Are Rei II and Rei III considered the same characters by fans of evangelion/Rei?

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Are Rei II and Rei III considered the same characters by fans of evangelion/Rei?

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Postby mrptkv99 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:02 pm

Or the same person for that matter? I know they share a soul, and the soul of Rei II was transferred into Rei III but they seem to think and have completely different memories. Is the Rei in end of evangelion considered a different character from the Rei in the original anime who died in episode 23? Are they the same person experiencing convenient amnesia? I just couldn't understand so thanks for any clarifications.

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Re: Are Rei II and Rei III considered the same characters by fans of evangelion/Rei?

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Postby IgRAzm » Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:17 pm

In very short, no, they are considered basically different characters AFAIK. Not to say they don't have a common throughline. It's also not entirely the same opinion between the fans in regards to what memories exactly she has - some think she has some more understanding of her previous-previous life because of the soul of Rei I's addition, compared to Rei II. And, almost certainly, her soul doesn't have such a strong connection to Gendo after resurrection.

The main consensus on her memories seems to be that Rei III has memories from a backup that happened some time before her last sortie in Unit 00. I think it's more about the soul's changes than the memories, that creates the biggest personality differences.

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Re: Are Rei II and Rei III considered the same characters by fans of evangelion/Rei?

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Postby Kendrix » Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:24 pm

This is something that is probably supposed to be genuinely up for interpretation/ambiguous / going to be down to what you personally consider a person.
You'll find that takes on this vary wildly depending on whom you ask/ whose fanfiction you're reading.

Obviously there are going to be some similarities if they've got near-identical bodies & backupped memories (though she didn't really act like she really lived through it, though she knew who the various characters are, for example), they are created to be interchangeable. But wether Gendo & co fully succeeded at that is a different question.
They're also shown to carry some sort of imprint from the previous version (and what used to be Lillith is also still somewhere in there as a 'dark presence') & some consider that in itself evidence that they're the same, but I don't think that necessarily follows that they're the same. Perhaps one could think of the soul as the operating system on which each of their personalities ran as "programs"

The same sources that states they have the same soul also explicitly confirms that they "appeared to have different personalities", to me personally the latter is enough to make them separate.
See also what the following lines imply about her own experience of the matter:

"How can all of you possibly be me?"
"Simply because others call us that, that is the only reason"

I'd also note that the famous line goes "If I die, I can be replaced", not, "they'll just give me a new body" or "they will just bring me back".

And in EoE the apparition of #2 picks up Gendo's glasses after #3 told him to eff of, suggesting that they had different opinions regarding him.
Alas poor Kaworu! I knew him well...
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Re: Are Rei II and Rei III considered the same characters by fans of evangelion/Rei?

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Postby mrptkv99 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:36 pm

I was wondering because it is mentioned that the same soul is transferred to soulless bodies but at the same time the two reis act as separate entities. However the fandom when speaking of Rei doesn't really distinguish them as different characters at all from what I've noticed and it confused me especially because Rei is so universally liked but she doesn't really have any impact until the end of evangelion where its already Rei III. So I was wondering which of the two was actually the so well liked character

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Re: Are Rei II and Rei III considered the same characters by fans of evangelion/Rei?

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Postby Kendrix » Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:59 pm

View Original Postmrptkv99 wrote:but she doesn't really have any impact until the end of evangelion where its already Rei III. So I was wondering which of the two was actually the so well liked character


Even if they're separate they sort of exist within the context of each other so in a lot of respects it would be impractical not to consider the "series" as a whole (especially since there is some chunk of the fandom that does see them as largely the same)

I wouldn't say that she "doesn't have any impact", she does loads of cool stuff and has many moving scenes that are considered some of the most iconic. I mean I'd attribute the popularity to the one who's there for most of the series, though ppl like each of em for different reasons.

Some, like me, might have something of a preference for the second one - she's just a very sad character with a very tragic story that has its admirable points & beautiful moments of fleeting warmth.

The third one is more like an angry ghost type of character, & there's plenty of ppl who find that & her resentment & rebellion against Gendo to be more interesting (I mean, I don't think its not interesting)

I don't think there's a definite answer.
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Re: Are Rei II and Rei III considered the same characters by fans of evangelion/Rei?

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Postby mrptkv99 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:37 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:Even if they're separate they sort of exist within the context of each other so in a lot of respects it would be impractical not to consider the "series" as a whole (especially since there is some chunk of the fandom that does see them as largely the same)

I wouldn't say that she "doesn't have any impact", she does loads of cool stuff and has many moving scenes that are considered some of the most iconic. I mean I'd attribute the popularity to the one who's there for most of the series, though ppl like each of em for different reasons.


