For reference, all these characters are 17 years old (mid/late high-school)

In all fairness, I didn't mention Shinji looking too young. What I meant by the boys being below average is that usually teenagers here tend to have a lot, or at least significantly much more bodily growth as in their length, muscle development, vocal depth, structural change, body hair etc etc than that of Shinji or Kaworu's by their age. That doesn't mean they look like pre-teenagers or something. At most, they can be called late bloomers. Now that I think of it, Toji almost fits in as an animated equivalent of average Asian teenager boy, more precisely the eastern part of Asia when it comes down to physical growth. I can't really speak for the mid or western parts.

As for Archer, I can't really do much besides suggesting you to visit eastern Asia and see for yourself. Though to be honest, I was quite impressed and bewildered at the same time watching Evangelion for the first time seeing proper female physique in an anime, which I must say is really rare, considering, again, Asian teenagers' physique.

Mr. Tines wrote:For reference, all these characters are 17 years old (mid/late high-school)

Some of these kids don’t even look 17!

In some of the anime I’ve watched, some 17 year olds have more mature that they can easily be mistaken for adults. Granted, they are just one year away from adulthood.

https://images.app.goo.gl/rKDM6tvvKFsKyMbV9
https://images.app.goo.gl/MPZjxLLzPRgq85QW9
https://images.app.goo.gl/ff5yCPGtaoEDjA7NA
https://images.app.goo.gl/ka6fx5oGfaTkt1HHA

The characters in the link I posted are around 17 years old. Sorry I couldn’t get the images to appear on this page, I don’t know how to properly get them inserted. All I could do is post a link.

So yeah, when I hear 17, I often think they would be this mature looking. But I guess it usually depends from one individual to another.

Lol, anime age is actually somewhat comparable to ages in live-action Western shows/movies where supposed high schoolers are unconvincingly portrayed by obvious adult actors. In no universe is Jotaro a passable 17 year old :P

I haven't read any of the spinoffs for that exact reason but I can't say I found anything bothersome in the anime. Most sexualized scenes usually were from the
perspective of Shinji (ex: when he stares at Asuka's chest, tries to kiss her, etc.) Which in this case is totally understandable considering his age/sexual orientation and the fact that this show has Freudian themes all over it. Of course a show that explores Freudian psychology will have a strong emphasis on sexuality and psychosexual development. And yes, Freud is a very debatable figure in modern psychology. If we're going to discuss Eva we have to look at the core ideas it was built on, and if we disagree with those theories/ideas then we obviously going to find issues with pieces of media that were inspired by them.
Misato and Ritsuko both had some fanservice moments, but hey, western film does that a lot too. In Misato's case, however, her sexuality is really tied to her character. The show tells us that this is how she chooses to present her self, and that she uses physical intimacy as a coping mechanism. She chooses to dress up sexy, and she clearly cares about physical appearance (ex: recall the episode when Misato showed up at Shinji's school)
As to Shinji's bothersome scene in EoE I see it as something a kid with mental illness would do. Children who have attachment issues, depression, PTSD can do fucked up things, yeah. And don't get me started on the issues that can arise from early childhood abuse. It's heartbreaking and uncomfortable to watch, but it's real.
I watched the show 8 years ago, and I was really worried about rewatching it halfway through my psychology degree. I was worried I'll be bothered by some things that I didn't catch up on when I was a teen. But I personally didn't see anything problematic in the show. The fanservice in the show always seemed to have purpose - to tell us something about the characters. Even the scene with Shinji falling over with Ayanami may seem like fanservice at first, but it actually tells us more about Rei then we realize. Contrast her reaction to Asuka and how they both respond to shame or embarrassment. Rei didn't feel those things, which alienated her from the rest of the kids.
Maybe there are some problematic examples that I might have not noticed or forgot, if that's the case please let me know. I really had the radar on while rewatching Eva and I did not see anything that disturbing. Yet again, I saw much worse things. We got through 8 seasons of Game of Thrones after all.

I am bothered by it, but I've been aroused by it too.

Like I don't know how to describe it, I've been masturbating to the 2d stuff for a long time and I just never stopped, like it was my first encounter with pornographic stuff. I discovered the stuff very early in my life, like 10 or 11 and just couldn't look away.

I may be addicted to porn and it concerns me, I try to stop but i get aroused by any little thing, I immediately have to look for rule34 type thing.

If you think you might have a serious porn addiction issue, you should probably seek some help.

Zusuchan wrote:If you think you might have a serious porn addiction issue, you should probably seek some help.

