3.0's Missing D-Part and UntilYouComeToMe Theory

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final installment is scheduled to debut in Japan on January 23, 2021.

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3.0's Missing D-Part and UntilYouComeToMe Theory

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Postby intermediateO » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:24 pm

Personally, 3.0 definitely felt like it was missing a whole section from it to me. I found 3.0 just so structurally unsatisfying because it feels like a whodunnit murder-mystery that never tells you whodunnit. If you take any murder-mystery movie or book and cut out the last 4th of it, I feel like it would give you a pretty similar emotion to the wtf-ness of Eva 3.0's "story". The missing D-part, UYCTM, the original release plans pairing 3.0 with FINAL (double feature and then only a year seperating them), and even the finalized title 「3.0+1.0」 , it all points to the story of 3.0 somehow not being complete and only finishing in earnest with the final film.

The content in UYCTM also overlays quite well with both what we have seen in the 3.0+1.0 teasers and the idea of finally revealing whodunnit.

So here's a fun theory:
The contents of both UYCTM and the beginng part of 3.0+1.0 portrays our 3 Pilots heading towards Wille/a Lilin settlement and the "truth" finally being revealed to Shinji, both being based on the missing D-Part of 3.0.

The 3.0+1.0 teasers show shots of characters potentially explaining things to Shinji, with 4 shots seemingly on the Wunder. First is one with Misato and Ritsuko, then Mari, then Shinji himself with his SDAT, and then a mysterious shot with Kaworu beside Shinji.

This scene is parelleled in UYCTM with a Shinji lying down on some pavement that is clearly not core-ified and even has green plant life. He is also back in his school uniform like the clips from the teasers. This Shinji might be sprawled out on some Lilin kept pavement outside the Wunder (also pretty identical to the rubble at the end of UYCTM), and then (similar to the scene of him screaming and throwing his SDAT at Neo Nerv) we get to see Shinji suddenly overcome with the new information revealed to him and the music crescendos. Shots allude to the truth of Eva-01's Awakening, his father, the Adams, Kaworu (of which there are multiple), and even his own sacrificial role in it all being revealed to him.

Even more evidence for this missing D-part is the silhouette shudder that was put up with the cast of 3.0 almost a full year before the movie came out. In one of the recent quarantine commentaries staff did on 3.0, they revealed that there were originally planning to have even more characters on it but thought maybe it was too soon for some. These characters were most likely the aged up Toji, Kennsuke, and Hikari, which we now know have definitely been in 3.0+1.0 since the planning and production stages around Avant 1 when their height charts leaked. They will probably all feature in this opening section of 3.0+1.0. It's easy to imagine this being part of the tentative D-part that was cut and why they were apprehensive about whether they should reveal them.

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Re: 3.0's Missing D-Part and UntilYouComeToMe Theory

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:47 pm

So, I like the idea of a Part D in Eva Q. Evangelion was always at its best and most potent when it was being very daring and unconventional. Following up a huge, exciting, and bombastic fight that felt very finalizing with an extended scene full of emotional meandering and personal discovery is basically what The End of Evangelion did. Asuka goes ahead and engages in one of the best kaiju fights known to animation, after which Shinji goes off and has a surreal journey of self exploration, discovering who and what he actually is. It doesn't sound like it would work at all on paper, and any financially viable producer worth his salt would naturally reject that idea for being aimless and anti-climactic. But, when you watch the movie, that bizarre overall structure is obviously one of the best aspects of The End of Evangelion. After having a series of very emotionally scarring events, EoE's long stretch of lucid dreaming kinda help emotionally wash all that away, helping you grapple with what you've seen and coming to terms with the importance of it all.

But I really don't know the purpose of UYCTM, outside of being a mood piece to accompany Eva Q. At best, it's potentially evidence of something being there after the current ending of Eva Q, and may even lightly touch on what those things might have been. But it really doesn't work as an extension fo Eva Q in and of itself. None of the exposition that an "Eva Q Part D" might have supplied it very evident in the short film itself, and, barring any Sequel Theory (let's just table that discussion for the time being), the inclusions of the blatant NGE imagery confuses UYCTM's purpose even more. (Hell, even if we are to assume Sequel Theory, Soryu inclusion makes no sense in a Shikinami timeline without literal paragraphs of exposition.) So I appreciate the UYCTM as a companion "mood piece" to Eva Q, but I don't know if I'd consider the short film itself as canon to the events of Q. I feel like Shin Eva is going to do a far better job at all that.

