Evangelion ANIMA (general)

For talking about all other entries in the Evangelion franchise: from the various manga and video games to merchandising and various video/audio releases.

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Re: Evangelion ANIMA (general)

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Postby BlueBasilisk » Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:24 am

The blue-haired alien chick looks very similar to Rei, too. Rei doesn't have long hair in Anima, but lop it off and...

What happens in Anima isn't a time loop, as the flow of time constantly moves forward, but it's not not really reincarnation either.
SPOILER: Show
When Armaros destroys the world and creates the new one, he uses the Ark to reboot the Earth to where it was some 20,000 years in the past to begin the new cycle. The Ark contains all the bio-data of every lifeform that's ever existed on Earth, so even though the world is being restarted before human society came about, it's indicated that all of the same people will exist in each incarnation of the world. Shinji, Asuka, Rei, Misato and Ritsuko existed in the previous version of the world, they exist in the current of the world, and it's taken as a matter of fact that there's going to be a Shinji in the next incarnation of the world that Armaros is trying to create too.

They compare it to loading an old save file from a video game. The Ark essentially works as a back-up drive to restore data after the system is reformatted. That's how two Shinjis are able to exist simultaneously. The one that was Armaros is from tens of thousands of years in the past and is a separate individual from the present Shinji, and the next Shinji would likewise be different.
Someday I hope that we'll be reunited if that is what's destined to be. Perhaps we'll discover that elusive bible. And then we will finally be free!

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Re: Evangelion ANIMA (general)

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Postby Jäeger » Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:18 am

View Original PostBlueBasilisk wrote:The blue-haired alien chick looks very similar to Rei, too. Rei doesn't have long hair in Anima, but lop it off and...

What happens in Anima isn't a time loop, as the flow of time constantly moves forward, but it's not not really reincarnation either.
SPOILER: Show
When Armaros destroys the world and creates the new one, he uses the Ark to reboot the Earth to where it was some 20,000 years in the past to begin the new cycle. The Ark contains all the bio-data of every lifeform that's ever existed on Earth, so even though the world is being restarted before human society came about, it's indicated that all of the same people will exist in each incarnation of the world. Shinji, Asuka, Rei, Misato and Ritsuko existed in the previous version of the world, they exist in the current of the world, and it's taken as a matter of fact that there's going to be a Shinji in the next incarnation of the world that Armaros is trying to create too.

They compare it to loading an old save file from a video game. The Ark essentially works as a back-up drive to restore data after the system is reformatted. That's how two Shinjis are able to exist simultaneously. The one that was Armaros is from tens of thousands of years in the past and is a separate individual from the present Shinji, and the next Shinji would likewise be different.


Yeah, I understand what you have explained. Maybe I'm talking more about the loop theory that links NGE and NTE, because there is no reset after EOE : we know what happens after 3I, is what gives sense to the movie. That's where reincarnations get inside the game. Or parallel universes. Or who knows what, this is not the place for that debate :D

About an scene from vol.4

SPOILER: Show
A heavenly place full of....birds and petals? A woman, a man and an snake

The garden of Eden? :D


My god, I have watched Iconic Field again. Yeah, that's Anima. THE FUCKING BOW. And those are Shinji without ponytal and Asuka with short hair, no mistake here. The blue haired girl shares with Rei only the color, she doesn't look a lot like her (unless she is a clone of the MC's mother, too :D ), but the designs of the couple are almost the same.[/quote]

Image
Last edited by Jäeger on Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby FXArmaros98 » Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:51 am

Thank you so much for answering my questions BlueBasilisk but I have to ask you some more because I am very curious and there is still something I have not fully understood:
SPOILER: Show
After Asuka / Eva give life to the new eva thanks the data that she absorbed from the Ark at the end of the story Shinji and Eva 01 are they still the same being split into 2 bodies or did he finally get his heart back?How is Shinji with Asuka and Gendo at the end of the story? What do you know about Lucretius' spear and the World Tree? If ANIMA Toji used Bardiel's power do you think Asuka Shikinami in the last movie could do something like this?/spoiler] [spoiler]Regarding the story that ANIMA Shinji is the snake, I remembered a thread about Rebuilds where members of this forum point out that the SEELE Rebuild symbol has a snake and both Lilith's corpse and the infinity failures have filaments. similar in fact has snakes ... Do you believe that even in Rebuild Shinji it can be something like a snake and that this can have a connection with its red eyes?Kaworu said the birds have already gone to the next world? Well in the short film Until You Come To Me Shinji and the viewer before seeing a Rei Quantic notice a flock of seagulls ... How the hell is it possible that in the world after the fourth impact there can be seagulls? Also maybe could you give the link for translated parts of volume 5 and the illustration of Shinji, Asuka,Toji,Kensuke and the Ayanamis together watching the stars together if you can?
Forgive me BlueBasilisk for too many questions

