Confusion Regarding Episode 1

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Confusion Regarding Episode 1

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Postby Kamon-san » Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:28 am

Good morning,

Lately I've been re-watching Eva on Netflix. I think the last time I watched the show fully was about... two years ago? I feel like it's been an eternity since I last wrote anything on this message board. A few years ago I had become so obsessed with Eva that I was at the point where I was taking screenshots of every single piece of background/scenery/weapon and studying their design, but my Eva craze mellowed out and returned to ''normal levels'' after that.

Anyway, I don't know why I felt the need for this introduction since my question is pretty straightforward, but eh. I guess it felt unnatural to just jump into asking questions without at least SOME form of actual greeting. SO. Question time:

-My question is regarding episode 1. When Shinji comes to meet his father at his request, it JUST SO HAPPENS that Sachiel shows up on the same day. Because of that they have no time to prepare Shinji and they pretty much have to just throw him into battle without any training. This is a huge gamble but it ends up working in their favor since Eva 01 goes berserk and destroys Sachiel. How convenient.

My main source of confusion is this: we later find out that it seems like SEELE and Gendo Ikari have a pretty clear idea of how things will play out. I almost get the impression that they know when Angels will make their appearance. Why would Gendo wait so long to contact Shinji and ask him to pilot the Eva?

Did NERV wait so long because ''The Marduk Institute'' still had not declared Shinji the Third Child? We later find out the Marduk Institute is a fabrication, so there would be no reason for Gendo to wait for that before asking Shinji to become a pilot.

Was it because Gendo tried to get Shinji to come to Tokyo 3 several times before and it took Shinji all this time to make up his mind? You'd think that an organization like NERV would have means to contact Shinji easily, perhaps by sending some officials to his teacher's residence to have a word with him. Gendo could've even sent Misato directly to get Shinji at his teacher's place and explain the situation to him, I'm sure.

We know that NERV tried to activate Eva 00 before the events of episode 1 and that they already had a pilot in training in Germany (Asuka), so they already knew they had two pilots (this is why Shinji is called ''Third Child''). Does that mean that the reason why Gendo waited so long to ask Shinji to become the pilot of Eva 01 was because he figured he didn't need him since he already had Eva 00 and Rei? (and that he knew Eva 02 was almost complete?) Gendo places SO MUCH importance on Eva 01, I doubt he would've put all his faith on Eva 00 and Rei only.

Long story short: I don't understand why it took so long for Gendo to call out to Shinji. If the answer is ''because of their strained relationship'' I don't buy into it at all. Gendo is far too calculating to keep pushing back such an important part of his plan; he would've taken measures to ensure Shinji would pilot Eva 01, even is his son initially ignored his demands.

I don't know if I'm making sense or if I'm missing a crucial bit of information. I feel like I missed something. @[email protected]

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Re: Confusion Regarding Episode 1

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Postby Derantor » Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:43 pm

It was really just a coincidence. They know that the angels will appear - possibly in which order, but not exactly when. It just so happened that the first one appeared right when Shinji was finally brought to NERV.

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Re: Confusion Regarding Episode 1

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Postby Kamon-san » Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:28 pm

Pure coincidence, huh? I see. I imagine that regardless of the circumstances that led to Shinji making it Tokyo 3 on that specific day, it could be by pure coincidence that Sachiel showed up when it did.

I realize after thinking back on this whole thing that the main reason I got confused is probably because I seem to have misinterpreted just how much SEELE and Gendo knew. I think the ONE thing in the entire series that still confuses me the most is that, actually. I never quite got a clear idea of how much of what happens goes ''according to plan'' for Gendo or SEELE.

...it's like the show gave me the impression that Gendo was someone who liked to plan everything ahead and always knew what would happen. Thinking back on how things went down in the series I now realize my impression was wrong; that man leaves A LOT to chance. Most of the operations involving the Evas always have ridiculously slim chances of being successful, yet he never objects to them.

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Re: Confusion Regarding Episode 1

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Postby Derantor » Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:27 pm

Yeah, it is totally unclear what they know exactly, and trying to make sense of it gives me a headache. The Ghagiel attack was described as deviating slightly from their predictions - but if they suspected the attack, why not send all three Evas, or at least have one or both pilots on stand-by? It was just pure coincedence that Asuka felt the need to show off to Shinji at the right moment. Or, I don't know, send B-Type Equipment so that Unit 02 can fight underwater if combat is expected on the open sea? And if that is impossible, why not delay the fleet or send Unit 02 like they did Unit 03: By plane? If they knew the attack would happen, they clearly did want the encounter then and there, yet they didn't seem to prepare for it beyond the basics.

(Btw, maybe you can help me. I could have sworn there was a scene where Gendo said that he "even provided a spare", meaning that he send Shinji to the fleet. Or was that in some fan-fiction I read, and got mixed up with the series?)

