Will gendo redeem himself?

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Will gendo redeem himself?

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Postby Thesufferingpumpkin » Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:05 pm

Despite him soulless as ever in 3.0

In 2.0 he has a moment where he sees yui in Reis place telling him to take care of Shinji and agrees to have a meal with him.

Obviously it went tits up.

What are the likelihood’s of a redemption for gendo in shin eva?

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Postby FXArmaros98 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:21 am

Thesufferingpumpkin I think that the only scenario in which Gendo can decide to remedy his actions is in the event that Fuyutsuki betrays him (as Reichu hypothesized both on this forum and in the blog that belongs to him), or Evangelion 13 has developed a personality of its own. by regaining, the memories of when he was an Adams thanks to the Dummy Systetm of the SEELE and his awakening state in 3.0 and therefore if the spears are removed he could escape the control of Gendo. Another hypothesis is that even what is left of Lilith in some could become the main villians or maybe my favorite theory will happen: Kaworu's soul is trapped inside Evangelion 13, he will be able to rebel against Gendo and will want to face Shinji for be in control of both spears (we don't quite know how Shinji will have that spear from Cassius, but I would say that it is quite possible that that spear was just what Shinji in 3.0 was looking for and that due to some action of Gendo it became (or was replaced) by a Spear of Longinus). Actually Kaworu may want to look like the main villain just to have Shinji redeemed. From my personal point of view I would say that these are the few scenarios in which Gendo may no longer be the villian but I think he will continue to be really the villain of the situation at least until the clash between Eva 01 and 13 and that it will be unleashed by something that could shocking us. For the moment I don't think that at most Gendo could only apologize to Shinji when things could turn bad for him.

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Postby ElMariachi » Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:57 pm

No.
Even in Eoe Gendo wasn't redeemed (and Yui made clear her displeasure on how he treated their son by bitting him in half), and in NTE he has gone further than the NGE version ever did, he had publicly gone against humanity, continue to threaten it even after getting rid of SEELE, and let's not even talk about what he did to his son, manipulating him his entire life just to make him awake EVA-01, robbing him of 14 years of his life, damaging the bridge he made with the people he became close with to a possibly irreparable level and then kidnapping and manipulating him again to awake another Eva, completely destroying his sanity and causing him to kill his best and leaving him a vegetative husk.

So no, Gendo Ikari has gone way past the point of redemption, we might get his motivations in Shin that might make us understand him better and maybe seeing his motivations with some sympathy, but he has gone too far to deserve anything more.
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Postby FXArmaros98 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:34 pm

So no, Gendo Ikari has gone way past the point of redemption, we might get his motivations in Shin that might make us understand him better and maybe seeing his motivations with some sympathy, but he has gone too far to deserve anything more.
ElMariachi yes I can understand why you do not believe that Gendo deserves a minimum of understanding and pity. I expect instead that when things could get bad for him try to get Shinji to help him like his Manga counterpart did or at least he might have a moment where he apologizes to his son but I doubt that will happen. I have a feeling that maybe Anno might have made sure to make us look like Gendo the most asshole possible and then show us that he is actually an even more complex character than he was in EOE.

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Postby ArtyumR » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:27 pm

View Original PostThesufferingpumpkin wrote: What are the likelihood’s of a redemption for gendo in shin eva?


very likely, for what we know about the entire deal about human instrumentality could be just a damn lie
basically a Dr. Hell situation even if Gendo is really a genocidal maniac he's far better than *whatever*/whoever will be the mind behind/pulling the strings (fuyutsuki)

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Postby ShikinamiBogard » Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:26 am

I think this gonna happen maybe


SPOILER: Show
Image


First of all, let's start with the context of the images, these are of Nadia and the secret of the Blue Water, in which this (Captain Nemo) is Nadia's father and must sacrifice himself so that the others can leave the Noa Network safely His last words are saying goodbye to everyone, especially Nadia, of whom he says with regret that this is his way of apologizing for everything and that above all "Long live, have a life ahead".