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Postby BlueBasilisk » Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:13 am

View Original PostFXArmaros98 wrote:Thank you so much for answering my questions BlueBasilisk but I have to ask you some more because I am very curious and there is still something I have not fully understood:
SPOILER: Show
After Asuka / Eva give life to the new eva thanks the data that she absorbed from the Ark at the end of the story Shinji and Eva 01 are they still the same being split into 2 bodies or did he finally get his heart back?How is Shinji with Asuka and Gendo at the end of the story? What do you know about Lucretius' spear and the World Tree? If ANIMA Toji used Bardiel's power do you think Asuka Shikinami in the last movie could do something like this?/spoiler] [spoiler]Regarding the story that ANIMA Shinji is the snake, I remembered a thread about Rebuilds where members of this forum point out that the SEELE Rebuild symbol has a snake and both Lilith's corpse and the infinity failures have filaments. similar in fact has snakes ... Do you believe that even in Rebuild Shinji it can be something like a snake and that this can have a connection with its red eyes?Kaworu said the birds have already gone to the next world? Well in the short film Until You Come To Me Shinji and the viewer before seeing a Rei Quantic notice a flock of seagulls ... How the hell is it possible that in the world after the fourth impact there can be seagulls? Also maybe could you give the link for translated parts of volume 5 and the illustration of Shinji, Asuka,Toji,Kensuke and the Ayanamis together watching the stars together if you can?
Forgive me BlueBasilisk for too many questions


To answer your questions as best I can:
SPOILER: Show
1. As far as I know they're still the same being
2. I'm not sure as the very final chapter wasn't one of the ones translated and Gendo only briefly appears in one
3. The Spear of Lucretius was made by Shinji out of some dirt or something like that. That's all I know about it besides Mari tossing it out into space when she goes to the Apple's Core at the end
4. No. The 9th Angel is dead and has no biological influence on Asuka. We are told from the beginning that Bardiel is still alive, which is why Toji has a prosthetic leg.
5. The serpent in Seele's emblem is symbolic of the story of the Garden of Eden. I don't believe Shinji is literally a snake but I do believe he is part of Adam.
6. Yes, Anima Kaworu says that birds have the ability to transcend time and have already left for the next world. The Seagulls in Until You Come to Me would obviously be from a part of the world that isn't corrupted, as he sees Rei near a pool of fresh water. There are also plants sprouting in the GeoFront and they encounter a cat along the tracks in one of the calendars.
7. Here's the cover illustration:
Image

and here's the link to the translated bits from Volume 5 (under Part 3). They're just fragments and nearly incomprehensible though: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TTN ... 4bIYZzdGFY
Someday I hope that we'll be reunited if that is what's destined to be. Perhaps we'll discover that elusive bible. And then we will finally be free!

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Postby FXArmaros98 » Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:21 am

Thank you, well now I have theory:
SPOILER: Show
If thanks to the ark can exist 2 Shinji who are considered different beings, is it possible that in the Rebuild the tombs on the moon belong to the Kaworu of the previous worlds? I remember that in an interview, Kaworu's Japanese voice actor said that Hideaki Anno gave him a letter telling him who Kaworu and Shinji were in Rebuild

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Re: Evangelion ANIMA (general)

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Postby Zusuchan » Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:45 am

SPOILER: Show
No, the tombs on the Moon don't belong to the Kaworus of the "previous worlds" as far as we know. Anno and other people close to the production of the new films have said many times that NTE is divorced from other Eva works.


Also, FXArmaros98, I deleted a previous double post of yours. Since I'm already replying to you here and the post is quite up, I'll just say it here: please do not double post unless you consider it absolutely necessary or a long time has passed from when you published your post. (I'd say around five days is enough.) If you want to add something, just edit your post. Thank you.

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Postby FXArmaros98 » Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:30 am

Thanks for have delete my older post
SPOILER: Show
supporting Kaworu's tombs on the moon and the loop theory I can only say that in an interview the Japanese voice actor of Kaworu said that Kaworu in Rebuild has known Shinji from various cycles

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Postby Zusuchan » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:10 am

No problem!

SPOILER: Show
The translated interview actually falters in the aspect you mentioned. It's been pointed out that "iterations" would probably be a better world than "cycles". Most likely it was meant in a meta, franchise sense. Like I said, Anno himself has said NTE is its own work that stands separately from the other Eva works, by which he meant that it has no literal, in-universe connections. Furthermore, seeing as how much of Q was about the impossibility of going back in time, I think showing it can happen would lead to certain problems in terms of the deeper story and themes/messages.

