BernardoCairo wrote:Well, there is a huge difference between a "fan" and a "fanboy". As a fan, I like the character for who she is. I identify with her on a fundamental level and have fun while watching her ups and downs. It's all about what is narratively interesting. Fanboys, on the other hand, tend to idealize their favorite characters (injecting their own conceptions into these fictional personas). In most cases, Soryu's fanboys don't even like Shikinami (as they think she's tainting the original character's legacy). It's the same with Ayanami fanatics who do not accept Rei Q's existence. Anyway, Tsurumaki is an Asuka fan. However, I'm not sure if he's a fanboy. I mean, we're talking about his job. It's hard to picture him engaging in the antics of "waifu wars" hahaha.

In itself, there isn't a clear difference between fans and "fanboys". Both means that you really like a character.

It's just that people try not to be grouped with toxic fans

Konja7 wrote:In itself, there isn't a clear difference between fans and "fanboys". Both means that you really like a character.

Regarding traditional grammar, you are right. There is not much difference between the terms "fan" and "fanboy".
That said, as time went by, people started using the word "fanboy" to describe extreme/obsessive fans. Is it because they don't want to be grouped with toxic fanatics? Probably. The difference is there, nonetheless (even if it only applies to "urban language"). Words have only the meanings that we ascribe to them.

Axx°N N. wrote: *snip*

I understand the appeal of analysis, but I still think that analyzing a film one has not watched is nothing beyond an interesting thought exercise, especially when done as a way of discussing the film with dozens of others. I still feel that regardless of the intentions you or anyone else of your sort has, there is still a certain wrong that analyses of unconsumed works uttered with certainty tend to lead to and consist of, due to getting near to what I've already said I consider a particular form of anti-intellectualism. But well, agree to disagree, I guess.

FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:

FelipeFritschF#920030 wrote:Potentially. We know he's an Asuka fan so he's there along with Miyamura in being seemingly unsatisfied at her fate.

Well, I think one of the lines in the sand drawn during the Great Inaugural Waifu Wars was that Soryu wasn't a clone like Rei was. Shikinami takes that line drawn in the sand away from the Asuka fan boys. I guess it seems reasonable to be weary of Kensuke's involvement with Asuka as well, but everything we've seen so far tends to paint him as a father/mentor character to Asuka.

The Kensuke/Asuka relationship is exclusively one of a father/mentor, as Asuka's desire to have a parental figure is central to her character, to the point that Anno and Yamashita explicitly told Asuka and Kensuke's VAs about it so they won't make their exchanges flirtatious.
Now, since Asuka comes back as an adult in the real world, you could eventually imagine that their relationship could transform into something romantic, that would certainly be weird, but then again everything about Asuka's life in Rebuild is weird!

Now for the Great Waifu War, personally in Rebuild I never saw it, because (and I might be biased) I always saw Shinji and Rei's interactions in 2.0 as that of a brother and sister: I'm myself a big brother (my sister is six years younger than me), and the way Shinji reacted slightly panicked when something was wrong with Rei as if he screwed up and shouldn't had (like when Rei says that she doesn't eat meat, or when she didn't came to school for several days) ? That's 150% Big Brother energy here!
Hell, Rebuild even goes the extra mile to chance Yui's maiden name to Ayanami (instead of it being a random name Gendo came up with for Rei) while keeping the flashback between Yui and Gendo that if they have a daughter, they'll call her Rei: by naming Rei Ayanami, Gendo literally did the closest thing to add her as a part of his family short of outright adopting her!

ElMariachi wrote:The Kensuke/Asuka relationship is exclusively one of a father/mentor, as Asuka's desire to have a parental figure is central to her character, to the point that Anno and Yamashita explicitly told Asuka and Kensuke's VAs about it so they won't make their exchanges flirtatious.
Now, since Asuka comes back as an adult in the real world, you could eventually imagine that their relationship could transform into something romantic, that would certainly be weird, but then again everything about Asuka's life in Rebuild is weird!

Yeah. I don't think they have any romantic feelings in these 14 years.

It is possible that could change, since Asuka is an adult now, but that's left to interpretation.

ElMariachi wrote:Now for the Great Waifu War, personally in Rebuild I never saw it, because (and I might be biased) I always saw Shinji and Rei's interactions in 2.0 as that of a brother and sister: I'm myself a big brother (my sister is six years younger than me), and the way Shinji reacted slightly panicked when something was wrong with Rei as if he screwed up and shouldn't had (like when Rei says that she doesn't eat meat, or when she didn't came to school for several days) ? That's 150% Big Brother energy here!

