Is no one bothered by the sexualization of the characters in EVA?

For serious and at times in-depth discussions only, covering the original TV series, the movies End of Evangelion and Death & Rebirth.

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Re: Is no one bothered by the sexualization of the characters in EVA?

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Postby Blockio » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:19 pm

Orcot can you for a change try being less blatantly fucking sexist in your posts
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Re: Is no one bothered by the sexualization of the characters in EVA?

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Postby orcot » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:03 pm

View Original PostBlockio wrote:Orcot can you for a change try being less blatantly fucking sexist in your posts

Ah blockio what did I do to deserve all of your attention I don't particulairy care for you. Also language.

Am I bothered by the sexualization of the characters? Not realy with the exception of the Shinji Asuka scene.
Most is somewhat innocent but Japan in general can be weird in what they find sexual

Do I believe Derantor's story of the 13 year old snorting coke?
Maybe but improbable more likely that she was lying to get attention.

Do I believe silvermoonlight story?
In my middle school the girls who had the most sex where not at the top of any hierarchy.
Girls who are most developed at the time are the girls that haver dropped classes making them not the brightest kids around.
That said nobody got pregnant in my middle school 12-14 years. So different enviroments perhaps?
What happenend there I won't tell you. But it was tame enough

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Re: Is no one bothered by the sexualization of the characters in EVA?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:09 pm

There are over 7 Billion people in the world; the chances of there existing a 13/14-year-old who snorts coke and talks about anal (sadly) isn't that unreasonable. The last part of my teen years were in a hick part of the American South, and I kept hearing about one young adolescence in her early teen years from one family trying to do sexual stuff with her dog. I think it was an across-the-street neighbor. They went to our church. Some parts of town around here utterly terrify me.

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Re: Is no one bothered by the sexualization of the characters in EVA?

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Postby Derantor » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:15 pm

View Original Postorcot wrote:How does a 14 year old get coke?

Very simple. One of her elder brothers (whom I also knew). How do I know she was not lying? She let me try the stuff. :shrug: Believe me or don't. It's really not that complicated of a story. Parents have a divorce, brothers are already dealing with shady shit, daughter wants to be an adult and emulates her siblings. You haven't given your gender, but I assume that you are male, so how do you know what the girls talked about among themselves or how they managed their hierarchies? And who said the queen is necessarily popular? There's such a thing as envy.

Am I bothered by the sexualization of the characters? Not realy with the exception of the Shinji Asuka scene.

This makes me think you're not talking about the kind of sexualization we are talking about. Nothing about Shinji wanking off ot a comatose Asuka comes off as sexy, and it isn't intended to be that way in the first place - it's the exact opposite.

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Re: Is no one bothered by the sexualization of the characters in EVA?

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Postby orcot » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:16 am

essentialy we share a account but it's mostly me

Then the sexualization of evangelion is pretty okay altough you can clearly see it's a Japanese thing. People would definitly feel the cultural gap

The coke thing sounds expensive, you don't want a coked up sister in your house, you want someone who can keep his/her mouth shut. You want someone who can sell to a older public Don't sell to 14 year olds they do not have the money and will squeel on you to teachers and parents.

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Re: Is no one bothered by the sexualization of the characters in EVA?

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Postby MuscleRobo » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:57 am

I have an Asuka body pillow, so no.

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Re: Is no one bothered by the sexualization of the characters in EVA?

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Postby Zusuchan » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:34 am

orcot:
you don't want a coked up sister in your house, you want someone who can keep his/her mouth shut.

This makes sense, but this is also hardly the first time someone (especially smo doing something illegal) makes a stupid decision based on money and/or peer pressure. And if you're a 15-year-old coke dealer, then statistically you're probably not the brightest bulb.
People would definitly feel the cultural gap

It probably has more to do with the way this ''fan service'' is done. There's plenty of hyper-sexualization and pandering to audiences in mainstream Hollywood productions as well, it's just that it has slowly lessened (the louder and more widely heard voices of feminists and the like probably played a role in this) and that when watching Eva, it's all a lot more obvious and blatant.
FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:
from one family trying to do sexual stuff with her dog.

Ah, yes, America. The world in general features fucked-up shit, of course, but there seems to be something about America that attracts a specific kind of Hot Pie sexual perversion.

MucleRobo: I had no idea this kind of stuff exists, but here we go. At some point someone should probably create a list for all of the Eva-related merchandise there is, since it seems like Khara wants the quantity to get to a point where you could practically live off it.

