Asuka behaviour at EVA 2.22. Doll doubt.

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment is scheduled to debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Asuka behaviour at EVA 2.22. Doll doubt.

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Postby Javi2541997 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:34 am

Hello there!

I just seen Evangelion 2.22 and I perceived an interesting detail about Asuka behaviour in two different scenes:
1. When she is trying to sleep at Misato's house Asuka is playing with a doll and saying to herself "she does not need someone to be with" but looking more quite and relaxed playing with the doll as if it were an airplane.
2. In the scene where Asuka has to get into the new EVA she starts a phone call with Misato. I have seen that in the mirror where all the "girl's stuff" there is another doll with the make up, face cream, etc...
So I thought the following: Has she passed her own past traumas accepting the doll as a symbolism? I guess yes. Before I saw the movie I read interesting threads around internet. Most of the people wrote the rebuilds try to make the characters more "natural" and quite different from the original NGE.

PD: Also I found interesting the scene where Misato wants pick up an Asuka's face cream. They act so natural and it looks like there is some confidence between them as a girls (something we did not see at NGE)

What are your thoughts about the relationship between Asuka and her dolls?
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Re: Asuka behaviour at EVA 2.22. Doll doubt.

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Postby JoelcrNeto » Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:34 am

First of all, you misundestood one thing: actually there's only one doll:
Asuka's doll  SPOILER: Show
Image
Image
Image

I understand that the doll is a way for Asuka to replace someone's lack, she says "doesn't need anyone", but this is clearly a lie, she says this looking at the doll. I don't particularly think that the doll's symbolism in NTE (or Rebuild, as you prefer to call it) is rather different from the original show.

Also, when Reichu was here at EvaGeeks, she left a translation about Asuka's doll published in 2.0 CRC, you might be interested to know:
View Original PostReichu wrote:p.188

幼い時から/の時は人形あそびをしていた。
「アスカ」という名前、
彼女、誰一の話し相手、
研究所から初めて町に出た時にもらったもの
ドイツっぽ?イメージ赤ずきん?
もうボロボロだが、大事にしている感じがほしい。
(10年以上使っている)
4、5才向けな(?)ので作りが小さい、
14才のアスカには手が入りづらい

- Doll played with since or during childhood
- Named "Asuka"
- The only one she [child Asuka] had to talk to
- Something received when she left town for the first time since [leaving] the lab
- Red hood to evoke a German flavor?
- Already raggedy, but should appear treasured (no fewer than ten years of use).
- Is small and intended for a 4- or 5-year-old,
so is difficult for 14-year-old Asuka to put her hand in it
Last edited by JoelcrNeto on Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Asuka behaviour at EVA 2.22. Doll doubt.

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Postby Javi2541997 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:49 am

JoelcrNeto wrote:
Also, when Reichu was here at EvaGeeks, she left a translation of Asuka's doll published in 2.0 CRC, you might be interested to know


Thank you for sharing this. I going to check it out sure will carlify me a lot of doubts.
Also you are right! I did not notice there is actually one unique doll. I totally missed that detail.
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Re: Asuka behaviour at EVA 2.22. Doll doubt.

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Postby Zusuchan » Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:33 am

I feel that the doll is a way to show rather easily that Shikinami is very much a different character from Soryu and to also show a different way of revealing Asuka's inner loneliness and the downsides of her refusal to lean on/trust others. In NGE, she was far more outgoing, largely because she was far more obsessed with proving her worth there (an issue Shikinami doesn't really have), but she still had the same refusal to lean on others. In this case, due to the more limited timeframe and the different nature of the character, we instead get the stupidity of such a mindframe shown through her talking with a childhood doll i.e. she talks about how she doesn't need anyone while literally talking with a stuffed-up doll, an action which says exactly the opposite, that she does need or at least want someone, despite what she constantly reinforces to herself.

Besides from that, it's also another facet of Shikinami's escapist tendencies, also possible to observe through her predilection to play video games whenever possible.

Javi2541997 wrote:
Has she passed her own past traumas accepting the doll as a symbolism?

What do you mean by this? If it's that she may passed away from the trauma related to her mother, then I feel a reminder is in order that NTE is really quite different from NGE. There's no evidence Asuka's mother ever killed herself in NTE.

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Re: Asuka behaviour at EVA 2.22. Doll doubt.

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Postby Javi2541997 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:55 am

Zusuchan wrote:There's no evidence Asuka's mother ever killed herself in NTE.