Honestly, I always feel a certain level of attraction in 2.0, but it could just be perception.

It is possible they just want to represent a close and strong siblings relationship between them. After all, they always planned Rei to be Yui's clone.

In 3.0+1.0, Shinji tell Asuka that he has romantic feelings for her in 2.0 (that surprise me a lot). It's the only romantic confession in the Instrumentality, so it seems his feelings for Rei (and Kaworu) are platonic.


PS: It seems the siblings relationship also apply to Kaworu and Shinji. In 3.0+1.0, it is mentioned that Gendo, Kaworu and Shinji are similar.

Konja7 wrote:The current box for 3.0+1.0 is ¥7.42 billion. This means that the Domestic (Japanese) Box Office of 3.0+1.0 has already surpassed the Worldwide Box Office of the other Rebuild movies.

Sorry for being off-content, is it possible that 3.0+1.0 may surpass ¥10 billion for the box-office?

Hello guys, long-time lurker here. Decided to finally make an account and my first post. Now that spoilers for shin have come out I can't help but feel like I have more questions than before. In particular, I am baffled by how WILLE treated Shinji in Q and feel that it was not given proper justification or explanation in Shin.

Since it was revealed that Asuka and Mari also have to wear DSS chokers (presumably because they are active EVA pilots and they are a necessary precaution to prevent awakening), why would WILLE place the choker on Shinji if they never intended to let him pilot? Did they think that he would solid snake himself inside Unit 1 when no-one was looking? Were they not confident in their ability to prevent NERV & Gendo from abducting him? If they thought he might have been an angel then why did they let Sakura come near him but have Misato and Ritsuko stay safely behind bulletproof glass? Why didn't they just tell Shinji that his father intends to use him to start another impact? That would have taken not even five minutes. But if they intended to keep him in the dark to not "traumatize" him then why have Ritsuko deliberately antagonize him by telling him they've strapped a bomb to his neck and that it is a symbol of his "punishment"? That doesn't seem a wise thing to say to an emotionally volatile teenage boy who's been in a coma for 14 years.

To quote another member from the fanart thread:

TheFriskyIan wrote:Looks like Asuka does indeed have her own DSS Choker. Ritsuko can shove her cryptic bullshit up her ass, it would have been far easier to tell Shinji every pilot has to wear one instead of being needlessly vague.

Wouldn't it have been easier to tell him that every pilot has to wear one but even then that brings me back to the point of why they even put it on him if they never intended on letting him pilot. I can't help but feel that Misato and Ritsuko were made to act out of character in this scene as it just doesn't seem like something either of them would do (especially with Ritsuko recklessly condemning Shinji with the words "punishment" and "mistrust" when a woman as intelligent as her should know that this would likely push him away). Granted they have been fighting a war for 14 years and we don't really know what they have been through. But then again she might have chosen to say it if she was confident he wouldn't be ABLE to escape but then that circles us back to my second point of why would you even put it on him if you were confident he had nowhere to run? It just seems like they were deliberately trying to push him into Gendo's arms just so they could advance the plot.

Whitetiger739 wrote: Sorry for being off-content, is it possible that 3.0+1.0 may surpass ¥10 billion for the box-office?

I really doubt it will reach that number. The legs of the box office aren't enough for that.

swagbuckking1 wrote:Since it was revealed that Asuka and Mari also have to wear DSS chokers (presumably because they are active EVA pilots and they are a necessary precaution to prevent awakening), why would WILLE place the choker on Shinji if they never intended to let him pilot? Did they think that he would solid snake himself inside Unit 1 when no-one was looking? Were they not confident in their ability to prevent NERV & Gendo from abducting him? If they thought he might have been an angel then why did they let Sakura come near him but have Misato and Ritsuko stay safely behind bulletproof glass? Why didn't they just tell Shinji that his father intends to use him to start another impact? That would have taken not even five minutes. But if they intended to keep him in the dark to not "traumatize" him then why have Ritsuko deliberately antagonize him by telling him they've strapped a bomb to his neck and that it is a symbol of his "punishment"? That doesn't seem a wise thing to say to an emotionally volatile teenage boy who's been in a coma for 14 years.

I don't think they exactly know what Gendo's plans are. They just don't want another Impact.

Honestly, Wille members have a grudge against Shinji. That's the main problem in the way they handle the situation.

The bomb isn't the main problem. Ritsuko could explain the situation, but the hate that Shinji is feeling from Wille members will still make him want to escape from that place.


PS: The lack of explanation is for the audience.