With this said, we go to 3.0 + 1.0 in which in the final battle, Gendo would realize that his "Human instrumentalization" is a mistake while confronted by Shinji. Shinji sacrifices himself with his Wunder to close Gauf's doors, saying goodbye to Shinji and asking for his forgiveness and to move on, to live and to stop unit 13.

With this Gendo would fulfill the promise he made to Yui to take care of Shinji (Let's remember when he is having dinner with Rei he appears to him and says, honey take care of Shinji).

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Postby chee » Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:55 pm

Unless anno and tsurumaki both had strokes, I don't see why there would there be a narratively coherent reason to redeem him at this point, he's arguably an even bigger monster than in the original.

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Postby ShikinamiBogard » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:05 pm

View Original Postchee wrote:Unless anno and tsurumaki both had strokes, I don't see why there would there be a narratively coherent reason to redeem him at this point, he's arguably an even bigger monster than in the original.


Well, Gendo is inspired on Anno's real Father, maybe this gonna end the cycle for him (Anno) and contrary to NGE when he is on depression and kill her father (Symbolic) just now he is just forgive him and go forward , thats for me the RoE message (yeah, Because he says now he had friends, a wife etc, and is happy now)

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Postby FXArmaros98 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:24 pm

First of all, let's start with the context of the images, these are of Nadia and the secret of the Blue Water, in which this (Captain Nemo) is Nadia's father and must sacrifice himself so that the others can leave the Noa Network safely His last words are saying goodbye to everyone, especially Nadia, of whom he says with regret that this is his way of apologizing for everything and that above all "Long live, have a life ahead".


@ ShikinamiBogard From my personal point of view I would say that the problem with this hypothesis that Gendo can be like Nemo is that what we have seen so far shows us that Misato is Captain Nemo, some people have pointed out that the damage that Gendo has on the viewer would be a paralelism with the mask damaged with Gargoyle.

With this said, we go to 3.0 + 1.0 in which in the final battle, Gendo would realize that his "Human instrumentalization" is a mistake while confronted by Shinji. Shinji sacrifices himself with his Wunder to close Gauf's doors, saying goodbye to Shinji and asking for his forgiveness and to move on, to live and to stop unit 13.
With this Gendo would fulfill the promise he made to Yui to take care of Shinji (Let's remember when he is having dinner with Rei he appears to him and says, honey take care of Shinji).


I think Gendo will try instead to convince Shinji not to hinder him, perhaps as in the Manga he will even try to push Shinji to help him see Yui again. If there is anyone who could make a heroic sacrifice it is Misato. I have no doubt that maybe Gendo will regret it but when it happens I think it will be too late by now, I mean Gendo at this point can no longer go back, only when he no longer has the opportunity to see Yui will he realize what he really did to his son and the planet.All this of course is just my personal theory, I don't mean to disrespect you and your opinions.

he's arguably an even bigger monster than in the original.


@chee Yes I would say that this Gendo is really a bastard. Although I have a feeling that we will be able to see some scenes where he turns out to be a more complex character and maybe regret what he did to his son as in EOE I doubt this version of Gendo can show us that he is not a total asshole and that a he will do something good before going against his end.

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Postby ShikinamiBogard » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:28 pm

I think Gendo will try instead to convince Shinji not to hinder him, perhaps as in the Manga he will even try to push Shinji to help him see Yui again. If there is anyone who could make a heroic sacrifice it is Misato. I have no doubt that maybe Gendo will regret it but when it happens I think it will be too late by now, I mean Gendo at this point can no longer go back, only when he no longer has the opportunity to see Yui will he realize what he really did to his son and the planet.All this of course is just my personal theory, I don't mean to disrespect you and your opinions.


no problem, you had a good point there, maybe when Gendo realize what have done, and all is for nothing he regret it but too late to do something

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Postby FXArmaros98 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:43 pm

maybe when Gendo realize what have done, and all is for nothing he regret it but too late to do something


