Zusuchan wrote:I doubt that he would have ever gotten near to his EoE actions if he had had something resembling a happier life.

Most likely. That said, in history there is no "what if". Shinji abused Asuka. Did it consume him afterwards? Sure. However, I'm not going to overlook his actions because of it. Do you remember when I mentioned some moments in which Asuka was nice to the people around her and concluded that, underneath all her insecurities and traumas, there is a cool person? Well, I think the same about Shinji. Yet, it's impossible for me to gloss over what he did. In fact, I believe that we should all antagonize it. By the way, I'm not saying this because I care about the moral implications of fictional characters' actions. Instead, it’s because that scene's general reception is a picture of our reality.
We live in a sexist society in which women are expected to be nice and receptive all the time (despite having their own problems to overcome). Otherwise, they are liable to be raped. You would be surprised at sheer amount people I've seen arguing that Asuka deserved to be abused and that Shinji "took it easy" on her. Ikari actively locked Asuka's room and masturbated to her comatose body, as if she was an object. He has completely dehumanized his own friend and many people are willing to ignore it. That's crazy to me! Again, I don't think it's fair to see him as a monster (the guy had a hard life, to say the least). That said, I won't treat him like a toddler either. Now, can he be forgiven? Well, as I said before, that's up to Asuka (she was the victim). As a mere spectator, all I can do is watch the scene and reflect on it. In retrospect, this is an extremely important segment for the movie's themes (as I elaborated here: https://forum.evageeks.org/thread/20593/Can-Shinji-be-forgiven-for-fapping-to-comatose-Asuka/#p909945)
By the way, Zusuchan, don't think I'm talking about you (or anyone here). I'm commenting on a position that I observed in several areas of the fanbase, but not on this particular site.

EvaChero
You wrote a great analysis on Shinji and Asuka's bond! I agree with pretty much everything you said.

Well, I found the figures on the characters' heights that I was looking for, and it turns out they're only 145 cm tall. Holy crap, that's short. An average Japanese 14 year old in real life (165 cm) would be a full head taller than them. Yeah, that should definitely be changed.

Another thing- I'd remove Misato's "lust for revenge on the Angels" or make it make more sense.
For years I completely overlooked it until Reichu brought it to my attention simply because of how unpersuasive it is.
She's vitriolically emotionally involved with these aphasic things that didn't wake up until yesterday why, exactly? Just because they're related to her father's science project? Just because they're her half-siblings whom he loved more than her?
I think you need at least a scene of Misato seeing the Angels at 2I for me to buy it.

Oh, and I'd cut out the forced cattiness between Misato and Ritsuko that shows up pretty often around the action arc. If Ritsuko has a problem with Misato's plan, she should at least be able to suggest an alternative, instad of just going "your plan is dumb and you're crazy".

Lavinius wrote:She's vitriolically emotionally involved with these aphasic things that didn't wake up until yesterday why, exactly? Just because they're related to her father's science project? Just because they're her half-siblings whom he loved more than her?

Adam's an Angel -> Adam kills her dad = Angel(s) killed her dad. Makes sense to me.

Also, doesn't she later confess that she's lying to/distracting herself by thinking she's doing this as revenge against the Angels, and that the real reason she joins NERV is more of a psychological thing about the contradictory feelings she has for her dad?

Lavinius wrote: Oh, and I'd cut out the forced cattiness between Misato and Ritsuko that shows up pretty often around the action arc. If Ritsuko has a problem with Misato's plan, she should at least be able to suggest an alternative, instad of just going "your plan is dumb and you're crazy".

Eh, I like how they're always at each other's throat. It's a fun dynamic, best friends who completely hate each other. Fits the narrative.

baldur wrote:Adam's an Angel -> Adam kills her dad = Angel(s) killed her dad. Makes sense to me.

Also, doesn't she later confess that she's lying to/distracting herself by thinking she's doing this as revenge against the Angels, and that the real reason she joins NERV is more of a psychological thing about the contradictory feelings she has for her dad?

Obviously, but it feels like someone wanting revenge on tornados or tsunamis or something- since that's all Misato seems to think of the Angels as. It's downright odd that it manifests in that way.

She does say something like that, but it's not really clear:
>I hated my father, but fell in love with someone just like him.
>I chose Nerv, intending to make a clean break with the past.
>But even that was an organization that Father used to belong to.
>In the end, I've been fooling myself by taking revenge against the Angels.

Anyway episode 10 and episode 12 had already spent considerable energy belaboring how disruptive Misato's hatred for the Angels is, and it's just not psychologically convincing to me.

Eh, I like how they're always at each other's throat. It's a fun dynamic, best friends who completely hate each other. Fits the narrative.

