Character Heights

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Re: Character Heights

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Postby Blockio » Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:19 pm

MarqFJA87 wrote: someone named "Dancing Whales" (or "Zeerus"; I'm uncertain on how Tumblr aliases work)

That's good old Zeruss, not at all an unfamiliar name around here :tongue:
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Postby Derantor » Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:41 am

Taking those heights from the picture above (with the -3 subtracted for Misatos height) that would give the following growth chart for the characters if we assume they stay in their percentile (both of them are at the extreme lower end of height and weight that is still considered normal):

Shinji:
14 Years = 148 cm
15 Years = 155 cm
16 Years = 160 cm
17 Years = 164 cm
18 Years = 166 cm
19 Years = 167 cm
20 Years = 167 cm

Asuka:
13 1/2 Years = 150 cm <- Series starts slightly after this point
14 Years = 154 cm
15 Years = 157 cm
16 Years = 159 cm
17 Years = 160 cm
18 Years = 161 cm
19 Years = 161 cm
20 Years = 161 cm

As for weight: Assuming the same low-percentile placement on the normal distribution, which seems reasonable given their very light frames, I get rough estimates of:

Shinji:
14 Years = 39 kg
15 Years = 44 kg
16 Years = 48 kg
17 Years = 52 kg
18 Years = 54 kg
19 Years = 56 kg
20 Years = 57 kg

Asuka:
13 1/2 Years = 37 kg
14 Years = 39 kg
15 Years = 41 kg
16 Years = 42 kg
17 Years = 43 kg
18 Years = 44 kg
19 Years = 45 kg
20 Years = 45 kg

Both growth and weight gain are based on values closer to the norm, rather than low percentile values, and growth continues for longer than average, otherwise they'd end up even shorter and slimmer, possibly as low as 162cm/54kg for Shinji and 158cm/42kg for Asuka.

The loser out of this is of course Kiel, who will shrink to 158cm in the same timeframe on account of being ancient and problems with the manufacture of his mechanical parts due to outsourcing of development to a third party, while the winner is Rei, who, thanks to being cloned, grows faster, as she's about 4 years younger than her stated age. Thus, she will reach a height of 224cm and a weight of 128 kg with the option of growing to 160.000cm and about a billion tons should Gendo accidentally touch her belly again ;)

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Postby MarqFJA87 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:51 am

First, for the ethnically Japanese characters (and possibly Asuka, if the genes influencing her growth came from the Japanese part of her ancestry), you do take into account the fact that Japanese average height is significantly less than most of the world, right? The average for female adult height is ~158 cm, last time I checked.

Second, in Rei's case, you make the unfounded assumption that the biological "clock" of her cells was not affected in anyway by the accelerated growth that she had to have experienced in order to reach the appearance of a 14 year old. Incidentally, you're assuming that she was created shortly after Yui's death in 2004, when she was only introduced to Nerv staff circa 2010, making it far more likely that her creation was no earlier than 2006 (she looked like 4-5 years old, possibly even younger).
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Re: Character Heights

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Postby Derantor » Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:58 am

Growth is taken from western charts, as those were the only I could find (and read). Should be accurate for Asuka anyways, and if averages in general are lower that just moves them closer to the norm but doesn't really change their growth pattern by more than a centimeter, roundabout. Shinji's still about 4cm below the Japanese average at 171cm.

Yeah, the last paragraph wasn't entirely serious ...

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Postby MarqFJA87 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:07 am

You know, looking back at the Rebuild chart that Zeruss based his calculations on (linked at the end of the previous page), I find myself second-guessing his claim that some of the characters are non-trivially "floating" above the base line. Also, I realized that Zeruss made a non-trivial mistake: there's a marked point on the vertical height line from which tracing a perpendicular line would line up with the top of Shinji's head, but which Zeruss misread as reading "152" when it actually reads "157" (which is how several past posts read it).

Any chance someone could redo the calculations using Zeruss' methodology again with these two facts in mind?
"Our magic is not omnipotent. A little bit of courage is the true magic."
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Postby silvermoonlight » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:53 am

This is why I wish rebuild had not gone for the curse of Eva and showed them growing up normally as you'd get to see if Asuka would be taller than Rei at 17 like in the Evangelion Anima art.
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Postby Derantor » Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:06 am

View Original PostMarqFJA87 wrote:[...] but which Zeruss misread as reading "152" when it actually reads "157"

Looking through the tumblr post, the only 157 I can find is the one associated with Toji. There are four lines above Shinji's head, with either the bottommost or second to the bottom being his. He also already provides the values for the character heights when assuming the same baseline in the last picture.

However, I redid the measurement myself and calculated a height of 151.5 cm for Shinji.


@silvermoonlight: Yeah, and the whole rather creepy concept of "She's 28 but looks 14" and all that implies would have gone with it. But I guess that's why it was included in the first place.

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Postby MarqFJA87 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:28 pm

View Original PostDerantor wrote:Looking through the tumblr post, the only 157 I can find is the one associated with Toji. There are four lines above Shinji's head, with either the bottommost or second to the bottom being his. He also already provides the values for the character heights when assuming the same baseline in the last picture.

