The 'pilots are ADAMs' idea (which I currently believe) always reminds me of how in Sailor Moon .

It wouldn't be the first time Anno (who's good friends with Ikuhara, did some animation on the SM season 1 finale, based Misato partly off Usagi, and (I heard) changed Rei's name from Yui Ichigo to Sailor Mars' name) had dropped some SM references.

FXArmaros98 wrote:Indeed, as an example I could use the Dragon Ball Super manga, it offers us new plots but the citations to old sagas are certainly not lacking since Toriyama cannot suddenly have the stroke of genius that he had in the 80s

That's an interesting statement, actually. With regard to the DBS manga, I'm not sure if it is comparable to NTE. That's because we don't really know how much input Toriyama has over the story and how many of it is just Toyotaro horsing around.
Honestly, I think that Toriyama is just playing a role of supervisor right now. His days of writing and illustrating Dragon Ball were over in 1995. That's different from Anno, who still wants to mess around with his Evangelion IP.
With that being said, Toriyama did write the script for DBS Broly and had a lot of fun doing it. This is a movie that reuses a lot of old ideas (which were not necessarily his) in a new context and works very well. Well, I think your example also has its merits.

Now, on the Rebuilds themselves, I can sympathize with Jäeger. I mean, the sci-fi elements don't actually bother me, but I know that they cut corners in character development. I know this is pretty much the "Shinji show" now, I know people vanished from the narrative out of a sudden and I know that the story is not as impactful as before. But, I'm ok with it.
That's just how things are. If I want to enjoy myself while watching these movies, I need to accept them for what they are and stop comparing them to the original series. In the end, they are fun and have some good ideas.
As of right now, I would PERSONALLY place things like this: NGE >>>>>> NGE Manga >> NTE. But who knows what I will think about it after 3.0 + 1.0? I'm open for it, I guess.
By the way, I'm not saying that everyone should follow my example. If they hate the movies, that's completely valid. When it comes to taste, there is no right and wrong.

ShinjiStranglesAsuka wrote:
The films are a little more subtle, yes, but there are still plenty of moments of introspection and just straight up telling.

Obviously there are still moments of straight-out telling in NTE, just as there are instances of "show-don't-tell" in NGE and EoE. But when comparing NGE/EoE and NTE, then NTE does opt a lot more for "show-don't-tell" when it comes to its characters.

BernardoCairo wrote:

FXArmaros98#908280 wrote:Indeed, as an example I could use the Dragon Ball Super manga, it offers us new plots but the citations to old sagas are certainly not lacking since Toriyama cannot suddenly have the stroke of genius that he had in the 80s

That's an interesting statement, actually. With regard to the DBS manga, I'm not sure if it is comparable to NTE. That's because we don't really know how much input Toriyama has over the story and how many of it is just Toyotaro horsing around.
Honestly, I think that Toriyama is just playing a role of a he is a supervisor role right now. His days of writing and illustrating Dragon Ball were over in 1995. That's different from Anno, who still wants to mess around with his Evangelion IP.
With that being said, Toriyama did write the script for DBS Broly and had a lot of fun doing it. That's a movie that reuses a bunch of old ideas (that were not necessarily his) in a new context and it does it pretty well. I guess your example has its merits too.

BernardoCairo what I meant was not to make a real parallelism between Anno's way of working and that of Toriyama, but I simply wanted to make it clear that it is now difficult not to use what has already been used in the past for a future work given the possible lack of new ideas. But anyway thanks for praising my post.

The 'pilots are ADAMs' idea (which I currently believe) always reminds me of how in Sailor Moon

Excellent observation Lacissal Well guys what to say, in Sailor Moon we have a people who lived on the moon and in Rebuilds we find Kaworu and SEELE right on the moon. With this I am not saying that the pilots are 100% Adams but still an interesting coincidence

BusterMachine4 Reichu in the blog that belongs to her has written interesting things about the fact that Anno may have used not only Nadia and Sailor Moon for the story of pilots like Adams but also Ultraman. I don't want to force you to read her theory but it is quite interesting, you could take a look at it.

I guess the “reincarnated Adams” theory isn’t necessarily bad in and of itself, I’m just worried about how it will be handled in the actual movie.

Well the purpose of this idea could be to give Shinji's psyche another blow, I guess it could be that Kaworu's vision reveal all the details of their possible past together as aliens. If the pilots are not confirmed Adams will certainly not be a problem for me, it is enough that when this film comes out it gives us the appropriate answers. Speaking of Kaworu what if this time instead being the re-incarnation of a Giant of Light he was truly the first Angel?

FXArmaros98 wrote:...Reichu in the blog that belongs to her has written interesting things about the fact that Aanno may have used not only Nadia and Sailor Moon for the story of pilots like Adams but also Ultraman. I don't want to force you to read his theory...

(FYI, Reichu is female.)

pwhodges wrote:(FYI, Reichu is female.)

I'm laughing of myself because I already knew it and I accidentally used his instead of her Hell, I have to be a lot more careful when I write.

Zusuchan wrote:NTE has gone the opposite route of instead opting for "show-don't-tell".

I'm somewhat busy at the moment and have to keep it short, but yes, that's the gist of it I think. People should keep that in mimd when they watch the Rebuild films IMO, and they'll get more out of them.

BusterMachine4 wrote:

kuribo-04#908258 wrote:You have seen the films right? They are very much drama films.

I mean, we’re not disputing that. We’re just saying that the whole “pilots are Adams” theory coming true would turn it into pure sci-fi by removing the everyman nature of the protagonists. That’s what we don’t want.

Pilots = Adams isn't that big of an issue in my eyes. I'm more worried about the possible revelation that Shinji's been brainwashed more extensively than we know. Anything that takes the weight off of Shinji's choices would also lessen the weight of the plot.

