robersora wrote:We also could just grow up and maybe be not so offended by everything, but this is an Evangelion forum on which most people who are heavily mentally scarred find refuge, so we really should not expect that other people do the heavy lifting for [REDACTED] assholes.

I do hope your memory is as good as mine, when I joined this place, it was not the mental asylum you seem to be so eagerly espousing, with its heart breaking disregard for old faces, with its two-faced pitiless regard for them. It was a place with a dazzling array of personas who'd freely engage in colourful discussions, it was rowdy, it was enlightening, it contributed material! With fair forum rules that catered to no single group, with iron hard rules and expected decorum from both its members and staff, it was an oasis paradise for those who wanted genuine company, I realised at the time that was because of competent administration, it was good. I see none of that now. It's as if I've stepped into one of those fabled red bricked American asylums that now litter America abandoned, what's to happen? Is that the fate that you seek?

Do you consider the usage of slurs/casual sexism to be part of the "dazzling personas" or the "colorful discussions?"

I might be mistaken (correct me if I'm wrong), but I don't think anyone is decrying the translated interviews that Xard (or anyone else, for that matter,) posts on the forum. I think that stuff is amazing! An interview like the one Xard posted is actual "contributed material" for the Eva community, as you put it. Fans like us get to see what the actual filmmakers behind the series think and say about their own work. I especially appreciate it for something like Eva, where much of the discourse among American/English-speaking Eva fans is shrouded by baseless rumors and wild conspiracy theories. It's materials like that which benefit discourse while making for some pretty colorful discussions among people with a wide plethora of dazzling personas. We just don't need to talk like 3rd graders on the playground practicing new dirty words while we discuss things, is all. (If someone's definition of a "dazzling persona" is wrapped entirely around naughty school-yard lingo, then maybe it's time they find a new persona.)

+1

(I don't often do this, but it's well deserved)

FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Do you consider the usage of slurs/casual sexism to be part of the "dazzling personas" or the "colorful discussions?"

I might be mistaken (correct me if I'm wrong), but I don't think anyone is decrying the translated interviews that Xard (or anyone else, for that matter,) posts on the forum. I think that stuff is amazing! An interview like the one Xard posted is actual "contributed material" for the Eva community, as you put it. Fans like us get to see what the actual filmmakers behind the series think and say about their own work. I especially appreciate it for something like Eva, where much of the discourse among American/English-speaking Eva fans is shrouded by baseless rumors and wild conspiracy theories. It's materials like that which benefit discourse while making for some pretty colors discussions among people with a wide plethora of dazzling personas. We just don't need to talk like 3rd graders on the playground practicing new dirty words while we discuss things, is all. (If someone's definition of a "dazzling persona" is wrapped entirely around naughty school-yard lingo, then maybe it's time they find a new persona.)

No one is decrying these contributions in themselves, but the indiscretion of those who respond to Xard, who know him and his persona quite well, understand and appreciate who he is, are quite telling, they care more for the worries of a potential audience which has yet to even materialise, worrying over some ineffectual jokes while forgetting that their entire body of work is littered with such things which they may also find quite offensive, the "it's 2020!" arguments does not work so well when you have a catelogue of work that any person can access at whim at any time, indeed, those who worry over Xard's conduct may have even partook in such things in the past, do you seriously propose that they wouldn't be judged like Xard is being judged over it now?

Those "dazzling personas" that you seem to imply disdain for were folk that you engaged with quite jovially. Oh! What was the clique you were a part of, the "filmf*gs", your comrades so to speak at that time. When I was referring to "dazzling personas", I was also referring to those people, they were by no means third graders, they were some of the most intelligent and able members of off-topic; this... strawman you have constructed does little but insult your own former associates, is that worthy of you? I'm aghast at the idea that I venerate immaturity, quite the opposite, merely I appreciated that everyone was able to hold their own with dignity, that includes you, it's lamentable that we're even having this conversation. We did everything with the implicit understanding that both parties understood the other with the moderation appreciating that notion, even partaking in the conversations, on the contrary, we were quite mature about this subject. Stand for the current policies as you wish, but do know that the mighty institution you think you're standing up for and defending is now a ruin, and it's thanks to its advisors and policy makers!

pwhodges wrote:yes.

pwhodges wrote:+1

(I don't often do this, but it's well deserved)

For a man who scorns such "Channish" behaviour, I'm at a loss for words at your change of heart with these vociferous channish... even reddit enunciations of approval,as I would just in my hey day say... and I'll say it again: good funposts!

