I question some of the rules here

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kuribo-04
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I question some of the rules here

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Postby kuribo-04 » Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:54 pm

I have been here for like 8 years, so I feel I have the right to speak my mind. Does that mean I won't respect the rules? No. It isn't my site. But I think feedback is healthy.

Anyway, after seeing that BusterMachine4 got suspended (over the top IMO) I felt the need to speak my mind.

Mod posts interrupt topics way more than anything they target like at least half of the time. I don't think mods are at fault here. After all they are following the rules, which is their job. What I question os the rules themselves. Like is there an actual point to them or are they being maintained just for the sake of it?

I've always thought the way on-topic gets enforced is counterintuitive to the way conversations and debate actually happen. I don't know how often I've refrained from posting something IMO valuable for fear of "going off-topic".

I think one solution I always liked is mods cutting out off topic parts and adding them "where they belong", but maybe that is kinda cumbersome in the long run, I dunno.

Anyway, I do get the final goal of having readable topics that stand the test of time and stay focused, but isn't there another solution? Putting stuff that is more off-topic in spoilers, or even having a sub-forum where it is allowed to talk more free-form (though honestly I suspect that would just attract most conversation after a while).

Anyway, it's not like I'll stop using EGF or go to another forum or anything. But wanted to give my two cents as a semi-long user. I'm aware I'm not a mod and unaware of behind the scenes work and such.
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Re: I question some of the rules here

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Postby Blockio » Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:39 pm

As far as BM4 is concerned - he had recieved three warnings for various behaviour beforehand, and by his own admission saw my bold red announcement to keep things on topic, yet did not feel the need to adhere to it.

As for the rules themselves; yes, there is a point to having things stay on topic, mainly that people who don't care about the topic pf a tangent don't have to endure them, and the people looking for the topic discussed don't need to scour unrelated threads for it.
When a tangent arises and is not dealt with in a timely fashion (which, don't get me wrong, is definitely on us), you are all free to respond in a different thread closer to the topic in question or, should such a topic not exist, create a new one for it; in both cases, if it went on for any length of time before that and the topic is worth discussing, the posts of the tangent will be moved there
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Re: I question some of the rules here

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Postby TheFriskyIan » Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:34 pm

View Original PostBlockio wrote:As for the rules themselves; yes, there is a point to having things stay on topic, mainly that people who don't care about the topic pf a tangent don't have to endure them

How unanimous are you guys in this matter? It hasn’t been an issue for me for about six months now but I feel certain tangents that are clearly off topic being ignored by some mods while other mods crack down on it before it even gets semi-lukewarm let alone heated. I’d give a more obvious example but for everyone’s sake I’m trying to be as vague as possible.
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Re: I question some of the rules here

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Postby Blockio » Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:09 pm

Oh no, if you feel like we're being inconsistent, please do give specific examples
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Re: I question some of the rules here

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Postby Derantor » Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:49 pm

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:But wanted to give my two cents as a semi-long user. I'm aware I'm not a mod and unaware of behind the scenes work and such.

And your feedback is well appreciated. So, thank you!

First up: There already is the chit-chat section, where moderation is (or should be) laxer. The discussion section is supposed to be more serious, that's why some stuff that would fly in chit chat is cut off there.

As for enforcing off-topic: general practice is (or should be), that tangents that have value on their own get split off into their own topic. Stuff that is simply retreading old ground (like the umpteenth iteration of "I wonder if character X will get together with character Y") simply get shut down. The goal is not to interrupt productive discussions, and in the end, it's decided on a case by case basis. So, if the original topic of a thread has died down and there's no obvious need for further elaboration, but a secondary, productive discussion was spawned, there's no need to bring the thread back on topic right away. The tangent can still be split off later if new stuff regarding the original topic comes up.

For an example, look at this thread: Kaworu and SEELE/Gendo's Plans/Angel Rebirth. The thread meanders to different topics, but all of them are interconnected and it seems impossible to split them apart at any point. So ... the title got changed instead. The discussion continued to be in depth, too, and didn't begin to repeat. A limited number of people took part, too.

What I'm trying to get at: it's much more complicated in practice than in principle. Ultimately, a lot is left to self-regulation. But if, for example, we have thread discussing the third trailer and one discussing social media, and people who post in both threads discuss both things in both topics, some adjustments are required.

And, to reiterate what Blockio said, BusterMachine04, just a few days back, was the target of moderative action. Willingly ignoring big, bold red letters calling for on topic with the excuse that "yeah, I did read it, but I did it anyway, but it's okay because I called for on topic myself" is simply not something that can be tolerated. Either you heed warnings, or you don't, you don't get to circumvent them at your leisure. Of course, if you feel you're being treated unfairly, there's always the option to contact the Staff.

Anyway, those were a lot of words which most likely didn't make things that much clearer.

