ElMariachi wrote:What does Asuka says to Shinji?

Nuke's translation is "God, you're useless".

Kensuke says "Sorry I'm late"; then "You holding up, Ikari?"

The wrist screen says "WARNING / BATTERY EXTREMELY LOW".

ElMariachi wrote:

wiser3754#922507 wrote:Is th is the one you're talking about? It shows Shinji with his suit displaying a warning message on his wrist.

https://youtu.be/1xy9wgwyFGA

What does Asuka says to Shinji?

More importantly, how does Kensuke's 4x4 work when the oxygen is irradiated? How does engine burn fuel?

Also anyone find it bizarre that the village wasn't affected at all by Fourth Inpact? Oh yeah this too, how many deaths from 4I? None? Jeez louise.

pwhodges wrote:

ElMariachi#922515 wrote:What does Asuka says to Shinji?

Nuke's translation is "God, you're useless".

Kensuke says "Sorry I'm late"; then "You holding up, Ikari?"

The wrist screen says "WARNING / BATTERY EXTREMELY LOW".

On the money. The line in Japanese is 根性なしが, 根性 konjou being like guts, grit, determination and then modified with a negative suffix. Kensuke shows up in his Suzuki right after. Now that I have time to look, his plates are registered to Nerima, one of the 23 special wards of Tokyo. (Nerima shares a border with Suginami, which is home to Khara's headquarters.)

I can't tell if the plates are yellow in that shot, but I know there are shots of his car later in the film. If they're yellow, he's driving a special kind of light vehicle called a Kei car which is lighter and uses less fuel than a traditional full-sized vehicle. It sure looks a lot like this Suzuki Jimny JA71, but that's just from my limited memory of later in the film and what little we see here.

wiser3754 wrote:Also anyone find it bizarre that the village wasn't affected at all by Fourth Inpact? Oh yeah this too, how many deaths from 4I? None? Jeez louise.

Well, the 4I was stopped pretty fast in Q. So, it didn't have time to expand it's destructive power beyond its center.

Village-3 is still far from Neo-NERV's headquarters.

pwhodges wrote:

ElMariachi#922515 wrote:What does Asuka says to Shinji?

Nuke's translation is "God, you're useless".

Kensuke says "Sorry I'm late"; then "You holding up, Ikari?"

The wrist screen says "WARNING / BATTERY EXTREMELY LOW".

That's about what I expected!
A shame that Mari's plea to him to at least "help the Princess" in Q fell on deaf ears.

wiser3754 wrote:More importantly, how does Kensuke's 4x4 work when the oxygen is irradiated? How does engine burn fuel?

Also anyone find it bizarre that the village wasn't affected at all by Fourth Inpact? Oh yeah this too, how many deaths from 4I? None? Jeez louise.

I don't think that L-Barrier changes the oxygen in the air, or else Asuka, Shinji and Rei Q wouldn't had been able to breathe during their trek in the red desert.
L-Barrier gradually changes inanimate objects to core material, starting by the bottom, and tangs living beings (as we see with Fuyutsuki) and the density influences how fact that conversion happens: in place with lower density such as the one where the trio are picked up, it's low enough that a 4X4 can reach them and come back to safety before being affected, on the other end of the spectrum, in Paris (where the density is extremely high) we one of EVA-08's shield ships crashing on the ground, and one minute later it's already almost entirely turned to core.

It's also possible that whatever technology in the plugsuit protect them from the effects of the barrier is also present in the vehicles and hazmat suits used by Kensuke and the Kredit people in the purification laboratory to prevent them from immediately starting to turn to core (which would be inconvenient for car tires) but has a set time limit before that protection gets "overwhelmed", limit increasing with the density of the barrier, requiring heavier protection probably reserved for WILLE personnel.

Kendrix wrote:That's DEFINITELY new footage

alas the quality isn't good enough to read all the details.

All in all the wasteland scene seems to have compressed a lot from the initial drafts, there's some shots from 'until you come to me' and 'peaceful times' that weren't there (mainly ReiQ looking out at the ocean and eating food, as well as that bird's eye shot of Asuka doing some more kicking, a shot where Shinji has a blanket...)

The locations are similar tho (Asuka looks at her meter by the sea, and the kicking is in that same place where they're spending the night) so this might've been time cuts.

