NTE characters and their relationships

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Re: Shin Eva - New Trailer (12-24-20)

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Postby Zusuchan » Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:43 am

BusterMachine4 wrote:
I didn’t want 15 minutes of post-writing to go to waste.

Well, in some instances those things have to happen. There's also no reason for you to have dedicated 15 minutes to writing your post when a mod had already asked for the off-topic discussion to be stopped.

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Re: Shin Eva - New Trailer (12-24-20)

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Postby ArtyumR » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:20 am

View Original PostLightDragonman wrote:Yeah yeah, I've heard it all before. Still want those two to have closure regardless, regardless of however it's portrayed (still don't think clones are incest). XD

But anyways, back on topic.


clones are still incest that's not the problem here I read enough science fiction to know that something like that is just a big yikes but not in-universe.
(time enough for love - The Number of the Beast by Robert A. Heinlein) the problem here is simpler.

What the hell does Anno want to tell? Nobody knows but I'm cynical so I can speculate, Eva is a product with multiple entries and money behind, with its fandom completely shattered by stupidity "evangelion is a deconstruction of mecha" and "waifu wars" (more stupidity) so if Eva is a product and needs to be a complete success then he will choose the easier and safer option just don't touch that theme about love and shipping just make it vague so nobody will be angry or mad at you.

and that's what you'll get, some scenes with Asuka being in love with Shinji or having a grudge with him that she will be able to forget because she can't get angry with her first crush and so on and so forth.

Personally I don't care. I've been disappointed by eva since the beginning even the original I like more Argento soma than eva just to make clear my neutral position about this franchise. shipping is the least of my concerns or thoughts.

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Re: NTE characters and their relationships

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Postby ShinjiStranglesAsuka » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:38 am

Oh boy an NTE ship thread. ^_^

Honestly I wish I didn't have lingering sentiments from Soryu x Shinji. It's making me want a rebuild version of AsuShin even though it doesn't make any sense at this point.

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Re: NTE characters and their relationships

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Postby BernardoCairo » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:50 am

I don't think this is necessarily a ship conversation. I was just trying to figure out Asuka's role in 3.0 + 1.0. It was just the end of it that "evolved" into an "Asumari" thing for whatever reason hahaha.
By the way, I can feel you, man. Sometimes it's hard for my conscience to separate the original series from the Rebuilds (especially in this case) hahaha.
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Re: NTE characters and their relationships

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Postby Jäeger » Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:22 pm

Still, if somebody quotes a director or a creator, he should be able to find the source
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Re: NTE characters and their relationships

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Postby Kiiwiibird » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:04 pm

late to the party but i saw on twitter someone said 'my Big biggest fear is for 3.0+1.0 to be like "hahaha silly Asuka is still a tsundere and she still has a crush on Shinji 14 years later"' and gotta say, sort of agree, less about the ship side and more in that i'd just like to see her developed more as an individual outside of Shinjis sphere of influence, yknow?

I'd personally be down with her bonding with Q Rei, especially after Asuka seemed to have an impact on her at the end of 3.33
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Re: NTE characters and their relationships

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Postby Settie » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:18 pm

Sadly it seems that Asuka is bound to Shinji. 3.0 was the perfect opportunity to reintroduce her with her own arc, but it was not meant to be. So w/e her backstory and role is in final, i get the feeling it will involve Shinji in some way.

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Re: NTE characters and their relationships

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Postby ShinjiStranglesAsuka » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:41 pm

On one hand it'd be nice for everyone to get some independency from Shinji. On the other hand, if you're too far removed from Shinji then you pretty much get no screentime. :shrug:

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Re: NTE characters and their relationships

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Postby Jäeger » Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:30 am

View Original PostKiiwiibird wrote:late to the party but i saw on twitter someone said 'my Big biggest fear is for 3.0+1.0 to be like "hahaha silly Asuka is still a tsundere and she still has a crush on Shinji 14 years later"' and gotta say, sort of agree, less about the ship side and more in that i'd just like to see her developed more as an individual outside of Shinjis sphere of influence, yknow?

I'd personally be down with her bonding with Q Rei, especially after Asuka seemed to have an impact on her at the end of 3.33


Beings such a Shinji centric continuity, forget about any relationship without him implied. Whatever development of Asuka will imply him, so no room for a "ep 22" here. And yeah, It's sad.

PD

For the ones who say that clones are not incest.....how would you see a female character who fucks her father's clone? Creepy, right? :cringe:
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Re: NTE characters and their relationships

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Postby kuribo-04 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:52 am

People shouldn't take the timeskip so literally. Or in general a lot of things about 3.0. Things have a very symbolic quality by the third film.

