https://twitter.com/ikuto_yamashita/sta ... 2865215493

the little mark.04As being released makes me happy. Kinda wondering what are the pyramids above it

If I had to wager a guess, it would be that those pyramids are something ATF/impact-related. The orange/purple colors on there are usually a shorthand for supernatural/deification stuff in NTE
EDIT: I have been informed that the wings of light eminate from these pyramids; ATF/impact shenaniganery indeed
EDIT 2: Reichu has translated the subtitles and audio description on her blog, this here is the passage in question, audio description in green:

Misato(?):
The Gates of Hell are opening again...

(Warship 2's towers emit light.)

Misato(?):
It can't be!

(Warship 3's, as well.)

Misato(?):
Wings of light?
They plan to make Fourth Impact happen the same way Second did?

Blockio wrote:If I had to wager a guess, it would be that those pyramids are something ATF/impact-related. The orange/purple colors on there are usually a shorthand for supernatural/deification stuff in NTE
EDIT: I have been informed that the wings of light eminate from these pyramids; ATF/impact shenaniganery indeed
EDIT 2: Reichu has translated the subtitles and audio description on her blog, this here is the passage in question, audio description in green:

Misato(?):
The Gates of Hell are opening again...

(Warship 2's towers emit light.)

Misato(?):
It can't be!

(Warship 3's, as well.)

Misato(?):
Wings of light?
They plan to make Fourth Impact happen the same way Second did?

Yes, and the captured Wunder emits the same "wings of light" as the other three ships, but form the three radar antennas it has in their place.

It's weird how replacing the cristals/pyramids with normal-looking radar antennas has no effect whatsoever in obstructing this capability!

I think this is the closest explanation to why Mari calls the sinking ships "Adams" later in the movie: They're basically acting as stand-ins for the four Adams of second impact. They're still (most likely) not the (orignal) Adams themselves, so it feels weird.

DantesInferno wrote:I think this is the closest explanation to why Mari calls the sinking ships "Adams" later in the movie: They're basically acting as stand-ins for the four Adams of second impact. They're still (most likely) not the (orignal) Adams themselves, so it feels weird.

I don't think she would call them Adams, if they were replacements, but I could be wrong.

Raikyu wrote:

DantesInferno#920778 wrote:I think this is the closest explanation to why Mari calls the sinking ships "Adams" later in the movie: They're basically acting as stand-ins for the four Adams of second impact. They're still (most likely) not the (orignal) Adams themselves, so it feels weird.

I don't think she would call them Adams, if they were replacements, but I could be wrong.

Yes, I know. But to me it makes less sense that the ships were the Adams all along, instead of Evas 01, Mark 06 and 13.
Perhaps the whole Ship + Adams Vessel (i.e. Opfer Type) combo acts a body to host the original Adams souls, so they’re “reincarnations”, not “replacements”. And the remaing Adams (the evas mentioned above) somehow lost their souls at 2I…?

DantesInferno wrote:Perhaps the whole Ship + Adams Vessel (i.e. Opfer Type) combo acts a body to host the original Adams souls, so they’re “reincarnations”, not “replacements”. And the remaing Adams (the evas mentioned above) somehow lost their souls at 2I…?

That's an interesting theory. Maybe not just the soul, but the cores too, because we know that the mark.9 (an Opfer Type) is all made of core. Some people say that the meaning of "Adams' Vessels" is vessel of Adam's souls, because the term "Vessel" in Evangelion usually means carrier of a soul, which is the purpose (or one of the purposes) of the cores.

Btw, I was reading the translation of the script, made by Reichu, and I found an interesting line: "The artificial recreation of Lilith, along with the forced siphoning of the Black Moon into a spear. " This is more about Lilith and not the Adams, so I don't know if this is is out of topic, but it's interesting how Lilith is still important to the lore. What are your thoughts about this line of the script?

Raikyu wrote:

DantesInferno#920823 wrote:Perhaps the whole Ship + Adams Vessel (i.e. Opfer Type) combo acts a body to host the original Adams souls, so they’re “reincarnations”, not “replacements”. And the remaing Adams (the evas mentioned above) somehow lost their souls at 2I…?

That's an interesting theory. Maybe not just the soul, but the cores too, because we know that the mark.9 (an Opfer Type) is all made of core. Some people say that the meaning of "Adams' Vessels" is vessel of Adam's souls, because the term "Vessel" in Evangelion usually means carrier of a soul, which is the purpose (or one of the purposes) of the cores.

Yes indeed. I'm still arguing with Reichu on Twitter wether the Mark 09 was salvaged or rebuilt from scratch (lol). I wonder if we'll ever know with some confidence what on Earth the vessels actually are...

Raikyu wrote:Btw, I was reading the translation of the script, made by Reichu, and I found an interesting line: "The artificial recreation of Lilith, along with the forced siphoning of the Black Moon into a spear. " This is more about Lilith and not the Adams, so I don't know if this is is out of topic, but it's interesting how Lilith is still important to the lore. What are your thoughts about this line of the script?

