Kendrix wrote:I don't think she was supposed to be genuinely accusing him of sexism, just general annoyedness at one's enemies (that you're already sort of demonizing or at least emotionally distancing yourself from)

I guess I just despise the "men should never hit women" trope, whenever it comes up. In a perfect world, no one would hit anyone, but this isn't a perfect world. So I think that part of gender equality should be allowing both men and women to be treated violently, especially in a life-or-death situation. This isn't the place for me to soapbox though.

That said, she's trying to prevent Fourth Impact so I wouldn't say that lethal force would have been inappropiate/indefensible there

But Shinji was clearly being misled, Asuka should have been able to see it. If she had just talked to Shinji about what was going to happen instead of coming at him with a massive spear and yelling about how she wants to defeat/kill him, Shinji might not have caused Fourth Impact.

"accept your punishment" also sounds like an implied "die" tho. At least its definitely a threat

BusterMachine4 wrote:But Shinji was clearly being misled, Asuka should have been able to see it. If she had just talked to Shinji about what was going to happen instead of coming at him with a massive spear and yelling about how she wants to defeat/kill him, Shinji might not have caused Fourth Impact.

Of course, "everything could have been averted if ppl just talked instead of escalating each other" is probably supposed to be the moral here, but look at the many, many, many examples in real life and history where people DONT do that. That's why it's a common moral in stories or an element in heroic tales in the first place, because it's hard

I doubt Asuka had deescalation training. She's used to giant monsters and remote controlled cyborgs.

That she would be counterproductive & prejudiced there is as much of a "realism feature" as Shinji being panicky and useless throughout the prologue arc.

Y'know, all this talk about who's who at fault for causing Fourth Impact, it makes me wonder where our sympathies are supposed to lie and Anno's attention. Are we supposed to feel sorry for Shinji because of his circumstances, or Willie for trying to save the world against impossible odds? I honestly wonder if Anno was hoping for the audience sympathy to with Wille or Shinji, or rather if it was supposed to come off as both sides being wrong in some way.

Well, going by the people's reaction, if it was supposed to be a "both sides are wrong" or "Willie was right" than that failed, seeing as how the majority of people sympathize with Shinji more.

Qaworu begged him to stop and he didn't. That was his BFF at the time so there's no reason to think that Asuka could have changed his mind.

Also she DID ask him if he wanted to start Third Impact by pulling the spears and he just brushed it off.

ElMariachi wrote:My personal interpretation of Asuka's lines and reaction through the movie is that for all her extra-time "alive" compared to Shinji, she didn't matured that much

I guess the scene in question is also a callback to the aquarium scene where Asuka accuses Toji of being old fashioned for saying men shouldn't cook, but she's showing the same mindset herself. Didn't mature, indeed.

How about "both sides are right and all of this is super tragic"?

IMHO he makes pretty sure we sympathize with both sets of characters.
The random new bridge bunnies are there so WILLE and the "Misato defeats nemesis series & gives everyone hope" scene is there so they doesn't come off too cold;
Shinji is objectively "in the wrong" in the sense that he falls headlong into a trap, but we follow him & get really put into his shoes so we understand why

kboyrulez12345 wrote:Y'know, all this talk about who's who at fault for causing Fourth Impact, it makes me wonder where our sympathies are supposed to lie and Anno's attention. Are we supposed to feel sorry for Shinji because of his circumstances, or Willie for trying to save the world against impossible odds? I honestly wonder if Anno was hoping for the audience sympathy to with Wille or Shinji, or rather if it was supposed to come off as both sides being wrong in some way.

Well, going by the people's reaction, if it was supposed to be a "both sides are wrong" or "Willie was right" than that failed, seeing as how the majority of people sympathize with Shinji more.