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Re: Is no one bothered by the sexualization of the characters in EVA?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:33 pm

I don’t even know if Evangelion body pillows are official merchandise, now that I think of it. I’ve never seen one advertised at Eva stores or anything like that. I’ve always assumed body pillows to be unofficial fan-made products.

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Re: Is no one bothered by the sexualization of the characters in EVA?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:18 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:I’ve always assumed body pillows to be unofficial fan-made products.


Yeah, that’s probably it.

This must be what Anno was concerned about when some fans have fallen into a state of degeneracy. Hence that hospital scene in EOE.

That was obviously a downside of just about every fan base.
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Re: Is no one bothered by the sexualization of the characters in EVA?

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Postby orcot » Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:08 am

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:Yeah, that’s probably it.

This must be what Anno was concerned about when some fans have fallen into a state of degeneracy. Hence that hospital scene in EOE.

That was obviously a downside of just about every fan base.


A warhammer 40K body pillow would be hilarious

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Re: Is no one bothered by the sexualization of the characters in EVA?

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Postby Zusuchan » Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:11 am

C.T.1290 wrote:
This must be what Anno was concerned about when some fans have fallen into a state of degeneracy.

Except Anno, as the CEO of Studio Khara, probably has some say in the Eva-related merchandise, but yet despite that not only is there lots of it, that lots also includes scantily-clad figures, rings, clothes, postcard sets, slippers, bath towels, toothbrushes, necklaces etc. The levels of variety and quantity of Eva merchandise are intense. And I distinctly remember an interview where Anno actually talked about merchandising in a way that made it clear that even if he isn't the absolute head of the whole thing, he's at the very least one of the top members in terms of deciding what kind of merchandise there's going to be. A strange thing to do when worried about obsessed fans who live their life through Eva, I'd say. He may have and probably did think of this stuff in that way back during the '90s, but his opinions have obviously changed if he's alright with it now and actively participating in generating even more merch-based revenue.

Or maybe there was no such interview and I'm simply seriously misremembering what he actually said. But I doubt my memory is that bad.

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Re: Is no one bothered by the sexualization of the characters in EVA?

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Postby glitz2hard » Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:11 am

View Original PostZusuchan wrote:Except Anno, as the CEO of Studio Khara, probably has some say in the Eva-related merchandise, but yet despite that not only is there lots of it, that lots also includes scantily-clad figures, rings, clothes, postcard sets, slippers, bath towels, toothbrushes, necklaces etc. The levels of variety and quantity of Eva merchandise are intense. And I distinctly remember an interview where Anno actually talked about merchandising in a way that made it clear that even if he isn't the absolute head of the whole thing, he's at the very least one of the top members in terms of deciding what kind of merchandise there's going to be. A strange thing to do when worried about obsessed fans who live their life through Eva, I'd say. He may have and probably did think of this stuff in that way back during the '90s, but his opinions have obviously changed if he's alright with it now and actively participating in generating even more merch-based revenue.

Or maybe there was no such interview and I'm simply seriously misremembering what he actually said. But I doubt my memory is that bad.

even in just the way the rebuilds were made, you can tell anno's views, both of the series and the fanbase, have changed over time. i would be surprised if he has any reason for sticking with eva outside of money.

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Re: Is no one bothered by the sexualization of the characters in EVA?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:49 am

I saw a body pillow of a body pillow. I regret not getting it every time I think of it.

I’ve always thought the “fan base sucks” interpretation of the EoE hospital scene to be somewhat faulty. Kensuke is a better expy for otaku than Shinji was ever meant to be anyway. (Kensuke is literally is the biggest fan of real Evangelion in the actual Evangelion TV series, for Christ’s sake.) A scene where Kensuke busts a nut over Asuka’s boobs would be more in line with the “Otaku bad” interpretation. Shinji, on the other hand, always has been and always will be the author insert for Anno himself. The misery Shinji feels is meant to reflect the misery Anno felt while making the series. Anno is criticizing himself in that scene, not the fans or their body pillows. There is no condescension or pride in that film, only self loathing and learning to deal with it.

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Re: Is no one bothered by the sexualization of the characters in EVA?

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Postby Zusuchan » Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:43 am

glitz2hard wrote:
i would be surprised if he has any reason for sticking with eva outside of money.

That's untrue too. Anno wouldn't do more Evangelion just for money-he was basically set for life after Eva's success-and NTE is artistic. If anyone ever wondered whether Anno was still interested in actual artistry after the understandable wonderings in regards to this from Cutie Honey onwards, 3.0 and then further Shin Godzilla should have brought those questions to rest. It seems like Anno is currently at a crossroads where he's simultaneously making genuine artworks that sometimes preach one thing while at the same time also being a capitalistic businessman whose objectives go against some of the things he preaches with his films.