I don't think of these people as actual intellectual 3rd graders. (I can't really. As you said, most of them were very intelligent, and many of them are still on the forum to this day, and I don't want to insult people in this forum.) I just said that they sometimes use that sort of language. Very, very smart things can be stated using an attitude that is less than mature.

As for the "FilmF*gs," yes, I did run with that crowd for quite a bit. I certainly remember the days of "Forced Perspective." (God, that was such a catchy name...!) I have a lot of things to say about that experience, but I'll probably PM you about it on Sunday (EST), when I have the time to collect my thoughts. I don't have any dirt or juicy gossip about anyone in that group other than myself, so be prepared for a lot of personal rambling that's been streamlined as much as possible. But, one thing I'll say about that now, that group was loud, "lively" (as you put it), exciting, but also very exhausting from time to time. I remember a lot of shouting matches, heated debates, locked threads-... yikes! Conversations like that are very fun for a very short period of time, and then, like "Forced Perspective" itself, just kinda quickly burn out once all that energy immediately leaves. At least, for me, that's exactly how it happened.

Which leads me to these newer rules. I don't think these newer rules(? for real man, they've been here a while now) are made worrying about "a potential audience which has yet to even materialise," (sic), but are made for the people in the thread as it stands now. I know that I, myself, as someone who burnt himself out on all the rabble-rousing of the "FilmF*gs," (and even as someone who still enjoys a very occasional small bit of hyperbolic posting when certain theories don't quite logically make sense) actually prefer these more chill vibes in the forum right now. Again, I got more to say pertaining to the reasons for all that, and I'll PM you about them Sunday, but I sincerely do not want to go back to the seemingly continuous bar fight that I felt I was in back in those days. (Especially with the political climate on the rest of the internet these days... )

Lastly, I personally would never criticize someone for jokes made 8+ years ago. Comedy ages the fastest, and usually not in a very good way. Sure, there are probably things we're doing right now that we'll look back on 8+ years from now and cringe at. But to go on and on about how "You can't make a Mel Brooks movie anymore" is kinda old hat already. There's a reason why pie-in-the-face jokes don't work in media that well these days, and it's simply because we don't find them funny anymore. That type of comedy has aged poorly, even if only in the simple sense that it's not even funny these days. I'm not gonna judge older works that use pie-in-the-face gags, but wouldn't use them myself in the year 2020. The same thing is true for the more "problematic" senses of humor we've had before; I'm not gonna judge old posts, but that doesn't mean we can't judge newer posts with newer sensibilities. Just like I won't do a pie-in-the-face gag in the year 2020, I probably won't cling to my old senses of humor either, and will still totally have an opinion of anyone else trying to attempt a pie-in-the-face gag today.

Tankred wrote:Why are you mean to someone who hasn't managed to "go with the times"

I honestly don't care about no-no words, depending on the context they can even be funny. BUT Xard has written a fucking manifesto about why my existence is wrong. That's crazy. That's why he doesn't get a pass. It's about context. I wouldn't have tolerated this in 2010, and I won't now. For me it's not a "a 2020 thing". I even tried to give him the benefit of the doubt and tried arguing against people who blew up "Sasuga porn actress" into a huge deal (which it wasn't, policing no-no words and being offended by porn jokes is Neo-Puritanism and solves nothing. You can be an asshole without using mean words, by employing passive aggressiveness for instance. So banning certain words solves nothing, instead how about being nice to each other instead.) But despite him apparently reading our behind the scenes drama, he decided to unearth a post of mine in which I said, "I'll become a Reifag" in a petty attempt to hurt my reputation, I guess.

Now, just to be clear, inability to see the difference between "becoming a Reifag" and a 100 page manifesto that basically suggests that I should be gassed is highly mentally deranged.