We're clearly supposed to sympathize with both WILLE and Shinji, remember that WILLE are the good guys, they are trying to stop SEELE and neo-NERV from killing humanity and to save the world. That doesn't mean that they're supposed to be angels (eh) either, but a big part of Shinji's motivation for going with Kaworu's plan was to be forgiven by the people he thought he wronged, chief among them Misato and Asuka, who are part of WILLE.
And Shinji, for all of his faults, is still a good person trying to do what he can to save and help the people he cares about, but unfortunately he's rapidly under the yoke of people that use this to manipulate him to do their bidding.

There's a reason the most current theory about what will happen in Shin is Shinji mending his relationship with Asuka and Misato and somehow finding a way to help WILLE defeat neo-NERV once and for all.

BusterMachine4 wrote:

Kendrix#904861 wrote:I don't think she was supposed to be genuinely accusing him of sexism, just general annoyedness at one's enemies (that you're already sort of demonizing or at least emotionally distancing yourself from)

I guess I just despise the "men should never hit women" trope, whenever it comes up. In a perfect world, no one would hit anyone, but this isn't a perfect world. So I think that part of gender equality should be allowing both men and women to be treated violently, especially in a life-or-death situation. This isn't the place for me to soapbox though.

That said, she's trying to prevent Fourth Impact so I wouldn't say that lethal force would have been inappropiate/indefensible there

But Shinji was clearly being misled, Asuka should have been able to see it. If she had just talked to Shinji about what was going to happen instead of coming at him with a massive spear and yelling about how she wants to defeat/kill him, Shinji might not have caused Fourth Impact.

Had I been in Shinji I would have slapped her well before the Eva 02 ran out of charge and she jumped off him ready to poke him, although this would be out of Shinji's persona despite his EOE counterpart not hesitating to use a slightly more macabre form of violence Asuka Q is really something really unbearable to me she attacks Shinji and then complains that he doesn't go to help her ElMariachi I agree with you Shinji for sure will have a confrontation with his father and the clash between Eva 01 and Eva 13 could be the main reason that will lead Misato, Asuka and the other members of Wille to trust Shinji again.

Well, I guess we'll have to wait for Shin Eva to see how this all ends, because this is starting to go a little of topic about the new trailer eh?

kboyrulez12345 wrote:Well, I guess we'll have to wait for Shin Eva to see how this all ends, because this is starting to go a little of topic about the new trailer eh?

You are right

@Zusuchan
I agree with some of what you said, but not all of it.
Firstly, I agree that Shinji was in a very fragile state during the events of Air and I'm not judging him as a despicable monster for doing what he did. For me, he was a 14 year old traumatized boy that wanted to find an easy solution to his problems in Asuka. An insecure pearson that was unable to form personal connections and was forced to kill because that's the only value society saw in him.
But this is the thing, expecting unconditional love from Asuka, as if she was a mere doll, did not address what was really torturing him. Shinji couldn't love himself and that was the problem he was trying to escape from. He only understood that after going through Human Instrumentality and rethinking a lot of stuff about himself and the others around him. For me, it was within Lilith that he finally went: "No, I'm tired of running away from my problems. I'm tired of coming up with simple and unrealistic solutions for them. I'm gonna accepted myself and reality from now on."
I think that Asuka went through a very similar path throughout that movie as well. In the end, she not only came out of it more willing to accept herself, but also to accept Shinji, with all of his insecurities and shortcomings, which after all are very similar to hers. Basically, she stopped to project herself into him, I believe.
Anyways, their relationship is really intriguing and way more complex that I could ever hope to explain in a simple post. For me, the original version of "Everything You've Ever Dreamed For", written by Anno, is the best way to describe their bound in just a few lines.

I hope you're not talking about the original lyrics for EYED.



Depressed Anno was ascended.