Although Asuka doesn't get to save the world, at least she's only a liability during the transformation sequence. I like that otherwise she's an effective pilot, especially during the 14-year interregnum caused by Baka-Shinji's absence.

Konja7 wrote:Yeah. I don't think they have any romantic feelings in these 14 years.

It is possible that could change, since Asuka is an adult now, but that's left to interpretation.

As for a love interest, I don't see it with Kensuke either, which in a way makes him even more like NGE Kaji . That said, despite some ostracization in the town she protects, adult Asuka would certainly be able to find a suitor post-Eva. Plus as a bonus she gets her (angel-free) eye back.

I don't think it being left open-ended is a problem at all. Some random villager maybe...all good.

Zusuchan wrote:I still think that analyzing a film one has not watched is nothing beyond an interesting thought exercise.

If you were to press me to put it into the most accurate sentence possible, it would be that. I consider anything I've said so far about Shin to be shapeless (and maybe ultimately ill-founded) until proven otherwise.

Konja7 wrote:I don't think they exactly know what Gendo's plans are. They just don't want another Impact.

Honestly, Wille members have a grudge against Shinji. That's the main problem in the way they handle the situation.

The bomb isn't the main problem. Ritsuko could explain the situation, but the hate that Shinji is feeling from Wille members will still make him want to escape from that place.

PS: The lack of explanation is for the audience.

So you're suggesting the reason they placed the choker on Shinji was to appease the WILLE crew in order to prevent potentially a mutiny. This would explain why they brought Shinji to the bridge and activated the choker in front of all the crew. However what we learn from Shin is that the only two members which become hostile and are willing to harm Shinji are Sakura and Midori. Both of whom do so due to losing their fathers in the NTI. If we assume Misato and Ritsuko placed the choker to appease these members (assuming they knew about their fathers), why would they place Shinji in the care of someone (Sakura) who has arguably the biggest reason to kill him? Why didn't Misato have Shinji stay with her or even Asuka once his identity was confirmed? Surely they would have been able to protect him? If they were that afraid of their crew members, would it not have been smart to tell Shinji that he would be staying with Touji and Kensuke at the village ASAP instead of putting him in a cell on the wunder with the choker on his neck? As that way he would be safe from NERV (presumably) and hostile WILLE members and he wouldn't have felt as alienated as to escape with Rei Q.

As for keeping the audience in the dark with the lack of explanations, this only works as a storytelling technique when things are sufficiently explained later in the story. We already know that the choker is meant to prevent awakenings by killing the pilot. What we as the audience do not learn even in Shin is as to why Misato, someone who cared for Shinji, would unnecessarily place the choker on him anyway when she weren't intending on letting him pilot. One could argue that they were just doing it to "punish" him. If this is the case we can only assume that they just wanted Shinji to just shut up and stay in his cell with the choker around his neck to constantly remind him of his mistakes. "Mistakes" that Misato later concedes in Shin that without Shinji, the world would have been doomed anyway. If this is what they had in store for Shinji, then this would have been an extremely rash and hyper-emotional reaction from the two most senior WILLE members. A reaction that is not only out of character for both Misato (because she still cares about him) and Ritsuko (condemning and alienating a living impact trigger is not something a smart, pragmatic woman like her would do), but one that would have been extremely psychologically damaging to Shinji and also give him ample reason to leave. And all for what? Just to appease Sakura and Midori?

In my opinion the best course of action when Shinji woke up would have been this:
- Maintain him in the angel sealing pillars and the choker as Sakura did until they can confirm it is actually him.
- Not have Sakura tell Shinji the thing on his neck "is never coming off". This is just unnecessary and will alienate him.
- Not have him brought to the bridge where the other crew members are so he isn't exposed to them. This as you said before, is one of the main reasons why Shinji was alienated so much. Because the crew were all hatefully glaring at him.
- Have Sakura bring him to the interrogation room as normal.
- Have Misato actually speak to Shinji and say something like this:
"Shinji. This is going to sound confusing but you have been in a coma for 14 years. We do not have much time to explain things to you because we are in a war against your father and are under constant attack. We can't let you pilot Unit 1 because we need it as an engine. Also something really bad happened the last time you piloted Unit 1 but we will explain this to you when we have the time. That thing around your neck is a device to make sure you are not an angel. When we know for certain that it's really you Shinji, we will take it off and you will stay with me where I can keep and eye on you. Afterwards when it is safe, we're going to take you to Touji and Kensuke. They're going to keep you safe OK? I know you are confused but you just need to trust me. Now go with Sakura, I will speak to you later."

That would have taken less the 5 minutes and would have prevented Shinji from running away when Rei Q came knocking.

