Evangelion ANIMA (general)

Blockio · Postby **Blockio** » Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:51 am

Oh your take on the manga is quite agreed on, not a lot of people like that thing :P

And yeah, anima vol 4 does have some pretty cool stuff in there, not even doubting that, I just wish it were a bit more.... good on the large scale

BlueBasilisk · Postby **BlueBasilisk** » Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:57 am

Yamashita's writing is a very inconsistent, messy soup of unpolished ideas and even after four volumes I still don't feel like it's managed to find its legs as a story. I'll give him credit, his re-write of part 1 for the digest version is vastly superior to what I've read of the original chapters by Kageyama. Good god were those bad.

I think one of the problems is that Anima is billed as a sequel to NGE, but it's not following any existing version of NGE or even any of the alternate paths in the Evangelion 2 game. Right from the very beginning of volume 1, you can see that the changes go back at least as far as episode 21. Kaji's still alive, meaning the second half of 21 didn't happen. Armisael is mentioned, Rei 2 is dead and Eva 00 was destroyed, so episode 23 happened, but there's enough remaining of Eva 00 to be salvaged and rebuilt and Tokyo-3 still seems to be standing when the MP Evas attack Tokyo-3. Adam is effectively non-existent, being mentioned all of twice across four books. I can't recall what it was offhand, but I'm pretty sure one of the first three volumes nuked the idea that Rei was the incarnation of Lilith. Kaworu's still around in some form or other but his personality and relationship with Shinji are far more similar to 3.0 than to NGE, and how the events of episode 24 played out are a total mystery.

Then there's the bombshell that drops in Volume 4:

SPOILER: Show

Kyoko is still alive. Her soulless body is being kept alive by cybernetic implants and life support equipment at a top secret Eva development facility in Germany. Kyoko's suicide was a critical point in Asuka's backstory and her still being alive completely upends Asuka's character arc. And it's not like Euro secretly resurrected her and the characters just found out. Hikari and Asuka both knew about it, but the story spends virtually zero time exploring any of the ramifications of this development.

The pre-time skip Evas in the EoE sequence don't use their classic designs, either. Eva 00 is yellow, it and Eva 02 have new designs with colored abdominal bands like their NTE counterparts, and Eva 01's crest is tipped with neon green.

It creates a very murky and unstable foundation for a story that struggles to maintain a sense of continuity in its own original material. Yamashita can't even remember Asuka's hair color. She's stated to be a redhead in Volume 1, but by 4 she's become a blonde. :lol:

Yamashita almost always draws her with blonde or sandy hair in his illos so I'm puzzled why he didn't commit to blonde from the get-go.

Reichu and I wonder if Anima isn't a sneaky adaptation of some NTE early draft material. A lot of suspiciously familiar ideas rear their head as the story goes on and the timing is just about right. Anima started publication in 2008, meaning it would have been developed roughly in parallel with 1.0 and 2.0, and that would have been right around the time that Anno decided to re-think the story and deviate further from NGE.

FXArmaros98 · Postby **FXArmaros98** » Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:41 am

The biggest revelation in the fourth volume in my opinion is another, it concerns Armaros, who has read the volume will know what I mean

BlueBasilisk · Postby **BlueBasilisk** » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:38 pm

^That story is way more interesting than the one Yamashita's telling. :lol:

FXArmaros98 · Postby **FXArmaros98** » Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:02 pm

BlueBasilisk what did you think when you discovered the truth about Armaros? Were you also particularly impressed by the madness of the thing?

BlueBasilisk · Postby **BlueBasilisk** » Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:09 pm

I already knew about it from previous translations of parts of volume 5/Part 3, so I wasn't surprised when it came up. It's a fascinating idea that I don't feel is well developed in any meaningful way, particularly how the relevant characters react to it. There are a lot of moral implications it raises that get completely glossed over.