I read that too; had forgotten that line from the movie (or didn't quite catch it).

This seems to reinforce the idea that Lilith was somehow involved in 2I? Perhaps that's what the 5th cross means? (and not a "central Adams"?). Gendo mentions the Golgotha object being left behind with the Adams and the spears, but there's no mention of Lilith. Not sure what to make of that; where does Lilith come from? Is it from the same "ancestral race" as the Adams? This "non-human someone" is clearly not Seele, otherwise Gendo would say so.

I think Gendo needed to make the giant spear for some reason, perhaps to activate the Hell's gate? And he needed the black moon because, maybe the spears can only be made out of a special, extraterrestrial/angelic matter (e.g., the Wunder spine).

DantesInferno wrote:

Raikyu#920826 wrote:This seems to reinforce the idea that Lilith was somehow involved in 2I? Perhaps that's what the 5th cross means? (and not a "central Adams"?). Gendo mentions the Golgotha object being left behind with the Adams and the spears, but there's no mention of Lilith. Not sure what to make of that; where does Lilith come from? Is it from the same "ancestral race" as the Adams? This "non-human someone" is clearly not Seele, otherwise Gendo would say so.

I think Gendo needed to make the giant spear for some reason, perhaps to activate the Hell's gate? And he needed the black moon because, maybe the spears can only be made out of a special, extraterrestrial/angelic matter (e.g., the Wunder spine).

Gendo used the material from the black moon to make two additional spears to take into the minus space. After he entered the Golgotha Object, there was Eva Imaginary (Black Lilith). It's appearance depends on how you perceive it. If you make an "Additional Impact" here, you can change your fate. Gendo uses the two spears from the black moon on Eva Imaginary/ Black Lilith and it turns into a white lilith / CGI Rei and comes off the cross.

Some have speculated that because the original Lilith died between 2.0 and 3.0, Gendo needed another Lilith to change fate/ see Yui again.

As for everything else regarding origins etc, your guess is as good as mine. However, the fact that Yui made it to the Golgotha Object and there's a vague mention of the FAR or something else, is really interesting.

Pluto wrote:

DantesInferno#920857 wrote:

Gendo used the material from the black moon to make two additional spears to take into the minus space. After he entered the Golgotha Object, there was Eva Imaginary (Black Lilith). It's appearance depends on how you perceive it. If you make an "Additional Impact" here, you can change your fate. Gendo uses the two spears from the black moon on Eva Imaginary/ Black Lilith and it turns into a white lilith / CGI Rei and comes off the cross.

Some have speculated that because the original Lilith died between 2.0 and 3.0, Gendo needed another Lilith to change fate/ see Yui again.

As for everything else regarding origins etc, your guess is as good as mine. However, the fact that Yui made it to the Golgotha Object and there's a vague mention of the FAR or something else, is really interesting.

I think when Gendo had Lilith killed in Q, Yui's soul was pushed up to Imaginary Lilith.

We know that all life on Earth came from Lilith, and we know that Eva Imaginary results from the reunification of all souls right? In that case, can we assume the Eva Imaginary is the reincarnation of Lilith?

To be honest, despite proposing this theory, I'm not really confident about it.

Since Gendo is trying to recreate the conditions from the second impact I think the original Adams plus 4 spears, just like Opfer (sacrifice) units 9-12 plus 2 spears and 2(?) spears of the black moon were sacrificed to achieve the impact, minus unit-13 which seems to be one of the Adams that survived. (and might the represented by the 5th mysterious cross at the epicenter)
If this is the case, then what about Mark.06? Would it be considered as one of surviving Adams? If not, then how Seele intended to make it a God if it's not the same as Unit-13?
Also, i'm not sure if I would consider Adams vessels as cores of the original 4-5 Adams anymore since NERV created Mark.09A.

Raikyu wrote:…and we know that Eva Imaginary results from the reunification of all souls right?

I really missed that part.

Having watched the movie twice, it really felt out of the blue, pretty much “Anno wanted his EoE visual reference sooo badly but ooops! He killed Lilith off between the second and third movies, so time to pull something off his ass at the last minute and for no reason”

Perhaps, once we can watch and rewatch amd dissect the TON of exposition that Gendo et al throw near the end, it might make more sense…

Gendo does mention that the Eva imaginary “looks that way to Shinji”, as in “our brains make sense of negative space any way they can”, i.e. using the symbols they know. But it did end up acting pretty much as the GNR, so Shinji’s perception wasn’t off.

Raikyu wrote:We know that all life on Earth came from Lilith, and we know that Eva Imaginary results from the reunification of all souls right? In that case, can we assume the Eva Imaginary is the reincarnation of Lilith?

To be honest, despite proposing this theory, I'm not really confident about it.