Also, I did finally get around to watching the EvangelionFanChannel's video on UYCTM (I'm always down for local Japanese theories on Evangelion, even if they differ from my own), and, if true, I wonder how exactly it was decided that "Eva Q Part D" was going to be replaced with the God Warrior short film. That whole project sounded like something Anno sought out to do himself on his own volition, so it's not like it was an uncontrollable variable or a decision made by someone higher up than Anno being passed on to him, throwing a monkey wrench in his plans in the production of Eva Q. (That's absurd, Anno is the biggest dog in Studio Khara.) Also, at what point in the production would that have been decided? I doubt Anno would throw out 20-ish minutes of nearly completed animation just because he wanted to do a God Warrior short film instead. If this decision was made earlier on in the production process, it's easier to see how Anno could have restructured "Part C" to feel like a resting place for the franchise. Did Anno decide to end NTE early all together with Eva Q's "Part C" due to his crippling depression and go make the God Warrior short film instead as a form of emotional therapy? If so, good for him! The man deserves whatever happiness and healing he can squeeze out of life. (I am glad we're getting a Shin Eva, though.)

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Re: 3.0's Missing D-Part and UntilYouComeToMe Theory

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Postby UrsusArctos » Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:15 am

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Also, I did finally get around to watching the EvangelionFanChannel's video on UYCTM (I'm always down for local Japanese theories on Evangelion, even if they differ from my own), and, if true, I wonder how exactly it was decided that "Eva Q Part D" was going to be replaced with the God Warrior short film. <snip>


When I think about the narrative structure he's been sticking to for the four movies, it's actually more than just a Jo-Ha-Kyu, it's what's called Kishotenketsu where the first three parts of Jo, Ha and Kyu are more or less the same but the 4th portion is a journey or Michiyuki that usually has less dialogue than the rest. The theorized D part, being a long journey, would fit in with the 4-part structure perfectly well, and it might have even been capped off with a quick conclusion to Shinji's story with him meeting an adult Toji, Hikari and Kensuke and the Evangelion story coming to some kind of an end.

Why did Anno get rid of the D part he'd been working on - and for which Shiro Sagisu almost certainly brought in his arrangement of Londonderry Air (Danny Boy)? [Begin Speculation] I'm guessing it's because Anno made a decision to keep working on Evangelion no matter what. Had his depression really gotten the better of him, he might have pushed to finish the D part and conclude Evangelion's story with Shinji finding a place of happiness with the adult Toji, Kensuke and Hikari, leaving the entire Misato vs Gendo, Wille vs Nerv conflict to some kind of rushed, offscreen conclusion summing up all the things that would've otherwise gone into 3.0 + 1.0. That he made up his mind not to make up the D part meant that he had decided to commit himself to another movie, and he's done just that! [/End Speculation]

So the very fact that we're missing the D part may be a good thing, because we get a whole movie in the bargain. Had he finished the D part, we may have had a rushed and unsatsifying "goodbye, all of Evangelion" back in 2012.

Yet again, all of this is pure speculation on my part, but I have the feeling that the missing D part is a good thing!
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Re: 3.0's Missing D-Part and UntilYouComeToMe Theory

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Postby intermediateO » Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:04 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:None of the exposition that an "Eva Q Part D" might have supplied it very evident in the short film itself, and, barring any Sequel Theory (let's just table that discussion for the time being), the inclusions of the blatant NGE imagery confuses UYCTM's purpose even more. (Hell, even if we are to assume Sequel Theory, Soryu inclusion makes no sense in a Shikinami timeline without literal paragraphs of exposition.) So I appreciate the UYCTM as a companion "mood piece" to Eva Q, but I don't know if I'd consider the short film itself as canon to the events of Q. I feel like Shin Eva is going to do a far better job at all that.


Yeah. The ooky-spooky part of UYCTM is all the undeniable Sequel Theory fodder. Unfortunately, Shin Eva is doing it itself too though, changing the spelling of Evangelion in the title to the TV spelling and then even using this spelling again in the cryptic tagline, "Bye-bye, all of Evangelion."