BernardoCairo wrote:@Zusuchan
I agree with some of what you said, but not all of it.
Firstly, I agree that Shinji was in a very fragile state during the events of Air and I'm not judging him as a despicable monster for doing what he did. For me, he was a 14 year old traumatized boy that wanted to find an easy solution to his problems in Asuka. An insecure pearson that was unable to form personal connections and was forced to kill because that's the only value society saw in him.
But this is the thing, expecting unconditional love from Asuka, as if she was a mere doll, did not address what was really torturing him. Shinji couldn't love himself and that was the problem he was trying to escape from. He only understood that after going through Human Instrumentality and rethinking a lot of stuff about himself and the others around him. For me, it was within Lilith that he finally went: "No, I'm tired of running away from my problems. I'm tired of coming up with simple and unrealistic solutions for them. I'm gonna accepted myself and reality from now on."
I think that Asuka went through a very similar path throughout that movie as well. In the end, she not only came out of it more willing to accept herself, but also to accept Shinji, with all of his insecurities and shortcomings, which after all are very similar to hers. Basically, she stopped to project herself into him, I believe.
Anyways, their relationship is really intriguing and way more complex that I could ever hope to explain in a simple post. For me, the original version of "Everything You've Ever Dreamed For", written by Anno, is the best way to describe their bound in just a few lines.

You are really right that Shinji is not a monster but he was wrong to expect unconditional love from Asuka ... At that moment he was pretty much crazy about everything he had to go through and was very confused about himself and everyone else ... Great pity not to have official confirmation that it was really Asuka or a personification of the hatred Shinji feels for himself and his inability to feel accepted by others .. Anno's original song certainly better described Shinji and Asuka's relationship but for the Third Impact Komm Susser Tod was perfect, the text makes you understand not only the state of mind of Shinji but also the impotence of the entire human race to be able to remedy their mistakes unfortunately often leading to people with a weak heart to commit suicide ... I think without Komm Susser Tod but instead with Everything You've Ever Dreamed the scene where anyone would have seen their loved one before turning into LCL would have been too much overshadowed by Shinji and Asuka ... Komm Susser Tod seemed to me a song more suited to EOE because in my humble opinion it also focused on Gendo and his regret of losing Yui and having everything wrong with Shinji ..

I know that I've been derailing this thread for a while and I swear I will stop, but yeah. I was talking specifically about this version. It's so sad and beautiful at the same time... Perfectly encapsulates Shinji and Asuka's relationship. I prefer this lyrics over the english ones.
About the whole "3.0 Asuka discussion" that has been taking place, I think it's stupid. Misato and Asuka did wrong by not explaining everything to Shinji. But, as I said before, I can understand how stressful the situation must have been for them. He was also trying to end the world again and I can see why this would bother those two (especially after having just saved him).
Shinji was also being a brat. But I can completely understand his actions. He literally woke up in the worst world I can possibly imagine and treated like garbage. Trying to find an easy solution to all of his problems is the natural thing I would expect from a 14 year old.
These are tired people that have been fighting a bloody war for many years. I don't see any reason to hate on any of them. I feel sorry for everyone.

Yes, you're right, let's forget for the moment who's to blame (they were all screwed by Gendo in reality) and let's focus on the trailer again..

kboyrulez12345 wrote:If it's any consolation, the Funimation dub, the one revived by Khara(I know a lot of people here don't like Funimation's dub, but considering Khara supervised this one should be enough for consideration) has Asuka say "lie down and accept your punishment", with no mention of killing Shinji.

And just to emphasize again, this was the one that was supervised by Khara itself.

This is weird, because the subbed line still reads "Let me kill you." Not sure what's going on there. (And there are two versions of the subs! The "Theatrical Version," and the "Home Video" version, the latter being the Khara approved version. Both feature the "Let me kill you" line.) I don't know if the subs are simply not trusting the performances of the Japanese voice actors enough room to interpret the more specific elements of the line for the audience or not. For example, Misato's little "Choutchi" linguistic quirk was never given an English equivalent in any of the existing English translations of Evangelion, but Kotono Mitsuishi's performance of the lines is always exquisite to the point that even foreign audiences can hear how informal and playful she's being whenever she uses the word. (Kinda like whenever I use the word "Fantabulous!" It's a meaningless combination of "Fantastic" and "Fabulous" that I use whenever I'm playfully expressing excitement or pleasure with something. I didn't use this word throughout the entire year of 2020.) I feel the same translational room could have been given to Asuka's line in Eva Q. She should probably have been given a line equally vague but better defined by Yūko Miyamura's performance of the line and the animation of the scene itself. (Something like "Go down quietly," sounds best to my humble sensibilities.)