So yeah, the story from 2.0 getting continued makes sense IMO.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
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Re: NTE characters and their relationships

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Postby LightDragonman » Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:31 am

Jäeger wrote: For the ones who say that clones are not incest.....how would you see a female character who fucks her father's clone? Creepy, right? :cringe:


Depends if said clone is also a half-human hybrid and has a soul and personality that is much different from just being a 100% copy of the original. XD

kuribo-04 wrote:People shouldn't take the timeskip so literally. Or in general a lot of things about 3.0. Things have a very symbolic quality by the third film.

So yeah, the story from 2.0 getting continued makes sense IMO.


But then why have the timeskip be so far into the future? Just seems to me like a lot of potential storylines were thrown away because of it purely because of themes and symbolism.
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Re: NTE characters and their relationships

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Postby kuribo-04 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:43 am

View Original PostLightDragonman wrote:But then why have the timeskip be so far into the future? Just seems to me like a lot of potential storylines were thrown away because of it purely because of themes and symbolism.

To justify the massive amount of changes. Plot threads were "thrown away" (they will be followed actually, just with the added tragedy of "what could have been") to introduce new ones. But the story is being continued.

And well, it is meant to be so many years. I just mean that Asuka still being into Shinji doesn't seem out of place to me regardless of how long the timeskip is. Her story right now seems to be about holding a grudge and having the past dictate some of her behaviour, so it makes sense.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
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Re: NTE characters and their relationships

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Postby LightDragonman » Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:54 am

Just seems like they threw away so many potentially interesting storylines to make way for ones that are simply more depressing in order to hammer home the "escapism is bad" message that the ending of 2.22 is supposed to be now.

Look, I don't even mind a time-skip per se. But it being 14 years as opposed to, say, two or three years seems a bit excessive. It also makes it really hard for me to think that Asuka would still harbor feelings for someone she was more or less willing to give up on pursuing after she saw that Rei was much more dedicated to him. 14 years of fighting and experiences will change someone, regardless if their physical body remains the same.
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Re: NTE characters and their relationships

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Postby kuribo-04 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:06 am

It isn't that the ending to 2.0 is supposed to be something different than it was, it's different based on whose lense you see it. I'm sure Shin will change our perspective even more.

As for the Asuka thing, I'd just be reiterating what I said. I don't think a two or three year timeskip would be comparable, to the point that I think it would bring little to the film. Also, 3.0 is one of the potential great storylines to follow 2.0. It's not like this is about different characters, or set in another world. And it is incredibly innovative.

And things were "ruined" by the end of 2.0 anyway. Most of that film's second half just feels like "Man, what could have been", hence the "You can (not) advance" title. 3.0 just makes it even worse.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
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Re: NTE characters and their relationships

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Postby Kendrix » Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:12 am

Yeah but WHY is icent bad in real life?
a) Because it's usually rape, of an especially defenseless victim
b) Exploiting of a power dynamic where there should be a caretaking bond, subverting a normal family dynamic
c) Do it too often in a row you end up like those super malformed royal families

None of that really applies to two ppl the same (mental) age who never had any sort of family relationship whatsoever.

Like if Gendo had not sent Shinji away but raised them together it would be a whole different matter (& their relationship dynamic would be completely different anyways) as it stands even Asuka is closer to being a sister-like figure from living in the same household & sharing Misato & Kaji as parental figures.

I think French law is very rational here (which has it so that being raped by an adopted parent or caretaker qualifies, but consenting adults never do)

Now from a plot crafting perspective that plot thread was certainly meant to introduce some sense of 'tragic doomed ness'

But also, Rei is her own person and one simple visceral way to hammer that home is to show her having drastically different relationships. Like if Gendo wanted to boink her just because he was Yui's lover we'd all agree that would be wrong, because she's *not* the same as Yui, she has her own will & different life circumstances (which involve being away too young & a dependent/subordinate of his) Same thing.

I don't think the feeling they were going for is "How dare you do something without 100% pure motives, that thoughtcrime shall now be punished" (after all Misato was cheering him on) but "that feel when you try your hardest and it still explodes in your face"
Note that in the drafts the ending of "EVA 01 goes out of control" existed long before the Ayanami rescue operation.



Shinji's situation might represent a feeling that all your peers are more accomplished that you & you weren't able to catch up. Or they just decided "hey lets make everyone the same age as the actors, cant do that with Shinji tho since we'd need someone to do an actual man voice"

Also from a sci-fi perspective They were always going for a theme of "barely controllable power" but in the oG series it usually worked out helpfully when EVA01 went berserk. Might as well do that theme in a different way ad show it really backfire.
Same with ReiQ - she's there to squeeze more horror mileage out of the artificial soldier thing
Alas poor Kaworu! I knew him well...
Todo list:
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Re: NTE characters and their relationships

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Postby kuribo-04 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:19 am

View Original PostKendrix wrote:Or they just decided "hey lets make everyone the same age as the actors, cant do that with Shinji tho since we'd need someone to do an actual man voice"

I never thought about this...but I don't see Shinji's voice ever changing lol. Kinda like my boy Goku.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
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Re: NTE characters and their relationships

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Postby Kendrix » Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:40 am

In the alternate life action sequence they had Anno himself say Shinji's one line didn't they?