Oh I have been brother, the trauma therapy is really helpful, plus the girlfriend helps.

That's good for you! I hope you'll get even better!

Thanks brother I appreciate it

Continued from the discussion about Shinji jacking off to Asuka, because one of the mods felt it would be more appropriate here:

ChaddyManPrime wrote:Maybe it's possible to make showing breasts not hypersexual? I mean I'm just spit balling but when I see a woman breast feeding her child I don't think about breasts.

Rei shows her breasts but it's not portrayed as to be sexually arousing. Asuka does it to fuck with Shinji, which I could understand. And then Misato dresses like she does to maybe get attention or just wants to be comfortable,

I think I would buy that argument more if the camera didn’t focus so much on the boobs. But in the scene of Asuka in a bikini, the scene specifically shows a close-up of her breasts. And in the scene of Misato in her apartment, the camera specifically focuses on her boobs and butt, with no logical or thematic reason to do so: Shinji was looking at her face in that scene. It’s a classic example of the male gaze, and was clearly intended to sexualize.

And Ritsuko went swimming so a bathing suit was necessary, though she could have worn scuba gear.

And again, I would buy that argument more if the camera just showed her normally. But instead, it showed a close-up of her butt as she sat down, and then panned down her back as she unzipped the wetsuit, almost telling the audience “Hey, look at that babe!” They wouldn’t have shown a man like that in a similar situation. Once again, clearly male gaze, and clearly intended to sexualize.

Sorry if this counts as a double post, but I feel like a significant amount of time has passed since my previous post here, so I think it's okay.

To try and illustrate my point in the previous post further, here's some more fanservice / male gaze moments from NGE:

And a few I mentioned already, because some people might want context:

I personally think it's hard to deny that Eva has several moments of sexualized female characters, and Anno is definitely not anti-fanservice. Because of that, I feel like the "critiquing fanservice" interpretation of certain moments in the show kind of falls flat.

It's like people never listened to what Misato said every next time preview --

Compared with earlier kid's TV fare like, say, Maicching Machiko-sensei, NGE is quite tame, and often subverts the usual fan-service cliches, like in episode 5 (hint: what normally happens in anime when a boy walks in on a girl in a state of undress?)

Mr. Tines wrote:Compared with earlier kid's TV fare like, say, Maicching Machiko-sensei, NGE is quite tame, and often subverts the usual fan-service cliches, like in episode 5 (hint: what normally happens in anime when a boy walks in on a girl in a state of undress?)

Yeah, I have found it weird that kids' shows in Japan are often more sexual than shows for older audiences. I mean, the original Dragon Ball was basically a kids' show with boob groping and penis jokes. Definitely wouldn't be considered a kids' show in America.

But still, NGE is definitely a show with plenty of fanservice, and denying that and making it seem like Anno hates sexualization in anime doesn't really make sense in my opinion. Anno's not anti-otaku, he's pretty much the original otaku.

BusterMachine4 wrote:
But still, NGE is definitely a show with plenty of fanservice, and denying that and making it seem like Anno hates sexualization in anime doesn't really make sense in my opinion. Anno's not anti-otaku, he's pretty much the original otaku.

There’s definitely this weird impression in the English-speaking anime fandom that Anno is some sort of Miyazaki Jr who openly states his disdain for anime and anime fans which I’m pretty sure is derived from poorly translated interview snippets being taken out of context.

If anyone thinks Anno hates fanservice, they should see Gunbuster. Nothing in Eva comes close to Gunbuster

LazyPOS wrote:If anyone thinks Anno hates fanservice, they should see Gunbuster. Nothing in Eva comes close to Gunbuster

Yep, already pointed that out in another thread. Gunbuster is probably the most fanservicey anime I've ever seem. So fanservicey that it has to get a mature content rating, even though there's nothing offensive in the entire rest of the show.

LazyPOS wrote:If anyone thinks Anno hates fanservice, they should see Gunbuster. Nothing in Eva comes close to Gunbuster

Oh, I remember seeing that. And yeah, it does have more fan service than EVA.

You'd be hard-pressed to call Gunbuster "the most fanservice-y" even back when it originally aired, but it is certainly more racy than Eva, that much is true

Gunbuster has slightly more overt nipplage and shows a bit more skin, I guess? But we do have the boob grab in episode 5, and we get plenty of naked Rei throughout the series. Asuka gets some skin as well. Gunbuster also has the benefit of being an OVA with far fewer restrictions for what can go on TV. (We get a little taste of what unrestrained Eva would be like with the director's cut episodes and EoE.)

But I'm not particularly bothered by the sexualization, so.