Q sucks and Anno hates you [split]

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Re: Q sucks and Anno hates you [split]

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Postby Settie » Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:38 pm

Yeah i don't see Kaworu as evil but rather as a classic road to hell is paved with good intentions type thing. He may have wanted Shinjis happiness (w/e that was in his mind) and did everything to get there. If that included misleading and omitting information from Shinji then so be it. There's too many inconsistencies with what Kaworu says versus what is seen to not reach a conclusion that, in a sense, manipulating Shinji was ok as long as the end result was happy.

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Postby LightDragonman » Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:33 am

I'd like to believe you guys, but given just how many rewrites and the like were involved in 3.33's production, along with Anno's re-emerged depression during its development, I can only come to the conclusion that he did indeed retcon what happened in 2.22's ending and him saving Rei did indeed lead to the deaths of millions.

Plus again, it lines up quite nicely with how much Anno despises Rei and those her don't view her as a symbol for escapism like he does.
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Re: Q sucks and Anno hates you [split]

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:48 am

^ I don't think Anno ever admitted that 1) Rei represents escapism, or 2) Anno hates escapism. So far your belief that Anno despises Rei is based on other fan interpretations of Eva. Basing your theory on fan interpretations isn't a bad thing, per sé, but it isn't a very solid approach, especially for a series that isn't even finished yet. I personally think that if Anno hated Rei, then he never would have written the character to begin with. If he only began hating Rei by Eva Q, then he missed the chance to write her out entirely, still dropping hints and clues that she's still around. (Remember that scene in Eva Q where there were two Reis staring at each other? Someone who hates a character probably wouldn't write a scene solely featuring multiple versions of that character, especially of they already had the opportunity to kill them off entirely.)

Also, I personally question if Anno hates escapism. I mean, he directed a live-action Cutie Honey movie before diving back into Evangelion, and you don't get more escapist than a robot magic girl who glows and sparkles as she reveals a bit of skin while transforming her clothes to disguise her appearance. (And then fights a bunch of ninjas and monsters with her magically-appearing arsenal of weaponry.) That movie is pretty wild, and, if you're ever feeling depressed, I 100% recommend watching Anno's Cutie Honey movie. It is pretty heavily marinated in absurd escapism.

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:I mean I’m in the “Kaworu’s feelings for Shinji were genuine the whole time and he was mislead into providing Shinji with false hope because Gendo really has thought it all out”camp. I’ve personally never found the “Kaworu is evil” narrative to be compelling nor have I ever been sold on it but I’ll always listen.

That could be the case. Folks like Kaworu and Rei are notoriously bad at reading social cues, so it's difficult to get a sense of their exact intentions when they speak of certain things.

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Re: Q sucks and Anno hates you [split]

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Postby LightDragonman » Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:24 am

It more has to do with the fact that Anno decided to frame Shinji's act of saving Rei as the worst possible decision he could have made, as he was basically choosing an escapist fantasy with his waifu over accepting reality by letting her die. His decision caused Third Impact to start after all, and uless the next movie says otherwise, the death of millions.

Not to mention how Anno did everything in his power to basically tear down Rei into a shallow husk of what she used to be with Rei Q, almost as if he was trying to get people to hate her as much as he does while propping up Kaworu and Asuka as the ones everyone should like, since those are his preferred characters (and if the fan polls are any indication, he succeeded). Heck, I don't expect him to give 2.0 Rei even the benefit of a proper sendoff, given his hatred for the character. I see him professing his hatred for her much more in the way he treated her in 3.0 actually than if he just wrote her off.