@ ShikinamiBogard Maybe I'm taking everything a little for granted. I mean it's Anno the director not me so I think it's wrong for me and other people to disprove all theories that seem the most absurd until we see the film ^_^

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Postby duppertip » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:17 pm

It does fit, especially when Gendo is directly referred to as King of Lilin, in same way as Nemo used to be the King of Atlantis/Tartessos.
I wonder if we will see Rei and Shinji shooting Gendo under Fuyutsuki's command :shifty:

View Original PostFXArmaros98 wrote:From my personal point of view I would say that the problem with this hypothesis that Gendo can be like Nemo is that what we have seen so far shows us that Misato is Captain Nemo, some people have pointed out that the damage that Gendo has on the viewer would be a paralelism with the mask damaged with Gargoyle.


Nemo had two major narrative roles - as Parent and as the Captain.
Misato is clearly not cut to fill the Parent role. Nor it would make sense. She would likely be shown as Captain and forced to confront her decisions in life that paved way to her leading Wunder - perhaps others will learn that she isn't saint, maybe Ritsuko gonna do the thing.
Gendo, however, perfectly fits in the role of the Parent that Nemo had. And exactly because he is a monster, his redemption would be much more gratifying, his final sacrifice meaningful and will mean detaching himself from cold ambitions and inhuman aspirations Gargoylutsuki has - who is definitely a lost cause and looks even more inhuman compared to Gendo.

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Postby FXArmaros98 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:45 pm

@ duppertip I know you are new to this forum so I kindly ask you not to write 2 more posts in a row (this is one of the rules of this forum).

It does fit, especially when Gendo is directly referred to as King of Lilin, in same way as Nemo used to be the King of Atlantis/Tartessos.


It is true this is a detail that I had forgotten.So it would make sense if Gendo like Nemo proved to not be a total asshole, even though I doubt he can now go back and fix his mistakes.

Gendo, however, perfectly fits in the role of the Parent that Nemo had. And exactly because he is a monster, his redemption would be much more gratifying, his final sacrifice meaningful and will mean detaching himself from cold ambitions and inhuman aspirations Gargoylutsuki has - who is definitely a lost cause and looks even more inhuman compared to Gendo.


Well it would be much more satisfying to see Gendo in this version prove he is capable of doing something good, plus Fuyutsuki who could turn out to be a villian is indeed a scenario I would like to see. But I feel that Anno may have deliberately put these possible parallels with Nadia as a sort of misdirection for what really awaits us when we see the film.

I wonder if we will see Rei and Shinji shooting Gendo under Fuyutsuki's command


That would be damn funny ... But I think the bullet-like damage to Gendo's viewer is actually a misdirection as to how he really get that wound. In my crazy mind I even imagined that Shinji may have used the SDAT that belonged to Gendo to attack him. As crazy as my guess is, you have to admit that it makes sense that Shinji finally gets rid of his father's SDAT in that way.

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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:43 pm

View Original Postduppertip wrote:Nemo had two major narrative roles - as Parent and as the Captain.
Misato is clearly not cut to fill the Parent role. Nor it would make sense. She would likely be shown as Captain and forced to confront her decisions in life that paved way to her leading Wunder - perhaps others will learn that she isn't saint, maybe Ritsuko gonna do the thing.
Gendo, however, perfectly fits in the role of the Parent that Nemo had. And exactly because he is a monster, his redemption would be much more gratifying, his final sacrifice meaningful and will mean detaching himself from cold ambitions and inhuman aspirations Gargoylutsuki has - who is definitely a lost cause and looks even more inhuman compared to Gendo.

Gendo is even less cut to be the Parent figure than Misato, as he never acted like a parent to Shinji in the three movies, instead being his manipulator and root of his suffering.
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Postby FXArmaros98 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:10 pm

Gendo is even less cut to be the Parent figure than Misato, as he never acted like a parent to Shinji in the three movies, instead being his manipulator and root of his suffering.