Or, it was a drawn out scene, & became a montage in that rewrite that scrapped the first 40 minutes

I think that the main reason that sequence was cut was because nothing interesting happens: it's basically the three pilot walking among red scenery (with Shinji wobbling slightly behind) with the occasional pause to eat or Asuka kicking Shinji's butt to make him catch up, all of this without an exchange of words. 20 minutes of this (or even worse, 40!) would be utterly boring.
It could had worked if there were scenes to breaks the monotony, such as the characters discussing and helping each other. IIRC, this and Mari's request to Shinji to at least help her was the basis the theory that Shinji would get out of his catatonic phase during the desert trekking and that the big convo/confrontation between he and Asuka could take place there, but Anno had other plans.

Nuclear Lunchbox wrote:Kensuke shows up in his Suzuki right after. Now that I have time to look, his plates are registered to Nerima, one of the 23 special wards of Tokyo. (Nerima shares a border with Suginami, which is home to Khara's headquarters.)

I can't tell if the plates are yellow in that shot, but I know there are shots of his car later in the film. If they're yellow, he's driving a special kind of light vehicle called a Kei car which is lighter and uses less fuel than a traditional full-sized vehicle. It sure looks a lot like this Suzuki Jimny JA71, but that's just from my limited memory of later in the film and what little we see here.

It would make sense to have a light-consumption car in a world where resources are scarce (and very dangerous to obtain, with high risk of tanging or being mauled by giant bio-mechanical death bots)
Speaking of cars, I remember a tweet from Yamashita saying that Misato's old electric sports car is present in Village-3, but I didn't understand if he wrote that the idea was scrapped later or not.

Konja7 wrote:Well, the 4I was stopped pretty fast in Q. So, it didn't have time to expand it's destructive power beyond its center.

I think it's more that it had a different purpose - not to "purify the land" but "purify the souls" - it did have an effect: The red giants are suddenly moving purposefully

Kendrix wrote:I think it's more that it had a different purpose - not to "purify the land" but "purify the souls" - it did have an effect: The red giants are suddenly moving purposefully

It's true that red giants (souls) suddenly moving is likely an effect of the Fourth Impact in Q.

However, the Fourth Impact will likely be destructive if it isn't stopped. The Second Impact has "purify the sea" as a purpose, but it still killed half of humanity.

So, Village-3 being far from Neo-NERV headquarters and the Fourth Impact being stopped would be the main reason why no one died.

ElMariachi wrote:I think that the main reason that sequence was cut was because nothing interesting happens: it's basically the three pilot walking among red scenery (with Shinji wobbling slightly behind) with the occasional pause to eat or Asuka kicking Shinji's butt to make him catch up, all of this without an exchange of words. 20 minutes of this (or even worse, 40!) would be utterly boring.
It could had worked if there were scenes to breaks the monotony, such as the characters discussing and helping each other. IIRC, this and Mari's request to Shinji to at least help her was the basis the theory that Shinji would get out of his catatonic phase during the desert trekking and that the big convo/confrontation between he and Asuka could take place there, but Anno had other plans.

If you're overly afraid of boring your audience, sure, but many a director have made incredible pieces out of 'nothing happening.' Who wouldn't want to see the Red Earth anime version of Stalker? The fact the landscape is glossed over is a wasted opportunity to me. I'm not even arguing really that it needed any more than 10 minutes--but just a ~1 minute montage?

We get to see some of the effects when Kensuke is taking Shinji around Village-3. It's not the same kind of broad, sweeping tour that you're talking about, but the outside world isn't entirely left alone. Though I do agree, perhaps it would have been nice to see-- but maybe just from an aesthetic viewpoint. Would it necessarily fit with the theme of the story to spend so much time on a dead world when the plot has other places it would like to go?

@NuclearLunchbox Do you think this has something to do with runtime restrictions set by theaters? Sejoon Kim did say they were struggling to get it run for two hours back in 2019 which also lampshaded by Khara2 last year because of that reason. We did get a quite lengthy runtime in the end and by reading your impressions, the film sounds very well-paced, but I do wonder if you feel there's any room additional scenes (e.g. interim character moments) just to smoothen it up even further like 1.11 and 2.22 did.

Tbh I'm quite surprised that the end credits is like nearly 10 minutes long and the fact that the 3 minutes recap is indeed a part of the 155 minutes runtime.