- Then take Shinji to his room so Sakura can perform the checkup and psychological tests to make sure it's really him.
- Once safe from attack, have Shinji brought to Misato's room where she can remove the choker and calmly and reassuringly explain everything that happened with Rei, NERV, NTI & Third Impact.
- Have Shinji stay with Misato (and only Misato) on the wunder until they get to the village. This way the crew members do not know that the choker is off and they can't start throwing a hissy fit.
- Transfer Shinji to Touji, Hikari and Kensuke's care. Presumably Shinji is safe from being abducted by Gendo here and is therefore not a threat as an impact trigger. Also Shinji trusts Touji and Kensuke and they will be able help him come to terms with what he caused and recover psychologically.

These seem like the logical things to do in a situation like this.

Hmph.

https://www.j-cast.com/2020/12/21401525.html

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— twitter-user (@username) date

People are wondering if Ogata only found out about the ending in mid-December, and if it was tacked on.

It referes to the movie preview reserved for the cast and stuff only.

swagbuckking1 wrote:So you're suggesting the reason they placed the choker on Shinji was to appease the WILLE crew in order to prevent potentially a mutiny. This would explain why they brought Shinji to the bridge and activated the choker in front of all the crew. However what we learn from Shin is that the only two members which become hostile and are willing to harm Shinji are Sakura and Midori. Both of whom do so due to losing their fathers in the NTI. If we assume Misato and Ritsuko placed the choker to appease these members (assuming they knew about their fathers), why would they place Shinji in the care of someone (Sakura) who has arguably the biggest reason to kill him? Why didn't Misato have Shinji stay with her or even Asuka once his identity was confirmed? Surely they would have been able to protect him? If they were that afraid of their crew members, would it not have been smart to tell Shinji that he would be staying with Touji and Kensuke at the village ASAP instead of putting him in a cell on the wunder with the choker on his neck? As that way he would be safe from NERV (presumably) and hostile WILLE members and he wouldn't have felt as alienated as to escape with Rei Q.

No. I'm not suggesting the chocker is to avoid a mutiny (although it likely calms many WILLE members).

I'm suggesting that the lack of explanation for the chocker isn't so important for Shinji. The reason why he wants to escape is because the hostility he feels from WILLE members.

In Shin, Midori and Sakura are the only willing to harm Shinji. However, remember that almost every WILLE member were hostile to Shinji in Q. Ironically, Sakura doesn't show any hostility towards Shinji in Q (that's why they let Shinji with her).


It's pretty possible the plan in Q was to let Shinji with Touji and Kensuke in the Village, but Gendo attacks them before they have time to transport him to that place.

It isn't said Misato doesn't plan to let Shinji pilot again. In fact, they analyze his synchronicity with Eva-1 in Q and they find it is zero (in Shin, we discover Rei II is the cause). Some WILLE members don't want him to pilot, but it's never said Misato wouldn't allow it if it is possible (and necessary).

Konja7 wrote:I'm suggesting that the lack of explanation for the chocker isn't so important for Shinji. The reason why he wants to escape is because the hostility he feels from WILLE members.

You make a good point. However I believe that the greatest reason Shinji desired to leave were directly because of Ritsuko's comments in which Shinji is told he has a lethal device installed on his neck and that it is a symbol of his "punishment". Being told by one of only two familiar faces that they have put a bomb on your neck because they have deemed you as guilty will be extremely overwhelming to say the least especially after being in a coma for 14 years. Ritsuko even states "I don't blame you for panicking", indicating she knew the effect it would have on him but she said it anyway. Remember, Misato and Ritsuko are the only familiar faces that Shinji has seen at this point. Because Shinji knows Ritsuko, what she tells him is far more likely to instill dread in Shinji as opposed to the disapproving glares he recieves from the other WILLE members. Telling him he was being "punished" was completely unnecessary even if they did resent him for NTI as it only exacerbated his desire to leave. This is why I feel Ritsuko words did not suit her character and intelligence and the dialogue did her a disservice. A stoic and clinical scientist such as her is just unlikely to use such language towards Shinji especially when there are greater priorities at stake than letting the 14 year old kid know that he is guilty.

Konja7 wrote:It isn't said Misato doesn't plan to let Shinji pilot again. In fact, they analyze his synchronicity with Eva-1 in Q and they find it is zero (in Shin, we discover Rei II is the cause). Some WILLE members don't want him to pilot, but it's never said Misato wouldn't allow it if it is possible (and necessary).