Furthermore, in the interview Kaworu's VA Ishida said:

Even if they talk about different things, the feelings Kaworu has for Ikari Shinji… they won't change. I knew the world was different this time, but, on top of that, I was worried about how to best approach Ikari Shinji this time so that everyone would understand that. That was a high hurdle. I was thinking about how to handle it from the very beginning. How should Nagisa Kaworu be after he's accumulated several different cycles in his past? And Eva itself has a very precise strike-zone, to get it just like it should be. I couldn't lose sight of that.

I boldened certain parts. I think this makes clear that what Ishida meant by talking about "iterations" and "cycles" is really the meta aspect of the whole thing. There are other times during the interview where he pretty explicitly talks about "Rebuild's Shinji" and so forth.

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Postby Kendrix » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:48 am

* waiting for volume 4 to wind up on the internets & volume 5 to show up *
At this rate I might actually buy it but it'll probably take a month to arrive.
I have surely blown more money on things that were just "to sate my curiosity"
Alas poor Kaworu! I knew him well...
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- Good faith Analysis of Mari
- Finish ep 8 commentary

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Postby BlueBasilisk » Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:54 pm

I buy mine digitally through BookWalker's global store and they're on Kindle too. I would have bought physical copies but I already own the Japanese books digitally and in paperback since I never imagined they'd get translated. Didn't want to quadruple dip! :lol:
Someday I hope that we'll be reunited if that is what's destined to be. Perhaps we'll discover that elusive bible. And then we will finally be free!

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Postby FXArmaros98 » Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:56 pm

Here are some possible spoilers on the last page of ANIMA which I found on old 4chan threads Note (Until the translation of the fifth volume is published they are not to be considered truthful)
SPOILER: Show
It seems that the last chapter of ANIMA published in 2013 has pushed the Japanese fanbase on 2chan to believe that ANIMA and the Rebuilds are connected or not due to this rumour: it seems that Kaworu at the end of the story promises Shinji that he would return from him after saving the Shinji of the future worlds, and that on the last page there was a sort of dream / reality sequence created by ANIMAShinji where he and Kaworu are together with no one else on an island and that scene is a sort of prequel of Rebuilds but there were also those who considered the Kaworu Rebuild a separate character from that of ANIMA and also Yamashita would have declared that ANIMA is to be considered the third world ...
Please don't ask me for a link as I would struggle too much to search the threads again

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Postby Jäeger » Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:37 pm

View Original PostFXArmaros98 wrote:Here are some possible spoilers on the last page of ANIMA which I found on old 4chan threads Note (Until the translation of the fifth volume is published they are not to be considered truthful)
SPOILER: Show
It seems that the last chapter of ANIMA published in 2013 has pushed the Japanese fanbase on 2chan to believe that ANIMA and the Rebuilds are connected or not due to this rumour: it seems that Kaworu at the end of the story promises Shinji that he would return from him after saving the Shinji of the future worlds, and that on the last page there was a sort of dream / reality sequence created by ANIMAShinji where he and Kaworu are together with no one else on an island and that scene is a sort of prequel of Rebuilds but there were also those who considered the Kaworu Rebuild a separate character from that of ANIMA and also Yamashita would have declared that ANIMA is to be considered the third world ...
Please don't ask me for a link as I would struggle too much to search the threads again


After reading the four volumes that sounds like bullshit, even for Anima standars. Just wait until the oficial release.

And, by the way

SPOILER: Show
I like think about NTE as a separate continuity. Even if there are cycles, those have to take place in the NTE universeand not connected with other works, NGE included
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Postby FXArmaros98 » Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:14 pm

Even before Rebuilds were announced, in the various games of the Super Robot Wars saga Kaworu often said things that made it implied that he remembered events from older games even if they weren't prequels leading him to be accused of being a time looper by the fans ... I mostly support the multiverse instead of the time loop ... The only thing I wrote that seemed believable to me too is that the Japanese fans on 2chan argued about whether ANIMA and the Rebuilds were connected or not. ..
SPOILER: Show
Super Robot Wars X-Ω is a multiverse in which despite of there are the Rebuilds as a representative of the Evangelion series held a special event where exclusive ANIMA units such as Super Evangelion, Evangelion Unit 01 Type F and Evangelion Unit 02 Type II have become playable. Furthermore, it seems that Anno himself in a radio interview in 96 said that the anime was like a video game with a multiple ending and that EOE and Ep25-26 are two different scenarios, which is supported by a book by gainax ... Maybe ANIMA, the manga and the anime are not connected to each other with the loop but through the multiverse, and the Rebuild is the only universe to have a time loop where there have been worlds similar to that of the anime.
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Postby Jäeger » Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:21 pm

View Original PostFXArmaros98 wrote:Well Jeager even before Rebuilds were announced, in the various games of the Super Robot Wars saga Kaworu often said things that made it implied that he remembered events from older games even if they weren't prequels leading him to be accused of being a time looper by the fans ... I mostly support the multiverse over the time loop ... The only thing I wrote that seemed believable to me too is that the Japanese fans on 2chan argued about whether ANIMA and the Rebuilds were connected or not when the last chapter was out in the 2013.