I agree completely, when it makes sense (the scene in episode 7 with Misato kicking the locker door while Ritsuko is burning the folder is marvelously sexy), but there are a number of times (in episode 12, at least) where Ritsuko is just furious at Misato's perfectly reasonable & common-sense plan and yet doesn't offer an alternative.
It's the probably the sort of thing that you only notice if you've seen the episodes so many times you're actively looking for plot holes.

baldur wrote:
Apologies if I misrepresented your position, I was also just speaking in terms of the larger conversation.

No worries. And I haven't thought you hate Shinji, no.

I completely agree that Shinji is a victim of his circumstances, as most everyone is.

I agree that Shinji is flawed and that he needs to grow as a person (him not acting on his perceptions is actually a problem, after all) or else he could very well become his father. I do also believe that there are personality traits of him that could lead to nasty things once they're properly "stimulated", I just don't think they're that prevalent in him for the majority of NGE-of course, if there would have been more Angels, they could have become that. I guess I'm just more sympathetic to him than Asuka, while you're the opposite. But it doesn't seem like we actually disagree with each other as much as we initially seemed to be.

BernardoCairo wrote:
Most likely. That said, in history there is no "what if". Shinji abused Asuka. Did it consume him afterwards? Sure. However, I'm not going to overlook his actions because of it. Do you remember when I mentioned some moments in which Asuka was nice to the people around her and concluded that, underneath all her insecurities and traumas, there is a cool person? Well, I think the same about Shinji. Yet, it's impossible for me to gloss over what he did. In fact, I believe that we should all antagonize it. By the way, I'm not saying this because I care about the moral implications of fictional characters' actions. Instead, it’s because that scene's general reception is a picture of our reality.

I know you said you're not talking about me or others on EGF in particular, but I do feel compelled to say I'm not advocating for overlooking Shinji's actions-I'm merely pointing out that Asuka was a bad person too and that Shinji's actions are understandable, which is not the same as excusable. Yes, he did a horrible thing, but that doesn't require us to antagonize him, it only requires us to realize how he came to commit such an act and yet still hold him accountable for it, even if it's understandable why he did it.

I don't agree with those who think Shinji did the right thing or anyone who spouts such sexist nonsense, but I don't want my criticisms of Shinji (which do exist even beyond the masturbation) to be bogged down by the way his character has been received by people whose views I vehemently disagree with. Such parts of the fanbase shouldn't probably be paid too much attention to, anyway-they mostly consist of blatantly escapist, self-congratulating people over-fixated on fictional characters used as a substitute for any real human connections.

Lavinius:If "revenge against the Angels" is simply a motive Misato uses to deny the reality of her connection with her father and her continuous hang-ups on him, then doesn't that make sense? IMO, she's genuinely angry at the Angels for having ruined her life and murdered her father, so she uses that as the reason for her joining Nerv, despite knowing deep down that the real reasons are a lot more complicated than that. Also, where do you get the idea that Misato considers the Angels as something like tornados? In ep.3, she pairs Shamshel to "the type women hate the most"-that appears a lot like giving an Angel more "animalistic" qualities than considering it as simply a force of nature.

EvaChero:I'm not sure why you don't consider yourself a "deep thinker"-you wrote a pretty good analysis of Asuka and Shinji. And it's not like we here are "deep thinkers" either-we're not discussing the meaning of life, but a cartoon, after all!

Zusuchan wrote:I don't want my criticisms of Shinji (which do exist even beyond the masturbation) to be bogged down by the way his character has been received by people whose views I vehemently disagree with.

Sure, me neither. It's obvious that the real problem here lies in what he did, not in how people perceived it. I wasn't talking about antagonizing Shinji's entire character, though. It's more about keeping a critical eye on what he has done, while also exposing your thoughts on it when necessary. I think it’s important not only to understand why he did it, but why it’s wrong (while also not treating him like a mere monster). People should be able to understand that this oddly realistic behavior is not "ok". Sometimes, when I think of guys who "romanticize" Shinji's actions, I feel uncomfortable. What would such a person do in real life? I don't know. That's why I feel the need to reinforce how disgusting Ikari's attitudes were.
This whole thing goes way beyond Evangelion. Sorry for derailing this thread a bit. As a matter of fact, I agree with you.

I agree with what you said here, too.

Shinji did it to be worthy of hatred. That's the whole point.

Zusuchan wrote: it's not like we here are "deep thinkers" either-we're not discussing the meaning of life, but a cartoon, after all!

A cartoon that occasionally touches on the meaning of life, to be fair.

baldur wrote:

Zusuchan#919513 wrote: it's not like we here are "deep thinkers" either-we're not discussing the meaning of life, but a cartoon, after all!

A cartoon that occasionally touches on the meaning of life, to be fair.

I like the above - the infinite shades of grey keep it fresh, fleshing out the characters despite the limited run time.
Generally there is no "all bad" or "all good" but those types of characters are still prevalent in most media.
Eva is a fertile garden for thinking/pondering.