One other thing: Anno wants Eva to be a ''pillar'' of anime in a similar way to Gundam, which is something that goes a lot deeper than money.

FreakyFilmFan4ever: I agree that the ''otaku bad'' interpretation of NGE/EoE is a bit faulty, but I do think that Anno was probably rather disillusioned with that lifestyle back then and did think that it could easily lead to bad places and psychological problems. It's probable that Anno doesn't consider there to be anything wrong with being an otaku, it's just that the majority of otakus have become more and more absent from reality and actual people/relationships/connections, preferring to instead spend time obsessing over fiction to the point of insanity (while completely ignoring some of the messages of said fiction because the messages aren't what they're really there for). I think this is what he dislikes about otakus and this is something that can be seen a bit in NGE and a lot more in EoE. But he has become a bit different-as recently as 2013 he said he wasn't criticizing otakus, but rather ''considering'' and even said he thinks that otakus will just ignore his themes anyway and not become better, so he's stopped attempting to make them better. (Though the meta aspect of NTE is still critical of the bad aspects of the otakus-not perhaps directly, but rather through the way it discusses Eva's reception).

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Re: Is no one bothered by the sexualization of the characters in EVA?

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Postby orcot » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:06 am

that's untrue too. Anno wouldn't do more Evangelion just for money-he was basically set for life after Eva's success-and NTE is artistic.

Aren't the Eva films delays caused by money issues? I think that the financial aspect is a inportant aspect

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Postby Zusuchan » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:40 am

The financial aspect is important, but films being delayed because of money issues isn't exactly an indicator whether the creators of the films made them because of money or not. And Anno has taken a long time with NTE precisely because he wants them to be good.

Also, what aspects exactly are you referring to? The only potential ''money issue'' I can think of is the delay of Shin, which is primarily due to COVID-19. True artists may not make their art for money, but that doesn't mean they don't find it nice to get some-and releasing Shin in theatres with the current situation is basically a surefire way of making sure it's not going to get the commercial success it would get if it was released during a time when the world wasn't, like, paralyzed by a lethal worldwide virus. You could even argue that this is for the fans too, since it gives them a possibility to actually see this in theatres, in full glory and greatness, instead of in home (watching films in home can never be as good an experience) or in theatres while at the same time worrying about whether that dude a few rows behind who coughed that one time may have the virus or just a cold.

And asides from the current Shin delay, I don't know of any other issue that has something to do with the financial aspect that has troubled NTE.

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Re: Is no one bothered by the sexualization of the characters in EVA?

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Postby orcot » Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:54 am

Evangelion 1.0 was released in 2007, we are 2020 this is obviously not going well

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Re: Is no one bothered by the sexualization of the characters in EVA?

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Postby kuribo-04 » Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:50 am

View Original PostZusuchan wrote: You could even argue that this is for the fans too, since it gives them a possibility to actually see this in theatres, in full glory and greatness, instead of in home (watching films in home can never be as good an experience)


I've voiced this opinion often, but I disagree about that. I usually have more complaints than anything about the cinema experience, and watching films at home is preferable to me. But it's clear at this point khara wants it to be a cinema release, and it's their movie.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:57 am

^ Well, the entire business of big-hype/big-budget releases was kinda built entirely around theatrical releases and ticket sales. Literally anything else would be considered experimental. That's not to say other studios haven't been experimenting with other films, but the film with the biggest budget released to streaming so far was Mulan, and nobody at Disney seems all that proud of that.

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Postby Tajai » Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:06 pm

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:The prime example of that would be the Shinji Ikari Raising Project manga. Yes, it’s teen oriented, so it would make some sense. But the series and franchise have been around for over 20 years, and most of viewers from back then are all adults now.

I’m sure something like this have been covered before, but I thought I give my input on this.

It’s not just EVA though, but some of the high school eicchi comedy type of genre in anime as well. Doesn’t that sort of thing creep people out, or is it not really a big issue? And how was it allowed for localization?


Honestly.. It does creep me out sometimes. Especially that part in Magma Diver where Asuka is practically rubbing her breasts in Shinji's face. And I think some more animated shots from that episode creeped me out slighty aswell... I mean, she's 14 for god's sake. Even if she is just a cartoon, I can't help but feel creeped out by it.
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