Gendo is a monster but let's remember that he is a character of Anno so it seems impossible to me that this film does not reserve some surprises for Shinji and Gendo. I'm not say that Gendo and Shinji will suddenly become a father and son couple who will save the world, but being this a film of Anno we cannot take anything for granted or disprove all the theories we read. Gendo both in the Manga and in the anime looked like just an asshole but in the moment his plans went to get fucked up thanks to Yui he managed to have a moment where he had positive feelings for his son, precisely because here he is more asshole I expect his latest interactions with Shinji will show us that he is a more complex character than he may appear to be until now redemption or not.

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Postby duppertip » Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:00 am

View Original PostFXArmaros98 wrote:@ duppertip I know you are new to this forum so I kindly ask you not to write 2 more posts in a row (this is one of the rules of this forum).


My bad.

View Original PostFXArmaros98 wrote:So it would make sense if Gendo like Nemo proved to not be a total asshole, even though I doubt he can now go back and fix his mistakes.


Nemo couldn't fix his mistakes either, only accept the responsibility for them and stop things from getting worse :emogendo:
In general Eva doesn't support any kind of magical fixing the world and all things, with 3.0 making it painfully clear. Nor he can become a good person. But he can embrace his feelings to his son and stop running away from Shinji.

View Original PostFXArmaros98 wrote:But I feel that Anno may have deliberately put these possible parallels with Nadia as a sort of misdirection for what really awaits us when we see the film.


I heavily doubt that the parallels are a misdirection. It doesn't mean that we could arrive there in same way or if it would play out same though, same as 3.0 despite many clear similarities (and similar scenes) wasn't really Nadia in essence. I mean, Shinji arguably acts like Nadia in Wunder-Nautilus and wants to leave... and leaves this place with Jean on the flying vessel; I know it's a stretch, but what I mean is that similarity doesn't mean much if context is different. It's simply a likely plot element... and we do know anyway that Gendo must have a closure.

In some scenes, like Misato with wounded arm, we are indeed teased that Ritsuko shoots it which may not be necessary.

View Original PostFXArmaros98 wrote:That would be damn funny ... But I think the bullet-like damage to Gendo's viewer is actually a misdirection as to how he really get that wound. In my crazy mind I even imagined that Shinji may have used the SDAT that belonged to Gendo to attack him. As crazy as my guess is, you have to admit that it makes sense that Shinji finally gets rid of his father's SDAT in that way.


I heavily disagree, mainly because SDAT belongs to Rei Q now. If she perishes (her clone body decays that is), Shinji will be one to pick SDAT, making it second time he picks it from Rei. If I were to entertain a way for SDAT to be gone... I would imagine Shinji giving it back to Gendo that is working to redeem himself in final acts before the self-sacrifice, helping him to look into future instead of clinging to Yui. Gendo's death with SDAT would be profoundly satisfying.

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Gendo is even less cut to be the Parent figure than Misato, as he never acted like a parent to Shinji in the three movies, instead being his manipulator and root of his suffering.


Abusing Shinji doesn't mean that Shinji ever stopped seeing him as father.
And it was always made clear that Misato couldn't become the parent figure to Shinji. Not even in the happy 2.0.

This said, Nemo also never made a good father figure. We were just thrown many hints that he isn't bad person while Gendo only has a few scenes showing him as human and knowledge from EoE that he is afraid of bonds with Shinji.

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Postby Zusuchan » Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:33 am

duppertip wrote:
This said, Nemo also never made a good father figure. We were just thrown many hints that he isn't bad person while Gendo only has a few scenes showing him as human and knowledge from EoE that he is afraid of bonds with Shinji.


There were consistent hints that for all his actions, Nemo did really care for Nadia. With NTE!Gendo, there are no such hints and pointing at EoE is an action that means nothing, since despite the heavy intertextuality between the original canon and NTE, they are also extremely different in many ways, which means using NGE/EoE in order to make a point/theory about NTE without having something in the films to corroborate that theory is a pointless exercise, really. I would also like to point out that Gendo isn't just afraid of an emotional relationship with Shinji, but of an emotional relationship with anyone.