Get a (child) psychiater on the writing team.
Try and add Neil gaiman on the writing team.

Give the pilots real mental problems in a show don't tell way. (It would still be difficult to properly diagnose them and actively discouraged in episode 3 have a kid laugh and goof around that is obviously scared with some discussion abouth the illusion of transparency).

Kaworo fights at least 1 angel
Toji fights at least 1 angel

Rei domestic situation needs to be explainend. I suggest long ago Misato was asked to be the caretaker of Rei but she refused,opting to have a career instead. so Rei is send of the a orphanage.
Rei also has some backstory that explains how Seele isn't really worried abouth her.
Rei might have been "born" 3 years afther Shinji she was actualy concieved at roughly the same time and was sort of floating around in unit01/Lilith during that time she had contact with Yui and Yui used this Rei to control the eva/lilith and got absorbed

Story wise I prefer 2 seasons but if it remains 1 season I would
Episode 1 Angel attack; the same however Shinji is not in the middle of the city instead he is in Gendo's appartment. The appartment tells us a thing or 2 abouth Gendo mostly that he probably does not has lived there in it some time. Shinji makes some comments on how he can not remember the appartment. Misato enters and they travel to the GEO front trough a secret pathway. During the fight their is also a black moon in the sky (will later be broken and at the end filled with souls)

Episode 2 familiar ceiling: Shinji wakes up in his old room (remembers the ceiling) no Gendo to be seen. Misato is tasked with keeping an eye on him. His teacher comes over and Gendo pops up trough a conference call, into the meeting it get's decided that Shinji will stay with Misato. (It's left ambigious if Gendo was avoiding Shinji or that he was absent because he had burnend his hands). The fight we see plays out like the original except that Unit 01 beats the angel within it's activation time

Episode 3 The ringing phone, Shinji attends school in a show don't tell way you can suspect the other students are potential eva candidates because of posters for hand to hand combat, knife fighting,fencing,etc) Shinji fights Shamsel together with Rei, she is still injured but provides exposition/angst. When Kensuke and Toji pop up Rei calls them up (with a phone) and gives them acces codes to hide. It's Rei getting into trouble. We don't see how the fight ends with Shamshel yust that suddenly unit 01 is holding Shamshels undamaged core in it's hand. Unit 01 seems to be either panting or considering to eat the S2 core looking at the black moon she does not. The boys have some nightmares abouth being in the entry plug.
The angel looks similar like the original but perhaps a bit more camouflages like a octopus at one point it sort of stares at Toji and both Toji and unit 01 appear in Shamsel's mirror like camouflage

Those are the changes I would make in the first 3 episodes

orcot wrote: Give the pilots real mental problems in a show don't tell way.

Are you implying that the kids don't have real mental problems, that they're not shown in a show don't tell way or both?

Rei domestic situation needs to be explainend.

But it is in the series. Gendo is Rei's caretaker, he had her live in an apartment after some time, that's it. It's said in ep.2 that Misato didn't even come to Tokyo-3 recently.

Those are the changes I would make in the first 3 episodes

Oh, do go on.

Zusuchan#921987 wrote:Are you implying that the kids don't have real mental problems, that they're not shown in a show don't tell way or both?
Rei domestic situation needs to be explainend.

I'm saying the show would improve if theirs an actual licensed child psychiatrist in the writing room.

Zusuchan#921987 wrote: But it is in the series. Gendo is Rei's caretaker, he had her live in an apartment after some time, that's it. It's said in ep.2 that Misato didn't even come to Tokyo-3 recently.

A slight alteration Rei is not Gendo's ward but Fuyutsuki (who in this altered story only arrived in tokyo afther Rei got injured) Fuyutsuki had asked if Misato was interested in the job but she refused wanting a career instead the theme of Misato the slut isn't mentionend here she believes she is a bad mother/caretaker.

Oh, do go on.

Episode 4 Some Sun, afther standing your ground. Shinji has a school camping trip (for the class to get to know each other, Rei does not come along because she is still injured) he informs his dad trough text message but neglects to inform Misato, she thinks he is running away, there are plenty of beautiful landscapes for Shinji to sulk in and the class is getting some love to. Meanwhile Ritsuke is worried of what happenend with Shamsel in the previous episode, nobody really witnissed what exactly happend and how unit 01 removed shamsel's core intact; Shinji has a long talk with Kensuke They mostly discuss Kensuke watching the trains when students leave. They also discuss Toji's sister who also opted to stay out (because he does not feel well). The next day they return to a furious Misato, they do make up. Shinji disades he want's to stay.

