The idea of a timeloop

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Re: The idea of a timeloop

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Postby ShinjiStranglesAsuka » Sun Aug 23, 2020 4:36 pm

View Original Postdzzthink wrote:The concept of re-setting everything and everyone having amnesia in the manga ending is interesting, no?


I personally don't think it's interesting at all. It's just a big cop out really. What's the point of having Shinji and co. go through all these traumatic experiences and grow as people if you're just going to undo all of that with a shitty reset mechanic? What exactly does that teach the target audience? How does it fulfill Eva's trademark theme of facing reality?

Although considering how prevalent the loop theory was for a while it seems like some people are just fine with resetting the world, themes be damned.

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Re: The idea of a timeloop

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Postby Reichu » Sun Aug 23, 2020 4:44 pm

dzzthink: I would need to relocate the source, but I distinctly remember hearing something to the effect that "Sadamoto struggled with the manga ending because his original plans were too much like the new movies, so he had to come up with something different".

The manga's ending isn't a reset or anything. Yui says that she will watch Shinji be reborn over and over again, and the petrified MP Evas are regarded as a relic of the past. So the manga's last chapter skips forward into the future, where the characters have achieved another cycle of reincarnation.

Reset endings are increasingly a discredited trope because they make the entire story meaningless and without consequence. If you haven't read the entire thread, you should -- these issues get discussed.

(The same basic "timeloop" discussion has been hashed out more times than I can count over the years. The real loop is right here...)

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Re: The idea of a timeloop

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Postby dzzthink » Sun Aug 23, 2020 5:06 pm

Thanks for your prompt reply. My first-time posting on Evageeks, so my bad if they don't follow the protocol, or if I skipped through this thread a little. Didn't think the time-loop theory was that relevant these days, so I thought I'd throw out a few crazy ideas. Really interesting browsing through the threads and analysing the heck out of EVA.I thought the 'Theory and Analysis:Sequel Theory Counter-Evidence' was an interesting read.

'Rebuild', 'reset', 're-incarnation', it all like a snake biting its own tail isn't it? :D
Last edited by dzzthink on Sun Aug 23, 2020 5:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The idea of a timeloop

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Postby Reichu » Sun Aug 23, 2020 5:23 pm

Oh god, that page is available?! :cringe: I started it years ago and gave up when I realized that instead of denying a bad idea by pointing to how the "evidence" is actually just hints about the internal backstory of NTE itself, I could just be writing direct analysis on the backstory itself. Which I *am* doing now instead, I suppose. To very very delicious results.
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Re: The idea of a timeloop

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Postby Shun » Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:57 am

The manga ending is a karma-loop from past to the future, not a time-loop past-future-past. A necessary and sufficient condition for a time-loop is the rewinding of time backwards. In the manga this thing doesn't happen, but, as Yui says "all life has in itself the strength to restore itself", so life is reborn in the future in a world that has been restored. MP Evas are relics of the past. The cycle of deaths and rebirths is clearly a reference to the Samsara of Hinduism and Buddhism, a cycle from past to the future. As for Yui and Mari in the extra chapter, Sadamoto said that these are things he invented.

2016 interview
https://wavemotioncannon.com/2017/02/21/the-current-status-of-gainax-interview-hiroyuki-yamaga-yoshiyuki-sadamoto-september-2016/

@Reichu: can you find the source of Sadamoto's statement?
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Re: The idea of a timeloop

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Postby Reichu » Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:01 am

I can't find anything. I was hoping that maybe someone else knew what I was thinking of, but unless a source can be found, take it with a giant pinch of salt.
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Re: The idea of a timeloop

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Postby dzzthink » Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:58 pm

I want to add another possible explanation for why the title is Evangelion 3.0+1.0 rather than Evangelion 4.0 that doesn't relate to a time-loop. In both Chinese and Japanese, the word 'four' sounds similar to 'death' (shi in Japanese), so it is generally considered bad luck. Rather than just being mere superstition, this could suggest that the film is intentionally avoiding any association with death for symbolic reasons. Also, the '+' sign represents bonding, restoration, and a new chapter. Maybe this final film is going to be more positive and avoids the dark nature of the previous endings. Even the tagline 'thrice upon a time' seems to be of some significance, with the use of the number three when it should technically be four. Does anyone know a thread analyzing the title?

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Re: The idea of a timeloop

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Postby Melkor » Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:26 pm

View Original Postdzzthink wrote:I want to add another possible explanation for why the title is Evangelion 3.0+1.0 rather than Evangelion 4.0 that doesn't relate to a time-loop. In both Chinese and Japanese, the word 'four' sounds similar to 'death' (shi in Japanese), so it is generally considered bad luck. Rather than just being mere superstition, this could suggest that the film is intentionally avoiding any association with death for symbolic reasons. Also, the '+' sign represents bonding, restoration, and a new chapter. Maybe this final film is going to be more positive and avoids the dark nature of the previous endings. Even the tagline 'thrice upon a time' seems to be of some significance, with the use of the number three when it should technically be four. Does anyone know a thread analyzing the title?


I've actually brought this very possibility up as well before.


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