And sure, his Cutie Honey movie was all escapist and all that. But remember that he once again fell into a depression while making 3.0, and as such, I wouldn't be surprised if he once again began to absolutely despise escapism, and in extension, characters like Rei.
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Re: Q sucks and Anno hates you [split]

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Postby pwhodges » Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:38 am

If you think of Rei as an ordinary girl (though who in Eva is ordinary??), then you might feel that Rei-Q is a cut-down husk. However, Rei is a complex constructed being many of who's details we are still unsure about, and the version of Rei in Q is adding another layer of complexity to her for us to mull over. Quite a lot of trouble for Anno to go to if he hates her, I'd say.
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Re: Q sucks and Anno hates you [split]

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Postby TheFriskyIan » Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:02 am

View Original PostLightDragonman wrote:Not to mention how Anno did everything in his power to basically tear down Rei into a shallow husk of what she used to be with Rei Q, almost as if he was trying to get people to hate her as much as he does while propping up Kaworu and Asuka as the ones everyone should like, since those are his preferred characters (and if the fan polls are any indication, he succeeded). Heck, I don't expect him to give 2.0 Rei even the benefit of a proper sendoff, given his hatred for the character. I see him professing his hatred for her much more in the way he treated her in 3.0 actually than if he just wrote her off.

I don't think a writer would hate a character just because they're in an unpleasant place/situation. Anno most certainly doesn't hate Shinji yet he is the character that has probably suffered the most out of the story. Anno is simply putting the characters where they need to be; and in the case of Shinji & Rei, it's probably for their own good. I wouldn't assume malicious intent just yet on the part of Anno since these characters are still alive and can only go up from where they currently are.
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Re: Q sucks and Anno hates you [split]

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:48 am

LightDragonman wrote:And sure, his Cutie Honey movie was all escapist and all that. But remember that he once again fell into a depression while making 3.0, and as such, I wouldn't be surprised if he once again began to absolutely despise escapism, and in extension, characters like Rei.


I mean at that point Anno had been working on Eva nonstop for close to a decade. He was exhausted and took a break. Since then he got to recharge his batteries starring as the lead character in a Hayao Miyazaki film, shepherded over 35 original short animated films and directed a kickass Godzilla movie. Expecting the same mindset he had in 3.0 is folly. Not to mention Anno has always been great at endings.

The melodrama is silly.

I ultimately think Thrice Upon A Time is ultimately going to be an uplifting one.
Good way to approach things:

End of Evangelion opens with the main character having just attempted suicide and then going to a stark almost colorless hospital room where completely distraught he masturbates to the comatose body of his once female roommate and friend.

Thrice Upon A Time opens with a super colorful, high-energy and thrilling ten minute action sequence where a team working together are able to defeat insurmountable odds, come out victorious and save the city of Paris.

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Re: Q sucks and Anno hates you [split]

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Postby Keiji » Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:01 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:End of Evangelion opens with the main character having just attempted suicide and then going to a stark almost colorless hospital room where completely distraught he masturbates to the comatose body of his once female roommate and friend.


Fantastic opening if you ask me. ^_^

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:23 pm

Keiji wrote:Fantastic opening if you ask me.


Oh it's an opening I absolutely love!
And it's the perfect way to start a dark movie where the world ends, your favorite characters are violently blown to bits + ripped to shreds by monstrous creatures, where all societies vanish and it all climaxes with your "hero" strangling that same friend on a lonely beach in a post-apocalyptic Earth.

And it's why I doubt the new ending movie that starts with an action heavy adventure in Paris where the heroes win is going to end up as a story where everyone suffers and our protagonist is left a crying abandoned wreck with no one to turn too like some of the more melodramatic people on here seem to immediately assume the film will ultimately be.

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Re: Q sucks and Anno hates you [split]

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Postby Keiji » Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:36 pm

You are probably right. Still hope we will get some twisted dark Evangelion style in it.

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Re: Q sucks and Anno hates you [split]

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Postby kuribo-04 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:46 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:^ I don't think Anno ever admitted that 1) Rei represents escapism, or 2) Anno hates escapism.

Anno actually said in that Parano book (or the onther one) that Eva is about how sometimes you should escape. I think in Eva Anno is mostly juggling with all these thoughts, not presenting a definitive answer.
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