In the end, though, I might just be a nitpicking.

@FXArmaros98
I always interpreted "Koom, Süsser Tod" as an audio representation of what Asuka was felling during the Third Impact. I have some arguments to back that up and I know that, since Shinji and Asuka share a lot of the same problems, it is completely valid to see it as a representation of his point of view as well. But that's completely off topic, so I'm not gonna dive in it.
About "Everything You've Ever Dreamed For", as far as I'm concerned, it was never suppose to replace "Komm, Süsser Tod" or anything. It was meant for a deleted scene that would have taken place after "I Need You". It was going to show Unit 01 destroying the moon, or something. But I could be wrong (I read about this in only one place, many years ago).
Anyways, that's also out off topic! OMG! This was the last time, I swear!

I knew I could track down Joseki's email. This should clear up any confusions.

post/855205/Translation-of-Evangelion-30/#855205

Hello xxx,

I can answer your question pretty quickly.

Below is the original base translation (the first basic translation of the entire script) for the line in question:


0823 Asuka
おとなしくやられろ！ガキシンジィ!!
Just give up and drop dead, Brat Shinji!

やられろ
can have multiple meaning in Japanese.
殺る kill
犯る rape/fuck
やっつける defeat
are the most common meanings in this context.

The Funimation translation was supervised by myself.

The same line was delivered as the following:
Just lie down and take your punishment! Quit fighting!


The sub utilized:
Shut up and let me
kill you, Brat Shinji!

While the meanings are different, I felt that the audience would be able to appreciate that Asuka's "let me kill you" has multiple meanings.

In the course of our lives, there are moments when people employ rash statements in moments of passion.

This was one such circumstance.

I will also note that:
Shut up and let me
kill you, Brat Shinji!
--was also utilized for the international film festival submission version of Eva 3.0, which was a translation that I was responsible as well.

I hope this answers your questions.

Best regards,
Dan Kanemitsu

@ BernardoCairo every person has his own opinion it is impossible to always agree on everything... However we are straying too far from the main topic of this thread, I wouldn't want to sound too rude but can I ask if anyone has any theories they'd like to share about one or more of the images featured in the trailer? I ask because now I have run out of hypotheses ...

I agree, man. But, honestly, I have nothing else to add. I could spend the whole day here creating absurd theories, but they would be just that. Theories.
I mean, I could point out that in the new poster Asuka is not wearing an eye patch. The "human characters" are also a little bit distant from the angels. Does that mean anything? I don't know. It's just a poster hahahahaha
So, I think I'm done looking for things in this trailer. I'm just gonna to wait and see how everything plays out (amazingly, I hope)!

BernardoCairo wrote:I agree, man. But, honestly, I have nothing else to add. I could spend the whole day here creating absurd theories, but they would be just that. Theories.
I mean, I could point out that in the new poster Asuka is not wearing an eye patch. The "human characters" are also a little bit distant from the angels. Does that mean anything? I don't know. It's just a poster hahahahaha
So, I think I'm done looking for things in this trailer. I'm just gonna to wait and see how everything plays out (amazingly, I hope)!

Yes, you're right on the poster, official merchandise can always play tricks. We have exceeded 30 pages ... I think it is normal that many of us have run out of ideas .. However if we have to say it all Shinji, Asuka and Mari in theory they should not even be considered human anymore obviously not at the level of Kaworu and Rei .. I would like if anyone has any other hypothesis about the similarities between Nadia and Rebuild ...