Not to say that she didn't have an impact but rather she wasn't really actively involved or have as many appearances and development as other characters as, say Asuka. And considering Rei's most important part came in EoE I was wondering which Rei was the beloved character in the fandom and why. Didn't mean to diminish her character at all though I just didn't word it that well. :bigeyes:

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Re: Are Rei II and Rei III considered the same characters by fans of evangelion/Rei?

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Postby kuribo-04 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:30 pm

Rei is basically a person with multiple personality disorder.
The initial split triggered by a traumatizing experience in childhood.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
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-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
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Re: Are Rei II and Rei III considered the same characters by fans of evangelion/Rei?

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Postby Berserker » Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:00 am

Kendrix, you really should change your title to defender of Ayanami. I don't think there's anything more to add here, it's a opinion of one whether to take them as the same or different.

The issue regarding her soul is that it's widely believed throughout the fandom that Rei II has the partial soul of Rei I, while the the other part is unit 00's resident soul. When Rei II sacrifices herself with unit 00, it is believed that the soul ultimately merges back together and Rei III has that soul, though there's no visual evidence of the merging. It's just simply theorized. Basically Rei I's soul= Rei III's soul. But soul isn't neccesarily the container/storage module of one's memory and personality, brain is. In this case, Rei III gets Rei II's memory which had backup, slightly vague one since the process isn't utterly perfect.

In my opinion, they're the same character but simply had her body changed. Like we still take the resident soul of unit 01 as Yui. She has her memory and everything except her human body, even she inherited a beast side in her because of the result of being the resident soul. But she's mentally and spiritually still the Yui. Which isn't even the case for Rei. She's biologically and mentally the same person even after body swap with some slight change of personality and memory issues. Though i wholly agree with this-
Kendrix wrote:Some, like me, might have something of a preference for the second one - she's just a very sad character with a very tragic story that has its admirable points & beautiful moments of fleeting warmth.
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Re: Are Rei II and Rei III considered the same characters by fans of evangelion/Rei?

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Postby mrptkv99 » Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:36 am

View Original PostBerserker wrote:In my opinion, they're the same character but simply had her body changed. Like we still take the resident soul of unit 01 as Yui. She has her memory and everything except her human body, even she inherited a beast side in her because of the result of being the resident soul. But she's mentally and spiritually still the Yui. Which isn't even the case for Rei. She's biologically and mentally the same person even after body swap with some slight change of personality and memory issues. Though i wholly agree with this-


That's what I prefer thinking as well, simply because her larger importance comes from the events of EoE and because her character was kind of dropped after episode 6 and I wouldn't like to separate the "more important Rei" from the character I've grown attached to throughout the series though I understand how some may view them as completely different.

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Re: Are Rei II and Rei III considered the same characters by fans of evangelion/Rei?

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Postby Berserker » Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:00 am

mrptkv99 wrote:I wouldn't like to separate the "more important Rei"

That's not my point of view as well. What i meant by agreeing with Kendrix's point of preferring Rei II is that the particular time of Rei's life which we call as Rei II is more approached to fans from an emotional side rather than her time as being named Rei III. It's like someone prefers one's personality and traits more in a certain period of that person's life rather than any other. In conclusion, that certain period is admired more.
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Re: Are Rei II and Rei III considered the same characters by fans of evangelion/Rei?

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Postby dzzthink » Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:02 pm

I quite like the theorized concept of Rei III as having the memories of Rei II, which preserves the continuity of the Rei character. However, objectively speaking the entity of Rei II was vaporized into non-existence and there is no mention of how her soul would become reconstituted into another clone body. The technology is not explained and there is a high degree of subjective fan speculation to make up for actual canon. Understandably, it is comforting for audiences and it has largely been accepted by the majority since no one else has provided an alternative explanation.

A more logical theory is that Rei III's being can be derived from the data kept from Yui, since we know that this used as the basis of the Ayanami series. Reichu recently expounds on this in her analysis of the Eva 3.33 movie if you want to read into this more (https://www.arqacrypha.net/post/secrets ... ies-part-2). The assumption being is that by transferring Yui's soul into eva 01, there is a wealth of computerized data from Unit 01 that can be used to form the collective conscience of a clone. Yui's data includes both psychological data as well as biological data. This can also be construed as being the soul and identity of the Lillith vessel (to make Rei). This parallels some of what is mentioned in episode 20 when Shinji's being was absorbed into Eva 01 and the bridge crew was attempting to rescue Shinji based on what 'data' was available from unit 01 to reform his identity. It is more likely that Yui's data was the major source of Rei III identity and her change in personality is due to the change in Yui in Unit 01 throughout her interaction with Shinji and her time being the soul of an Eva. Yui is still inside unit 01 all these years and has seen much of what is going on. When you create another Rei clone using her conscience at that time in episode 23 she most likely has greater resentment for Gendo than before and is also more sympathetic to Shinji (leading to the events of EoE where she chooses Shinji over Gendo). Rei III is effectively Yui reincarnate at that stage in time.

