Shin Eva - New Trailer (12-24-20)

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Re: Shin Eva - New Trailer (12-24-20)

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Postby Settie » Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:33 pm

NTE Kaworu is a perfect example of the road to hell being paved with good intentions. He may not have outright lied to Shinji but he definitely didn't tell him the whole truth, just parts of it that would facilitate Shinjis cooperation.

What i'm wondering is if that ship battle is taking place inside the doors of guf? Cause when wunder 2 is breaking through that white "barrier" it certainly looks like the subspace thing the nemesis series were hiding at the start of 3.0.

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Postby ShinjiStranglesAsuka » Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:36 pm

He's definitely lying by omission. There's a lot of shit Shinji should have been aware of before embarking on their little doomsday mission. How much of the lying being intentionally malicious though is yet to be determined. I don't buy "evil Kaworu" but I don't think he's some perfect little savior either.

And I've never seen any Matrix past the first, maybe I should...

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Re: Shin Eva - New Trailer (12-24-20)

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Postby Kendrix » Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:42 am

I don't see how Kaworu said anything incorrect.

EVA 01 was clearly involved - the FoIs are carbon copies of it, and the way everyone at WILLE acts corroborates his statements.
Alas poor Kaworu! I knew him well...
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Postby BlueBasilisk » Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:31 am

^Kaworu neglects to tell Shinji anything about Seele or about the 12th Angel managing to make contact with Lilith, which Shinji was told in 1.0 would cause the Third Impact.

I thought in the past that we was lying, but of late I've re-evaluated the things he tells Shinji and while that is definitely a significant omission on his part, as well as him neglecting to mention anything about Seele, I don't feel like he's deliberately lying to Shinji so much as he doesn't actually know what's going on either. For instance he seems to have no idea that Seele have revised their plans in a way that involves killing him, that the Human Instrumentality Project is Seele's baby, or that they're working with Gendo in order to carry out their agenda.

Most of what he tells Shinji is within the wheelhouse of the truth, but it's also very short of the full scope of events which leads the both of them to incorrect conclusions and ultimately right into Seele's trap.
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Re: Shin Eva - New Trailer (12-24-20)

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Postby BusterMachine4 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:44 am

View Original PostKendrix wrote:I don't see how Kaworu said anything incorrect.

EVA 01 was clearly involved - the FoIs are carbon copies of it, and the way everyone at WILLE acts corroborates his statements.

Well, we know Shinji was part of it somehow, otherwise the movie wouldn't make any sense. But there are a lot of things shown as a result of Near Third Impact that seemingly weren't directly caused by Shinji's actions. The surface of Earth looked completely fine in 2.0's post-credits scene, with no red tint or random crosses in the ground. And there's also the weirdness involving Unit 6, the 12th Angel, and Lilith, which seemingly can't be explained by Shinji's actions alone.

This leads to the logical assumption that Kaworu wasn't telling Shinji the full story, although I think fans exaggerate it somewhat when they completely dismiss everything he said. I remember reading a theory from a couple years ago, where someone was speculating that Near Third Impact never actually happened, and that everywhere other than Tokyo-3 is fine. I think Paris suffering from the same problems as Tokyo-3 in 3.0+1.0's opening scene pretty much destroyed that theory.

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Re: Shin Eva - New Trailer (12-24-20)

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Postby intermediateO » Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:09 am

View Original PostBusterMachine4 wrote:Well, we know Shinji was part of it somehow, otherwise the movie wouldn't make any sense.


Q? Makes sense? What a bold assumption.

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Re: Shin Eva - New Trailer (12-24-20)

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Postby Cookie H Wilson » Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:27 am

View Original PostJäeger wrote:There cannot be a winter flashback

365 days of summer after 2I....

In Japan
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Re: Shin Eva - New Trailer (12-24-20)

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Postby FXArmaros98 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:39 am

View Original PostBlueBasilisk wrote:^Kaworu neglects to tell Shinji anything about Seele or about the 12th Angel managing to make contact with Lilith, which Shinji was told in 1.0 would cause the Third Impact.

