Jäeger wrote:So we have changed a psychological drama about "normal" people in a mecha show disguise (Which made Eva special)...for pure a sci-fi show.
Ok, ok...

Yeah, that's exactly my problem with the "pilots are Adams" theory. The protagonists' everyman qualities are a big part of the show's appeal, and having them turn out to be the reincarnations of ancient space gods would kind of ruin that in my opinion. I really hope Anno doesn't do it.

Jäeger wrote:So we have changed a psychological drama about "normal" people in a mecha show disguise (Which made Eva special)...for pure a sci-fi show.
Ok, ok...

You have seen the films right? They are very much drama films.

Also Rei was Lilith in NGE and that didn't make her less pf a human character (whose strange origins are just a stand in for identity crisis/multiple personality in my view).

kuribo-04 wrote:You have seen the films right? They are very much drama films.

I mean, we’re not disputing that. We’re just saying that the whole “pilots are Adams” theory coming true would turn it into pure sci-fi by removing the everyman nature of the protagonists. That’s what we don’t want.

Hello guys and girls, I've been a lurker on this site since long ago, but now I have created an account to join you on the speculations about Shin Eva. So... Has anyone noticed how between the 3rd trailer and the new Tv spot the Doors of Guf have changed in color and consistency? I mean, i think it's supposed to be the same battle scene; but for some reason when Mari and Asuka's evas start to descend into the Doors in the 3rd trailer, we see rainbow-colored Doors of Guf like the ones from 4th impact, and then in the new Tv Spot the Doors seem to be Red again as the ones from NTI but wider. Any ideas?

Maybe the nature of the Final Impact changes during the scene, perhaps due to some Eva awakening?

@Heaven Piercing Man, Yeah, I was thinking something along those lines. Maybe the Final Impact is a battle over who might control it, be it Eva Unit 01 or Evangelion 13 and that's why the color of the Doors of Guf are changing from Rainbow-colored to the Red ones.

Well, Reichu speculated that there are actually two gates in the scene: the rainbow one is controlled by Unit 13, the red one is controlled by Unit 1. The rainbow gate is on top of the red one, and Asuka and Mari need to get through both for unknown reasons. It's just a theory, though.

@BusterMachine4 that seems plausible too, I mean, the center of the rainbow-colored Doors of Guf is a big black hole. Meanwhile the center of the red Doors of Guf seem to be too tiny. Even in 2.22 we saw Unit 01 developing a halo that started growing in size as well as bigger Doors of Guf started growing over Tokyo III. So there were two different Doors at the same time.

kuribo-04 wrote:

Jäeger#908245 wrote:So we have changed a psychological drama about "normal" people in a mecha show disguise (Which made Eva special)...for pure a sci-fi show.
Ok, ok...

You have seen the films right? They are very much drama films.

Also Rei was Lilith in NGE and that didn't make her less pf a human character (whose strange origins are just a stand in for identity crisis/multiple personality in my view).

Yeah, I have seen them, more than once (like you) and no, they are not. The characters have issues? There is drama? Yeah, like ANY serious mecha show for the last two decades. We are not living in 1994, times have changed. Even the Adams theory has ZERO ORIGINALITY. So no, NTE is not a psychological drama (not even an inch of introspection), at least that should be clear. Same way is not a comedy despite having its funny momemnts. It's not a crime, they have the right to take a different aproach, but we shouldn´t lie ourselves.

And in NGE the point of Rei was about how different she was from "normal" humans......and for a lot of episodes she was relegated to the background or the role of a plot device, and you know that fact. And in EOE....a GOD, so zero introspection there. Worst example as a choice.

Kendrix wrote:

Isn't that basically Rei (or Kaworu)?

Characters that, from the beginning, exist to be "different" from the others, being more important for what they are than for what they think.

The question is : what would add to the narrative the "revelation" of Shinji being the host of one of the Adams soul?

Jäeger wrote:

kuribo-04#908258 wrote:The question is : what would add to the narrative the "revelation" of Shinji being the host of one of the Adams soul?