Once again another good point. We as the viewer do not fully know Misato's intentions on letting Shinji pilot again. However her first comments to Shinji is that he will not be doing anything so it is unlikely he will piloting anytime soon. This does generate another question as if there was the possibility Shinji would be allowed to pilot again, why not just tell him all the pilots are required to wear one? Why BEGIN with telling him he's being punished and that it'll kill him if he loses control of his feelings? If anything that'll make Shinji just refuse to pilot if or when they actually need him to pilot because they had already scared and alienated him with the choker and their reasons for putting it on. Would you be willing be to help the people who have effectively condemned you with such a cruel, unusual and arguably, unnecessary punishment. Remember we have no reason to believe that Shinji wouldn't listen to Misato if she simply told him to not pilot the EVAs; she is still someone that he respects after all. We find out in thrice that Shinji himself offered to put the choker on before he piloted Unit 1 when he understood everything. I just think that Ritsuko's comments did WILLE the most disservice and was the greatest reason why Shinji left. It's a shame because Ritsuko was one of my favourite characters in NGE.

What if the Shikinami series was ALWAYS the Ninth Angel?

Maybe Evangelion 03 originally was inserted with the Original Shikinami soul and that's why it doesn't awake or react before Asuka enters it, it also explains the very suspicious synchronization with Asuka perfectly much like 02 (didn't need to swap cores), the main objective was to seal the Ninth/Shikinami to where it belongs, Asuka, to bring the preparation for the Additional Impact.
Let's also notice that the color of Original Shikinami is Blue, which is the color related to the angels, even more suspiciously the Shiki Series doesn't even appear in the movie before the Code 999 scene, which the 9th Angel manifests itself.

The concept of Asuka talking to her other self which is related to the angel infection not only is present in this movie but it's also present in the never made scene of 2.22 which Asuka talks to her original/Ninth Angel about happiness and the other Asuka says happiness wasn't meant to her and that wasn't real Asuka.

Conclusion: I totally think the Original Shikinami Series is the Ninth Angel and it's totally a concept which never made into 2.0 being brought back in the last movie. Rei much like Asuka is the carrier of the 2th Angel.

swagbuckking1 wrote:Remember, Misato and Ritsuko are the only familiar faces that Shinji has seen at this point. Because Shinji knows Ritsuko, what she tells him is far more likely to instill dread in Shinji as opposed to the disapproving glares he recieves from the other WILLE members. Telling him he was being "punished" was completely unnecessary even if they did resent him for NTI as it only exacerbated his desire to leave. This is why I feel Ritsuko words did not suit her character and intelligence and the dialogue did her a disservice. A stoic and clinical scientist such as her is just unlikely to use such language towards Shinji especially when there are greater priorities at stake than letting the 14 year old kid know that he is guilty.

Honestly, I think Ritsuko really think the bomb is a "punishment" for Shinji. After all, she really wants Shinji to stop in 2.0.

Unlike other Wille members (and even Misato), Ritsuko doesn't seem hostile toward Shinji in 3.0. She is just cold and cynic, so she won't care so much about Shinji's feelings.

In Ritsuko's opinion, if Shinji tries to go with Gendo, Misato should explode his head.

EscapismIsBad wrote:Conclusion: I totally think the Original Shikinami Series is the Ninth Angel and it's totally a concept which never made into 2.0 being brought back in the last movie. Rei much like Asuka is the carrier of the 2th Angel.

I don't think Original Shikinami Series was always the Ninth Angel. After all, the Ninth Angel should exist after the Eight Angel.

However, I think it is pretty likely Gendo always want one of the Shikinami Series to "fuse" with an Angel.

Maybe, it's all subjective after all. Meanwhile, I can't ignore how the Original Shikinami Series is literally the discarted concept of Asuka talking with Bardiel/Another Asuka with Kaworu's voice, everything leads me to believe the Shikinami Series is indeed the 9th, besides that, the angel numbering of Rebuild is just very messy, perhaps the 'Original' Shikinami Series isn't the Original Shiki Asuka per se, but it's the original meaning of Asuka, existence or even fate, which is to be eaten by Evangelion 13 and start Additional Impact. This hypothesis would explain some plot holes too since technically it would be alright for Asuka to pilot 03 since the soul taking care of the EVA is Asuka itself, along with the motive the Ninth Angel chooses to infect her. It seems everything was planned (Evangelion 02 being locked and Asuka being dependent of EVA) to Asuka piloting 03 besides even Asuka willingly entering the EVA to help Shinji.

Konja7 wrote:Honestly, I think Ritsuko really think the bomb is a "punishment" for Shinji.

If the choker really is a punishment, what is Asuka being punished for?