FXArmaros98 · Postby **FXArmaros98** » Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:21 pm

This makes me particularly laugh when I think that some people speculated that the final boss of Rebuild could be Shinji EOE and that the Mark 06 was the Eva 01 of the anime .. I shudder if at the idea that Yamashita can be involved in writing the last movie ... But how did you say nice idea that he could even have used in the original anime if it weren't for the Anno mood that EOE came out of ...

Jäeger · Postby **Jäeger** » Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:28 pm

Jäeger wrote:MP Evas included. So, yeah, It`s weird. And as I've posted at least he knows what EOE is about.

It could be worse. Anima is a wacky "do as you whish" sequel.....Sadamoto's manga was an adaptation and never understood neither the characters (my god, Asuka & Kaworu), neither their relationships o even the story (that awful 3I or Gendo's destiny). Come on, last volumes were shameful. I know it's not gonna be a popular opinion, but I don't regret it

About Anima vol.4, quite enjoyable if your deep in this shit. And a tender conclusión for this book. Now it takes 7 months to get the conclusion....

Ahh, and it's pretty obvious which girl Yamashita likes the most.....One clue : is not Rei, despite the presence of four clones

Arcadia's legacy · Postby **Arcadia's legacy** » Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:32 pm

What's this revelation about Armaros? I haven't read ANIMA, but i would not mind the spoilers

FXArmaros98 · Postby **FXArmaros98** » Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:34 pm

Well be ready

SPOILER: Show

It would seem that Armaros was nothing less than a Shinji and an Eva 01 of the loop that precedes the world of ANIMA ... Absurd right?

Jäeger · Postby **Jäeger** » Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:37 pm

FXArmaros98 wrote:The biggest revelation in the fourth volume in my opinion is another, it concerns Armaros, who has read the volume will know what I mean

A hint about Rebuild?

Or an stolen idea from Xenogears.

And make the mc believe the same character has died...TWICE...

FXArmaros98 · Postby **FXArmaros98** » Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:49 pm

I start seriously to think that in the last movie Shinji thanks to Kaworu's help he can make a mental journey through space-time and interact with his counterparts ... Thrice Upon A Time ... the loop theory in my opinion don't need it to be confirmed, the title already does

BlueBalisk if you really read some translations of Volume 5 could you please post as a spoiler what happens at the end of the story ... I'm too curious

BlueBasilisk · Postby **BlueBasilisk** » Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:59 pm

FXArmaros98, you might wanna edit your spoiler tag. The spoiler's on the outside! :tongue:

Arcadia's legacy wrote:What's this revelation about Armaros? I haven't read ANIMA, but i would not mind the spoilers

To go a bit more in-depth with with FXArmaros98 said

SPOILER: Show

Armaros is the Shinji and the Eva 01 from a previous incarnation of the world, possibly the one immediately prior to the world the story currently takes place in. There's a bit of a mind-screw here as Armaros was previously said to have no mind of its own and no will driving it but so far that issue hasn't been addressed. At the end of that world, there was a battle between hundreds of Evangelions and this Armaros emerged as the ultimate victor.

The two Torwarts (called Torwachters in the translation for some reason) are called "stabilizers" by Seele-Kaji. They possess echoes of the souls of the Rei and Asuka from the previous world who died before the final battle, and they keep the Other Shinji's consciousness subdued. When Shinji shatters the plates connecting them using the replica Spear of Longinus, Other Shinji's consciousness surfaces briefly. He has no idea what Armaros has been doing and calls out for his Misato in fear and confusion. He fades away again once the Torwarts regenerate and the Armaros...program? reasserts control.

The characters of the present world barely spare a thought for him and never even think about trying to rescue him, and ultimately he's killed off when Hikari fires a micro black hole into his torso and he's consumed by it.

But, and this includes spoilers for the upcoming volume 5,

SPOILER: Show

he sort of returns when the curse of Armaros takes over Hikari's Eva II Heurtebise and turns it into Armaros II. Armaros is a curse that works along the same principles as Sin from Final Fantasy X. The role of Armaros will always exist, and whoever kills it will become the new Armaros in its place.

FXArmaros98 · Postby **FXArmaros98** » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:13 pm

Blue Basilisk could you please post as spoiler somo other information about the Volume 5?