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Re: Confusion Regarding Episode 1

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Postby AWinters » Sat Aug 15, 2020 7:37 pm

I got the impression that the dates are included in the Dead Sea Scrolls, which are possessed by Seele. I figured that Gendo wanted him there on the same day to apply the pressure of the emergency in progress to push him into piloting. He probably knew he wouldn't have done it otherwise.

I recently thought up another theory that I'm trying to unravel (bear with me to the end, trust me, it's all relevant). I'll start with a quick background brief that lead me to the new theory:

When a moon landed on a planet, the living being inside was equipped with a lance that was to be used to stun the fertility of any other beings who landed there so that only one could populate that planet. Adam was the rightful inhabitant because he landed first, but when Lilith landed, she used the lance on him and populated the earth herself.

The second impact occurred when the lance was removed from Adam.

Now, imagine this;

Before the lance was removed, the lower half of him had already been cut away in large pieces and taken back to a NERV base while he was helplessly pinned by the lance (just like Lilith in Central Dogma).

After the second impact, the lance was recovered, taken back to NERV and reinserted into the salvaged lower half.
With his lower body (including his seed) they were growing Evas in petri dishes. His upper body had self distructed, causing the second impact and it reverted back into an embryo.

In 2015 the lance was taken from Adam because Seele ordered that Lilith was to be lanced instead (for whatever reason) which would leave Adam fertile, allowing the next angel to be born, creating the rites for Angels to begin taking the Earth back.

This would have given NERV a short warning of "Adam's seed is reactivated, expect the next angel imminently".
At this time, Gendo would have made contact with Shinji who had to pack and make his own way there, but the angel was almost there by the time Shinji stepped off the train.

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Re: Confusion Regarding Episode 1

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Postby Reichu » Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:49 pm

Adam is intact at Second Impact -- there's a lower body, the staff say that she is walking (i.e. has legs), and Adam's individual steps can be heard.

Image

Can't comment much on the rest because my idea of how the Spears work is completely different.
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Re: Confusion Regarding Episode 1

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Postby AWinters » Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:06 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:Can't comment much on the rest because my idea of how the Spears work is completely different.


I read your take on it and it's impressive. I think our theories can coexist though. The lance has the power to impregnate a being upon removal, but also halts reproduction when it's left in.

Some of my thoughts here came to me after reading your take.
I think it took a week or two to get the lance away from its location and loaded onto the ship. Although I'm making guesses at what actually happened in Germany, I do believe that removing the lance from its location had everything to do with the Angels returning and Shinji being summoned just in time.

I found the information about the lance existing to stop the seeds of other beings on an Eva info site or Wiki site or something, I'll be sure to go back and check for sources, which I hadn't done.
IF it's verified, the lance probably works both ways, supporting your theory (puts a seed to sleep when it goes in and impregnates as it comes out).

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Re: Confusion Regarding Episode 1

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Postby C.T.1290 » Sun Aug 16, 2020 4:03 pm

I think the answer lies with the Dead Sea Scrolls, as someone had pointed out here. They basically prophesied the coming of the angels and the events that will happen. The reason Gendo waited so long to contact Shinji was because that was the same day the angel Sachiel decided to show up, so Gendo was basically prepared for that event know that NERV had been established for the sole purpose of defeating the angels.

It was all the matter of time. All part of their plan.
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Re: Confusion Regarding Episode 1

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Postby UrsusArctos » Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:08 am

To answer the OP's question, I don't think it's a coincidence.

First, Gendo took so long to call out to Shinji because he wanted to let things work with Rei first, but the first Eva-00 berserk incident during activation meant that the Eva was frozen and Rei was severely injured. It's not clear just how long this happened before Sachiel's attack, but plainly not long, otherwise Rei would have been sent up against Sachiel in Eva-00 or possibly even Eva-01 if they'd completed an activation test. So Gendo had no reason to call out to Shinji, and Gendo actively doesn't want to be near Shinji because he's so convinced that he'll do nothing but hurt his son, even if his continued rejection of his son is actually more destructive than anything else (Yui calls him out on the idiocy of this in EoE before chomping down on him as phantom Eva-01).

Second, a large number of Angels are detected out at a distance. The UN has patrolling warships that do just that - Israfel was explicitly detected by the patrolling warship Haruna in Episode 09. Sachiel could have been detected offshore a while before he made landfall, enough time for Gendo to realize he needed to call Shinji and get him in Eva-01. The enormous welcome mat rolled out for Sachiel suggests that the UN had been expecting the Angels to appear for a while now, and brought it all out as soon as they detected him and calculated his point of landfall. Not that all that tank and aircraft fire did anything good, but it shows that they were expecting trouble and had time to prepare when they heard about it, and Gendo was in the right place to take over from his ineffectual JSSDF superiors when they figured out they had nothing that could stop an Angel.

