ok what is it with yall constantly recommending retake
first of all,
second of all, why would you read a porno for closure on eva
that kinda goes against the whole "straightforward psychological perspective on adolescent sexuality" thing the whole show was going for
i mean, maybe if there's a censored version it'll be good?

glitz2hard wrote:ok what is it with yall constantly recommending retake
first of all,

SPOILER: Show

why does Rei kill herself? im not reading it. just tell me

second of all, why would you read a porno for closure on eva
that kinda goes against the whole "straightforward psychological perspective on adolescent sexuality" thing the whole show was going for
i mean, maybe if there's a censored version it'll be good?

Rei attempts to hang herself because even thought she was interested in Shinji, Shinji confesses to her that he likes Asuka. Despite this, Shinji still showed empathy, but Rei was unwilling to handle this rejection.

And Re-Take is awesome because of its story. I’m sure if there is a censored version somewhere it’ll still be amazing. Let’s be honest, how many other fanfics have put forth so much time and effort and quality?

Wait, so you didn't even watch the actual Neon Genesis Evangelion anime and just jumped straight into watching End of Evangelion?

Shun wrote:lThe difference between NGE ending and EoE ending isn't in the meaning, but in the time and effort required to learn to live. If you interpret them in this way you will see that the two endings are complementary and therefore both important, as well as yin and yang are both necessary for the Tao.

I am grateful for the advice you’ve given to me thus far. As of late, I came across an article which interpreted the Original Ending of NGE as a guide, and the other, EOE as a warning; https://www.doctornerdlove.com/learning ... vangelion/

After reading this, I was able to look at the movie from a different point of view. This answered many questions that I had logistic-wise.

But still, this couldn’t offer me comfort from the fact the movie triggered my PTSD. One example is the fight which Asuka died in. This reminded me of my wrestling class, which I had my collarbone and sternum dislocated, yet no one, not even the staff bothered to help me locate a chiropractor. I worked as hard as I my body could push, but it was because of this injury, I never won a single match, not one.

The scene where Shinji refuses to help Asuka until he arrives too late also haunted me. My best friend Max committed suicide a few months ago. To me, this scene gave me the impression that I had the chance to save Max from dying, but I did nothing about it, that like Shinji, I am somehow responsible because I abandoned him.

Another example is when Asuka berated at Shinji in one of his mind trips, accusing him of being unable to love himself and labels him as pathetic for doing so. Furthermore, she accuses Shinji of being unable to take responsibility for his actions. This reminded me of the times when I was bullied in my Sophomore year. I wanted to take accountability for my actions, but I didn’t know the right way to do so, and I was afraid of being vulnerable, as that often presented myself as a target others. I see myself as a mostly honest individual. Even when I accepted the fact I had made mistakes, the others still taunted and bullied me. I knew they had issues of their own, but I was all the more confused of why they had to take their anger out upon me even though I was honest. Even when I asked the staff for help, they did little to change anything, and one of them blamed me for everything. Since I saw Shinji as a twisted reflection of my past self, seeing this past self being berated by Asuka and then going to choking her and starting the Third impact haunted me all the more. This is the scene that triggered me the most, as I was under the impression that everything that happened was my fault.

Melkor wrote:Wait, so you didn't even watch the actual Neon Genesis Evangelion anime and just jumped straight into watching End of Evangelion?

Yes. I only saw clips of the show and read the synopsis of it. I said before that there were things I didn’t understand. I doubt I’ll ever understand much. But I did read how Hideki Anno received personal death threats after releasing the finale. I was under the impression that it had a bad ending. And I despise animes with bad endings, however the opinion may vary. I decided to jump into EOE first, and I regret it heavily.

Hopelessromantic wrote:I was under the impression that it had a bad ending.

The ending was and remains rather controversial, being something put together under incredible time pressure, and thus having to use all sorts of short-cuts. But its definitely not a "bad end" kind of ending, just one that sets aside such trivia as plot in order to concentrate on the business of resolving the themes.

EoE then happened with more time and budget, but also a hefty dose of renewed depression on Anno's part, which colours the whole thing.

Now, go watch the series, preferably with the on-air version of the later episodes (rather than the aimed-at-EoE "Director's Cut") on the first time around.

Hopelessromantic wrote:Yes. I only saw clips of the show and read the synopsis of it. I said before that there were things I didn’t understand. I doubt I’ll ever understand much.