SPOILER: Show

From what emerges from a spoiler found some time ago during the final fight ANIMA Shinji see again the face of the other Shinji before Armaros is defeated in final battle of the end of the story ... This spoiler is uncertain until a translation of the fifth volume comes out so let's wait ...

SEELE-01 · Postby **SEELE-01** » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:27 pm

Yup... The last 10 posts have confirmed what I knew all along...
ANIMA is simply (bad) sanctioned fanfiction

Some of the Eva desings are kinda cool, tho...

FXArmaros98 · Postby **FXArmaros98** » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:32 pm

This could be interesting

SPOILER: Show

From Anima last chapter(original Japanese version) traslated by some fans:the shape of Shinji <it’s in lilin fairy tales as well, isn’t it? since lilith was uncontrollable and eve was completely duped in the story of the snake, why didn’t it also happen to adam, who was on the other side?> —what are you talking about, kaworu-kun? <just a fairy tale. one that might hide the truth unexpectedly within it…about what adam cut off.> —cut what off? <the serpent—that is, the evil and sin that is part of adam. in an attempt to be whole, adam had cut off the part of himself that was the most human.> —for what? <to meet the being that gave him lilith—he did it with the best of intentions, but it ended up costing his right to do so.> —to meet…? who? <light… fills.> deep inside the mouth opened by devil’s backbone, he thought he saw his own face, terribly distorted. —could it be that i’m the serpent—the human flaw that was cut off from adam, kaworu-kun? <that’s not for you to know as the “you” you are now.> those concrete words were the first time he heard him not speak in riddles. <you intend on descending from this time loop as the shinji-kun you are now, don’t you? then you should give the right to have that information to the “you” of the new world.> —you…aren’t going to stop me, are you? <haven’t i told you, shinji-kun? i’m your ally. no matter which one of “you” i meet.> —kaworu-kun? <this is goodbye.> Shinji thought kaworu might have smiled. Shinji’s blade glinted, slicing up the body of the armaros giant from the left arm of its body.

SPOILER: Show

So Kaworu he's talking to Shinji about sending information to the next world's Shinji Trice upon a time is the title of the novel that talks about the consequences of sending messages in the past and in the future ... Is it possible that the Rebuild and ANIMA are connected?

BlueBasilisk · Postby **BlueBasilisk** » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:46 pm

FXArmaros98 wrote:Blue Basilisk could you please post as spoiler somo other information about the Volume 5?
SPOILER: Show
From what emerges from a spoiler found some time ago during the final fight ANIMA Shinji see again the face of the other Shinji before Armaros is defeated in final battle of the end of the story ... This spoiler is uncertain until a translation of the fifth volume comes out so let's wait ...

SPOILER: Show

Yes, that's what happened. Toji uses the power of the the 13th Angel that's dormant in his body to hijack one of Armaros II's Torwarts and cuts Eva Euro-II out of Armaros' body after it grows to an enormous size, saving Hikari and Kensuke who were trapped inside. He tries to use the Angel's power to take it over. However, Euro-II's weapon, the Devil's Backbone, is an Eva unto itself and has taken control of the black giant's body. The dragon's head opens its mouth and inside Shinji sees a distorted version of his own face.

Shinji asks what's going on and Kaworu tells him a story. Long in the past, Adam (it's not clear if he means Eva-verse Adam or biblical Adam) desired to become closer to his creator, and in order to do so, he split off his sinful human side, which became "the serpent." Shinji asks if he is the serpent (he clearly is) but Kaworu refuses to answer, saying it's not for the current version of Shinji to know, but that stories often contain an element of truth.

Nerv debates how to deal with the Black Colossus. It's on the brink of completely destroying the world, and Super Eva/Eva 01 Final configuration has become a radiant giant about to cause Third Impact again. If they kill Armaros II, they'll just create another one. One of the solutions they discuss is knocking it into the lake and flash freezing it. Mari solves the issue by devouring the Devil's Backbone with Wolfpack and the Serpent with it. She then somehow teleports to the Apple's Core and strands herself there by cutting it off from the Earth. The last time we see her, Wolfpack curls up inside the Ark, waiting to become the next Armaros.