Thank you for clarifying this point because I guess I totally messed up something important in NTE.
I think they are totally different characters from NGE. But specifically Asuka shows it with more evidence. For this reason I connected the pseudonym symbol of "doll" and her different behavior with her "past traumas"
Nevertheless, as you have explained to me there is no evidence of this ever existed in NTE so I have to understand it in a really diferent way from NGE to avoid get misunderstood.
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Re: Asuka behaviour at EVA 2.22. Doll doubt.

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Postby JoelcrNeto » Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:23 am

View Original PostZusuchan wrote:There's no evidence Asuka's mother ever killed herself in NTE.

Yes, I forget to say that in my previous post.

Shikinami's past is still a mystery, we have almost no information about her, it's expected this will be revealed in 3.0+1.0. We don't know whether her mother is called Kyoko (the same in NGE) or her mother is another person entirely. And yes, It is not recommended to make assumptions on NTE based on NGE, NTE is another media with many differences. The characters' backgrounds can change significantly. For now Shinji's appears to be the least different from the original, but it is still uncertain.

About that link, it is part of a Reichu theory: "Adams, Children, and the Nature of the Cycle". I think that will not help you to clarify doubts (it's just a theory), I was just linking with the source of the information. But if you want to read, you need to watch 3.33 first.
Last edited by JoelcrNeto on Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Asuka behaviour at EVA 2.22. Doll doubt.

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Postby Javi2541997 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:44 am

JoelcrNeto wrote: it is not recommended to be based on NGE, NTE is another media with many differences. The characters' backgrounds can change significantly. For now Shinji's appears to be the least different from the original, but it is still uncertain.


As I said before to Zusuchan, I am so sorry because I messed up mixing NTE with NGE (well this is the main reason why I like to be here and share my doubts to not be misunderstood). But anyways thank you for clarifying me the main differences to understand the roles and also the background in it. Agree Shinji appears to be different too but as you said it is completely uncertain.
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Re: Asuka behaviour at EVA 2.22. Doll doubt.

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Postby BernardoCairo » Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:30 pm

View Original PostZusuchan wrote:I feel that the doll is a way to show rather easily that Shikinami is very much a different character from Soryu

Yeah, definitely! Think about it, in the original series, Asuka's experience with a doll was not the best one in the world. In fact, it was the worst my mind can possibly devise. Now, Shikinami is different. Not only she seems to have no problems with the toy's figure, but she also relies on it to deal with her internal struggles...
Pretty good stuff!

Javi2541997 wrote:As I said before to Zusuchan, I am so sorry because I messed up mixing NTE with NGE (well this is the main reason why I like to be here and share my doubts to not be misunderstood).

This is the best thing about this forum. The people here are Evangelion fanatics. Compare to them, I'm a small fish (ESPECIALLY with regard to the Rebuilds). Therefore, I'm always learning more about the series while interacting with them.
Last edited by BernardoCairo on Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Asuka behaviour at EVA 2.22. Doll doubt.

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Postby Javi2541997 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:48 pm

BernardoCairo wrote:
This is the best thing about this forum. The people here are Evangelion fanatics. Compare to them, I'm a small fish (ESPECIALLY with regard to the Rebuilds). Therefore, I'm always learning more about the series while interacting with them.


Yes! You are right! I was looking since the past a year a good forum/community to speak about EVA and learning more. I think have a group of fanatics like this one is key to keep understanding Evangelion!
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Re: Asuka behaviour at EVA 2.22. Doll doubt.

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Postby silvermoonlight » Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:30 pm

I know this is a miner point, but the doll in rebuild is not a doll it's a puppet, puppets are normally used sometimes to say things you can't always say aloud, a puppet can be rude or deeply open on issues. You can also heavily control a puppet though its body, which you can't do with a doll in the same way. So the puppet maybe a metaphor for control unlike Langley's doll which she can't control as her mother is forever playing with it.
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Re: Asuka behaviour at EVA 2.22. Doll doubt.

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Postby JoelcrNeto » Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:09 pm

^
I realized this too. In Japanese the word「人形」(ningyō) means "doll; puppet; figure". Reichu translated as "doll", I think was mistake or she thinks was more convenient.

By the way, even though I know that, I keep calling it a doll
Last edited by JoelcrNeto on Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Asuka behaviour at EVA 2.22. Doll doubt.

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Postby BernardoCairo » Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:51 pm

For me, that's not a minor point. It actually embodies everything that Shikinami is in 2.0! She wants to have control over the way she behaves towards others. She wants to live only by herself, alone and untouchable. But that's just a lie and the way she manipulates the puppet, while also relying on it to deal with her problems, is a great indicative of that.
This conversation reminded me of that cut scene in which Unit 03 would start playing with Asuka’s feelings. Shikinami's face would shift from her body and, from it, the angel would say something like: "you are not like that, stop lying to yourself".
This can be interpreted as the angel saying that she is not the "lonely wolf" she pretends to be. It can also be seen as Unit 03 toying with her new friendships, stating that she is not the type of person who likes to be around other people and should be alone.
I don't recall the whole thing, so I'm not sure which of these ways the scene was going for...