The fact that it would make his meeting with Misato a real twist of fate, as well as the fact that this would explain why Kaworu and SEELE seem to know Shinji for so long and why Shini was at least as necessary to Gendo's plans as the Eva 01 Rei's series. This obviously is just my personal opinion, if someone will don't like the thingh if it turns out to be true I can't help it.

FXArmaros98 wrote:

Jäeger#908270 wrote:

The fact that it would make his meeting with Misato a real twist of fate, as well as the fact that this would explain why Kaworu and SEELE seem to know Shinji for so long and why Shini was at least as necessary to Gendo's plans as the Eva 01 Rei's series. This obviously is just my personal opinion, if someone will don't like the thingh if it turns out to be true I can't help it.

Yeah, you have answered yourself : a twist, a cheap one.

Jäeger Everyone thinks how they want,I certainly do not intend to impose my opinion on others.If you don't like my theory and my opinion because you find it as something taken for granted, I can't help it. But seriously in this days of present it is difficult to make animated series where the twists are not taken for granted, we are in 2021 and no longer in the period when it was easier to have original ideas.

We’re just saying that the whole “pilots are Adams” theory coming true would turn it into pure sci-fi by removing the everyman nature of the protagonists. That’s what we don’t want.

BusterMachine4 even if it turns out that pilots are not human beings, I will continue to regard them as such. I mean Kaworu was an angel but as proof that he too like a human being not without flaws was deceived by Gendo, failing to make Shinji happy (I'm not 100% sure about this, we know too little about the Kaworu personality and its agenda). Shinji may be revealed to be the embodiment of an Alien God but that in my opinion wouldn't cancel the fact as a normal kid was easily manipulated and risked his life in dangerous situations. For me it's like a kind of parallelism with Nadia as Reichu mentioned in her blog. Nadia is an alien but she preferred life as a human being and suffered just like a normal girl who found herself in horrible situations. Also Asuka has been infected with an angel and as Shinji can cross the Barrier L, the everyman nature of the protagonists is already gone in my opinion. The anime and the Rebuilds are both works of Evangelion, but I personally believes they have a different meaning. The anime taught us to accept ourselves and learn to bond with others, but here I believe that the message is simply to find the strength to move forward.

FXArmaros98 wrote:But seriously in this days of present it is difficult to make animated series where the twists are not taken for granted, we are in 2021 and no longer in the period when it was easier to have original ideas.

I agree with this statement! To find out if something in the script is either good or bad varies from context, clichés are not exactly a problem, as long as they're well worked out, IMHO.

JoelcrNeto wrote:I agree with this statement! To find out if something in the script is either good or bad varies from context, clichés are not exactly a problem, as long as they're well worked out, IMHO.

Indeed, as an example I could use the Dragon Ball Super manga, it offers us new plots but the citations to old sagas are certainly not lacking since Toriyama cannot suddenly have the stroke of genius that he had in the 80s. The same is true for Anno in my opinion, now we are no longer in the 90s there are now anime series of all kinds so however much a director may commit himself sooner or later he will end up falling into the discount or too repetitive. The important thing is to give a logical sense to the story, then whether you like it or not will be decided by each individual based on his personal opinions.

Jäeger wrote:Even the Adams theory has ZERO ORIGINALITY.

I have no particular reason to believe the Adam theory over any other. I just don't think it would undo all the character work that is in the films.

So no, NTE is not a psychological drama (not even an inch of introspection), at least that should be clear.

The very direct approach to introspection in NGE (characters literally talking about what goes through their mind) isn't the only way to depict psychological complexities in movies. There's the entirety of the audiovisual medium to exploit and Rebuild does that.

And in NGE the point of Rei was about how different she was from "normal" humans......and for a lot of episodes she was relegated to the background or the role of a plot device, and you know that fact. And in EOE....a GOD, so zero introspection there. Worst example as a choice.