Episode 5 Rei, Trough the Heart. We start the episode off with unit 00 going beserk but in stead of recycling the images from episode 14 (Shinji pilots unit 00) we recycle images of episode 23 (Rei's death) it's more like unit 00 is going to give birth (minus the belly) unit 00 repeatidly bangs it upper neck against the wall she brakes trough and LCL or the liquid that submerges the eva's normally start pouring in. Rei is shot out in unit 01 hanger. Gendo still burns his hands whilst extracting Rei,a ATField was detected it is sugested it was unit 01 saving Rei by making sure she landed on a walkway and not the LCL (but in hindsight it could have been Rei aswel even perhaps unit 00, Gendo seems to think it's Unit 01 at the moment). We see a short glimp of the extricting team freeing Rei and someone picking something up and putting in on the brancard with Rei (glasses).
The middle part we are informed that Rei is now better and her true self again. We see Rei fencing (this because Rei being able to dance needs some explenation if you can fence you can dance, also she will be wearing a fencing suit and a mask making her look a bid like lilith she also has a body cord making her look if not like a chubby eva then a padded one at least. She and Shinji are brought to NERV. Instead of showing Rei's poverty (in the anime she is basicly having health problems whilst going to school and working for NERV), we also swith the order, Rei first hits Shinji for not having Faith in Gendo then she takes a shower. Shinji recieves his and her planning he want's to drop it with Rei clothes but notices the glasses but then Rei pops out and a familiar scene happens but she calmy asks him to read her planning whilst she get's dressed. Rei get's a succesul activation test, ramiel shows up and Shinji get's lightly cooked.
Rei in this version is not a clone of Yui but is shaped like Yui, her real lineage is never revealed but hinted that it is sort of funny and that Rei might like have DNA of a Ambidextrous swordsman.

Episode 6 Showdown in Tokyo 2, happens as is however when Rei is reading the plan to Shinji she wonders why he isn't getting dressed. Also the positron rifle is being offered by the people who made jet alone. We see a outside NERV service aid them (one of the reasons the positron rifle can't be used all the time (not owned by NERV) Fuyutsuki makes a comment that by enlisting aid they will shurely play their hand. Gendo claims he has it under control and we briefly see unit 02 and unit 05 unloading Shamsel's core(S²), he mentions 2 for 1 is a good deal (it will be unit 02 and the spear of longinus). The rest happens like the original (unit 00 definitely does not rip off the roof of a factory). We might see a brief cameo of Mana

Those are the changes I would make in episode 4-6

Episode 7 change the order between 7-8 Asuka Arrives in Japan Shinji and Misato arrive on the carrier their mission is to officialy meet the pilot of unit 02 and safeguard the spear of longinus, However Asuka goes to Japan by plane and we meet the backup pilot Kaworu together with the core misconfigured for kaworu they can pilot the eva but can not use it's ATfield Gagiel attacks and they kill it with the spear that is now lost in the ocean.

Episode 8 Team jet activation and press meeting Rei seems really stressed out and get's cue cards. She get's a small fashion show with several outfits but leaves with something fit. However Asuka arrives unexpectedly and Rei needs to keep her busy, She meets up with Kensuke, Toji and Hikari who wanted to see the cool robot (jet alone). The spear get's lost however and suddenly they need the jet team to retrieve it.
it's funny and will spend the most time on Kensuke Toj and Hikari hopefully having a good time. Ritsuke sends the 3 bridge bunnies together with MAGI to undo her handywork.
Rei in this version is not a clone of Yui but is shaped like Yui, her real lineage is never revealed but hinted that it is sort of funny and that Rei might have DNA that would make her like Curry or have something to do with it.

Episode 9 Mind matching moment sort of like the original except Rei is training her wrist (she is still recovering) She is making a daruma doll. Later at the party it's implied she made Penpen some lederhosen (altough room is open that it was Hikari or something Asuka had with her). Rei can sort of dance but their really fencing moves. Mana joins the school for now and tries to make friends (She feels like a fraud jet alone does not need a child pilot but she was chosen to synergize well with the other pilots).

That's what I would change abouth episode 6-9

orcot wrote: the class is getting some love to

Could you elaborate?

we recycle images of episode 23 (Rei's death) it's more like unit 00 is going to give birth (minus the belly)

How lovely. Would those be the exact images we see in ep.23 or a roughly similar set of images?
Also, where is Kaworu in episodes 8 and 9? Is he safe? Is he alright?

Rei might have DNA that would make her like Curry

Please tell me you mean this kind of curry.

Zusuchan#922053 wrote:Could you elaborate?

Some of the school children get a bid of story.
Toji and Rei tell a story because of their absense. (Rei is injured Toji has some PTSD from Shamsel and promist his sister that he would visit.
Some still images from the class some students walk apart whilst others walk in group.
Some without any text some couple sneaks out to make out.
Some open questions from a student that want's to start a conversation. Did you dad try to protect you by sending you away and he is luky he still has a dad.
Some real conversations with Kensuke abouth trains and him watching people who are leaving to escape the attacks.

