Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka?

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Re: Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka?

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Postby BusterMachine4 » Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:30 pm

Well, I think the pause between Asuka's breasts being revealed and Shinji climaxing was too long for it to have been a premature ejaculation. It seems like he was actually masturbating there, it wasn't an accident.

And I agree with Zusuchan, that fictional characters forgiving other fictional characters isn't a measure of whether they actually should be forgiven. Goku in Dragon Ball forgave Vegeta after he burned down an entire city, killing all the inhabitants. That doesn't mean that killing the entire population of a city somehow becomes a forgivable act. I think Eva fans in general have a tendency to act like the show's characters are real people, despite it being a fictional show about giant robots. I guess it's a testament to the quality of the character writing, but still.

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Re: Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka?

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:02 pm

Fuck us, Shinji does not need our forgiveness, nor does he need to earn it, we are not the victim. You can do 1 of 4 things; hate him, be meh about him, like him, or love him.

If we are talking about having him face consequences by rule of law, sure, if such rules were reinstated after Third Impact and Asuka decided to press charges, so be it.

But she came back to him, she wouldn't have if she didn't forgive him. She would have let him go insane with loneliness and have him do himself in eventually.
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Re: Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka?

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Postby BusterMachine4 » Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:45 pm

Dude, did you read my post? These characters are not real, stop acting like they are.

And I'd prefer if you didn't drop F-bombs constantly at people who disagree with you about a fictional show. It just feels needlessly aggressive.

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Re: Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka?

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:43 pm

The question is "Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka". I'm applying our precious emotions to whether we as human beings can forgive an imaginary character because that's all we have left to argue for the victim has already forgiven the victimizer in his own goddamn universe.

Sorry for the language, it is out of hand, but seriously, fuck our emotions when it comes to feeling outrage on someone's behalf.
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Re: Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka?

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Postby silvermoonlight » Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:16 pm

View Original PostChaddyManPrime wrote:Sorry for the language, it is out of hand, but seriously, fuck our emotions when it comes to feeling outrage on someone's behalf.


Please stop swearing at people who do not agree with you, people are entitled to their opinions, and you may not agree with them but that is how life is not everyone will agree with you, and you can't force others to agree with you...
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Re: Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka?

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Postby BusterMachine4 » Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:36 pm

Chaddy, I feel like you still don't get what I'm saying. The way you keep saying "You can't talk about whether you'd forgive him, because you aren't the victim!" kind of implies that there was ever a real "victim" in the first place. But Eva is a fictional story. The perpetrator isn't real, and the victim isn't real either. Because of that, the opinions of fictional characters on the issue don't really have any bearing on it. Fictional characters can be written to say whatever the creator wants. Whether a real person would forgive Shinji for his actions is a completely different issue, and it's the one we're trying to examine here. What a fictional character has to say about the issue means nothing.

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Re: Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka?

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Postby Zusuchan » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:40 am

sithsauron:Like BM4 said, there's no reason to assume Shinji was doing anything else but intentionally masturbating while knowing full well the immorality of his actions at the time. I also think the impact of the scene would be lessened if it was an "accident", since the whole point of Shinji masturbating to Asuka was that he was in such a horrifyingly low point that he had become someone who just kind of crawls through life, letting himself be led by his basest instincts. The point was to show to the audience just how low Shinji had fallen and if it was an accident, the meaning would therefore be lesser.

ChaddyManPrime:I think the problem is you seem to assume that once a person has been forgiven, all is well- neither great art like NGE nor real life work like that, however. How many cases of domestic violence being "forgiven" by the victims for no good reasons are there in the world? Enough for it to have become just about a cliche. I feel that too much grandstanding is stupid, but still, when trying to look at people who have done bad and trying to ascertain whether or not they are worthy of forgiveness and under which conditions, I don't see a reason to look at them being forgiven by victims as a reason for me personally to agree they can now be forgiven, if I disagree with the victim's reasoning for forgiveness.