I do hope that, like the alt live action scene, some of the cut bits and the scrapped alpha version of the first 40 minutes will eventually be a DVD extra.

Nuclear Lunchbox wrote:We get to see some of the effects when Kensuke is taking Shinji around Village-3. It's not the same kind of broad, sweeping tour that you're talking about, but the outside world isn't entirely left alone. Though I do agree, perhaps it would have been nice to see-- but maybe just from an aesthetic viewpoint. Would it necessarily fit with the theme of the story to spend so much time on a dead world when the plot has other places it would like to go?

I remember the relevant dialogue from the transcript and hoped that was the case, though it seemed like it could've also been referring to off-camera things. Thanks for confirming.

As for if it would have had thematic function, I suppose it depends on how it would've been executed. I understand Shin had a lot to wrestle with already in terms of all the dominos that had been set up that needed to start falling, but I find it unfortunate that things like what could've been an atmospheric journey were victims of the chopping block. The lingering shot at the end of Q with all the pilots wandering into the red landscape has sat with me for so many years and I was expecting for it to be crucial and explored--when I saw the amazon footage with the montage credits I ended up feeling like, 'wait, that's it?'

I guess we always have Until You Come to Me.

It felt a bit longer to me in the theater when I was watching it, while also not lingering longer than I thought it needed. The journey certainly could have been longer, but I think it fits quite nicely in the opening sequence along with the music.

GhostlyOcam wrote:We did get a quite lengthy runtime in the end and by reading your impressions, the film sounds very well-paced, but I do wonder if you feel there's any room additional scenes (e.g. interim character moments) just to smoothen it up even further like 1.11 and 2.22 did.

You'll never hear me say I wish we had less Evangelion, but TuaT is already a pretty long film. I suppose there'd be room for a LOTR-style extended edition that's even longer with even more beats, but I don't think it's necessary. What we get is a product capable of standing on its own.

Nuclear Lunchbox wrote:I'd be cautious about using it precisely because of your reaction, since I don't know how far that "maybe all the pilots are artificial" theory is going to spread now.

Don't worry, that theory rests on more than one pillar, and has been around since long before Asuka made it obvious throughout Shin. I think most people caught on to Shinji's special nature when his eyes began to glow red in Ha. But that's a topic for another thread, as Shinji seems to be the only one born to two human parents, which doesn't preclude him being something else, but that's a topic for another time.

Edit: Reichu's explanation for why she translated it as "pseudo" (and, I know this will be frowned upon, but the dictionary also gives "pseudo" as literally the first meaning):

[00:28:57, 554] "You're still a pseudo-Lilin." Pseudo-Lilin" is リリンもどき (Lilin-modoki). "X-modoki" means "X-like", "mock X", "pseudo-X", and so forth. I've gone for "pseudo-" since it helps bring out this particular continuation of NTE's "false vs. true" thematic dichotomy. (Incidentally, "-modoki" can be written in kanji as 擬き. The "pseudo-" used in NTE in Ha and Q is 擬似, giji; note the kanji in common.)

There is a "rule of 3" going on with -modoki in Shin. It was used during Avant 1 upon the arrival of 4444C, which Mari referred to as 使徒ごどき ("shito-modoki"), or a "pseudo-Angel". The suffix will appear again in "part 2" during Eva-02 and Eva-08's drop, providing エヴァもどき ("Eva-modoki"), or "pseudo-Eva", that time around. Shito-modoki, Lilin-modoki, Eva-modoki? Curious indeed...

Axx°N N. wrote:I understand Shin had a lot to wrestle with already in terms of all the dominos that had been set up that needed to start falling, but I find it unfortunate that things like what could've been an atmospheric journey were victims of the chopping block.

I was surprised, too. I expected a longer sequence there, given that the movie spends a lot of time doing athmospheric sequences anyway, so I was surprised to see it take all of two minutes or so. Could definitely have used some more breathing space, just to give a feeling that their journey took some time; I doubt Village 3 sits right besides the Geofront. They walked for at least a day and part of a night. Could have used a few more shots.

I don't take any particular issue with pseudo-Angel and pseudo-Eva, considering their appearance and construction. ("Imitation Angel" and "Imitation Eva" would also be fine translations, seeing as modoki also appears in, of all things, some brands of imitation crab meat.) But while missing from the most obvious English resources like Jisho or Weblio's English version, Japanese thesauri list a meaning of being a match for, or equaling, or even being equivalent to something else.