Yeah it's definitely weird/ complicated but I'll try keep it simple. Eva Imingary was already in the minus space. Eva Infinity/ Failures of Infinity has to do with the failed third impact (headless evas) which was the somewhat failed/ somewhat completed reunification of souls. Why are they headless? Because Mark 06 decapitated Lilith. With Eva Imaginary, Gendo initiates "Another Impact" and the Eva Infinities turn into headless Reis. To me, Eva Imaginary is like a meta-reality concept--that is, its form change depending on the perception of the person who sees it.

Giji Shinka wrote:If this is the case, then what about Mark.06? Would it be considered as one of surviving Adams? If not, then how Seele intended to make it a God if it's not the same as Unit-13?
Also, i'm not sure if I would consider Adams vessels as cores of the original 4-5 Adams anymore since NERV created Mark.09A.

If you know some Japanese and can stomach the robo anime girl voice this youtube video goes through all the "clues," mentions, and possibilities for what exactly the Adams are (including the Ultraman Minus space episode reference). However, unfortunately, I don't think this person was able to come to a definitive conclusion.

In regards to the NHG Ships, I think they played the role of the Adams in the ceremony for fourth impact, but I'm skeptical about whether or not they were the "original" adams.

I'm thinking about putting together a topic regarding the Eva Infinities and maybe some other stuff in the future but it will take some time.

DantesInferno wrote:

Raikyu#920880 wrote:Having watched the movie twice, it really felt out of the blue, pretty much “Anno wanted hos EoE reference sooo badly but ooops! He killed Lilith off between the second and third movies, so time to pull something off his ass at the last minute and for no reason”

This is so true. I think you might be right on this one.

The “Eva infinities” that appear in SHIN, the ones with a skull for head, are “actual infinities”, i.e. not failures as seen in 3I; that’s why their head is still attached.

What we now learn is that the head was bare bones (i.e., skull only) all along, never had flesh on it for some reason! This is also visible in the 3I flashback: it’s skulls that rain from above. Before watching SHIN, I assumed they had puled up as full heads originally, and the flesh rot away during the 14 year timeskip…

It’s still a mystery who bore the hole up the shaft. I bet on some angelic entiites halo, much like the Third angel does when escaping from Mari.

Thanks for the insights, Pluto. Can't wait to see your analysis.

Btw the new Giant Naked Rei is born from the fusion of Eva Infinities, after they became headless Reis, right? Do you think that she is the "artificial recreation of Lilith" that Gendo was talking about?

Raikyu wrote:Btw the new Giant Naked Rei is born from the fusion of Eva Infinities, after they became headless Reis, right? Do you think that she is the "artificial recreation of Lilith" that Gendo was talking about?

The GNR is what Eva Imaginary becomes after the spears are used. And yes, I think that it was the artificial recreation of Lilith Gendo was talking about

DantesInferno wrote:What we now learn is that the head was bare bones (i.e., skull only) all along, never had flesh on it for some reason! This is also visible in the 3I flashback: it’s skulls that rain from above. Before watching SHIN, I assumed they had puled up as full heads originally, and the flesh rot away during the 14 year timeskip…

The "Eva Infinities" appear in the Third Impact flashback?

So, were these created before the Third Impact? Or were these created during the Third Impact?

Konja7 wrote:

DantesInferno#920899 wrote:What we now learn is that the head was bare bones (i.e., skull only) all along, never had flesh on it for some reason! This is also visible in the 3I flashback: it’s skulls that rain from above. Before watching SHIN, I assumed they had puled up as full heads originally, and the flesh rot away during the 14 year timeskip…

The "Eva Infinities" appear in the Third Impact flashback?

So, were these created before the Third Impact? Or were these created during the Third Impact?

No, the Eva infinities appear in SHIN, during the final battle at the South Pole. In the A3I Flashback, we see the skulls raining, i.e. the infinities failing!

The way I understand it is, the inifinites in Dogma were in the process of being created (as part of A3I), and turned into "failures" because the imapct was stopped.

DantesInferno wrote:The “Eva infinities” that appear in SHIN, the ones with a skull for head, are “actual infinities”, i.e. not failures as seen in 3I; that’s why their head is still attached.

Are you talking about the mark.07 evas? Their bodies don't look like infinities at all, they don't have the entry plug mechanism on their backs.

Also I still don't understand how it's possible so many infinities were in terminal dogma... why would so many people be in there? Or maybe they spontaneously popped up there during third impact? Also none of them seem to be in Paris.

Jinroh wrote:

DantesInferno#920899 wrote:Also I still don't understand how it's possible so many infinities were in terminal dogma... why would so many people be in there? Or maybe they spontaneously popped up there during third impact? Also none of them seem to be in Paris.

I think the movie mentions that infinities were wandering to certain direction(s) from all over the world and they seem to mostly gather at Neo-Nerv, this why you don't see them in Paris.