Handling of DSS Choker Reveal(s) [split]

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Re: DSS Choker Reveal [split]

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Postby TheFriskyIan » Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:23 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:I'm not sure how this is relevant. Are you suggesting that Wille had control over this part of the situation? I wouldn't be too sure about that......

Not really; I'm simply saying Shinji's inability to sync could be due to Rei being inside Unit 01's core. Wille might not have the means of doing as thorough a search as they think they can, and there could very well be a way we don't know of yet that could eject a soul out of the core, allowing Shinji to sync with Unit 01 once again.
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Re: DSS Choker Reveal [split]

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:31 pm

View Original Postchee wrote:THIS WAIFU PILLOW-FUCKER IN BRANSON, MISSOURI

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:Hentai Harold the Angry Anime Youtuber from Gary, Indiana

View Original Postchee wrote:I dislike the fact that this is probably an actual youtube channel, one that probably apes the style of Channel Awesome 10 years too late and has thumbnails like "SJWs TRIGGERED by BIBLE BLACK!?!??!" with an image of a smug anime girl laughing at a soyfacing wojack.

These are all very colorful and creative ways to refer to actual YouTuber and former Channel Awesome contributor Bennett The Sage. (And yes, the linked YT video on The End of Evangelion fits the bill entirely, with the exception of the smug Wendy's anime girl thumbnail.)

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Postby Melkor » Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:08 pm

View Original Postchee wrote:I mean, why? With all the information we're given as an audience, there's not much of a reason to assume she was doing anything to make it go off.

Again, why? Given the creative team's track record, I really don't see why they would feel that much pressure to kowtow to angry otaku, let alone random people who live across the Pacific Ocean where their franchise has a cult following at best. Like, the whole ocean, the whole thing.

You can criticize or laud 3.0's "we're mostly in Shinji's headspace" approach from a structural standpoint all you like, but taking that as a given, why would it be relevant in the slightest? Shinji doesn't know about it, for all he knows she could be a Terminator wearing an Asuka suit. It's his story primarily. The movie makes a similar move as to the final chunk of the series, in which we're given the perspective of a manipulated pawn in a massive conspiracy that is so unfathomably huge in nature that there's no possible way the character whose perspective the story adopts could even begin to access any meaningful knowledge of it.


Why are you going out of your way to try to restart this argument with me? The debate already ended, with Reichu's final words on the matter to me.

Also, I'm not trying to start anything with anyone here, but so far I've noticed people have just been repeating the same point over and over again, that "the movie is supposed to be viewed from Shinji's perspective," but have to ask, how do you all know that for sure that was Anno's true intent? Has Anno actually come out and said in an interview that that's what we were supposed to get from the movie? You're all sort of just assuming you know exactly what the director's intentions was and are passing it off as if it's an absolute confirmed fact. My arguments are being called disingenuous, but I think it's equally disingenuous (and even somewhat arrogant) to just deflect any and all criticisms of 3.0 and immediately shut down any alternate viewpoints by just chalking them all up people not understanding to what you "think" the director's intent behind the events of the movie was supposed to be. Just because its what the majority of the fandom currently agrees upon as what Anno's intentions "might" have been doesn't make it anymore true or false. Until Anno actually comes out in an interview and says what his true intentions were with 3.0, we don't know one way or the other. For all we know, the message might end up being something entirely different that we haven't even grasped yet and won't become clear to us until the final movie comes out, because 3.0+1.0 could end up recontextualizing everything.

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Re: Shin Eva - Official Social Media

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Postby TheFriskyIan » Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:24 pm

View Original PostMelkor wrote:Also, I'm not trying to start anything with anyone here, but so far I've noticed people have just been repeating the same point over and over again, that "the movie is supposed to be viewed from Shinji's perspective," but have to ask, how do you all know that for sure that was Anno's true intent? Has Anno actually come out and said in an interview that that's what we were supposed to get from the movie? You're all sort of just assuming you know exactly what the director's intentions was and are passing it off as if it's an absolute confirmed fact. My arguments are being called disingenuous, but I think it's equally disingenuous (and even somewhat arrogant) to just deflect any and all criticisms of 3.0 and immediately shut down any alternate viewpoints by just chalking them all up people not understanding to what you "think" the director's intent behind the events of the movie was supposed to be. Just because its what the majority of the fandom currently agrees upon as what Anno's intentions "might" have been doesn't make it anymore true or false. Until Anno actually comes out in an interview and says what his true intentions were with 3.0, we don't know one way or the other. For all we know, the message might end up being something entirely different that we haven't even grasped yet and won't become clear to us until the final movie comes out, because 3.0+1.0 could end up recontextualizing everything.