Shinji's status as being modoki with regard to Lilim is what predicates Asuka's comment that if he doesn't eat, he can't survive. A pseudo-Angel isn't quite an Angel, a pseudo-Eva isn't quite an Eva, and they're presumably inferior to the things upon which they are based (if Mari and Asuka's contempt for them is any indication.) If Shinji's continued status (indicated by まだ) of being pseudo-human is part of what requires him to eat, then the alternative clearly isn't being fully human, since humans have to eat anyway. Asuka doesn't have to eat, and judging by her outburst might even not be able to eat, so she's different than Shinji in that regard. My presumption (yes, I'm presuming something) is that Asuka doesn't call herself modoki, and places herself in the category of whatever she'd call someone who has a body that never changes, someone effected by the Curse/Bindings of Eva.

So what does being pseudo-human imply? If Shinji stops being a pseudo-human and becomes whatever Asuka is, is that better, worse, or just different? If pseudo-Angel and pseudo-Eva are used contemptuously, it would seem to imply a step down from being the real deal. Is pseudo-human actually a step up from being a Lilin, giving Shinji the characteristics of something greater but still leaving him with the weaknesses (?) of the Lilim before he becomes... something else? Or is it a step down from whatever he could be, giving him Lilim weaknesses (?) while leaving him with characteristics of whatever the "something else" is?

It seems like one way or another that in Shinji's case, "pseudo-" isn't behaving congruent to its other uses. Maybe pseudo-human is inferior to being human but still superior in Asuka's mind to whatever she is (whatever Asuka is, she certainly doesn't seem to like it), but then we have a pseudo-something in an enviable position. The discussion feels similar to someone assuming that a word like "trapdoor" must necessarily incorporate meanings of the word "trap" in its uses since those four letters appear in the starting position of the word.

"Like the Lilim" avoids connotations that "pseudo-" may introduce or not appropriately express. I brought this up back during the Curse of Eva discussion, where "Curse" may have obfuscated discussion ever since usage of that term first popped up here in Xard's initial 2chan translations. There may well be a word in Evangelion that's been translated as "pseudo" (疑似 giji), but I don't know if I want to apply it to a different word.

There's the basis for the decision I made and why I don't think "pseudo" is a good fit.

Nuclear Lunchbox wrote:I don't take any particular issue with pseudo-Angel and pseudo-Eva, considering their appearance and construction. ("Imitation Angel" and "Imitation Eva" would also be fine translations, seeing as modoki also appears in, of all things, some brands of imitation crab meat.) But while missing from the most obvious English resources like Jisho or Weblio's English version, Japanese thesauri list a meaning of being a match for, or equaling, or even being equivalent to something else.

I don't see why this Modoki has to be different from the previous two Modoki, or why a less obvious translation of Modoki - one not even commonly listed - is somehow more appropriate when the term "pseudo" makes complete sense. Reading through your post, I see no clear refutation of what Derantor posted, or any proper reason why the dictionary meanings that Derantor found should be ignored.

Your new translation of "jubaku" makes good sense in context, and both of us have gone over why. However, I really don't see the logic in choosing an alternative translation for Modoki, or using it to argue that the pilots are not artificial when there already was enough evidence even before Shin Eva that none of them were "Lilin" in the proper sense. "Pseudo" is a perfectly good translation, and it doesn't need to be brought into question simply because the person translating it (Reichu) isn't a professional translator.

Because translators don't translate rote from dictionaries, Ursus. Translators read, watch, and listen to the source material, making decisions that are based not only on the words themselves, but on the surrounding context and delivery. It sounds like you're predicating your argument on "pseudo" being the definitive translation for modoki, when the collocations (the frequent use of a word next to other words) of modoki both in Japanese and in translation don't support such an interpretation. I'm not sure why you're referring to my work as an "alternate" translation, considering thus far there is no definitive English translation from any official licensee.

But interestingly enough, there is an official translation that isn't in Japanese. It's actually in French, from the 2019 Avant premiere. 天使もどき is translated as faux anges. I'm on good terms with a JP --> FR translator previously with Nintendo of Europe who was happy to weigh in. Using the official French, we put together an argument for the best English translation inspired both by the original Japanese and by the only official translation we have.