I don't mean to sound like a dick, but that might have played a substantial role in you having such a bad time with it; reading the synopsis that by nature focuses only on the more plot-relevant (and as such in Eva more negative) aspects, and then going straight to EoE is.... not a good idea, and after hearing that I'm not surprised that you reacted like that. You best bet might actually be to just watch the show to put things into perspective
just maybe stop at around Ep 15 or so, depending on how you're holding up at that point

Blockio wrote:I don't mean to sound like a dick, but that might have played a substantial role in you having such a bad time with it; reading the synopsis that by nature focuses only on the more plot-relevant (and as such in Eva more negative) aspects, and then going straight to EoE is.... not a good idea, and after hearing that I'm not surprised that you reacted like that. You best bet might actually be to just watch the show to put things into perspective
just maybe stop at around Ep 15 or so, depending on how you're holding up at that point

You don’t sound like a dick at all, you actually sound quite helpful. I’m just trying to remain a healthy skeptic when it comes to the world of anime, especially given that there are those out there who have gone a little too far down the rabbit hole (ie. Buying body pillows). However, I understand the fault doesnt wholly lie in the hands of the creators of a series. Hideki Anno himself said that these are unfortunate displays of a fandom. Sometimes I like to read the synopsis of a plot before going headfirst to know what I’m getting myself into.

So because some people thought the final episode of the anime was bad, that means the entire thing was not worth watching? I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Blockio here. Who skips an entire anime and only watches the movie for it? This isn't like one those shonen anime movies with filler plots that don't really affect the main story. This movie is an actual sequel continuation of the anime's story, so there is going to be a lot of context you're missing. Neon Genesis Evangelion is a very psychological and nuanced show, so just skipping it and reading some synopses of what happens instead is not an adequate substitute to prepare you for End of Evangelion. Were you TRYING to make your experience as miserable as possible? Because only watching the most depressing and emotional part of the entire series movie is a good way to do that. End of Evangelion shows all of the characters at their lowest point, so only seeing that side of them and not knowing what their usual happy selves were like is going to severely skew your view of the characters and series. It's no surprise that your reaction to End of Evangelion ended up being this negative, because a good deal of that likely stems from confusion, which is guaranteed to worsen trauma.

Melkor wrote:Were you TRYING to make your experience as miserable as possible? Because only watching the most depressing and emotional part of the entire series movie is a good way to do that. End of Evangelion shows all of the characters at their lowest point, so only seeing that side of them and not knowing what their usual happy selves were like is going to severely skew your view of the characters and series. It's no surprise that your reaction to End of Evangelion ended up being this negative, because a good deal of that likely stems from confusion, which is guaranteed to worsen trauma.

That makes sense. And no, I wasn’t trying to make my experience as miserable as possible, is was just a misjudged move, a mistake I thought I could handle. As for their usual happy selves, is there really such a thing?

Also, I hope you don’t mind giving me your thoughts on reply #44, unless the previous statement is your thoughts.

If you want to forget about End of Evangelion, but you're not ready to move on yet because you still have unanswered questions, then maybe you could start with watching the Neon Genesis anime. Alongside all the serious moments, there were also some light-hearted and comedic moments in it that helped balance things out. End of Evangelion was basically the point where shit suddenly gets real. One common way of interpreting the final episodes is that they were occurring inside Shinji's mind at the same time as Third Impact in End of Evangelion, so those final episodes show Shinji coming to the realization that he has worth, which is turn is what led to his decision to stop Third Impact. When the two endings are viewed as happening concurrently, then that is how End of Evangelion can be seen as a happy ending. After that, you could then maybe go on to watch the Rebuilds.

Hopelessromantic wrote:I’m just trying to remain a healthy skeptic when it comes to the world of anime, especially given that there are those out there who have gone a little too far down the rabbit hole (ie. Buying body pillows). However, I understand the fault doesnt wholly lie in the hands of the creators of a series. Hideki Anno himself said that these are unfortunate displays of a fandom. Sometimes I like to read the synopsis of a plot before going headfirst to know what I’m getting myself into.

Oh yeah, that much is definitely a good idea. It doesn't even have to go that far; I generally advise anyone from staying the hell away from the general Eva fandom, especially on social media.

But yeah, even just the first few episodes might just help you a lot already; don't get me wrong, there definitely is a degree of misery already present, but it's overshadowed quite heavily by the more tranquil and hopeful moments; particular episodes 6 and the downtimes in the general time frame of 9-13 I can definitely see helping you

Melkor wrote:One common way of interpreting the final episodes is that they were occurring inside Shinji's mind at the same time as Third Impact in End of Evangelion, so those final episodes show Shinji coming to the realization that he has worth, which is turn is what led to his decision to stop Third Impact. When the two endings are viewed as happening concurrently, then that is how End of Evangelion can be seen as a happy ending. After that, you could then maybe go on to watch the Rebuilds.

I have heard that theory from many people, as well as the theory that they were also a mental insight into the other characters as well. I am hesitant to watch End of Evangelion again, not because I am confused by it, but because it triggered my PTSD on a gargantuan level as I’ve explained how, especially in reply number 44. I don’t mind easing myself into the series, but I want to stay away from the movie, especially now I’ve had my second nightmare where I triggered the Third Impact.

