Against "Rebuild is Anti-Rei Pro-Asuka" conspiracy theory

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Re: Against "Rebuild is Anti-Rei Pro-Asuka" B/

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Postby Alaska Slim » Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:31 am

Wasn't Anno openly asking someone "Which girl should Shinji end up with" for 3.0+1.0?

That kind of dampens the idea that he had a pro-Asuka ending from the start. Or Pro anyone really.
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Re: Against "Rebuild is Anti-Rei Pro-Asuka" B/

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Postby Melkor » Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:15 am

View Original PostAlaska Slim wrote:Wasn't Anno openly asking someone "Which girl should Shinji end up with" for 3.0+1.0?

That kind of dampens the idea that he had a pro-Asuka ending from the start. Or Pro anyone really.


Did he really ask that? If he did, then you're pretty much asking for the ultimate monkey's paw from Anno by allowing the fans to tell him which girl Shinji should end up with, because I can guarantee he will do the exact opposite or an option that nobody picked so as to troll the audience as much as possible. I know I probably would.
Last edited by Melkor on Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:21 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Against "Rebuild is Anti-Rei Pro-Asuka" B/

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Postby Reichu » Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:19 am

View Original PostAlaska Slim wrote:Wasn't Anno openly asking someone "Which girl should Shinji end up with" for 3.0+1.0?

Was he? These sorts of claims need a source to avoid the kinds of fan conspiracy theories that threads like this emerge to debunk.
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Re: Against "Rebuild is Anti-Rei Pro-Asuka" B/

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Postby Literary Eagle » Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:39 am

View Original PostAlaska Slim wrote:Wasn't Anno openly asking someone "Which girl should Shinji end up with" for 3.0+1.0?


No, what happened is that Anno asked Megumi Ogata which ending Shinji should have. Someone mistranslated "ending" as "girl". I corrected that misconception in this post: https://forum.evageeks.org/post/888286/EVANGELION3010-AVANT-1-from-beginning-to-1040-Version-0706-discussion-and-prediction-thread/#888286
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Re: Against "Rebuild is Anti-Rei Pro-Asuka" B/

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Postby Joseki » Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:54 am

View Original PostAlaska Slim wrote:Wasn't Anno openly asking someone "Which girl should Shinji end up with" for 3.0+1.0?


I want to clarify this, as this "fake news" actually spread because of me either here or on Discord I think.

Last year I went to Japan Expo in Paris for the AVANT1 event featuring Yoko Takahashi and Megumi Ogata (Shinji's VA). The event featured a concert, a interview to Ogata and the screening of AVANT1 at the end.
While I studied some french for 3 years when I was very young, I have now forgot almost everything. My girlfriend, who was there with me, is however a C1-level french speaker and she helped me understanding what people on stage were saying.
My memory is now a bit hazy, but from what I remember what actually Ogata said on stage in Japanese was that one day Anno asked her how the series (or Shinji in particular) should conclude. The translator on stage translated to roughly "how should Shinji end". The mic quality wasn't great and my girlfriend confused "fin" (end/ending) with "fille" (girl) and translated it to me as "which girls should Shinji end with". For added context, she basically has no idea of what Ogata was saying most of the time not having watched Eva.
Later in the day I posted online my experience and I think I mentioned that specific mistranslation. I was later corrected on it, but I suppose that's how this myth started.

This has nothing to do with the thread but I feel responsible for creating this confusion that persisted this long.

View Original PostLiterary Eagle wrote:No, what happened is that Anno asked Megumi Ogata which ending Shinji should have. Someone mistranslated "ending" as "girl". I corrected that misconception in this post: https://forum.evageeks.org/post/888286/EVANGELION3010-AVANT-1-from-beginning-to-1040-Version-0706-discussion-and-prediction-thread/#888286


Yep. It was an unfortunate chinese whispers game that went from me casually sharing something on Discord to the wild internet.
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Re: Against "Rebuild is Anti-Rei Pro-Asuka" conspiracy theory

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Postby ShinjiStranglesAsuka » Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:07 am

:reiquiz: Oh dear, one of our very own spreading rumors? :nyao:

What I find funny about the topic in conversation is the idea that non canon materials like popularity polls would be taken seriously by Anno in any way. If anything I feel like he'd use them to troll the target audience.

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Re: Against "Rebuild is Anti-Rei Pro-Asuka" B/

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Postby Alaska Slim » Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:01 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Was he? These sorts of claims need a source to avoid the kinds of fan conspiracy theories that threads like this emerge to debunk.

You are absolutely right, a 1,000 apologies Reichu-san.

My language was also vague, I did not mean to imply that Anno had taken a poll but had rather been asking someone within the Eva staff.