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Re: I question some of the rules here

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Postby UrsusArctos » Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:07 pm

View Original PostTheFriskyIan wrote: I feel certain tangents that are clearly off topic being ignored by some mods while other mods crack down on it before it even gets semi-lukewarm let alone heated. I’d give a more obvious example but for everyone’s sake I’m trying to be as vague as possible.


Not sure what you mean by this. You could PM one of us the "more obvious example" that you're talking about so we better understand what your concern is.

Like Derantor said, the goal is to keep productive discussion going. A tangent that is off-topic but productive is a very different case than one that actively degrades or disrupts discussion. While I can't comment on what tangents you perceive mods crack down upon without an example, we tend to focus on shutting down/deleting/splitting out tangents that ruin discussion or are simply not fun by mutual assent.
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Re: I question some of the rules here

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Postby Berserker » Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:10 am

I also feel like sharing something. Recently all these banning led me to think that why don't we have something like an intervention thread? Don't get me wrong, the mods' judgements are absolutely fair. But this thread would be open to everyone, so instead of pm'ing the person at fault the mods can warn them there as well as regular members can report something that seems inappropriate or offensive to them in any way. If someone points out something that's actually fine but the accuser(even the mods) thinks it's not, everyone can give their judgement on it, making it totally fair. Now, I'm fully aware that I'm nowhere near to the position of giving decisions of my own over the admins and mods' better judgements. This is something that just came to my mind as a suggestion, and it's entirely up to the higher ups what to think of it. If it becomes a thing, maybe this thread could be renamed after it fulfills its purpose.
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Re: I question some of the rules here

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Postby Zusuchan » Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:08 am

The problem with the suggestion is that it would make all decision-making very hard. If a mistake has been made, the person warned is welcome to point it out either through PMs or emails. This thing you suggest would hurt the mod staff's ability to make decisions effectively and quickly and would bog down every potential decision with an over-extended discussion. I feel that the current way is better.

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Re: I question some of the rules here

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Postby pwhodges » Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:00 pm

View Original PostDerantor wrote:As for enforcing off-topic: general practice is (or should be), that tangents that have value on their own get split off into their own topic. Stuff that is simply retreading old ground (like the umpteenth iteration of "I wonder if character X will get together with character Y") simply get shut down. The goal is not to interrupt productive discussions, and in the end, it's decided on a case by case basis. So, if the original topic of a thread has died down and there's no obvious need for further elaboration, but a secondary, productive discussion was spawned, there's no need to bring the thread back on topic right away. The tangent can still be split off later if new stuff regarding the original topic comes up.

On thread drift, Derantor has it right. Being too prescriptive about it restricts imaginative discussion.

On community opinions about bans and the like: these typically appear as threads in the News and Feedback section, and that's fine. An alternative, if that seems too ad hoc, and if it seems worth a change, is the way we've done it at QC, where there is a sticky thread: "Are the mods taking the forum the right way?" in which forum members can discuss decisions of interest (usually after the event), and the mods can give their feelings on the matter. Making it sticky helped ensure that people were confident that criticism was allowed and indeed welcome.
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Re: I question some of the rules here

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Postby UrsusArctos » Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:10 pm

@Berserker - I appreciate the sentiment behind the idea, but unfortunately it's not practical. Like Zusuchan said, that would make a decision very hard and bog down even simple matters in excessive discussion.

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:An alternative, if that seems too ad hoc, and if it seems worth a change, is the way we've done it at QC, where there is a sticky thread: "Are the mods taking the forum the right way?" in which forum members can discuss decisions of interest (usually after the event), and the mods can give their feelings on the matter. Making it sticky helped ensure that people were confident that criticism was allowed and indeed welcome.


This sounds like something to put into practice.
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Re: I question some of the rules here

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Postby kuribo-04 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:58 pm

As you can see I did not come back to this topic since the first post lol.

I did honestly mean what I said, but I hoope it wasn't understood as an attack. The topic title already sounds too agressive for my liking.

It's not an excuse, but the last months I was in a very dark place. As I finally get out of that hole and feel a little more like myself again, I feel a little embarassed at what seemed like subtle assholeishness. Here and other places probably.
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Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
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Re: I question some of the rules here

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Postby silvermoonlight » Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:46 pm

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:I did honestly mean what I said, but I hoope it wasn't understood as an attack. The topic title already sounds too agressive for my liking.

It's not an excuse, but the last months I was in a very dark place. As I finally get out of that hole and feel a little more like myself again, I feel a little embarassed at what seemed like subtle assholeishness. Here and other places probably.


2020 has been a very rough year for everyone in different ways so no one blames you for feeling this way as a lot of people I know are having difficulty with mental health the good thing is that you are in a better place now.
Anywhere can be paradise as long as you have the will to live. After all, you are alive, so you will always have the chance to be happy.

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Re: I question some of the rules here

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Postby kuribo-04 » Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:30 pm

Thank you. :)
But I really wanna pay more attention that so it doesn't happen.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
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