In short, there was never an attempt to harvest Rei II's data/soul at any point and there was no chance to do this after her death either, leading to the suggestion that in order to actually create Rei clones, you would need to mine Yui's data from unit 1 in its present state, which can lead to a version with a different personality. Thus, Rei I, II and III are not copies of their former versions, but different versions of Yui over time. I generally disagree with the concept of Rei II's soul, which has never been brought up in the series. On the other hand, Yui's soul in unit 1 is actually canon and was brought about by the experiment that allowed her soul to be taken from her human body and transferred into an Eva.

EDIT: However, there is something from the manga that suggests that Rei III could have Rei II memories. In the manga (book 12 and 13) Rei III does revisit the pond where Shinji and she had been to and dips their hand in the water like before. In book 13, after rejecting Gendo, she tells him that his hand isn't the one she remembers. Then during instrumentality, Rei III seems to speak with the mind of Rei II and references a lot of what Rei II had experienced with Shinji (Is the expression on my face the right one for this moment?). For the rebuild movies, it is even vaguer, since Fuyutsuki mentions that Rei is a seele product and doesn't contain any Yui data (https://www.arqacrypha.net/post/secrets ... ies-part-2). Hopefully, the last movie provides more detail, as there are signs that Rei Q may have some further developments.
Last edited by dzzthink on Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:32 am, edited 20 times in total.

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Re: Are Rei II and Rei III considered the same characters by fans of evangelion/Rei?

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Postby Line » Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:51 pm

Yes, to me. But, to be fair, objectively, yes and no :rolleyes: :wink:
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Re: Are Rei II and Rei III considered the same characters by fans of evangelion/Rei?

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Postby orcot » Sat Dec 26, 2020 1:59 am

Evangelion is deliberatley vague meaning viewer interpretation means a lot here. My 2 cents, Rei is basicaly god, and she forms a trinity with Lilith (god aspect) and with her "ghost" (this might be Unit 00, Yui or an other facet of Rei).
From that, you could wonder what the power structure is between these beeings. Orthodox believes would say that the God part is above the other 2 (God is greater than the spirit and the (in this case daughter). Roman believe would say God is equal to the spirit and the daughter. It's your choice what you believe but if we take Yui's word for it (as a potential holy spirit). It's pretty clear Yui sees them as equal.
Then again both Rei and unit 00 don't like the idea and want to be their own seperate thing. But Rei does recognize she is part of a bigger thingthe biggest example probably beeing that Rei III only meets Shinji ones (in the hospital) and Shinji does his best to avoid her aftherwards eventough she is very lonely and want's human contact. She still chooses Shinji over Gendo who at least interacts with Rei III.

So basicaly Rei III choosing Shinji is the clearest indications that they are the same, but calling her out on it would make her very upset (in her cloning blues).

(now ripping of Neil Gaiman who can say it better [I did change it a little for it to make sence], You can see Rei as a sapphire, made of many facets, each facet catches the light in it's own way. It glints and sparkles and flashes uniquely. It would almost be possible to believe that the facet was the jewel; not just a tiny part of it. But then, as we move the jewel another facet cathes the light... Theirs no point. I have no point Save for the jewel and the facets and the light. We see an aspect of the whole. But the facet is not the jewel.)

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Re: Are Rei II and Rei III considered the same characters by fans of evangelion/Rei?

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Postby dzzthink » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:25 pm

There is an interesting scene that Reichu mentions on her blog https://www.arqacrypha.net/post/3-1-tra ... ughts-pt-3 where she states that several distorted effigies of Rei start to emerge from the 10th Angel’s core in Eva 2.22, which seems to suggest their origins from core-material. It may be likely that the Ayanami series could be developed in a similar manner from Eva-01 core, which is also a source of Yui's data. The references we see in the new trailer also show a core-Rei and it would be interesting to see where that leads to.

Therefore, it could be explained that Rei II and Rei Q are similar in terms of features and instincts due to the similar derivation process from Eva-01 core. However, their inherent personalities is more likely to be their own since their 'births' seem to occur at separate points and their differences in their 'souls'. Rei II seems to have the soul of Lillith, while for Rei Q, it is yet to be known (Kaworu's remark in 3.33 seems to suggest it is not complete).

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Re: Are Rei II and Rei III considered the same characters by fans of evangelion/Rei?