About the puppet stuff, I don't think that it was an oversight. Every puppet can be a type of doll. But not every doll can be puppet. You got what I'm saying? Calling it a "doll" was probably just a stylistic choice.
Last edited by BernardoCairo on Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Asuka behaviour at EVA 2.22. Doll doubt.

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Postby kuribo-04 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:52 pm

Yeah people here said everything.

I'm entirely sure that doll, or puppet will be relevant in the final film.

I'd point out that while it's true that Rebuild is different, it still depends on the viewer's knowledge of NGE to some extent. Like that puppet is clearly a callback to Asuka Soryu. But to further analyze this I think we need more info.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
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Re: Asuka behaviour at EVA 2.22. Doll doubt.

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Postby ShinjiStranglesAsuka » Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:47 pm

Image

Little Red Riding Hood.

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Re: Asuka behaviour at EVA 2.22. Doll doubt.

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Postby kuribo-04 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:50 pm

∆ Nice. Also Anno thinks the red makes her look more German lol.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
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Re: Asuka behaviour at EVA 2.22. Doll doubt.

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Postby Javi2541997 » Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:24 am

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:
I'd point out that while it's true that Rebuild is different, it still depends on the viewer's knowledge of NGE to some extent. Like that puppet is clearly a callback to Asuka Soryu. But to further analyze this I think we need more info.


This is why I completely mixed NGE with NTE. I focused my point of view excessively in Asuka Soryu and her doll problems instead of looking more deep in Shikinami's
But after this thread I learned something important and I going to look Asuka NTE from a different perspective.
I supposed too the doll/puppet was an easy call to Asuka NGE but as you said we need more info.
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Re: Asuka behaviour at EVA 2.22. Doll doubt.

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Postby kuribo-04 » Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:49 am

∆ Another thing different is how she didn't pursue a friendship with Hikari in 2.0.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
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Re: Asuka behaviour at EVA 2.22. Doll doubt.

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Postby BernardoCairo » Sun Jan 24, 2021 2:01 am

Yeah, she wasn't into Kaji either. As I said, Asuka was in complete isolation. She was truly committed to the lie that she didn't need anyone. It's a shame to think about what happened when it finally opened up...
Last edited by BernardoCairo on Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Asuka behaviour at EVA 2.22. Doll doubt.

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Postby Javi2541997 » Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:09 am

How Asuka didn't try to make a friendship with Hikari like Kuribo said is one of the most things I missed about NTE Asuka. I always thought that Hikari was a good friend for her. They complemented so much. Even Asuka looked like more "open" to Hikari than anyone else.
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Re: Asuka behaviour at EVA 2.22. Doll doubt.

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Postby JoelcrNeto » Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:29 am

^
It's intrinsically linked to the fact that she's isolated, Hikari tries to approach her, but apparently it's not reciprocal. Also, in that moment, Asuka is a little flushed, as if she is embarrassed by the approach of Hikari wanting to have lunch with her, maybe there is a spark of a change of mindset "it's good to have friends" or "nobody wanted to eat together with me before". The reasons that lead her to this isolation is still unclear, but there's a "proto explanation", when she confides to Misato:
Misato: What's up, Asuka? Thoughts before the show starts?
Asuka: I just felt like having a private chat with you for some reason.
Misato: I see. I want to let you know again that appreciate what you're doing today. Thank you.
Asuka: You don't need to thank me [...] I'm not big on eating with everyone anyway. And it's exhausting to have to pretend you're enjoyng yourself along with everyone else. And I didn't want to have to sit around watching other be happy. And all I care about is piloting the EVA. And I like being by myself to begin with. And I had no use for phony friends. And there's never been anyone who's seen me for the real me. And as long as I have the top performance scores, I can make living at NERV. But some things happened recently that made me thing being around other people isn't all bad. It's so not me, though.
Misato: That's not true. Because you have a kind heart.
Asuka: You're the first one I've ever talked to like this. I feel better somehow. It feels nice to talk to someone. I had no idea.

For some reason Asuka doesn't like to see people happy, and she thinks that being alone is much better than having friends. I understand that she deals with this loneliness by piloting EVA, and doing her duty as someone who is part of NERV. The doll/puppet, is part of it all, is a companion for her; a replacing of friend.

I thought about it now, I don't even know if it's right, I must be talking a lot of bullshit (lol).
I believe she adopted Mari as her friend, she just doesn't confess :chuckles:
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