I wouldn't evaluate that as an "attack" per se, but I think people who keep acting in such an obviously toxic manner should be banned off the platform. There is a pattern of destructive behavior, and look at the state the forum is now because of three posts by him.
You can scream "censorship" and "virtual segregation" all you want. And I even agree. It is that. But there's simply no place for intolerant fuckerrors who shit on the olive branch I've handed them.

they were some of the most intelligent and able members of off-topic;

You can be intelligent and still act like a disgusting piece of shit. I don't think that just because someone is "useful" a community has to deal with their inability to fit in. There's mental institutions to deal with that. And yes you could argue that every diehard Evafan has more baggage than your average Marvelhead (which I'd contest, lmao), but there's a difference between acting obnoxious because you obviously don't know any better and being purposefully destructive.

I don't see how acting like the proverbial elephant in a china shop can be seen as posting in "good fun", unless you're a 14 year old loser who got bullied in school and needs a place where they spit on other people in the safety of anonymity.

^ That manifesto, tho. That's one of the (many) reasons why the "Sasuga porn actress" comment rang as many alarms as it did. Like, I still consider someone casually bringing up someone else's past sex work as something that's very inconsiderate, (if you gotta mention it at all, it should be in a way that is extremely considerate,) and I addressed it in a way that implied Miyamura's past work wasn't really all that important to this kind of conversation, but the fact that it was posted by someone who writes this terrible paper citing several erroneous sources for the sole purpose of hating on some gays really makes me question the exact intent of his comment on alternate sexual lifestyles. I don't want to sound like I feel that nobody can move on from their mistakes, (and Xard did apologize for that manifesto,) but he has to at least be aware of what kind of behavior he was responsible for back when he posted here more frequently, and how that colors the things he posts now.

And I know some people here might expect me to agree with Xard due to my personal Christian conservative lifestyle, but that's all it is: my personal lifestyle. (My actual politics lean a bit more left-of-center these days.) That's stuff I've decided to do with my own body, and anyone's welcomed to join with me if they want. But I certainly don't try to attack others with a 9,571-word dissertation meant to shout down other people's own consensual, mature lifestyles, and, if Christianity has taught me anything over the past decade, it's that I should be a friend to others, not their enemy. (Jesus was a friend to prostitutes and tax collectors and only attacked arrogant religious leaders, which is an energy that I'm definitely into these days. There are too many actual child-molesting/money-grubbing church leaders out there and way too many marginalized people to befriend for me to be all that concerned about what two grown adults agree to do with each other in bed. If Jesus met Miyamura way back when, he would probably just invite her for coffee somewhere where they would have a really chill and fulfilling conversation, and that's absolutely a vibe with which I'm down.)

Again, I do honestly appreciate Xard's actual, contributing materials that he posts related to the Eva fandom. But if he's gonna slight people with 6-year-old posts and speak in ways that distantly echo his hateful anti-gay manifesto, I really don't have the energy to deal with it. I'd rather just machine translate the original Japanese texts and pretend I understand the linguistic garbage it spits pit on the other end, that's how little energy I have for it.

robersora wrote: BUT Xard has written a fucking manifesto about why my existence is wrong. That's crazy. That's why he doesn't get a pass. It's about context. I wouldn't have tolerated this in 2010, and I won't now. For me it's not a "a 2020 thing". I even tried to give him the benefit of the doubt and tried arguing against people who blew up "Sasuga porn actress" into a huge deal (which it wasn't, policing no-no words and being offended by porn jokes is Neo-Puritanism and solves nothing. You can be an asshole without using mean words, by employing passive aggressiveness for instance. So banning certain words solves nothing, instead how about being nice to each other instead.) But despite him apparently reading our behind the scenes drama, he decided to unearth a post of mine in which I said, "I'll become a Reifag" in a petty attempt to hurt my reputation, I guess.

Now, just to be clear, inability to see the difference between "becoming a Reifag" and a 100 page manifesto that basically suggests that I should be gassed is highly mentally deranged.

I wouldn't evaluate that as an "attack" per se, but I think people who keep acting in such an obviously toxic manner should be banned off the platform. There is a pattern of destructive behavior, and look at the state the forum is now because of three posts by him.
You can scream "censorship" and "virtual segregation" all you want. And I even agree. It is that. But there's simply no place for intolerant fuckerrors who shit on the olive branch I've handed them.