How lovely. Would those be the exact images we see in ep.23 or a roughly similar set of images?
Also, where is Kaworu in episodes 8 and 9? Is he safe? Is he alright?

As similar as Unit 00 going beserk with Shinji as compared to Rei. Also in stead of the giant hand sticking out in unit 01 pool it's a unit 00 upper back and entry plug hole. Meanwhile unit 00 in it's frozen form looks absolute sad.

Kaworu and Shinji fight Gaghiel on top the aircraft carriers with the lance of longinus. They can not maintain a ATfield because the core is not configured. Kaworu gives some exposition that their's a soul inside looking for Asuka, Shinji can somewhat feel that unit 02 is looking for something but she can't find it. They beat the angel but loose the spear near some thermal vents on the ocean floor. Unit 02 get's towed to Japan Kaworu is extracted with a helicopter but Shinji remains behind in unit 02 in Asuka's plugsuit (crossdressing because he needed a plug suit and kaworu apparently only his own and Asuka's)

Please tell me you mean this kind of curry.

Yeah the food kind. It would be Fuyutsuki that makes the comment. Rei would not be a clone of Yui but be molded to look like her it is left open who her genetic parents are. (Either Fuyutsuki knew she would take the vegetarian option or it's a reference to marie curie she won 2 nobel prizes and was eventualy killed by her discoveries, other references would be lovelace, but it could either be the poet (byron) or (ada) the first programmer who o.a. tried to build wings from cloth and feathers when she was a child. Theirs some other references. (their was also a american ship named the Lovelace that fought in the pacific)

- Rei story would be that Yui decided to make her as a interface from unit 01. Yui would interact with Rei who would interact with lilith except she is also lilith in a trinity between the white giant unit 01 and Rei. (theirs no telling if Shinji was simply the control in this experiment).
During this time (afther second impact heirs a black moon in the sky)
-Proto Rei develops like a normal child despite the lack of a body it is somehow both liltih and a 4 year old human child that Yui can safely interact with.
-Yui's activation experiment goes as plannend and she makes Rei merge her with Lilith (unit 011 still attached) on Yui's order Fuyutsuki extracts Rei when she is 5 years old several months afther Yui dissapeared (Rei is no genetic offspring but Yui molded Rei to look like her). Seele agrees seeing Rei as a genetic experiment to create a pilot.
- Shinji is still living with Gendo but Gendo has little time and does not like Rei he is however convinced to take care of her. Shinji and Rei live together for a short period of time (Shinji does not remember)
- Naoko strangles Rei, Gendo sends Shinji away Fuyutsuki get's Rei reabsorbed into unit 01/lilith Rei had been death for over a hour but was absorbed into a seed of life. Rei's lifesigns are in trinity Gendo believing they found Yui agrees with re-extracting Rei. The stereo however is a 14 year Rei who spends 3 days with the 5 year old Rei this to arrange a "conditional surrender" of Leliel and his 2Dimensional S² core to unit 01 (in a 2 season script it's suggested leliel is actualy a third seed of light that came over the moment adam's spear was removed in that scenario it hold's a emergency spear but that would be to complicated it would allow for a undue everything button). The Rei agrees to forfeit her memories, name and heart and stike a deal with Leliel it's unclear when exactly this deal is made (when Rei is 5 or 14) it affirms people can relinquish their identity during third impact or that hiding in unit 01 as a ark is definitly a option.
- Rei get's re-extracted and has forgotten Lilith She eventualy goes to a orphanage with Gendo not really liking her. He still allows her to help develop the eva because he has little other options.
- During Rei's activation test unit 00 goes beserk her entry plug is ejected into unit 01 pool and a ATfield makes sure Rei end up on a walkway and not drowning in the pool. It's unclear if this was unit 00, Unit 01 or Rei, Gendo believes it's Yui:unit 01 and runs to aid Rei
- Shinji returns whilst Gendo tries to make contact with Rei.
And that where Rei's story is chronological at this time altough we havent sen the 5 year old Rei.

Episode 10 Matareal the spider angel episode get's bumped up, Mana goes to school with the 3 pilot's and seem to want to get NERV secrets. The poweroutage happens. The first dilema is whether to leave the scared students alone and focus on getting to the eva's or helping them get to safety. Asuka
favours first helping the students. Rei reveals a flywheel battery that has enough energy to open the bunker doors. Rei warns theirs not enough energy to run it continuously and Toji stays behind to reactivate the power before the class can suffocate. Rei brings Mana to a underground train cart big enough to house a eva. Kensuke claims he know how to operate the traincart and he leaves with Mana to jet's hanger space (Rei doesn't like it) They travel toward Gendo's house and take the same entry way Shinji took in the first episode. Asuka goes exploring the dusty house and finds their's a third bedroom in the house and someone had recently enters it becausre theirs no dust on the know. It's a young girls bedroom.
They arrive on time and Mana allowed Kensuke inside jet's control unit most of it's workings are automated Jet's power allows the Eva's to function longer then untethered but the rest plays out like the original.