Poor Asuka. So far the possible futures she's gotten are "dreary office lady who cant hold down a steadyrelationship" and "grizzled post-apocalyptic general"
They both suck in wildly different genres but they both suck...

How about a version of 20something!Asuka who gets therapy & then has a successful career or something

seems the closest we'll get is that SIRP ending where Shinji becomes an ordinary college Student and Asuka is now his (as well as mana's and Rei's) professor. its ridiculous but at least its a fun kind of ridiculous.
Alas poor Kaworu! I knew him well...
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Re: NTE characters and their relationships

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Postby BernardoCairo » Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:46 am

@Kiiwiibird
On Asuka, I kinda of agree with everyone. So, it's a little bit hard to explain my ideas.
Basically, I think you're partially right. It would actually be cool to have a character break up from "Shinji's shadow", especially her. In the original series, Soryu's story was connected to Shinji's. But, it was not all about him. She had her own internal struggles, her on drama. Now, in NTE, Shikinami's pure existence as a character is fundamentally connected to Shinji. I mean, she has her problems, but most of it goes right back to him. 3.0, in specific, made a lot of efforts to show how she was personally pissed with him, but still cared about his life, nevertheless (as indicated not only by the ending, but also the fact that she actually wanted his help).
Therefore, for the writers to close Shikinami's story, they have to include Shinji on the mix. It doesn't really matter if she has romantic feelings for him, actually. What's important is that she feels something and that must be explored. As I said before, I wouldn't mind if they ended up together. I mean, it wouldn't bother me. But that doesn't mean that I would go out of my way to make it happen. I just want Asuka to have more screen time. That's all.
On a side note, if she still "likes" him, it would be nice to see her dealing with it in a more mature manner, rather than the "tsundere thing" you've just described. If she can't handle it, I get it. But, at least, make her try.

Regarding the situation of incest, it is a very delicate topic. Personally, I think that Rei and Shinji are quite weird together. Firstly, I would never "bang" my own mother, not even if she was a clone or something. I mean, she would have different experiences and all, but that's still the body and genes of my mom. So, no. It doesn't matter that she has blue hair hahaha.
Besides that, Ayanami has always been a mother figure for Shinji, not a girlfriend. In the manga, Shinji himself reflects on it (after Asuka questioned him about it).

I never thought about this...but I don't see Shinji's voice ever changing lol. Kinda like my boy Goku.

I think that Ogata could play Shinji as an adult. She would just have to thicken her voice (kinda like what Nozawa does, but less "uplifting"). If that's not enough, which I highly doubt, just throw in Gendo's voice in the mix. They are already very similar overall hahaha
Last edited by BernardoCairo on Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NTE characters and their relationships

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Postby LightDragonman » Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:01 am

Well for me at least, the fact that Rei is also half-Angel also makes me more willing to accept her relationship with Shinji. She's not Yui or Lilith, but someone different. Heck, given her genetic makeup, she's her own unique entity, you could say. And while yeah, in the original, she was more of a mother figure you could say, here in Rebuild, it is less so, at least in my eyes.

But more than anything, I am really interested and also nervous to see where they take her character and her relationship with Shinji in the next film. Provided that Anno doesn't just drop or ignore her character for the majority of it given his famous hatred of her for what he sees as a symbol for escapism.
Proud fanboy of Rei Ayanami. :p

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Re: NTE characters and their relationships

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Postby Jäeger » Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:18 am

View Original PostLightDragonman wrote:
View Original PostJäeger wrote: For the ones who say that clones are not incest.....how would you see a female character who fucks her father's clone? Creepy, right? :cringe:


Depends if said clone is also a half-human hybrid and has a soul and personality that is much different from just being a 100% copy of the original. XD



No, it would be creepy.

And we are talking about a character who is a 1:1 copy of the source material, save for the color of her eyes and hair.

Shinji gets the idea as soon as Fuyutsuki hands him over Yui's (Ayanami!) photo....

99,9% of the audience got the idea watching the movie. That was the point of the revelation.

View Original PostBernardoCairo wrote:@Kiiwiibird


Regarding the situation of incest, it is a very delicate topic. Personally, I think that Rei and Shinji are quite weird together. Firstly, I would never "bang" my own mother, not even if she was a clone or something. I mean, she would have different experiences and all, but that's still the body and genes of my mom. So, no. It doesn't matter that she has blue hair hahaha.
Besides that, Ayanami has always been a mother figure for Shinji, not a girlfriend. In the manga, Shinji himself reflects on it (after Asuka questioned him about it).


Now imagine, in an alternate world, that Asuka is the MC of Evangelion. And Kaworu an exact clone of his father (with grey hair and red eyes). And he bangs her.

Creepy, right?
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