That Rei is different and a God in NGE's plot doesn't mean she's not just another character for the cast. None of the characters are relatable if you take it that literally. I'm sure no one on this forum has the responsibility of saving the entire Earth, nor are we in such positions of power as characters like Gendo.

I'd recommend you rewatch stuff like Rei's End of TV segments seeing her as just another character dealing with her own mental issues, cause honestly that's what I feel it is about.

kuribo-04 wrote:

So no, NTE is not a psychological drama (not even an inch of introspection), at least that should be clear.

The very direct approach to introspection in NGE (characters literally talking about what goes through their mind) isn't the only way to depict psychological complexities in movies. There's the entirety of the audiovisual medium to exploit and Rebuild does that.

kuribo-04 right, we must not forget about Rei Quantum play the role of psychologist for Shinji in his dreams in 1.0 and 2.0, without even neglecting that Shinji in 3.0 after have discovers the truth about his mother and a bit of Rei by Fuyutsuki he was near start to freak out remembered the thinghs that were said to him by Asuka, Misato, Gendo and Sakura. If this is not psychological drama then what is psychological drama really is so?

kuribo-04 wrote:
The very direct approach to introspection in NGE (characters literally talking about what goes through their mind) isn't the only way to depict psychological complexities in movies. There's the entirety of the audiovisual medium to exploit and Rebuild does that.

Bingo. Unlike NGE, where a lot of times we just get to see the characters' mental problems and thoughts, NTE has gone the opposite route of instead opting for "show-don't-tell". Also, while NTE as a whole may not be a psychological drama, that doesn't mean the psychology of the characters isn't discussed in it nor that it makes NTE a lesser work because of that. And even the assessment NTE isn't a psychological drama isn't entirely accurate, since Q was pretty psychological.

It's also kind of funny to see someone deride Reichu's theory of the Children being the Adams as making Eva too sci-fi, even though the original work was sci-fi as well. Just like NGE and EoE, NTE also has the mythology play an important, but ultimately secondary part to the main story of the characters. I can't even assess how it's bad because it removes the "everyman" nature of the MCs-need I remind you that Rei and Kaworu are arguably also one of the main characters in the original canon, and they aren't exactly "everyman" characters? Even in the original canon, humans were already Angels, so quite honestly this is just taking that particular idea a notch further and applying it to the main characters.

I've always felt one of Rebuild's charms is the greater focus on the lore and its mysteries, the character dramas are still there and as important as ever, but I feel that I'm a lot more intrigued with Rebuild's lore than the original series, partly because we have yet to see everything it offers and the whole thing about the 14 years timeskip. We already have our deep psychological drama Eva with 26 episodes of NGE+The End of Evangelion and I totally don't mind with the sci-fi elements being much more prominent than before, it helps setting itself apart from NGE and now we have two takes of the Evangelion myth directly from the man Anno himself but each with a different approach.

So no, NTE is not a psychological drama (not even an inch of introspection), at least that should be clear.

NTE has gone the opposite route of instead opting for "show-don't-tell".

There are different ways of approaching psychological drama than the Leliel/Arazel/Armisael way that the series employed. The films are a little more subtle, yes, but there are still plenty of moments of introspection and just straight up telling. In 2.0 for example, we have Shinji riding psychological train after the 9th Angel incident, where he explicitly tells us what he's thinking. We also get scenes of Asuka talking to her sock puppet and talking to Misato, literally telling us about her issues.

NTE not being a psychological drama is a hot take. What else is it? Maybe it doesn't resonante with you the way that NGE did, which is fine; it's the same for me, but Shinji's psychological issues are still driving the plot.

The 'pilots are ADAMs' idea (which I currently believe) always reminds me of how in Sailor Moon .

It wouldn't be the first time Anno (who's good friends with Ikuhara, did some animation on the SM season 1 finale, based Misato partly off Usagi, and (I heard) changed Rei's name from Yui Ichigo to Sailor Mars' name) had dropped some SM references.