On that, Ms. Ogata sounds right to me so I'm certain Literary Eagle and I are speaking to the same event.
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Re: Against "Rebuild is Anti-Rei Pro-Asuka" conspiracy theory

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Postby AWinters » Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:17 am

I don't get this.
In the rebuild series, Rei was more likeable than ever.
She got some fresh character building, some great relationship building and she seemed so much more human than in NGE.
I don't feel like Asuka advanced as much as Rei in this version (which I'm fine with, I don't have a bias).
Just seems weird that anyone thinks these movies favoured Asuka over Rei.

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Re: Against "Rebuild is Anti-Rei Pro-Asuka" conspiracy theory

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:28 am

^ Anno “killed” Reifans fave waifu at the end of Eva 2.22, and didn’t bring her back for Q, so I guess they think that means NTE is anti-Rei. And ever since the Great Waifu Wars started, if something is “anti-Rei,” then it must be “Pro-Asuka.” (Mari’s existence be damned.)
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Re: Against "Rebuild is Anti-Rei Pro-Asuka" conspiracy theory

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Postby AWinters » Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:53 pm

Losing that version of Rei at the end of 2.22 wasn't the worst thing. I loved the connection she was making with Shinji and they ended up gaining such a connection that he risked his life for her, which was a hell of a moment and in 3.33 we were so fond of how Rei had grown that we felt Shinji's angst that she was gone when he was awoken. All he wanted to do was find her and after everything - I get it.
I think that played out beautifully.
The new version of Rei even had a bit of character building like she was starting over. Whenever someone would make comments about her not being the 'real' Rei, she questioned it, looking sad and concerned, she began to question who and what she was. There's still more to her as a person than in the original series.
I think that this series was very favourable to Rei and I love all the work that's been put into her this time around.

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Re: Against "Rebuild is Anti-Rei Pro-Asuka" conspiracy theory

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Postby Melkor » Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:39 am

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:And ever since the Great Waifu Wars started, if something is “anti-Rei,” then it must be “Pro-Asuka.” (Mari’s existence be damned.)


I see this same logic show up all the time in the shipping wars where Asushin shippers try to claim that it means their ship is the one endorsed by Anno. "If Rei is supposed to represent escapism, then that must mean that Asuka represents something good, right?" Has anyone ever considered the possibly that Asuka might also represent something negative, just like Rei does? While Rei is supposed to represent escapist relationships, Asuka could represent the exact opposite, toxic relationships. Shinji is someone who is so desperate for love and affection that he would settle for being with anyone, even someone like Asuka who treats him badly and emotionally abuses him. It's like Asuka said in End of Evangelion, he doesn't care who it's with. People who are lonely and desperate for affection are the ones who are most likely to end up in toxic and abusive relationships.

Those who say that Asuka is the "answer" because Rei represents escapism I feel are missing half the message. I think the full message Anno was trying to convey was probably more along the lines of: "Don't settle for escapism, but don't be so desperate for affection that you end up with someone who won't treat you right, because you deserve better than that." I think the answer to whether the Rebuilds are pro-Asuka or pro-Rei is that they're neither. They're both unhealthy, and I think part of the reason for Mari's existence might be to help highlight that. By introducing this seemingly normal girl who is somewhere in the middle between Rei and Asuka, it creates a contrast, thereby making Asuka's unhealthy traits more noticeable.

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Re: Against "Rebuild is Anti-Rei Pro-Asuka" conspiracy theory

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Postby ShinjiStranglesAsuka » Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:34 pm

Mari certainly is nothing like Rei or Asuka so I don't know about your last point there.

Anyway we know the new best girl is Sakura.

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Re: Against "Rebuild is Anti-Rei Pro-Asuka" conspiracy theory

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Postby Melkor » Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:34 pm

View Original PostShinjiStranglesAsuka wrote:Mari certainly is nothing like Rei or Asuka so I don't know about your last point there.


That is the point. Mari is a representation of a normal person that's in the middle, while Rei and Asuka represent two unhealthy extremes. Someone like Mari being present in the story helps to highlight how different Rei and Asuka are, and that they are both unhealthy. I might have made the wording a little confusing in my previous post.

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Re: Against "Rebuild is Anti-Rei Pro-Asuka" conspiracy theory

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Postby dzzthink » Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:02 pm

The original post was a tad bit long but I agree that overall the theory does not hold. Rei is more open in expressing her emotions, especially when Rei goes out of her way to help Shinji with his dad or stops Asuka from slapping her in the elevator. On the other hand, Asuka's brashness was considerably toned down and she remains aloof towards the others. I thought the movies had a focus on the Shinji and Rei trying to 'save' each other, either literally or metaphorically, but in the anime series Asuka stands out as a central foil to Shinji and having a significant role in EoE. However, we are left with an interesting similarity in the ending of 3.33 and EoE, where Shinji and Asuka are left in a barren wasteland (with Rei at this point a clone or a ghost of some sort) and both having to start a new chapter in the story. It seems inevitable that Rei is sidelined to the metaphysical realm.

With regards to Mari, she seems like an interesting addition to the Eva pilots, somehow being immune to mental problems or social angst.


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