That is not to say Shinji can't be forgiven-I personally think he can. But I feel that this sort of reasoning based on what victims have done to those who have made them victims is a faulty logic, both when used for fiction and for real life.

Edit: Cleaned up a few typos and a sentence that I fucked up and which therefore ended up having a meaning different to what I wanted it to have.

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Re: Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka?

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Postby pwhodges » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:04 am

Forgiveness is much more to do with the mental state of the forgiver than the forgiven.
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Re: Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka?

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Postby sithsauron » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:25 am

I don't know Zusu, being that person who just crawls through life perversely doesn't switch-on overnight (or just after defeating the last angel in Shinji's case). Becoming a lowest low life is a process, which Shinji was really embarking on at that point. I don't believe he was regularly jerking off at that time (despite what Asuka said in the dream sequence, most of which I thought was hyperbole), and I certainly doubt he had time to jerk it given that he was aware Misato was spying on him on a day-to-day level, not to mention he works for Nerve who may keep tabs on him too, and Shinji has been depicted as spending more of his alone-time on the train than in his bedroom maybe even before joining Nerve. I got the feeling from the scene that Shinji was suddenly watching himself free-fall toward what could eventually be a pure scumbag level, and he realized what he could be capable of in the future by witnessing himself do something perverse and not having the will stop it. The scene did not give the feeling he was already a straight-up creep at that time and decided to whip-it-out just to prove it. Generally I believe you can't be a real pervert at 13 years old even intentionally despite being horny, but you can begin on the path at that age to eventually become one by 17-18 years of age at earliest. That's why I internally characterize the off-camera act as a clumsy un-hinged amateur attempt at instinctual self-arousal followed by sudden unplanned orgasm rather than practiced deliberate and premeditated masturbation. The act just kind of started and ended before Shinji had time to think about it and he got hit my an intense wave of guilt shortly after. But of course he is used to guilt and a little bit addicted to it, but his guilt-complex is another story.

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Re: Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka?

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Postby Zusuchan » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:55 am

I feel that Shinji already had masturbated prior to the hospital scene-it's not like Misato was really spying on him or anything (I don't know where you got that idea from) and there's no reason to assume whatsoever Asuka was lying in the train scene (seeing as her and Shinji's minds were already intertwined at that point).

In my view, Shinji masturbating in the hospital scene is still more of an instinctual act the meaning of which he doesn't fully encompass when he does it. The thing is, Shinji is at a low point there. He has lost the one person he could still rely on, Kaworu, at his own hand no less. He feels tremendous guilt for that. He is scared of Misato due to her attempt to sleep with him and her refusal/incapability to adequately support him after Kaworu's death and he is scared of Rei due to his own complicated feelings toward her to begin with, now heightened due to her status as a clone of the girl she knew and a clone of her mother to boot. With Toji and Kensuke also away from Tokyo-3, Asuka is thus the last person he feels comfortable with, the last vestige of normalcy he still has in this fucked-up world. Now depressed beyond all hope thanks to his previous experiences throughout the rest of the show, he visits Asuka and wants her to wake up, so he can have some normalcy back in his life. Notice how he even says he wants her to insult him-not because he likes it, because that's something he can expect, that's something she would do. That's how screwed-up he already is at the moment.

And then he sees Asuka's breasts exposed. And then he masturbates to her, having most likely locked the door for it as well, because instinct has taken over. This is him getting rid of his pent-up sexual frustration with her, this is him using her, this is him doing something so as to assert to himself :"Yes, I really am the lowest of the low"-and this is also him giving in to a natural instinct. He sees a girl's breasts, he gets hard, he gets rid of the hardness. Mind you, all of this is mostly still subconscious, I doubt he really had a lot of knowledge about the reasons for why he did what he did. But I feel all of this makes sense and certainly more than the idea that everything that happened was some sort of an "accident", which, mind you, makes the whole thing only a bit better.


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