I thought in the past that we was lying, but of late I've re-evaluated the things he tells Shinji and while that is definitely a significant omission on his part, as well as him neglecting to mention anything about Seele, I don't feel like he's deliberately lying to Shinji so much as he doesn't actually know what's going on either. For instance he seems to have no idea that Seele have revised their plans in a way that involves killing him, that the Human Instrumentality Project is Seele's baby, or that they're working with Gendo in order to carry out their agenda.

Most of what he tells Shinji is within the wheelhouse of the truth, but it's also very short of the full scope of events which leads the both of them to incorrect conclusions and ultimately right into Seele's trap.
I also believe that Eva 01 was responsible for the alleged transformation of people into Infinity Failures and the spread of Barrier L, but it seems implied instead that the 12th Angel and Mark 06 are responsible for that headless Lilith, the skulls on the floor in the Terminal Dogma and those Faliments of the Infinite who were trying to cling to Lilith's head ... Regarding the current state of the moon I have no idea ... Kaworu may have gotten from SEELE's order to start the resurrection of Lilith by merging the Mark 06 with her but the 12th Angel got in the way leading Kaworu to be forced to use the 2 spears to pause everything until Shinji arrives and new orders. .

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Postby GhostlyOcam » Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:41 am

Made another comparison gif and this time with these shots. Not only the one in Shin Eva is a perfect recreation of the similar moment during Ramiel battle in 1.0, but the art style really looks like something straight out of 1.0/2.0, especially since Shin is emulating the 3.0 style so the art shift really sticks out for me.
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Postby FXArmaros98 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:51 am

View Original PostGhostlyOcam wrote:Made another comparison gif and this time with these shots. Not only the one in Shin Eva is a perfect recreation of the similar moment during Ramiel battle in 1.0, but the art style really looks like something straight out of 1.0/2.0, especially since Shin is emulating the 3.0 style so the art shift really sticks out for me.
Image
There are people who believe that Shinji may have gone back to the times of the first 2 films .... For the moment I would like to avoid making even crazier theory, but in any case we don't know what is inside the Porte de Guf, maybe they are some sort of space-time conduit that only the quantum forms of Rei and Kaworu can use without taking too many risks?

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Postby GhostlyOcam » Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:59 am

I won't indulge too much in these time travel theories, but I think it's a really cool artistic detail. Not only the shot composition and Shinji's movements are similar, but they even emulate the 1.0 style because the it's a 1.0 reenactment.
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Postby FXArmaros98 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:07 am

View Original PostGhostlyOcam wrote:I won't indulge too much in these time travel theories, but I think it's a really cool artistic detail. Not only the shot composition and Shinji's movements are similar, but they even emulate the 1.0 style because the it's a 1.0 reenactment.
A reference to 1.0 does not seem absurd in my opinion ... 3.0 + 1.0 and if instead of Thrice Upon a Time it was something like You Can (Not) Redo + You Are (Not) Alone ... Maybe Shinji will try to fix them all his mistakes but finally understand the lesson and grow up ...

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Re: Shin Eva - New Trailer (12-24-20)

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Postby BernardoCairo » Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:36 am

View Original PostGhostlyOcam wrote:I won't indulge too much in these time travel theories, but I think it's a really cool artistic detail. Not only the shot composition and Shinji's movements are similar, but they even emulate the 1.0 style because the it's a 1.0 reenactment.

Honestly, I don't understand the logic behind the people who really want to see time travel in this movie. Usually, messing around with cronos creates more problems than it solves. I can put up with this kind of madness in Dragon Ball, for example (a manga that doesn't take itself seriously and focuses on battles and comedy). But in Evangelion, I don't know if something good would come out.
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Postby FXArmaros98 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:47 am

View Original PostBernardoCairo wrote:
View Original PostGhostlyOcam#904149 wrote:I won't indulge too much in these time travel theories, but I think it's a really cool artistic detail. Not only the shot composition and Shinji's movements are similar, but they even emulate the 1.0 style because the it's a 1.0 reenactment.

Honestly, I don't understand the logic behind the people who really want to see time travel in this movie. Usually, messing around with cronos creates more problems than it solves. I can put up with this kind of madness in Dragon Ball, for example (a manga that doesn't take itself seriously and focuses on battles and comedy). But in Evangelion, I don't know if something good would come out.