Episode 11 Magma diver is a mission to retrieve the spear on the ocean floor it is near thermal vents, Jet has been walking on the ocean floor for near a month it has parts of the second movie with the water purification station on the surface. Toji is informed that he will be the 4th pilot and gets invited. Asuka decends to retrieve the spear but get's attacked by the next angel, Shinji helps Asuka but jet get's damaged. They tell Shinji Mana will not longer go to the school, it's made unclear if Mana is traumatized or has drownend.

Episode 12 Unit 04 get's "destroyed" sinks in the dirac sea. Asuka is opset abouth her friend and college dieing. Shinji believes it is kaworu but it is not. Their is some sort of rememberance plannend for the fallen pilot. Shinji and Toji are at NERV finishing paperwork for unit 03 and Toji's sister. They stop on their way to the orphange to find a sloppy Rei (who has cut flowers). Shinji cleans a bid and Ritsuko takes Rei with her, showing a bizar intrest. Shinji leaves toji at school and he is being afraid to pilot the eva. Hikari put's him at ease and she and Asuka are texting each other and it looks like they are having fun. Shinji recieves a phone call of Kaworu stating that he is still okay but can't tell where he is. Shinji is visible relieve and Asuka get's some form of nervous breakdown. The rest of the trip is in silence with Shinji wondering if Mana is okay and that he should text her and that she might turn up okay like Kaworu did but he can't even finish that sentence in his mind.
Asuka composes herself and we have a memorial, aftherwards Ritsuko invites Gendo, Shinji and a cleaned up Rei to visit a Cenotaph for Yui.
Gendo makes a speech.
That evening Shinji discusses the event with Misato who is preparing to leave for unit 03 activation test. Cussing that it got hit with lightning on the way over but should still be okay. Shinji goes over to Asuka to ask if she is okay and the Shinji Asuka kiss scene happens

that's what I change abouth episode 9-12 almost back on track with enough time to give Toji a mission of his own

So Mana and Kensuke might have either drowned or starved to death, eh and Rei is curry? How exciting. I must say this is all quite bemusing.

Would you perhaps like a thread entirely your own for this fanfic version of Eva?

Zusuchan wrote:So Mana and Kensuke might have either drowned or starved to death, eh and Rei is curry? How exciting. I must say this is all quite bemusing.

Would you perhaps like a thread entirely your own for this fanfic version of Eva?

Kensuke would be fine. He would get the change to drive a real big train tough the type that moved Misato's car it's big enough to house jet (the robot). Kensuke recognizes the train model and knows they can run on diesel in emergencies. This way the eva's have a more believable power source against Matarael.
Mana well she is inside jet when it get's speared in the head with the spear of Longinus, jet never really needed a pilot and home control send jet back to tokyo 2 "carrying" the spear (in it's head). They tell NERV the radio was broken so Mana could not respond. But she is either crushed drowned or has left to live her life out on a farm.
On Rei well she's definitly not genetically Yui (that causes to much shipping problems) and she remains a vegetarian. Also curry and sloppiness are a recipy for disaster.

I think it belongs here but I will try to keep it short if that is okay

Episode 13
is basicly episode 12 but Gendo does not go to antartica to get the spear (it is walking back to Japan at the moment) and we get to see Eva 03 activation test all is fine. The second half is the battle of Sahaquiel but this time Toji get's to join. It pans out the same altough the changes of succes are significantly higher then the original and Toji makes a comment about writing his will. Gendo takes Rei aside to discuss the dangerous mission and he is fishing for details abouth unit 01 he also bluntly says he wants her to keep unit 01 alive at all costs. Rei convinces Gendo to allow a dinner. Gendo agrees and announces a dinner party later that week. Misato promises to send the kids home but they all get hungry and go eat at a cart.

Episode 14 (basicly filler)
We some of the development of the dummy plug altough Rei is inside unit 01 and not in a tube (we see a 5 year old Rei sitting somwhere like a zoo someone is very enthusiastically explaining Ritsuko's dialogues for the leliel episode, someone next to her wants to ask a question and we get to hear he has to wait and he is called mister Horaki). Gendo wakes Rei up inside unit 01 and tells her she can go home.
Gendo and Ritsuko give some further exposition on the dummy plug system. Gendo is sort of concerned with the dinner he promised. Ritsuko asks if she needs to join to take some of the heat. Gendo asks her not to and be his failsafe to back him out of he get's into trouble.
We get some Misato and Kaji scenes.