I feel like Shin Eva is kinda gonna hafta adress the procession of Asuka's in UYCTM, but I think they can get away with it not being a direct sequel, but instead just a Rebuild only time loop thing. Basically, last loop around Asuka ended up in postions that mirror TV Asuka in certain ways(her wearing her sundress, her being hospitalized) but having it not be that she is actually TV Asuka.

View Original PostUrsusArctos wrote:When I think about the narrative structure he's been sticking to for the four movies, it's actually more than just a Jo-Ha-Kyu, it's what's called Kishotenketsu where the first three parts of Jo, Ha and Kyu are more or less the same but the 4th portion is a journey or Michiyuki that usually has less dialogue than the rest. The theorized D part, being a long journey, would fit in with the 4-part structure perfectly well, and it might have even been capped off with a quick conclusion to Shinji's story with him meeting an adult Toji, Hikari and Kensuke and the Evangelion story coming to some kind of an end.


Yeah, I feel like the movie could have rounded itself out better with a Toji reunion where him and Hikari introdruce him to their child. This way Shinji could have seen something good that happened post his "sin". I feel like this might happen in the next film, and it will be the "hope" that he finds that is mentioned in the Shin Eva preview at the end of 3.0. I think it would have been way more thematically satisfying if this "hope" was found in 3.0 itself though, to call back to Kaworu's words and to show Shinji that just because he supposedly made a mistake, that doesn't mean that good things can't come from it.

Basically, I feel like the title and theme should have been "You Should (Not) Redo", where Shinji comes to understand that undoing 3rd Impact would not only be undoing all the growth he's made, but the literal lives of all those who have been born after 3-Impact. This would have also tied into his theme of wanting things to stand still and not change.(If loop theory is real, it could literally be that he has just been undoing things over and over again without the courage to move forward.)

I don't think the D-Part would have ever ended so conclusively as to show another scuffle between Wille and Neo-Nerv though. I definitely think that's always been for the Final Film.

Also, I don't think this has been discussed much, but I believe the Jo-Ha-Kyu titles were also utilized in a kind of trolly way that wasn't revealed until the final films title of :ll was revealed. Basically, it wasn't the Jo-Ha-Kyu of narrative structure, like everyone was assuming, but the Jo-Ha-Kyubof music, which is actually where the term originally comes from even.

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Re: 3.0's Missing D-Part and UntilYouComeToMe Theory

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Postby Blockio » Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:12 pm

I am inclined to believe Ursus here, the way things turned out does give me the impression as well that if Q had a D-part, chances are we would not be getting Shin at all. It's definitely a good thing that Q doesn't have one, since having that addition would not have added to the run time of the film, that almost certainly was decided by outside factors, so having an extra part would just mean that there would be material cut from the other three.
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Re: 3.0's Missing D-Part and UntilYouComeToMe Theory

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Postby Zusuchan » Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:58 pm

intermediateO wrote:
Basically, I feel like the title and theme should have been "You Should (Not) Redo",

But that would have implied that it is possible to redo and the impossibility of doing so and the futility of all attempts to the contrary are a pretty big part of 3.33. This is also one of the reasons why the film ends where it ends-during the immediate destructive aftermath of Shinji stubbornly attempting to fix his mistakes and ''redo'', basically, which of course turned out to be impossible and in psychological terms, yet another case of him clinging to unrealistic dreams and destroying his current relationships for them. If the movie suggested that you could redo and you just shouldn't because it would harm your current state in terms of relationships, etc., the film and NTE in general wouldn't work.

Shinji is going to find his hope in Shin because that's the film that's most likely going to explicitly be about hope and becoming a better person by learning from your past mistakes and attempting to do better for the sake of both yourself and others from now on. That last part is my own personal opinion, but pretty much everything seems to be pointing there anyways...

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Re: 3.0's Missing D-Part and UntilYouComeToMe Theory

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Postby intermediateO » Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:50 pm

View Original PostZusuchan wrote:But that would have implied that it is possible to redo and the impossibility of doing so and the futility of all attempts to the contrary are a pretty big part of 3.33. This is also one of the reasons why the film ends where it ends-during the immediate destructive aftermath of Shinji stubbornly attempting to fix his mistakes and ''redo'', basically, which of course turned out to be impossible and in psychological terms, yet another case of him clinging to unrealistic dreams and destroying his current relationships for them. If the movie suggested that you could redo and you just shouldn't because it would harm your current state in terms of relationships, etc., the film and NTE in general wouldn't work.