The entire children = Adams thing does bother me to be honest. It would retroactively make all of them completely unrelatable to me.

I really don’t believe in the Children=Adams since the beginning. It is just a narrative choice that would render the “a human amongst other humans” prospective useless, making em a deus ex machina themselves
It is already shown that they are not human anymore due to extensive or intense connection with the godly machines, which led the world to the shitty red hell
I think the opposite. They need to undo everything that turned em into non human entities (the Lilin +) to fix em and the world
The final Shin poster already hints (together with the “goodbye all of eva” at freedom of being a normal guy enjoying life
Look at that calm beach and how human they behave

I split off the original off-topic discussion here. Anyone interested in continuing that discussion can continue so there.

Also, the discussion of whether or not the Children are Adams and how that would impact NTE is also skirting dangerously close to a longer off-topic discussion. If anyone wishes to continue this discussion, they are welcome to do so either here or start their own thread.

Speaking of the Adams = Children thingy, from the same thread, there's something Reichu quoted from the 2.0 CRC that quite piqued my interest and it's about Asuka's doll:

Reichu wrote:- Doll played with since or during childhood
- Named "Asuka"
- The only one she [child Asuka] had to talk to
- Something received when she left town for the first time since [leaving] the lab
- Red hood to evoke a German flavor?
- Already raggedy, but should appear treasured (no fewer than ten years of use).
- Is small and intended for a 4- or 5-year-old, so is difficult for 14-year-old Asuka to put her hand in it

The notes make me think that this shot from the trailer will be from a scene that will finally reveal from where and who did she receive the doll. I once speculated that this shot is a flashback from Asuka's childhood in Europe and you know what? Almost everything from the notes supported it.



Now, for my pre-release headcanon:
We have a very young-looking Asuka in a snowy-looking place presumably around 4-5 years old, that would make it around 10 years before 1.0 begins. (I'm 99% sure it's Asuka, as the section in trailer has shots that each represent a character)

It could possibly be in German (Remember, parts of the world are still snowing after 2I and even 3I in Rebuild, Wille's temporary base at the beginning of 3.0 proves that) and apparently she's looking at somebody while being flustered, perhaps she's being given something (the doll). Then there's the doll name; "Asuka", either she named it herself or the giver did. But the simplicity of the name implies that the one who did is either carefree or simple-minded.

Gee, I wonder who that is? Now, it's basically impossible to know who gave her the doll at this point because there's no concrete evidence or hints that could help us pinpoint who, but hey, this is EGF and I can speculate as long as I believe what I'm saying, so from me, there are three potential candidates:
1. Misato, because her lines in 2.0 confirmed that they've both met in the past, although it seems to be pretty recent and their relationship seems to be on a mere professional level before she moved out to her apartment.
2. Shinji, through a twist that they've actually both met as children. and got their memories wiped out for some reason, although there's no evidence, foreshadowing, or whatsoever about this, other than her expression in this shot looks like the classic "Baka Shinji" reaction face.

And for the last one, wait for it.

TA-DA!

3. Mari.

What? Why are you looking at me like that? Hear me out first!

Ahem, so. Both are of Japanese-European descends with Asuka and Mari having German and British blood, respectively, so they lived in the continent at some point early in their lives. They could either be from the same lab and making them childhood "friends" or perhaps half-sisters, with the mysterious lady in Fuyutsuki's old photo who looked like Mari with hair accessories similar to Asuka's being their mother, who we can assume as Japanese because the photo was taken in Japan and that makes her either Fuyu's old friend or student like Yui. The doll was given by Mari, perhaps as a farewell gift before she goes away somewhere because the notes mentioned that it's the only "friend" Asuka had to talk to during her childhood.

It's easy to think that the close partnership they have in 3.0 is the result of being Wille's pilot sisters in arms for the last 14 years, however I feel that the timeskip and their banters also meant to mislead us to believe that, to hide the fact that they've know each other long before post-NTI times and it's something the films want to keep secret until the final one.

If we want to go deeper, some of the early scenarios for Mari are to either have her completely replace Asuka's role after the latter got killed off midway into 2.0, or they both piloted Unit-02 together during the climax of the film (kind of a progenitor for the idea of them "overlapping" in Shin Eva, isnt it?), indicating that whatever scenario Anno and co. have written for both Mari and Asuka in the final script, both were always meant to be connected or paralleled in some ways. As crazy as it might sounds, I think there'll a big reveal about them in Shin and it's probably in this scene.

Seems likely enough. My only issue is that the lady who's supposedly Mari and Asuka's mom looks everything like Mari and nothing like Asuka.

Yeah that one is admittedly kind of a reach and could easily be a red herring but it's worth noting out anyway, especially with her shirt having the grid patterns and that thing is a recurring element in 3.0, some sort of visual cue to note something important (The area where Kaworu's piano is, the blood-stained Moon, Fuyu's shogi table, and Lilith's skin).

I'm more convinced that it was Mari who gave the doll/puppet, I was thinking about this possibility while typing a post on another thread days ago. BTW, nice headcanon: there are a few more things than I'd think.

I'm leaning more towards Mari and Shinji being childhood friends (very likely, if not confirmed already!) in Japan while Asuka grew up alone in Europe.

^
Yes, there is a probability. In the most recent poster, Mari is much closer to Shinji than Asuka (I don't know if we should use promotional material as evidence for something). But I still think there is some connection between Mari and Asuka in the past, and I can't explain it.

Could be! My justification for my thinking is that is when Mari landed on Shinji on the school rooftop, she knew him by smell. But when she was in Unit-02, she said a more vague statement like "This Eva smells like someone else."