Shinji and Super Eva die again, but he's revived when data from the Ark impregnates Asuka/Eva, who gives birth to a new baby Eva that as far as we can tell does not have a name. It's the Eva with the very shapely ass.

The last chapter hasn't been translated, so I'm not sure what happens after that, but the special cover art for Volume 5 shows Shinji, Asuka, the three surviving Ayanamis, Toji, Hikari and Kensuke on a hill stargazing on a beautiful night, so somehow everything seems to turn out okay.

To answer your other question

SPOILER: Show

No, there's likely no connection between Anima and NTE besides conceptual origins. Way back in volume 1/2, Kaworu talks about what the Shinji of the next world will be like. The "next world" really shouldn't exist since Armaros has been neutralized and so cannot continue the cycle, but Kaworu says the birds have already gone there since they can transcend time, so apparently it does? That part's very confusing.

Anima has nothing to do with the "loop theory" either as far as I can tell. None of the worlds seen in the various cycles are shown to be the Neon Genesis Evangelion we know. Plus, neither the anime nor the manga version of NGE should result the world being reset as the Human Instrumentality Project was ultimately enacted (it wasn't in Anima), thus ending the intended role of Armaros. Seele-Kaji explains in...I think it's volume 3 that Armaros is simply programmed by the progenitors to keep running the experiment until Instrumentality happens and is incapable of thinking or acting outside of those parameters. It doesn't matter how or what the outcome of Instrumentality is so long as it happens.

That's the gist of it, anyway. Anima's not really an Eva story in any meaningful way. It's more like an original property with a special Eva collaboration DLC pack. Either he filed the Eva off of it to make Iconic Field, or Anima was an expansion of the seed that eventually became IF. If you look at the two lead characters of that, they are dead ringers for Anima's version of Shinji and Asuka in their 20s.

FXArmaros98 · Postby **FXArmaros98** » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:55 pm

Thank you very much for answering my questions BlueBasilisk, but I'll give you others:

SPOILER: Show

[How is Shinji with Asuka and Gendo at the end of the story? What do you know about Lucretius' spear and the World Tree? If ANIMA Toji used Bardiel's power do you think Asuka Shikinami in the last movie could do something like this?/spoiler] [spoiler]Regarding the story that ANIMA Shinji is the snake, I remembered a thread about Rebuilds where members of this forum point out that the SEELE Rebuild symbol has a snake and both Lilith's corpse and the infinity failures have filaments. similar in fact has snakes ... Do you believe that even in Rebuild Shinji it can be something like a snake and that this can have a connection with its red eyes?Kaworu said the birds have already gone to the next world? Well in the short film Until You Come To Me Shinji and the viewer before seeing a Rei Quantic notice a flock of seagulls ... How the hell is it possible that in the world after the fourth impact there can be seagulls? Also maybe could you give the link for translated parts of volume 5 and the illustration of Shinji, Asuka,Toji,Kensuke and the Ayanamis together watching the stars together if you can?

Blockio · Postby **Blockio** » Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:22 pm

BlueBasilisk wrote:That's the gist of it, anyway. Anima's not really an Eva story in any meaningful way. It's more like an original property with a special Eva collaboration DLC pack. Either he filed the Eva off of it to make Iconic Field, or Anima was an expansion of the seed that eventually became IF. If you look at the two lead characters of that, they are dead ringers for Anima's version of Shinji and Asuka in their 20s.

I'd have taken IF over this horseshit all day any day x.x

Jäeger · Postby **Jäeger** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:50 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't understand why people calls "loop" (The groundhog day) the reincarnations. It's not the same concept. And I stll believe that in Khara somebody has played Xenogears.....

OMFG Iconic Field, I have forgotten that short movie....YES, THEY ARE FUCKING EXPIES OF Shinji OF Shinji AND Asuka, there is no debate here.

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