Faux is a loan word in English without the same French nuance, so "faux angel" would not be appropriate. Neither, he argues, would "pseudo-angel": in his professional opinion, English "pseudo" implies too much outside modoki. He even went so far as to argue that French would have gone with pseudo-anges if such connotations were intended. His conclusion: based on our knowledge of how Avant has been officially translated into French, "imitation Angels" would the most appropriate, not "pseudo-Angels". (And later in the film, perhaps imitation Evas. He suggests the notion that all modoki be translated the same rather than based on the context at hand, given its multiple uses, is weak at best. Without a specific order from a producer, he would seek out a different translation for each context.) This is, of course, merely informed speculation. But our expertise and experience is not to be dismissed out of hand. "Pseudo" is no more perfectly good than it is banally bland.

EGF has used many translations for discussion purposes, from myriad unofficial sources. Some are from 4chan, some are from EGF users, and some are from myself. None are sanctioned by Khara, and none are more "official" than any other. Though with that said, only one of these sources is definitively known to live in Japan, speak Japanese, work as a professional translator, and to have actually seen the movie in question.

There's another five paragraphs on my logic for not translating modoki as pseudo. People may use whichever translation they like, but I think I have enough reason to generate my own translations as well.

How does it compare to whatever ReiQ is described as by Kaworu? ("A lillim imitation won't do, her soul is in another place")

Nuclear Lunchbox wrote:So what does being pseudo-human imply? If Shinji stops being a pseudo-human and becomes whatever Asuka is, is that better, worse, or just different? If pseudo-Angel and pseudo-Eva are used contemptuously, it would seem to imply a step down from being the real deal. Is pseudo-human actually a step up from being a Lilin, giving Shinji the characteristics of something greater but still leaving him with the weaknesses (?) of the Lilim before he becomes... something else? Or is it a step down from whatever he could be, giving him Lilim weaknesses (?) while leaving him with characteristics of whatever the "something else" is?

Well, Asuka does say that the pilots were only designed/artificially given/ made to mimic human-like limitations and behavior. (so "imitation" does make logical sense)
Maybe some of this comes off over time, or with prolonged exposure to angel/EVA material.
Hence why Asuka can smash security glass with her bare hands, quickly regenerates her eye once the pillar is removed, & is living on water alone.

It seems that Mari at least can still drink tea.

When it comes to her behavior/feelings though she's probably meant to be pessimistic, since we later hear Mari tell her that as far as she's concerned she's still human in the ways that count.
She probably fell further into her tendency to like suppress all soft & affectionate feelings cause they're "fake" anyways, or that was her excuse. (in reality, it must've hurt a lot to finally get a sense of normalcy, friends, family etc... and then it disappears again leaving new wounds, at the same time that she is injured, disfigured, transformed, finds out the details of her creation & has to live through one or two apocalyptic events...She's acting a lot like a typical war veteran really. )

I'd see why you would make a soldier a hypercompetitive aggressive person, an adrenaline junkie with low threat/stress responses or a a stoic, hardworking person who loyally follows orders.
Shinji requires a bit more explanation as he seems very far from good soldier material. Either Yui left him relatively un-tweaked cause she wanted him to be like a normal baby so she could play house for a bit before leaving, or they made him a sensitive, emotional type on purpose because his 'role' is specifically to cause awakening events.

Kendrix wrote:How does it compare to whatever ReiQ is described as by Kaworu? ("A lillim imitation won't do, her soul is in another place")

I think Kaworu called Rei Q a lillim imitation, because she doesn't have a soul in her body.

The discussion was that they need two souls to use the lances.


PS: Unlike other souless clones, Rei Q seems to have a will and emotions because she is connected to Rei II's soul.

Crack theory (don't take too seriously): When ReiQ sees the apparition in the tube, that's actually Rei's soul/composite being figuring that something interesting seems of be going on with this vessel, I'm gonna inhabit it for a bit/ stuff a bit more soul/attention in here, & that's why ReiQ slowly starts having more reactions from this point on, like looking back in some sort of worry when Shinji storms off in a daze after she can't answer his questions.

When Rei comes back, now having all the memories, she's probably gonna thank Hikari & her family for helping her sort of have the nice childhood memories she never got to have & generally act a little less like she completely missed out on that -maybe she'll even move in with them & stay there until she's all grown up.Tsubame's first two words are 'Papa' and 'mama' but the third one is 'Big Sis'