Asuka spends time playing video games at Hikari some stuff abouth anxiety, pressure moms etc (Asuka seems to be unhappy)
Shinji visits Rei when she is still half asleep. it plays out like the manga Rei burns her hands and they discuss what Shinji could tell to his dad.


Episode 15. (first weird episode leliel and unit 01 get's it's S2 engine)
Jet alone returns with the spear, This pleases Seele they joke abouth Gendo's dinner plans and how Asuka's (step)mom is on her way. Someone joke's he is hurt he got not invited and he is sponserings his Yui's pet project it's left open if he means the eva's or Rei and that he is Yui's father.
unforthunatly Leliel is suddenly on the move a coincidence yes but it's the first time both adam, lilith and the spear are present in central dogma.
the episode follows the plot from episode 16 (The sickness unto death, and then) with the exception that Toji is also there. When unit 01 get's stuck inside leliels shadow however Shinji ejects and Toji catches him out of the air. If Shinji will crush Toji during the bardiel episode then Toji holds him in his hand(but we allready see that with kaworu later) so more interestingly Toji keeps Shinji's entry plug in his mouth whilst he climbs a skyscraper in stead of Asuka.
Gendo is really pissed that unit 01 got lost.
With Shinji not in the eva we have 3 quarters of the episode free.
We see a 5 year old Rei waving to Yui she is sitting underneath a tree with someone, he tells her that her clone is seeking her attention, Yui responds that she is not her clone. She asks Rei to come over and tells her that she has some privacy and want's to contact Shinji. The other person not identified as leliel tell young Rei that it is good to see a familiar face no telling if he means lilith or making a remark on why Yui molded Rei to look like her.

The episode get's weirder Shinji and Rei get inside unit 00 apparently the first atempts where to make unit 00 a cross between adam and lilith those kept failing so they made it out of adam in stead that said they have a empty core laying around. All this explenation might be fake however. In the end Shinji get's to talk with his mum, it isn't made clear, but Rei might have made a deal both with leliel and Yui. Things are displayed to weird to see that leliel gives his S2 core to unit 01. The angel get's defeated by Toji throwing the lance trough leliel this disrupts it's ATField and Unit 01 pops out with (a) spear. It's beserk but "runs out of power" before it can do anything. (the Longinus spear is in orbit this is a other spear). Most of Shinji's inner self dialogue is the previous episode (with Rei getting burned)

I love this show sm, but there are a few things I'd do differently:

-More episodes devoted to the side characters, especially Yui, Gendo, and Fuyutsuki! I think an episode or two centered around Yui and her relationship with her family would be great for explaining her thought process, ie scenes where she deliberates her plan. It would've also made Gendo a bit less hateable, being able to see what exactly he went through. The series could be longer anyway, so one of these episodes in the second half (which would hopefully have an actual Yui death scene) would've done the story justice. Could've even prevented some of the Yui "evil bitch" discourse lol. Also more Shinji sad backstory

-I don't think I'd get rid of Rei 2's death, it was a pretty essential part of the emotional curb stomp that is Eva, but I really wish there was some closure with her. It's admittedly pretty unrealistic given the plot, but I wish that before her death, she could've figured out her emotions to an extent and made a friend or two. I just want her to be happy ggrfgrgrgghegrr

-Flesh out Rei's discomfort with being seen as "motherly"- this is honestly a really interesting idea (idk if it's canon or not) but partially due to the whole "woman who never bleeds" monologue, it's likely that Rei is infertile (probably because she's a clone) and insecure about it. When Shinji tells her she seems motherly, she gets visibly uncomfortable- somehow, she knows that she's been modeled after a mother figure, yet she can never fill that role.

-In addition to that, I would definitely add at least a few scenes depicting Rei and Gendo's relationship before the story starts. Gendo has pretty much been grooming her, and as sad as it is, I think it would give Rei some much-needed development. Elaboration on the idea that Gendo sees Rei as an inadequate substitute for Yui would be really interesting

-I think I saw someone reply about this already but more strobe scenes ! Just think they look cool lmao. I think Misato could definitely use a few, maybe during flashbacks to when she was mute

-More of Toji, Kensuke, and Hikari- I think they all have traits that could be developed into really memorable scenes; Toji tries to be understanding of Shinji despite being nearly killed by him, Kensuke struggles with his desire to pilot an Eva after what happened to Toji, and Hikari, knowing that she's Asuka's only real friend, is forced to bear witness to Asuka's spiraling mental state.

