Angels Third Impact? Questioning.

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Angels Third Impact? Questioning.

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Postby Analyzor » Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:35 am

This information is extracted from the Classified Information:

https://wiki.evageeks.org/Classified_In ... ranslation)



Nerv Headquarters was constructed inside the Black Moon containing Lilith. The Angels that head for Nerv H.Q. are trying to make contact with Lilith, the white giant in Terminal Dogma.[6] They were aiming for Lilith from the start, not Adam.

Two Seeds of Life are not needed on one planet, and, therefore, one of them is excluded. As recorded in the Secret Dead Sea Scrolls, Adam-based life took part in a contest of survival, putting the stakes on their own existence. Some of them were trying to access Lilith and reset all life, some of them had nothing in mind, and some were trying to recover their progenitor Adam. The Angels — Adam-based life — became active under their respective tactics for survival and success.

It is thought that Third Impact will occur if an Angel comes in contact with either Lilith (in Terminal Dogma) or Adam.



The thing is: Why would SEELE send Kaworu to initiate a Thrid Impact which they couldn't control? They repeatedly say they needed the Spear of Longinus, which they don't have anymore, to control Lilith and also beg for EVA01 to kill Kaworu once he's there... At this time they already have replaced Lilith for EVA01 in their plans. Why would they risk it? What if they knew it wasn't enough? What if after Kaworu realizing it was Lilith he knew he couldn't do much anymore? Is it really enough Kaworu merging with Lilith for an Impact? explained below.

Is Kaworu really an Angel and able to Impact? He's just like Rei (human body with a Seeds soul) and she isn't. They don't have a proper Angels own body and soul. During episode 24 Directors Cut we see how they added a scene with a statue similar to the MP EVAs, and after Kaworu dies they show us another scene where this same statue is now bleeding... Would'nt that be the real Tabris and used Kaworu as a replacement? Do the MP EVAs come from Tabris? in Rebuild he drops from 1st Angel to 13th, so an Angel could be created artificially and replace another.

If EVA01 is literally Lilith (it's her lower half) would'nt that initiate a Third Impact the moment it faced an Angel? It didn't not even after getting a S².

We see how Gaghiel was looking for Adam the time they were at the ocean, he sensed it. But Kaworu didn't (putting aside that SEELE told him Adam was "within" Gendo)... and went straight to Lilith thinking she was Adam.

Knowing that "It is thought" that an Angel merging with Lilith would initiate a Third Impact, is it really true? Wouldn't it be necessary at least one of the Seeds souls? Some characters put this on doubt as well.

If an Angel can't initiate an Impact by just merging with Lilith, but you lie about it; enormously benefits SEELE taking control over the world and it serves as a justification for anything they do. We already know that the main purpouse of NERV is not defending humanity from Angels, maybe them merging with Lilith is also a lie. Again, "It is thought that"

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My theory is: Angels merging with Lilith initiates an Impact is a lie. They need to restore or fuse with Adam. They might be looking for Lilith but mostly to kill her: Sachiel tried to kill EVA01 (Lilith) while lying on the ground without showing any signs of menace.
Last edited by Analyzor on Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Angels Third Impact? Questioning.

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Postby AWinters » Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:33 am

I always thought that the Angels trying to kill Lilith instead of attempting to merge would actually make more sense because according to the back moon / white moon background, it's a war between Adam and Lilith and the last one standing keeps the Earth.

I'm still lost with what Seele wanted with Kaworu, but I don't think they were being honest with him.
All I could get from Kaworu's screen time was that he went to Central Dogma with the intention of "returning to Adam".
Although, I don't know what that would have meant for him.

My understanding is that Kaworu is just like Rei. She's Lilith in human form and he's Adam in human form, but with the memories of their previous lives forgotten.
I even wondered if Seele have a Kaworu dummy system like how NERV have a Rei dummy system and like Rei, he's the one "dummy" who recieved the soul of his original form.

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Re: Angels Third Impact? Questioning.

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Postby Reichu » Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:49 am

@Analyzor: Kaworu is absolutely an Angel, being a hybrid of the 1st and the 18th. Being born from Adam makes him an Angel in that sense as well, though he's confined to a much more limited form than his brethren, possibly because he has no core and without one an S2 engine cannot develop and function. (It's a reactor, after all -- it needs containment.)

In the show, Second Impact is triggered by a Lilin coming in intimate contact with Adam. Seed of Life + opposite-fruited successor -> Impact. The Angel Impact would function on similar principles, so in this particular case I don't see a flaw with NGE2's logic. MIxing different Fruits causes Impacts in a way that combining like Fruit with like doesn't. Yui's contact experiment didn't make Third Impact happen, after all.