You have never explicitly offered an olive branch, you've consistently slandered Xard since he wrote his essay in late October 2014. You've never even bothered to read excerpts of it since, What does the title of this ESSAY say?:


Giving it a cursory glance even now, looking through it with the find feature, nowhere is Xard advocating for violence, that you still insist on this amounts to libel.

You've even recklessly implied him to be behind the DDOS attack earlier this year, without any evidence but your own prejudice, while he was still a member of the inner forum like you I might add!

FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Which leads me to these newer rules. I don't think these newer rules(? for real man, they've been here a while now) are made worrying about "a potential audience which has yet to even materialise," (sic), but are made for the people in the thread as it stands now. I know that I, myself, as someone who burnt himself out on all the rabble-rousing of the "FilmF*gs," (and even as someone who still enjoys a very occasional small bit of hyperbolic posting when certain theories don't quite logically make sense) actually prefer these more chill vibes in the forum right now. Again, I got more to say pertaining to the reasons for all that, and I'll PM you about them Sunday, but I sincerely do not want to go back to the seemingly continuous bar fight that I felt I was in back in those days. (Especially with the political climate on the rest of the internet these days... )

Chill? This place is a morgue. Appreciate the passive aggressive (sic), duly noted.

FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:^ That manifesto, tho. That's one of the (many) reasons why the "Sasuga porn actress" comment rang as many alarms as it did. Like, I still consider someone casually bringing up someone else's past sex work as something that's very inconsiderate, (if you gotta mention it at all, it should be in a way that is extremely considerate,) and I addressed it in a way that implied Miyamura's past work wasn't really all that important to this kind of conversation, but the fact that it was posted by someone who writes this terrible paper citing several erroneous sources for the sole purpose of hating on some gays really makes me question the exact intent of his comment on alternate sexual lifestyles. I don't want to sound like I feel that nobody can move on from their mistakes, (and Xard did apologize for that manifesto,) but he has to at least be aware of what kind of behavior he was responsible for back when he posted here more frequently, and how that colors the things he posts now.

And I know some people here might expect me to agree with Xard due to my personal Christian conservative lifestyle, but that's all it is: my personal lifestyle. (My actual politics lean a bit more left-of-center these days.) That's stuff I've decided to do with my own body, and anyone's welcomed to join with me if they want. But I certainly don't try to attack others with a 9,571-word dissertation meant to shout down other people's own consensual, mature lifestyles, and, if Christianity has taught me anything over the past decade, it's that I should be a friend to others, not their enemy. (Jesus was a friend to prostitutes and tax collectors and only attacked arrogant religious leaders, which is an energy that I'm definitely into these days. There are too many actual child-molesting/money-grubbing church leaders out there and way too many marginalized people to befriend for me to be all that concerned about what two grown adults agree to do with each other in bed. If Jesus met Miyamura way back when, he would probably just invite her for coffee somewhere where they would have a really chill and fulfilling conversation, and that's absolutely a vibe with which I'm down.)

Again, I do honestly appreciate Xard's actual, contributing materials that he posts related to the Eva fandom. But if he's gonna slight people with 6-year-old posts and speak in ways that distantly echo his hateful anti-gay manifesto, I really don't have the energy to deal with it. I'd rather just machine translate the original Japanese texts and pretend I understand the linguistic garbage it spits pit on the other end, that's how little energy I have for it.

You bemoan him bringing up six year old posts and then cite his six year old post to imply bad of him yourself in the very same sentence, which by the way, was posted in 2014!
You mean to say that every klaxon went off because Xard of all people made an off colour joke about Miyamura's past amateur work informing the conversation in the translation, and now you're twisting this into some serious spiel which links into his oft sensationalized piece on his opposition to gay marriage, that hardly seems fair if we maturely attempt to dissect what actually transpired:

Xard publishes translation with off colour remark, dispensing with the cordialities, mods and advisors publically remonstrate him, instead of tactfully handling the situation with a properly worded personal message it instead escalates into this tit-for-tat charade, Robersora and others were used in the reply to exemplify the critique of this policing of language, that was less a personal criticism and more of an overall indictment of this progressively tightening policing of language and disregard for whatever intentions were actually behind words held in contempt. You can mock my attitude for this but back when I was posting daily on this forum, this blatant antagonism and lack of tact was seen as below the mod team, if someone was out of order, it was taken to private forwith!

FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:And I know some people here might expect me to agree with Xard due to my personal Christian conservative lifestyle, but that's all it is: my personal lifestyle. (My actual politics lean a bit more left-of-center these days.) That's stuff I've decided to do with my own body, and anyone's welcomed to join with me if they want. But I certainly don't try to attack others with a 9,571-word dissertation meant to shout down other people's own consensual, mature lifestyles, and, if Christianity has taught me anything over the past decade, it's that I should be a friend to others, not their enemy. (Jesus was a friend to prostitutes and tax collectors and only attacked arrogant religious leaders, which is an energy that I'm definitely into these days. There are too many actual child-molesting/money-grubbing church leaders out there and way too many marginalized people to befriend for me to be all that concerned about what two grown adults agree to do with each other in bed. If Jesus met Miyamura way back when, he would probably just invite her for coffee somewhere where they would have a really chill and fulfilling conversation, and that's absolutely a vibe with which I'm down.)

Did you really need to add this tangent? Don't grand stand about your religiosity in this way, for your own sake. Hubris isn't healthy.

There's a difference between someone changing up posting habits since 2014, and someone's posting style having been established since 2014. And, if you'll read the original thread from which you seem to try to be discussing, I personally never referenced anything from Xard's past in the conversation proper, and only post about it here as a way to discuss why others may feel a certain way about him. (Even then, I only did so after Xard expressly decided to cherry-pick and misrepresent specific parts of the past in the way he did with his later posts in said thread. I think you'll agree with me that full context is key to any part of anyone's history, correct?) However, I may have had no business attempting to explain any of that to begin with, so from here on out I'll leave it to others to explain why they feel about certain forum users. I don't recall ever feeling personally attacked by Xard, and even encouraged his posting of more translated materials in the original thread. If you're trying to make me out to be some sort of bad guy because I'm shouting down at Xard, well, I'm not, so please don't. As for why others may have responded in a more aggressive way towards Xard, you may want to PM those forum users specifically.

Lastly, if you want me to perform the bar-fight-esque atmosphere that was the signature of olden posting days, please look to other forum users. Or, simply wait around until the next "Rebuild" movie comes out, and people are ranting and raving about the confirmation or denial of any "Time Loop Theory" people have been fixated upon, and have argued to death for literal years. Or, perhaps, please start one yourself? I'm woking full-time on several different projects, so I don't really have a lot of time myself to be facilitating those kinds of discussions, and the (admittedly dumber) topics I do want to discuss seem to attract no one to the conversation, so whatever. (I'll probably die without anyone really being all the interested in my silly "Mari is a miniature Eva Unit" or "'Rebuild' takes place in Pen-Pen's mind" theories.) Honestly, I believe the main cause to the inactivity to the forum as a whole is the slow pace upon which these newer movies are released, which means that any theory that's been proposed by fans has already been talked to death without any real conclusively being offered to those discussions, and no theory stemming from the viewing on the entire series can't be made and argued for since that is a current impossibility. You mentioned earlier that the Off Topic sub forum was where a lot of the more "lively" conversations were happening, but honestly most of those conversations became increasingly political, ended up spawning a "Serious Discussion" sub forum, that sub forum blew up in everyone's face, caused the whole sub forum to be locked, and inspiring the creation of an entirely different forum that nobody (myself included) felt the energy to go on and discuss a whole lot of things anymore. My point being, an outlet was created for these types of discussions that was moderated by someone who offered to spend his time making sure that everyone there would behave, and nobody stuck around for that opportunity. Their decision to walk away from a place where those types of lively discussions could be had more often is placed squarely on their own shoulders.