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Postby silvermoonlight » Thu Feb 25, 2021 5:18 am

I only see this happening if Gendo himself is a puppet and the real master is Kozo Fuyutsuki I say this as in 3.33 Gendo hardly spoke which I found really weird but Fuyutsuki does directly to Shinji and Yui is on display like she's a trophy so him or Gendo can look at her when ever they want.

SPOILER: Show
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Also as a side note I've heard in the Evangelion Anima those special face visors which Keel was wearing are used to control Kaji which makes me wonder could Fuyutsuki control Gendo the same way.

I've always had a theory that Seele themselves could be godly and very long-lived in the rebuild version and the visor is there to suppress their power and soul and maintain it, but in regular humans it could suppress their souls making them mindless puppets who just do as their told.

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Postby UrsusArctos » Thu Feb 25, 2021 5:46 am

View Original PostShikinamiBogard wrote:Well, Gendo is inspired on Anno's real Father


Anno had a bad relationship with his father, but the idea that Gendo (whether in NGE or NTE) is based on Anno's real father is a misconception.

The idea that Gendo is somehow Fuyutsuki's literal puppet would make the few conversations between Gendo and Fuyutsuki in 3.0 quite pointless, and that's why I'm not supportive of it at all. Gendo being metaphorically blind to Fuyutsuki's true plans is likely, however.
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Postby FXArmaros98 » Thu Feb 25, 2021 5:46 am

In some scenes, like Misato with wounded arm, we are indeed teased that Ritsuko shoots it which may not be necessary.


If they want to make other parallels with Nadia, the hypothesis that Ritsuko shoots Misato makes perfect sense. However, I think that we should not speculate that that injury is the result of a shooting with Gendo or that in reality that blood-soaked armband is actually a piece of Kaji's shirt that Misato decided to read on her arm only when it arrived. the final confrontation with Nerv.

I heavily disagree, mainly because SDAT belongs to Rei Q now. If she perishes (her clone body decays that is), Shinji will be one to pick SDAT, making it second time he picks it from Rei. If I were to entertain a way for SDAT to be gone... I would imagine Shinji giving it back to Gendo that is working to redeem himself in final acts before the self-sacrifice, helping him to look into future instead of clinging to Yui. Gendo's death with SDAT would be profoundly satisfying.


Yes it would be very satisfying but in any case I believe that in any case my hypothesis can still happen, as I always maintain the fact that until we have seen this film we can not take anything for granted.

There were consistent hints that for all his actions, Nemo did really care for Nadia. With NTE!Gendo, there are no such hints and pointing at EoE is an action that means nothing, since despite the heavy intertextuality between the original canon and NTE, they are also extremely different in many ways, which means using NGE/EoE in order to make a point/theory about NTE without having something in the films to corroborate that theory is a pointless exercise, really.


At the moment we know this Gendo is colder than that of the anime and more antagonistic towards his son but I do not think we can fully judge him at least until the release of the film. be really However it is true that we cannot use EOE to give ourselves confirmations regarding the possible future actions of a character.I wonder if Anno may have rethought his abusive father to conceive this Gendo, who perhaps made the decision to really pit Shinji and Gendo against each other because maybe he regretted that NGE and EOE both ended without a last interaction between them that could finally end their relationship.

I would also like to point out that Gendo isn't just afraid of an emotional relationship with Shinji, but of an emotional relationship with anyone.


It would be really interesting to know how this Gendo version feels towards humans (indifference towards genocide apart of course). I mean we don't know if maybe there could be something other than Yui that could have prompted him and Fuyutsuki to use Shinji in that horrible way. Perhaps for Gendo humanity is weak, he lives in the misseria, without the Evangelion the Angels would have killed us, therefore it is possible that Yui, Fuyutsuki and Gendo were all 3 in agreement on the fact that the human race needed Instrumentality?


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