Look at the vertical line on the far right; there's a notch that reads "157", right where you could trace a perpendicular line straight to or slightly above Shinji's and Asuka's respective heads (Shinji appears slightly shorter).


I'm guessing that the chart is a rough sketch, and thus that discrepancy you found plus the alleged deviation in the characters' standing levels can be easily explained as due to whoever drew this not really focusing on being precise. In that case, I believe we are supposed to focus on the head height differences and what few known character heights we have (namely, the Rebuild versions of Misato and Asuka being officially 173 cm and 157 cm respectively), and form estimates from there based on the average head measurment (roughly 20 cm from top to chin).

@silvermoonlight: Yeah, and the whole rather creepy concept of "She's 28 but looks 14" and all that implies would have gone with it. But I guess that's why it was included in the first place.

This something that I admire in Japanese anime/manga and related media: They don't share their Western world's seeming inability to believe that the average sane person can't separate reality from fiction (or to put it another way, exaggerating the proportion of people who genuinely have a deficiency in making that separation).
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Postby Derantor » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:03 pm

Could you point me to the image you mean? On all four pictures in that post, the 150 on the scale to the right has the 0 cut in half, and the 150 lines up with the top of Shinji's head. Measuring on my scale confirms that the marking that could be read as 157 is 150cm from the bottom of the scale.

Incidently, Misato measures at 173cm on the scale I made. Measuring from the top of her head to the top of Asuka's head gives me 18 cm, which puts her at 155cm in height, which is roughly consistent with the 156cm height I measure to the baseline from the top of Asuka's head. Measuring from the top of Misato's head to Shinji's, I get 21cm, which puts Shinji at 152cm.

Edit: Setting up the scale so that the marking is at 157cm, Shinji is 158cm, Misato at 182cm, Asuka at 163cm, Toji at 168, Gendo at 203cm and Kaji at 198cm.

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Postby silvermoonlight » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:13 pm

View Original PostMarqFJA87 wrote:This something that I admire in Japanese anime/manga and related media: They don't share their Western world's seeming inability to believe that the average sane person can't separate reality from fiction (or to put it another way, exaggerating the proportion of people who genuinely have a deficiency in making that separation).


It's not that I have an issue separating reality from fiction my issue is if your 28 but you look 14 your only relationships are either going to be with people like you, or with adults who look twice your age and I don't even need to go in to how some countries will see this and that even though the world has gone to hell if Asuka brings in her adult looking boyfriend or girlfriend they'd get beaten up and branded a peodolfile .

Became some worldwide resistances bases may not have been told about this issue and it could really happen and be painful for everyone involved in a huge way and keep on happening. As they did show Nerv Britain and that could happen there...yes in Japan you can sleep with some 14 year old looking kid but in Britain they will routinely trash your house if they think you're a peodolfile sleeping with an underage child, it's why people are terrified over here of being branded as one even by mistake...
Last edited by silvermoonlight on Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Derantor » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:16 pm

@Silvermoonlight: That was what I was thinking about. Plus the additional complications for her if her physical development is arrested; hormonal levels remaining in puberty forever, brain chemistry not evolving with age, etc. The condition is a lot harsher than just "Oh, I look 14".

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Postby silvermoonlight » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:38 pm

View Original PostDerantor wrote:@Silvermoonlight: That was what I was thinking about. Plus the additional complications for her if her physical development is arrested; hormonal levels remaining in puberty forever, brain chemistry not evolving with age, etc. The condition is a lot harsher than just "Oh, I look 14".


That's an interesting thing had not thought about being stuck in puberty but never fully reaching adulthood as that's a nightmare in its self. I recall that was brought in the Interview with a Vampire film as Claudia has to be told that she'd be stuck in a child's body forever despite being an adult and will never have an adult woman's body and I recall her not reacting well to this and derailing emotionally and mentally.

So now let's imagine Ritsuko going to Asuka oh hey you are never going to grow up never gonna gain any height your breasts won't fill out your pelvis will never fully narrow and you are stuck in puberty which will cause problems with your emotions for the rest of your life and your periods might be so bad they make you ill and your left eyes screwed. Cut to scene of Asuka trashing the hospital room...
Last edited by silvermoonlight on Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby MarqFJA87 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:18 pm

View Original PostDerantor wrote:Could you point me to the image you mean? On all four pictures in that post, the 150 on the scale to the right has the 0 cut in half, and the 150 lines up with the top of Shinji's head. Measuring on my scale confirms that the marking that could be read as 157 is 150cm from the bottom of the scale.


Here you go. I also took the liberty of including a different, rougher chart that's explicitly identified as belong to Rebuild (it even has Mari included, unlike the other chart).

Incidently, Misato measures at 173cm on the scale I made. Measuring from the top of her head to the top of Asuka's head gives me 18 cm, which puts her at 155cm in height, which is roughly consistent with the 156cm height I measure to the baseline from the top of Asuka's head.