Tankred wrote:You have never explicitly offered an olive branch, you've consistently slandered Xard since he wrote his essay in late October 2014. You've never even bothered to read excerpts of it since

look, I don't have the time to engage with the ramblings of a homophobe. Why would I engage with a person who actively campaigns against my rights as a human being? True, my olive branch wasn't particularly offered to him (as I didn't know he was reading the Modthread), but I *did* try to argue in his favor (at least in the Sasuga Porn Actress Gate, as I thought this particular "controversy" was ridiculous). It's funny, that you hate me because I hate him, because Reichu hates me as well, since her brain melted down by the notion that censoring words won't alleviate any problems. Which was why I argued for observing the situation. But then I read that he's still being toxic af, not even trying to understand why some people were upset, so I changed my stance and was in favor of banning him. As you can see, he stirred a lot of trouble, so maybe I should have been clearer from the beginning. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Tankred wrote:Giving it a cursory glance even now, looking through it with the find feature, nowhere is Xard advocating for violence, that you still insist on this amounts to libel

Looking at the title, it's beyond me that this is not to be evaluated as an attack to my rights as a gay guy.

Tankred wrote:You've even recklessly implied him to be behind the DDOS attack earlier this year, without any evidence but your own prejudice, while he was still a member of the inner forum like you I might add!

*insert audience gasping noise*

Sorry, but the sheer level of childish pettiness this accusation carries is kinda funny, not gonna lie.
Like, you accuse me of libeling, and then spread misinformation about me in the very next sentence. I remember saying that it might have been a disgruntled user, but I wasn't even thinking of Xard, as he was not on my radar at the time. I was thinking of no one in particular, I was just asking if that could be the case, due to me having no idea about how Computer(attack)s work whatsoever.
But you do you, lol.

Just interested, what essay did Xard write in 2014? Is it still here or has been taken down?

I don't suggest you read it, so I won't find and link it. It was a long multi-part diatribe against gay marriage and the concept of gayness itself, from a fundamentalist religious point of view. It upset a fair number of people who felt personally attacked by it, and some left the forum entirely as a result.

^ I mean, if people wanna argue that this forum isn’t as lively as it used to be, it’s practically because Xard and forum users like him chased a lot of dazzling personas out of this arena of discussion.

And apparently dazzling personas don’t even have to be gay in order for that kind of vitriol to be spewed at them. Remember that time a forum user angrily chased away Amanda Winn-Lee? It’s discourse like that which partially lead to this forum being more quiet than it used to be. It’s difficult to have a lively discussion if the dazzling personas that wanna chat on this forum keep feeling attacked.

I see. Well, now knowing what it specifically is, I'm not interested in reading it, since as I see no problem with homosexuality, reading a long anti-homo essay is not a way I'd like to spend my time (especially if it's from a religious point of view).

I know this isn't the right place to ask but may I please be given an account on the wiki? It's been a couple of days and I have a feeling an admission won't come passively when this ghost town of a forum is debating the merits of a homophobic diatribe from 2014.

Zusuchan wrote:Just interested, what essay did Xard write in 2014? Is it still here or has been taken down?

Some shit about homosexuality being bad because something something ontological idealism.

Needless to say, it was bad and long.

I am not surprised to see that this place has continued its way down the downward spiral of oppressive moderation and political witch hunts since I left over 5 years ago. Remember that real life friend of Xard's who posted only in off-topic? Yeah, that was me.

Absolutely spontaneously and secretly banning Xard and several members just because they were considered to be his friends convinces me that leaving this place was the right thing to do. I just dropped in by to point out that the exodus of significant members is unjustly blamed on Xard when the fact is that way more people have vanished due to the cutthroat moderation that has snuffed out anyone who even dares to think differently and has allowed reckless behaviour from users as long as they don't break the harmony of the comfortable echo chamber. I foresaw no change to this and left because it allowed no room for proper discussion.

So yeah, long time no see and you won't hear from me again: the ban hammer will swing again just because I'm stepping on a nerve by defending Xard.

Freud:
What exactly do you mean by ''account''?

Zusuchan wrote:Freud:
What exactly do you mean by ''account''?

You need an account in the wiki to edit it; these are set up manually, so it may take a few days if no one suitable is around to do it when the request is made.

Oh, thanks. I was just confused for a moment.