-Episode 4 does not need to be a whole episode!! There are a few really good moments but something about this episode is just unbearably boring for me. Compress it and add some Rei screen time in the remaining run-time- early-on in the show could be a really good opportunity to give her some more background

-This wouldn't fit anywhere into the original series but please. Just a few canon slice-of-life episodes IM BEGGING

-Fix Maya and Ritsuko's relationship plot!! I'm not saying it needs to be a major subplot, but those two should be together and their ending makes no sense. I appreciate the homoeroticism of their final scene in EOE but could they at least have some background before jumping straight to that?? They hardly had any dialogue during the show smh

-Honestly, get rid of the hospital scene. I know plenty of people have a weird attachment to it since it's such a memorable part of the movie, but would anyone miss it if it weren't there in the first place? Would anyone really say "damn that was a sickass movie but I really wish the kid had cranked the hog to a comatose girl"? It puts a real stain on the series and there were surely better ways to show Shinji's downward spiral.

-Also scrap the Misato kiss scene from EOE, again, there were better ways to show her issues. I know she's not a pedo, but that scene kinda messed up her character for me. Just a lewd comment or something of the sort would've served the same purpose :-(

-Make it more evident that the fanservice is there for a reason other than just fanservice. I like that the show uses service to show Misato and Asuka's trauma-induced hypersexuality and Shinji's objectification of women, but it's so constant that people have taken it as a sign to sexualize the literal fourteen-year-olds.
If you call Asuka/Rei/any of the kids your waifu you're gross I don't make the rules

caser713 wrote:-I don't think I'd get rid of Rei 2's death, it was a pretty essential part of the emotional curb stomp that is Eva, but I really wish there was some closure with her. It's admittedly pretty unrealistic given the plot, but I wish that before her death, she could've figured out her emotions to an extent and made a friend or two. I just want her to be happy ggrfgrgrgghegrr

I mean, I do think Rei 2 made friends with Shinji at least. And I also don't really consider her to be a seperate character from Rei 3. That being said, I don't think Rei 3 gets a very happy ending either tbf

caser713 wrote:-Flesh out Rei's discomfort with being seen as "motherly"- this is honestly a really interesting idea (idk if it's canon or not) but partially due to the whole "woman who never bleeds" monologue, it's likely that Rei is infertile (probably because she's a clone) and insecure about it. When Shinji tells her she seems motherly, she gets visibly uncomfortable- somehow, she knows that she's been modeled after a mother figure, yet she can never fill that role.

Interesting thoughts here, but ultimately I think her discomfort with being "motherly" is just because it alludes to her identity as a Yui clone.

caser713 wrote:-In addition to that, I would definitely add at least a few scenes depicting Rei and Gendo's relationship before the story starts. Gendo has pretty much been grooming her, and as sad as it is, I think it would give Rei some much-needed development. Elaboration on the idea that Gendo sees Rei as an inadequate substitute for Yui would be really interesting

More elaboration on this aspect would be nice, but I also think that giving only sparse glimpses into their relationship works as an approach.

caser713 wrote:-Episode 4 does not need to be a whole episode!! There are a few really good moments but something about this episode is just unbearably boring for me. Compress it and add some Rei screen time in the remaining run-time- early-on in the show could be a really good opportunity to give her some more background

Episode 4 being one of the best episodes in the series is a hill that I will die on.

caser713 wrote:-Fix Maya and Ritsuko's relationship plot!! I'm not saying it needs to be a major subplot, but those two should be together and their ending makes no sense. I appreciate the homoeroticism of their final scene in EOE but could they at least have some background before jumping straight to that?? They hardly had any dialogue during the show smh

Eh, I think they had nice and understated chemistry. I also think it's mostly just a case of an unrequited crush that Maya has, similar to Hyuga and Misato. Not that I'd mind canon ritsumaya lol (crossing my fingers for 3.0+1.0)

caser713 wrote:-Honestly, get rid of the hospital scene. I know plenty of people have a weird attachment to it since it's such a memorable part of the movie, but would anyone miss it if it weren't there in the first place? Would anyone really say "damn that was a sickass movie but I really wish the kid had cranked the hog to a comatose girl"? It puts a real stain on the series and there were surely better ways to show Shinji's downward spiral.

Nah, that scene is absolutely vital on top of being one of the most iconic and memorable scenes in the series. I'm pretty sure most people who watched the film would agree that its inclusion is important. It's obviously disturbing, but that doesn't mean it's bad or unimportant. I really don't see how it puts a stain on the series (well, aside from the unfortunate phrasing).

caser713 wrote:-Also scrap the Misato kiss scene from EOE, again, there were better ways to show her issues. I know she's not a pedo, but that scene kinda messed up her character for me. Just a lewd comment or something of the sort would've served the same purpose :-(

Same reasoning as above. Disturbing =/= bad. Fictional characters, even ones you like, don't have to be totally agreeable paragons of virtue, especially in a series like Eva which is explicitly about how messed up its characters are. That Misato would kiss Shinji, or that Shinji would masturbate to Asuka, these are pretty important details. I don't see why they should be cut out just because they're upsetting. End of Evangelion is uncompromising from start to finish and forces us to confront things like these about the characters. It's not like they come out of nowhere either, set up for both scenes can be found throughout the series.