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Postby mrptkv99 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:44 pm

View Original Postorcot wrote:Evangelion is deliberatley vague meaning viewer interpretation means a lot here. My 2 cents, Rei is basicaly god, and she forms a trinity with Lilith (god aspect) and with her "ghost" (this might be Unit 00, Yui or an other facet of Rei).
From that, you could wonder what the power structure is between these beeings. Orthodox believes would say that the God part is above the other 2 (God is greater than the spirit and the (in this case daughter). Roman believe would say God is equal to the spirit and the daughter. It's your choice what you believe but if we take Yui's word for it (as a potential holy spirit). It's pretty clear Yui sees them as equal.
Then again both Rei and unit 00 don't like the idea and want to be their own seperate thing. But Rei does recognize she is part of a bigger thingthe biggest example probably beeing that Rei III only meets Shinji ones (in the hospital) and Shinji does his best to avoid her aftherwards eventough she is very lonely and want's human contact. She still chooses Shinji over Gendo who at least interacts with Rei III.

So basicaly Rei III choosing Shinji is the clearest indications that they are the same, but calling her out on it would make her very upset (in her cloning blues).

(now ripping of Neil Gaiman who can say it better [I did change it a little for it to make sence], You can see Rei as a sapphire, made of many facets, each facet catches the light in it's own way. It glints and sparkles and flashes uniquely. It would almost be possible to believe that the facet was the jewel; not just a tiny part of it. But then, as we move the jewel another facet cathes the light... Theirs no point. I have no point Save for the jewel and the facets and the light. We see an aspect of the whole. But the facet is not the jewel.)


That's a great answer thanks! It just seemed to me with reis actions in EoE it would have made more sense if it was Rei II and not a completely different character that barely has appeared and interacted with the rest of the cast. Especially the scene where her and Shinji are merged.

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Re: Are Rei II and Rei III considered the same characters by fans of evangelion/Rei?

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Postby dzzthink » Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:09 am

Although I wasn't sure about the Trinity aspect of Rei's character, I think there is a good point to be made about the spiritual explanation about Rei. I was thinking about what Reichu posted on her blog, which is a good description of this:

'So we can extrapolate that Rei 6, and all other clones like her, are “borrowing” Lilith’s soul through some variation on the “quantum magic” (for lack of better term) phenomenon that first appeared in NGE. In effect, Lilith’s soul is anchored to one specific vessel, but it’s shared between a potentially infinite number of additional bodies. We could also tentatively speculate that sharing the same soul =/= sharing a mind and memories (at least, not by default), and thus every iteration of Rei has the potential to be unique.' (https://www.arqacrypha.net/post/rei-6-t ... -shouted-i)

I am more in favour of a technical explanation but of course with eva there tends to be a mystical element for some events, especially concerning Rei. I also unsure of what to make about this 'splitting' of souls concept but this in itself could be a reference to the 'three in one, one in three' belief in Christinity, so I can't really argue against that logic. This divine aspect would also explain how Rei and Kaworu both appear as the giant Rei lillith and then later in intrumentality. The question is how we are able to pick out Yui data, Lillith magic, Rei personality, clone personality and memory transplantation from this hotpot?
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Re: Are Rei II and Rei III considered the same characters by fans of evangelion/Rei?

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Postby Jäeger » Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:53 pm

View Original Postdzzthink wrote: In effect, Lilith’s soul is anchored to one specific vessel, but it’s shared between a potentially infinite number of additional bodies.


ANIMA vibes here :devil:
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Re: Are Rei II and Rei III considered the same characters by fans of evangelion/Rei?

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Postby Blockio » Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:24 pm

View Original PostJäeger wrote:ANIMA vibes here :devil:

It probably is where Yamashita got the idea from :P
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Re: Are Rei II and Rei III considered the same characters by fans of evangelion/Rei?

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Postby Archer » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:25 pm

Practically speaking? I don't think so. In fanworks, the specific Rei being depicted is rarely specified, and most of the time both Rei II and III are collectively just referred to as "Rei".

Personally, I think she should be viewed as a pair of identical twins, except the second twin doesn't show up until the first one dies. They look the same and have similar personalities and dispositions, but they don't share the same memories and are very much not the same person.

Unrelated to her interpretation in NGE, but the (possibly non-canon) 3.0 "preview" showed 4 Rei clones active at the same time. If multiple conscious Rei clones can co-exist, and none of them retain any direct memories of past clones, then I think that's pretty clear evidence that each Rei is her own individual.

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Re: Are Rei II and Rei III considered the same characters by fans of evangelion/Rei?

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Postby ASW_Canuck » Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:18 am

One hypothesis that ran through my mind is that Rei III's memories have been uploaded to her from the data captured by the mechanism(s) in the Dummy Plug Plant. She seems vague and distant afterwards because she doesn't actually have any memories of her own; to her the uploaded memories are like scenes from a movie she watched, rather than events that actually happened to her. At some point they "stick", but for a while after the upload she's basically drifting in a dissociative fugue state where her own existence doesn't feel real to her.


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