@AWinters: On a general basis, Rei and Kaworu are the same, but it gets much stickier in terms of specifics. They seem to have been created in very different ways, for example. Kaworu is a reverse-Jesus, the product of a mortal man impregnating a feminine God. It's strongly implied that Kaworu was generated through artificially induced sexual recombination of genes, and he is actually a hybrid organism; so why he looks like his father and not his mother is something of a head-scratcher, but it can possibly be justified if Kaworu has a limited version of Angel morphic adaptability.

Rei, on the other hand, is implied to have come into being as a result of the botched Yui salvage operation. In the Shinji salvage based on the plans for Yui's, they discuss recreating his body from his LCL and fixing his soul within it. Eva-01 and Lilith were still connected when Yui did her initial experiment, and logically would have been left that way for the salvage so as not to introduce unnecessary changes to the "starting conditions". This link explains how Rei 1 could come to be: the salvage demanding a soul for the body it's trying to recreate, Yui refusing, and Lilith's soul getting taken when the fact that her Chamber of Guf is empty means she has no soul to give but her own.
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Re: Angels Third Impact? Questioning.

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Postby Analyzor » Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:09 pm

View Original PostAWinters wrote:I always thought that the Angels trying to kill Lilith instead of attempting to merge would actually make more sense because according to the back moon / white moon background, it's a war between Adam and Lilith and the last one standing keeps the Earth.

I'm still lost with what Seele wanted with Kaworu, but I don't think they were being honest with him.
All I could get from Kaworu's screen time was that he went to Central Dogma with the intention of "returning to Adam".
Although, I don't know what that would have meant for him.

My understanding is that Kaworu is just like Rei. She's Lilith in human form and he's Adam in human form, but with the memories of their previous lives forgotten.
I even wondered if Seele have a Kaworu dummy system like how NERV have a Rei dummy system and like Rei, he's the one "dummy" who recieved the soul of his original form.


My theory about SEELEs plans is the following:

Originally they wanted to use Kaworu, Adams embryo, the Spear, Lilith and at least 00-06 EVAs. But after losing the Spear, the embryo, some EVAs are destroyed or weren't build in time, and Gendos insurgency (they also lost EVA01) and EVA01 adquiring a S² they decide to use EVA01 and MP EVAs as a replacement for all of them. We know (and SEELE too) that Yui is daugther of a SEELE member, she worked for them following their ideals, so they expected that she would follow their plans, and made her the "decider" as the center of Instrimentality. The only one that could interpose is Shinji if he was inside the EVA at that moment.

They must have kown that Kaworu had symphaty for the Lilims and would feel attracted to Shinji's pain. Forcing Gendo to send EVA01 to kill him (Shinji as pilot) would psych out Shinji even more so that he wouldn't pilot anymore (almost successful), that's why they wanted him dead in EoE too. This would be in sync with the idea that he can't merge with Lilith and create an Impact. It was planned by them that way.
Last edited by Analyzor on Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Angels Third Impact? Questioning.

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Postby Analyzor » Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:34 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:@Analyzor: Kaworu is absolutely an Angel, being a hybrid of the 1st and the 18th. Being born from Adam makes him an Angel in that sense as well, though he's confined to a much more limited form than his brethren, possibly because he has no core and without one an S2 engine cannot develop and function. (It's a reactor, after all -- it needs containment.)

I see no reason NGE2's assertion here. In the show, Second Impact is triggered by a Lilin coming in intimate contact with Adam. Seed of Life + opposite-fruited successor -> Impact. The Angel Impact would function on similar principles.


Maybe he's an Angel if we consider it as a terminology, because he's born from Adam, but still he has not his own body and soul like the other Angels. And that would also make any other EVA (but EVA01) an Angel as well, having none of them his own body and soul neither. I don't think the Dead Scrolls had named Tabris as a mixture between humans and angels or having Adam's soul (2 Moons are required in this case).

Being EVA01 literally Lilith (her lower half) that would also make an Impact the times it was in contact with Angels.

I don't think DNA es requiered in order to do an Impact... I see it more like a power Seeds have to reset life in case the planet is inhabited by another Seed. MP EVAs use anti-AT fields without any issues, and that's what Seeds use in Impacts. Adam being awakened because of Lilim's DNA doesn't say it's necessary in order to initiate an Impact. Angels then would simply try to recover (or merge with) it's father so he can reset Lilims life, trying to kill any oposition in the process.

CI is somewhere between tier2-3 canon, it's something to consider.


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