Put A and B together, and it's no surprise that Gendo called Shinji right when the situation was desperate enough to warrant it, and it's no surprise that he arrived right on the heels of Sachiel's landfall. That he'd happen to be in the exact same neighborhood as the Angel when it turned up and started stomping around really was contrived, but the general setup of racing to get Shinji in the Eva before the Angel could do serious damage or break into the Geofront seems pretty logical given the circumstances, IMHO.
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Re: Confusion Regarding Episode 1

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Postby Analyzor » Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:36 pm

View Original PostKamon-san wrote:Good morning,

Lately I've been re-watching Eva on Netflix. I think the last time I watched the show fully was about... two years ago? I feel like it's been an eternity since I last wrote anything on this message board. A few years ago I had become so obsessed with Eva that I was at the point where I was taking screenshots of every single piece of background/scenery/weapon and studying their design, but my Eva craze mellowed out and returned to ''normal levels'' after that.

Anyway, I don't know why I felt the need for this introduction since my question is pretty straightforward, but eh. I guess it felt unnatural to just jump into asking questions without at least SOME form of actual greeting. SO. Question time:

-My question is regarding episode 1. When Shinji comes to meet his father at his request, it JUST SO HAPPENS that Sachiel shows up on the same day. Because of that they have no time to prepare Shinji and they pretty much have to just throw him into battle without any training. This is a huge gamble but it ends up working in their favor since Eva 01 goes berserk and destroys Sachiel. How convenient.

My main source of confusion is this: we later find out that it seems like SEELE and Gendo Ikari have a pretty clear idea of how things will play out. I almost get the impression that they know when Angels will make their appearance. Why would Gendo wait so long to contact Shinji and ask him to pilot the Eva?

Did NERV wait so long because ''The Marduk Institute'' still had not declared Shinji the Third Child? We later find out the Marduk Institute is a fabrication, so there would be no reason for Gendo to wait for that before asking Shinji to become a pilot.

Was it because Gendo tried to get Shinji to come to Tokyo 3 several times before and it took Shinji all this time to make up his mind? You'd think that an organization like NERV would have means to contact Shinji easily, perhaps by sending some officials to his teacher's residence to have a word with him. Gendo could've even sent Misato directly to get Shinji at his teacher's place and explain the situation to him, I'm sure.

We know that NERV tried to activate Eva 00 before the events of episode 1 and that they already had a pilot in training in Germany (Asuka), so they already knew they had two pilots (this is why Shinji is called ''Third Child''). Does that mean that the reason why Gendo waited so long to ask Shinji to become the pilot of Eva 01 was because he figured he didn't need him since he already had Eva 00 and Rei? (and that he knew Eva 02 was almost complete?) Gendo places SO MUCH importance on Eva 01, I doubt he would've put all his faith on Eva 00 and Rei only.

Long story short: I don't understand why it took so long for Gendo to call out to Shinji. If the answer is ''because of their strained relationship'' I don't buy into it at all. Gendo is far too calculating to keep pushing back such an important part of his plan; he would've taken measures to ensure Shinji would pilot Eva 01, even is his son initially ignored his demands.

I don't know if I'm making sense or if I'm missing a crucial bit of information. I feel like I missed something. @[email protected]


I think that SEELE and Gendo knew when the Angels were about to arrive, Fuyutsuki tells Yui that it will be about 15 years for the Angels to show up. Rei is very injured because of the last test with EVA00 and Asuka is still training in Germany. After seeing that Rei wouldn't be recovered in time he told Shinji to come over. Arriving the same day the Angel attacks can be either because of luck or rushing time.

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Re: Confusion Regarding Episode 1

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Postby whisperwind777 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:56 am

The Seele explains the Angels' intention as wiping out humanity by reunifying with Adam which was discovered later by Misato to be a lie in order to manipulate the UN and the governments.
But the truth is: the Angels' targets have always been the EVA units, especially EVA 01. The Angels only retaliate other millitary units. However, when it comes to the EVA units, the Angels always make the first aggressive move whether or not the EVA units pose a threat. Even a fake EVA balloon is not torlerable to the Angels.
If the Angels' plan were to reunify with Adam, their behavier would have been much different. When EVA 01 were down, the Angels could have gone straight for the Central Dogma. But NO. They insisted on destroying EVA 01. However, when EVA 01 is not active, which means she refuses to sync with pilots, Angels lost their ability to even sense her.
Also, the Angels have a strong will to destroy NERV too, as if they knew NERV is responsible for EVA 01's creation.
So the conculsion is: Shinji's encounter with Sachiel was never Gendo's plan. It was Shinji's arrival in Tokyo 3 caused Unit 01's awakening which waked up Sachiel. Shinji's own ATF was too weak to raise the attention of the Angels. However, Rei 3 the awakened, who also appeared in Ep24 and EOE, had such a powerful ATF that, although she teleported near Shinji for just a couple of seconds, she managed to draw the attention of Sachiel which almost got Shinji killed.


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