While I would say that Anno has always been one that wants his audience to decide/interpret a work for themselves IIRC, I will agree with you that the movie isn't entirely based on Shinji's PoV. We get plenty of cuts of Wille and Nerv where Shinji is nowhere to be seen; the entire first segment of the film he's absent from.
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Re: DSS Choker Reveal [split]

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Postby Velorex » Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:12 pm

where is the original thread this split from?
Last edited by Velorex on Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Shin Eva - Official Social Media

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Postby chee » Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:43 pm

View Original PostMelkor wrote:Also, I'm not trying to start anything with anyone here, but so far I've noticed people have just been repeating the same point over and over again, that "the movie is supposed to be viewed from Shinji's perspective," but have to ask, how do you all know that for sure that was Anno's true intent?


Ok seriously like what seems like the more plausible scenario:

1. The folks working on the movie made a creative decision based on the kind of story they wanted to tell, or

2. Hideaki Anno went specifically out of his way to piss off Twitter user @No1ReiFan42069BlazeIt from Madison, Wisconsin

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Re: DSS Choker Reveal [split]

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Postby Velorex » Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:00 pm

btw what does the pic jp translates to?
Image
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Re: DSS Choker Reveal [split]

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Postby FelipeFritschF » Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:18 pm

HAH! CALLED IT!

Even if we disconsider Yamashita's previous allusions, this is a twist tons of us have already speculated about, of course. It *wonderfully* drives home the point of Shinji again being wrong when he assumes he's the only person with problems in the world.

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Postby TheFriskyIan » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:24 pm

View Original Postchee wrote:2. Hideaki Anno went specifically out of his way to piss off Twitter user @No1ReiFan42069BlazeIt from Madison, Wisconsin

I'm actually from Orlando, Florida and there's also an xXx behind the BlazeIt.
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Re: DSS Choker Reveal [split]

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Postby Settie » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:45 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:The reason Shinji is barred piloting Unit 01 isn't because of Impact issues; Shinji can't pilot Unit 01 because it's being used as the Wunder AAA's engine. Shinji can't pilot a vehicle that's entirely being used as an engine for a completely different vehicle. I don't know why Unit 01 specifically has to be used as the engine (the films that preceded Eva Q seem to suggest that something's significantly different about Unit 01 when compared to other Eva Units...), but that's the reason why Shinji can't pilot it. If you go back and rewatch the movie, you'll note that Ritsuko first states that Unit 01 is being used as the Wunder AAA's engine, and then as a completely separate thought says the Choker represents their mistrust in him. These two thoughts are presented as inherently being mutually exclusive to one another within the film itself. Their mistrust in Shinji isn't represented in barring him from piloting anything, but is explicitly stated by Ritsuko herself that it is represented solely in the usage of the Choker itself. Misato says nothing on the issue. (Also, it's pretty silly to call Misato a hypocrite for things that Ritsuko told Shinji.)



It wasn't just unit 1, he was barred from piloting anything. We got Sakura saying so, Shinji scared of the choker before Kaworu takes it off and If those instances aren't enough, the movie even gives a nice visual storytelling to drive the point home. As Shiji is about to leave with the mark9, the way Misato holds the chokers controller is exactly how you would hold a gun to someone, i don't think this was coincidental. Misato metaphorically holding a gun to his head should he pilot again. The choker was no mere symbol of distrust, it was an active threat should he pilot anything.
Now this is likely my american perspective that guides my bias but, Misato is the captain of the Wunder, if not the leader of Willie. The buck stops with her and only her. Now could her subordinates go behind her back? sure and i wouldn't blame her for that, but when it came to the Shinji situation, she was responsible for it as she was physically present.


Hopefully not dredging this up again but i wanted to give my 2c on it. It's not entirely unprecedented that Anno would do something based on the fandom. I mean isn't that one of the primary reasons EoE came about, due to TV ending backlash. Also from a non-cynical "for the moneyz" perspective, NTE was Anno making eva more easily "digestible" (if that makes sense) for the masses due to the fandoms reactions to OG NGE. Hell if you really wanted to stretch it the whole english redubbing of 3.0 was potetially due to the western fandom reaction. So Anno taking the Eva fandom reaction into account it's not that farfetched.

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Re: DSS Choker Reveal [split]

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Postby Mr. Tines » Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:50 am

View Original PostVelorex wrote:where is the original thread this split from?

View Original PostVelorex wrote:btw what does the pic jp translates to?


Answering both questions with this one link

post/896376/Shin-Eva-Official-Social-Media/#896376
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Re: DSS Choker Reveal [split]

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Postby Melkor » Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:55 am

View Original PostSettie wrote:Hopefully not dredging this up again but i wanted to give my 2c on it. It's not entirely unprecedented that Anno would do something based on the fandom. I mean isn't that one of the primary reasons EoE came about, due to TV ending backlash. Also from a non-cynical "for the moneyz" perspective, NTE was Anno making eva more easily "digestible" (if that makes sense) for the masses due to the fandoms reactions to OG NGE. Hell if you really wanted to stretch it the whole english redubbing of 3.0 was potetially due to the western fandom reaction. So Anno taking the Eva fandom reaction into account it's not that farfetched.