Shinji is going to find his hope in Shin because that's the film that's most likely going to explicitly be about hope and becoming a better person by learning from your past mistakes and attempting to do better for the sake of both yourself and others from now on. That last part is my own personal opinion, but pretty much everything seems to be pointing there anyways...


As one of the people who dislikes 3.0, I in no way think that just changing that one thing would fix the movie. I just meant that the ephemeral idolized concept of a hypothetical "You Should (Not) Redo" would have been more to my liking, with all the other changes it would also entail.

And we can't really say whether time-travel-like redoing is impossible or not. The films haven't really explained what powers the lances have. I definitely think it is a failure of the film to portray Kaworu's plan and Shinji's understanding of it in a comprehendable way though. It was basically as stupid as Kaworu saying, "There's a Wizard who I know that can undo everything, Shinji." And then Shinji just goes "Wow, amazing, Kaworu." The most generous reading I think you could give to the scene though is that Kaworu and Shinji both think that the lances could have time-travel level redoing effect. If Shinji was just under the assumption that the spears would "purify" the earth, it would just make no sense. His "sin" is so bad because he seemingly decimated the population, not just the environment. It would be like giving someone buying a new car for the person they made paraplegic in a car accident.

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Re: 3.0's Missing D-Part and UntilYouComeToMe Theory

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:46 pm

View Original PostintermediateO wrote:Yeah. The ooky-spooky part of UYCTM is all the undeniable Sequel Theory fodder. Unfortunately, Shin Eva is doing it itself too though, changing the spelling of Evangelion in the title to the TV spelling and then even using this spelling again in the cryptic tagline, "Bye-bye, all of Evangelion."

There were actually legal reasons why Anno couldn't use the original spelling of Evangelion at first. When he did Eva Jo, Gainax still owned the rights to Evangelion "proper" (AKA, the TV series and the 90's movies), so Anno couldn't use the proper Evangelion title for the new movies. Now that he owns the TV series and the 90's movies, he's free to use that original spelling if he wants. It'll be interesting to see if that acquisition changed the narrative of Shin Eva or not. I wanna say it probably won't go into Sequel Theory, only because when Anno first planned out these movies he didn't have the rights to the original series, and Anno has already laid enough groundwork based on that initial situation where changing something this late in the game would probably feel rather rushed at this point. That's just my thought, though. I'm actually pretty down with whatever curveball Anno throws at me because I think he tends to handle them so well as a visual storyteller. But who knows? We'll just have to... *sigh*

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Re: 3.0's Missing D-Part and UntilYouComeToMe Theory

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Postby UrsusArctos » Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:50 am

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:There were actually legal reasons why Anno couldn't use the original spelling of Evangelion at first.


Was that the reason or was that an artistic choice? Funny, I don't remember us discussing legal reasons or Gainax ownership for the "Wevuangeliwon" script back in the day. (Do you have a source? I'll do a little digging myself and check to see if this isn't a misconception.)

I wanna say it probably won't go into Sequel Theory, only because when Anno first planned out these movies he didn't have the rights to the original series, and Anno has already laid enough groundwork based on that initial situation where changing something this late in the game would probably feel rather rushed at this point.


Sequel Theory is like Jason Voorhees, Dracula and Grigory Rasputin - keep killing it, and it'll still find a way of coming back in discussion. As far as I'm concerned, there's no thematic purpose in NTE being a sequel to NGE, especially since the background is so very different. I'm in agreement with you that Anno isn't likely to change anything major so late in production, especially given how long 3.0 + 1.0 has been delayed even without COVID.
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Re: 3.0's Missing D-Part and UntilYouComeToMe Theory

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:48 am

View Original PostUrsusArctos wrote:Was that the reason or was that an artistic choice? Funny, I don't remember us discussing legal reasons or Gainax ownership for the "Wevuangeliwon" script back in the day. (Do you have a source? I'll do a little digging myself and check to see if this isn't a misconception.)

I mean that Gainax owned the non-"Wevongeliwon" form of the title, which is why Khara had to change it to "Wevongeliwon" in the first place. I vaguely remember the name change being discussed somewhere in the forum, and separately discussing the fact that Khara bought the rights to the original series from Gainax at some point during/after Eva Q. I linked the two occurrences in my head as being the reason for the name change, though that may not be the case either. (But my understanding of Japanese is non-existent, so for all I know none of this is accurate.)


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