The reason why some people believe in time travel could be due to the constant advocacy of the loop theory, the movie title and the poster ... A Youtuber from my country did some sort of video analysis and theory, he said that for he the tracks on which Shinji was standing in the poster were of the paths to travel, or that each track could represent the road that the Shinji of other universes (Anime, Manga and Spin.Off) had chosen to follow and that Rebuild Shinji did not had yet found its destination. The Youtuber concluded the video by saying that in 3.0 + 1.0 he expected a scene similar to that of Ep.26 where Shinji had a normal school life, according to him in the film Rebuild Shinji could have a vision where he comes into contact with others Shinji ..

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Postby JoelcrNeto » Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:59 am

They also use the international title “Thrice Upon a Time” as evidence, which coincidentally is the same name as a British sci-fi time travel book. And in the Japanese title there's a symbol of musical repetition, which is interpreted as a loop, a return to 1.0.

I also don't believe in the loop and sequel theory.
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Postby FXArmaros98 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:05 am

View Original PostJoelcrNeto wrote:They also use the international title “Thrice Upon a Time” as evidence, which coincidentally is the same name as a British sci-fi time travel book. And in the Japanese title at the end a symbol of musical repetition is used. Which is interpreted as a loop, a return to 1.0.

I also don't believe in the loop and sequel theory.

Maybe I went crazy but I can swear that in the trailer in some scenes Shinji looks similar to that of 3.0 while in others he has a more similar design than that of 1.0...

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Postby JoelcrNeto » Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:12 am

^
Honestly, the design difference between 2.0 and 3.0 is not big as people think. So these similarities are normal, in the scenes comparison that GhostlyOcam did is a huge example.

EDIT: there is also a design difference between 1.0 and 2.0, but it is more imperceptible.
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Postby FXArmaros98 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:23 am

View Original PostJoelcrNeto wrote:^
Honestly, the design difference between 2.0 and 3.0 is not big as people think. So these similarities are normal, in the scenes comparison that GhostlyOcam did is a huge example.

EDIT: there is also a design difference between 1.0 and 2.0, but it is more imperceptible.

Shinji and Asuka's hair is slightly different from 2.0 to 3.0, one thing I noticed is that Shinji at the end of 3.0 have brown hair while now he has black hair again .. With Asuka and Kaworu it often happens in official merchandise and in various artworks, sometimes Kaworu have white hair other times he has silver hair, while Asuka like Fujiko Mine from Lupin goes from being blonde, redhead and light brown...

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Postby The_Max » Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:53 am

View Original PostJoelcrNeto wrote:They also use the international title “Thrice Upon a Time” as evidence, which coincidentally is the same name as a British sci-fi time travel book. And in the Japanese title there's a symbol of musical repetition, which is interpreted as a loop, a return to 1.0.

I also don't believe in the loop and sequel theory.


In the book "thrice upon a time" the only thing that travels through time is the messages sent with a certain machine. This "messages" thing matches with Kaworu words in 3.33:

01:24:37 {Kaworu} Even if your soul disappears, your hopes and curses remain in this world.
01:24:43 {Kaworu} Your will roams the world as information and gradually changes.
01:24:48 {Kaworu} In time, even your very self is altered.


In the book "thrice upon a time" the messages coming from other epochs result in changes in the present but certain things never change.
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Postby FXArmaros98 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:59 am

View Original PostThe_Max wrote:
View Original PostJoelcrNeto#904158 wrote:They also use the international title “Thrice Upon a Time” as evidence, which coincidentally is the same name as a British sci-fi time travel book. And in the Japanese title there's a symbol of musical repetition, which is interpreted as a loop, a return to 1.0.

I also don't believe in the loop and sequel theory.


In the book "thrice upon a time" the only thing that travels through time is the messages sent with a certain machine. This "messages" thing matches with Kaworu words in 3.33:

01:24:37 {Kaworu} Even if your soul disappears, your hopes and curses remain in this world.
01:24:43 {Kaworu} Your will roams the world as information and gradually changes.
01:24:48 {Kaworu} In time, even your very self is altered.


In the book "thrice upon a time" the messages coming from other epochs result in changes in the present but certain things never change.
So the messages that Shinji should receive from Kaworu can help him to grow and save the world? :huh: It doesn't seem such a surreal scenario to me ...


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