It would also fit Asuka's official Rebuild height of 157 cm, and support my suggestion that the chart was done with less attention to accuracy than it should have.

Edit: Setting up the scale so that the marking is at 157cm, Shinji is 158cm, Misato at 182cm, Asuka at 163cm, Toji at 168, Gendo at 203cm and Kaji at 198cm.


Okay, how about setting it to fit the official Rebuild heights for Misato (173 cm) and Asuka (157 cm), and work from there?
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Postby Derantor » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:47 pm

Well, I think we just have to agree to disagree on the 157. ^_^ I gave my reasoning and the values.

Do you want the values for Rebuild or the Series? I think the chart you posted for Rebuild already gives the best values for NTE, and since it is so rough, any measurement I do would be highly inaccurate. The one I worked with (and the one that Zeruss used) is from the Series, to my knowledge, since Shinji, Asuka and Rei are of different height, which they aren't in the Rebuilds. If there is a better height-chart for Rebuild, I don't know where to find it.

MarqFJA87 wrote:Okay, how about setting it to fit the official Rebuild heights for Misato (173 cm) and Asuka (157 cm), and work from there?

It isn't possible to adjust for both values simultaneously without adopting a non-linear scale, which would distort all the other values. I could try a compromise with a linear scale; I'd have to make Misato ~174,5 cm tall to make Asuka 157 cm, or I can stick with what I have, which leaves Misato at 173 cm and Asuka at 156 cm (generously measuring from the utmost top of her hair to the adjusted baseline, not the one lining up with the chart, ignoring that her hair has volume and that her feet end above the line). In that case, the values for the other characters are similar to this picture, plus or minus 1 cm. Shinji, in either case, does not get taller than 153,5 cm in the original series.

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Postby Zeruss » Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:30 pm

Hello hello!
Well, a couple of clarifications, cause I do agree with some of the observations made about my height experiment.

First, to confirm that the height chart used is indeed from NGE, not the Rebuilds (afaik, it was included in some form in the Newtype artbook or as part of the settei materials).

Second, the original post does explain that the "levitating" measurement is a bit of a personal preference in calculating the final heights, thus why a second image (at the end of the post) is included without taking said floating distance into account--As can be seen, this adds a considerable amount of height to some of them! (and in line with the general measurements that have been done lately here).

Third, to clarify about the "150 or 157" mystery... I read it as 150 because the height chart itself has a max of 200cm, and is clearly divided into four large segments, which I concluded as being each of 50cm when doing the graphic measurements--Also, as can be noticed, the 200cm label is only partially seen (the second 0) but can only be interpreted as meaning "200", and I see this as the same situation as with the partially seen "0" in the 150cm mark.

Edit - Sorry if a lot of what I mentioned had already been stated! Hadn't read the entirety of the responses before writing it and just replied to the first questions about the height experiment itself--But you get the answers about it straight from the horse's mouth! (I'm not a horse though).
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Postby MarqFJA87 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:02 pm

Thanks for responding, Zeruss. I now have to apologize for not noticing that the 200 mark was also cut off, which nixes my supposition entirely. Clarifying the origin of the chart that you used does help a lot as well, since it means we ought to discount any Rebuild-exclusive values and go with the TV series-relevant ones instead (e.g. Misato and Rei being officially 163 cm and 148 cm, respectively; any result we get from calculations shouldn't stray too far from that unless there's concrete evidence that whoever came up with that number pulled it out of their ass).

... You know, since we're at it, where do the heights for Shinji and Asuka on this wiki article come from? There's a discrepancy of several centimeters between them and the heights from both Zeruss' and Derantor's calculations.
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–Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Negima: Magister Negi Magi

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Re: Character Heights

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Postby UrsusArctos » Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:43 am

I think the character heights on the wiki were based on this post, or some variation of the heights here, hence the discrepancy -
https://forum.evageeks.org/thread/3816/Character-heights-v2/

EDIT: Corrected the link.
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Re: Character Heights

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Postby MarqFJA87 » Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:00 pm

The image link in that post is broken.
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Postby UrsusArctos » Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:41 pm

Fixed now. That's not the original character heights discussion, which I presume is somewhere in the ANF archive, but rather one that Shin-Seiki made using the Gunbuster character heights as a comparison, with additional inputs from Reichu and the others.

To add one character who's not on that chart, Yui is 5'6" but appears 5'9" because she's wearing heels.

I'm not sure how to explain the other measurement discrepancies. I suspect that the characters aren't always drawn consistently to the same height although not as extreme as the height discrepancies for the Evangelions.
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Postby MarqFJA87 » Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:11 pm

... The numbers below chart blatantly contradict official heights for the teens; Rei is 10 whole centimeters shorter than her official height of 148 cm, so she should be 4'10" at minimum (which would make Asuka and Shinji roughly 5'1" and and 5', respectively). At least Misato is just 1 inch short of her official height of 163 cm.
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–Negi Springfield, Negima: Magister Negi Magi

"Where there is distress, therein lies a story. Where there is a story, therein lies a will. And wherever there is a will, therein lies a soul."
–Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Negima: Magister Negi Magi


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