Not even multiverse...many succesful franchises have more than one continuity, it's just a way to grab more cash. As I've said before, dont overthink things too much as usual, the simplest answer is the most accurate one.

And SRW is the king of puns towards any anime who joins the party.

I regret losing the translation of one of the evangelion endings, which was quite funny. I recall it was about the children (Shinji, Asuka, Hikari, Touji & Kensuke) talking about their new life after the battles had ended.
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Postby FXArmaros98 » Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:05 pm

SPOILER: Show
Both the voice of the ark and Kaworu have said that birds can fly through space-time to reach future worlds right? If I'm not mistaken in the song of the third impact that Shinji unleashes to recover Rei and in the song of the Dummy System that almost kills Asuka there was a phrase like flying free like birds. I don't want to say that ANIMA and the Rebuilds are really connected by this, but if we face the reality it is a fact that the 2 series share many similarities, due to the fact that Yamashita before start to writing ANIMA have received from Anno in person some spoilers about the Rebuilds' possible plot ... Maybe the time-traveling birds are an idea shared by Anno and Yamashita that could appear in the last film.

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Postby Blockio » Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:31 pm

Yamashita definitely took a peek at Rebuild's cliffnotes/perhaps discarded ideas when writing Anima
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Postby FXArmaros98 » Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:41 pm

All I know is that ANIMA was born from Anno's desire to have a story more like Gundam and in the 2004 he asked to Yamashita if he wanted to write a What If story as a continuation of the original anime, and then confess to him some future plans for the Franchise... It seems that both ANIMA and Rebuilds use both old and unused ideas from the anime and new ideas...

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Postby Kendrix » Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:19 pm

View Original PostFXArmaros98 wrote:All I know is that ANIMA was born from Anno's desire to have a story more like Gundam and in the 2004 he asked to Yamashita if he wanted to write a What If story as a continuation of the original anime, and then confess to him some future plans for the Franchise... It seems that both ANIMA and Rebuilds use both old and unused ideas from the anime and new ideas...


Do you have a source for that? because that souds fascinating.

But this seems to me the most likely conclusion: Not a direct line from ANIMA to Rebuild, but that both arose independently from the "unused ideas" bag for the original series and then gradually went off the rails. Same could probably be said for Sadamoto's manga.

Up to Volume 3 it doesn't seem like there's a literal timeloop anywhere(nor is it really compatible with the FAR backstory), more something like eternal recurrence. Like I said, it looks like those early fanfics before the CI were a thing, where the authors would really go nuts with the vaguer/softer parts of the worldbuilding
Alas poor Kaworu! I knew him well...
Todo list:
- Essay on the character's roles in each others introspec sequences
- Good faith Analysis of Mari
- Finish ep 8 commentary

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Postby Zusuchan » Fri Dec 18, 2020 5:23 am

I don't know Anno having told that Anima in particular grew out of that desire, but he has talked about wishing to make Eva a Gundam-like franchise with much cultural relevancy, so the idea that that's why he decided to give Yamashita the option to do Anima isn't out of the question.

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Postby FXArmaros98 » Fri Dec 18, 2020 6:11 am

If I remember correctly Yamashita in one of his interviews made those statements, regarding the reasons for which he had permission from Anno himself to write ANIMA, but unfortunately I not have a link for be able to confirm ... But anyway in my opinion the many similarities between the films and novels are a confirmation that Yamashita was really one of the few who had permission from Anno to know things in advance about the Rebuild plot ... This is interesting because it could be linked to that interview in which the voice actor of Kaworu said he received a letter from Anno about who Kaworu and Shinji really are in Rebuild, and how this shocked the rest of the cast by discovering the plot details of the films.I also remembered a fact that perhaps we should not have overlooked, at the end of the 3 translated Volumes (I don't remember exactly which one), Yamashita made a comment on the appearance of Armaros: he said that he had asked Anno if he could use the drawing of the Mark 06 in its history. What does this mean? That Yamashita, unlike the creators of the other spin-offs, has to ask Anno for consent regarding certain details of the plot? If this is really the case, it means that ANIMA is even more important than the manga since Sadamoto could perhaps do what he wanted while Yamashita must consult Anno in person.


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