It doesn't even necessarily have to be due to fan reaction or pandering. Anno could have just legitimately changed his mind about certain things in the story. It's not like that's never happened before in the history of fiction where an author or creator has changed their mind about something in the story before they've finished it because they weren't happy with how it turned out. Anno was in a very different mental state during the production of 3.0 than he is now. It goes without saying that his depression during the production of 3.0 would have greatly effected how he wrote the story. Looking back on it now with a more positive and optimistic mindset, Anno might now regret some of the story decisions he made in 3.0 and want to change them. Like for example, he might regret doing a 14 year time skip, so the only way to undo it and write it out of the story would be with something like a time loop. If in the 3 years between 2.0 and 3.0 Anno drastically changed his mind on what the story would be for 3.0 from what was originally shown in the preview at the end of 2.0, then just imagine how much he might have changed his mind on the story for 3.0+1.0 now that he has had 8 whole years to marinate on it.

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Re: Shin Eva - Official Social Media

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Postby chee » Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:00 am

View Original PostTheFriskyIan wrote:I'm actually from Orlando, Florida and there's also an xXx behind the BlazeIt.


Ah shit, hold on

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Re: DSS Choker Reveal [split]

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Postby Reichu » Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:59 am

Melkor: Allow me to clarify something.

I think we should be framing these discussions primarily in terms of subjective personal experience of art combined with reason-based interpretation. Of course none of us actually know* what the intent truly is (unless bluntly stated). But something like Anno's Eva is created around the long legacy of the language of film and storytelling. Communicating an intent is part of the point, as much as providing a unique personal experience is. So such things can be discussed, and certain possibilities given more weight than others on the basis of interpretative argumentation. When you bring up a criticism like "it didn't work for me that such-and-such was omitted from installment X", you should expect others to challenge you with their own interpretation. This should be a conversation, after all -- opinions should not be absolute, or else why are we here? I called you out on ignoring, repeatedly, the parts of people's posts that challenged your viewpoint in a framework of "how this makes sense in terms of what I believe* the creator was trying to achieve". Disagree? Fine. Don't ignore them. Acknowledge them. Continue the conversation.

* (Disclaimer: Use of "I think, maybe, possibly, perhaps, it could be that, etc." does "soften" and "lubricate" forum interactions, and I personally make an attempt to use them often, but constantly guarding one's language -- in a time when this is expected more and more, everywhere -- does wear a person down, so occasionally omissions happen.)

However, and this cannot be emphasized enough, DO NOT INVOKE CONSTANT PRODUCTION CONSPIRACIES. I'm sure most fans don't even realize they're doing it, but this is one of the lowest, least productive forms of discourse. The circumstances of the production are completely irrelevant here because you cannot know what they even are unless explicitly told by those behind the scenes. Production details are interesting and all, but they are not an alternative for unpacking and articulating your actual feelings about an art work and being able to hash things out with others. "What maybe possibly could have happened during production but who the hell actually knows" even more so.

Perhaps you consider it harmless speculation. Even if that's all it is, it has no place in a context where you insist you just want to express your opinion. The amount of damage that mythologizing about behind-the-scenes stuff has done to fandoms is utterly incalculable. That's what this is. Spinning a narrative around poorly understood bits and pieces of reality (if even that) to justify a belief. Don't be one of those people. Don't attempt to validate your subjective experience of something by idly speculating about the creation process of the movies. Don't attempt to do anything even resembling this. Frame your opinions in terms of things that we can actually meaningfully discuss, like our own personal truths (see: second paragraph). There is no discussing "well what if [insert random hypothetical about production]???" Production should be a fact-based topic and not be used as some kind of crux for hypersimplifying things that are not simple (or even relevant) or explaining why you feel a particular way. (And note I said "not used as a CRUX", not "never used at any point ever, even when doing so would actually be appropriate".)

Everybody, please: just leave the conspiracies, mythologizing, etc., out of it.
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Re: DSS Choker Reveal [split]

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Postby Reichu » Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:29 am

[Re: now-deleted post]

I suppose I should have addressed this in the previous post, but: can we please keep this thread from collapsing into the Shinji SIngularity? We have sooooo many threads that are specifically about hashing out the Act 1 stuff with Wille. If you just HAVE to take it up with somebody, bump the latest iteration of the relevant cancer thread and put your response there. Thanks.
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Re: DSS Choker Reveal [split]

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:37 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:If you just HAVE to take it up with somebody, bump the latest iteration of the relevant cancer thread and put your response there. Thanks.

Posting may reply to the cancer here.


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