation.

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Postby Konja7 » Sat May 15, 2021 5:39 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:
View Original PostJoseki#922805 wrote:I don't think Kaworu was very clear to Shinji in Q and I'm convinced the only thing Shinji understood of everything that Kaworu told him was "you tried to save Rei but you killed mankind, too bad". The difference between N3I and 3I is completely lost to Shinji in Q.

Agreed, hell he didn't even noticed the discrepancy between what Kaworu told him and the fact that Kaworu later calls Lilith's corpse the epicenter of Third Impact.

Well, Kaworu didn't say Shinji started the Third Impact. He just say the Near Third Impact was the trigger for the Third Impact.

Kaworu: Ikari Shinji-kun, once Awakened, Eva-01 opened the Door of Guf and became the trigger for Third Impact. Lilin call it Near Third Impact. It was all initiated by you.

So, maybe Shinji understand that the Near Third Impact and the Third Impact are different events, but he still feels responsible because the Near Third Impact he released was the trigger.

In fact, Shinji not saying anything (when Kaworu calls Lilith's corpse the epicenter of Third Impact) could mean he understand the Near Third Impact and the Third Impact are different events.


I think the creators want the audience to know Shinji is responsible for everything without giving details of how the events unfolded.

That's why they choose Kaworu (who often speak in a cryptic way) to give the explanation in Q.
Last edited by Konja7 on Sat May 15, 2021 6:33 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Newtype May 10th issue interviews

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Postby Raikyu » Sat May 15, 2021 6:19 am

View Original PostKonja7 wrote:I think the creators want the audience to know Shinji is responsible for everything without giving details of how the events unfolded.

That's why they choose Kaworu (who often speak in a cryptic way) to give the explanation in Q.

To be honest, sometimes it is better to leave things ambiguous and vague rather than convoluted and messy.

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Postby one-eyed » Sat May 15, 2021 6:49 am

Konja7 wrote: I think the creators want the audience to know Shinji is responsible for everything without giving details of how the events unfolded.

That's why they choose Kaworu (who often speak in a cryptic way) to give the explanation in Q.


Raikyu wrote: To be honest, sometimes it is better to leave things ambiguous and vague rather than convoluted and messy.


This has always been something that bothered me: how did Shinji start N3I and what phenomena is he responsible for? The Evas appear in Lilith's Chamber that Kaworu calls the center of the A3I, so I think they are discarded. Is he responsible for the corefication of the world? So there should be no more humans because they would not survive without hazmat suits, neither the flora nor the fauna and everyone would die of hunger. In addition, it has the logistics of the transformations of Neo-Nerv, of the thousands of Evas, of the Wunders, of the struggle of the remaining angels, etc. I don't think that will ever be explained, maybe the only important things are the emotions of the story and not the facts and the mechanics of what happened.

How did it happen? What did Shinji really do? Without knowing exactly how he fired Eva, it is impossible to assess his guilt! Eva 02 had built-in pillars and needed a code to remove them (“Za Beasto!” For Mari and “Code 777” or “Code 999” for Asuka) and, in Q, when Asuka's battery runs out, the panels don ' t turn black because there's a minimum of energy for safekeep the internal inhibitor pillars working. Maya even says that Eva 01 inhibitors have disappeared (or most likely never existed!). For me, that would be sabotage, the Eva 01 had been prepared to generate an impact, so what would be Shinji's sin? People died at N3I like the parents of Midori and Sakura, but he was just as much a victim as they were. Kaworu, Kaji and Mari were not even scared and Kaworu called it “Promised Moment” and then 2.0 ended there was a scene in which Unit 01 appeared surrounded by the pillars, and then all of that is ignored.

I've been asking this for 9 years. Most people just ignore it, but a Shinji hater replied that how it doesn't matter, what matters is that he is to blame. I think Anno wrote this situation thinking about it.

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Re: Newtype May 10th issue interviews

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Postby Raikyu » Sat May 15, 2021 10:06 am

View Original Postone-eyed wrote:I've been asking this for 9 years. Most people just ignore it, but a Shinji hater replied that how it doesn't matter, what matters is that he is to blame. I think Anno wrote this situation thinking about it.

Yeah, I get it. I have been asking the same too. And all of those mysteries are giving me headaches. But the more I think about it, the more I believe that it is really hard to answer those questions with credible answers.


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