It doesn't help the fact that it was originally rated TV-14 before becoming Not Rated for the U.S. Sometimes I wish they put mental illness warnings on movies, or beside the ratings.

You should watch the series indeed. I would also suggest you trying your best to see things from other characters' persectives. At least at the second viewing. It's often said what there are no real villains in Eva, and it's pretty close to the truth, they seem as real as people IRL with their moralities. I believe it is best to not have any prejustice when watching for the first time, but you likely do already, either way. EoE is where the downward spiral of the second half was going, so your first impression of these characters is, sadly, altered negatively. You know what? I think it might be even more important to look at Shinji and see how you two differ. Try to make careful parallels. From a certain point of view, EoE Shinji is considered a different character. While I disagree, it's hard not to see what he changes completely from the boy he was just a couple episodes earlier.
If it happens what to you the character adds up from series to EoE, or if it doesn't add up and you too think they are different. Either way, if you can't let go of the series yet, then I believe EITHER might change your perspective entirely.
I wish you said earlier what you didn't watch the series. Because I honestly think it's pretty much impossible to see that movie in the positive light in this scenario. I definitely wouldn't, if it was completely standalone. It shows a very warped perspective of reality, but the thing is, it has a lot of reasons to do it this way.

IgRAzm wrote:You know what? I think it might be even more important to look at Shinji and see how you two differ. Try to make careful parallels. From a certain point of view, EoE Shinji is considered a different character. While I disagree, it's hard not to see what he changes completely from the boy he was just a couple episodes earlier.

A couple episodes earlier, I’m sure we would’ve restrained himself from masturbating to Asuka’s comatose body. I’m EOE, he’s changed for the worse.

To be perfectly honest, I don’t want to compare myself with Shinji anymore. So far it’s done nothing to me but make me feel worse.

Reasons don’t justify the fact how warped of a reality of is. As I’ve stated before, I felt offended by the fact that everyone could simply come back from LCL if they chose to. In the real world, once you die, you die. There’s no coming back from it. You cannot just die then realize your life means something, especially if you’re the one that wishes everyone should just die, that never happens. And yet this movie seems to place so much emphasis on it and so lightheartedly, it’s disturbing.

You know, now that I think about it, Pacific Rim to me seems like a more suitable candidate for the time being. Im sure it borrows many things from Japanese culture such as big mechs and kaiju’s. Pacific Rim is like...Evangelion without the depressing mindfuckery and religious paraphernalia, like being put on mood stabilizers. I’m sure there are plenty of parallels to be drawn from both franchises.

Pacific Rim feels more...down to earth if you know what I mean.

A couple episodes earlier, I’m sure we would’ve restrained himself from masturbating to Asuka’s comatose body. I’m EOE, he’s changed for the worse.

To be perfectly honest, I don’t want to compare myself with Shinji anymore. So far it’s done nothing to me but make me feel worse.

I don't think it's a good idea to compare yourself to Shinji in EoE without knowing what actually makes him himself. I think you admitted what it was a honest mistake on your part, though.
I can't really tell you what to do. But the way I see it, there are not many better ways to improve your perspective than doing this while actually knowing the entire story. I'm not even talking about the message of that movie, I don't think you are being fair (or can even be entirely fair, as it is a sequel and not stand alone) towards it. But aren't you at all interested in the life of a person before and the process of falling from grace?
Maybe I didn't need to say it this way. For you, "comparing" is seemingly highlighted in a bad light at this point. The good part about NGE is - it doesn't need you to necessarily overanalyze it's characters to connect with them. If that will interest you, then it will; if not, then it won't.

IgRAzm wrote:I don't think it's a good idea to compare yourself to Shinji in EoE without knowing what actually makes him himself. I think you admitted what it was a honest mistake on your part, though.
I can't really tell you what to do. But the way I see it, there are not many better ways to improve your perspective than doing this while actually knowing the entire story.

You not too far off. I do know about the trauma that Shinji went through, watching his mother die and being shunned by his father. I’m uncertain if I myself would’ve been able to handle that in this world to be honest. But you’re right, I don’t know the entire story, which is why I have the feeling I’ve overlooked something in EoE to which many people claim is a “happy ending”. I could be wrong. But every time I try to think back on it, I find nothing but the fact that it triggered my PTSD big time.

Having little to no knowledge of the series save for it the synopsis among a number of articles and critiques. But I feel that aspect alone wouldn’t be enough to skyrocket my PTSD.

I just...I want to feel that I’m not crazy for feeling this way. On how the movie was able remind me of the pains of my sophomore years and brought them up, going so far as to give me nightmares of triggering the Third Impact. Reply number 44 explains it in detail.

Maybe it’s a combination of all these; little to no knowledge, PTSD, quarantine.

Reasons don’t justify the fact how warped of a reality of is. As I’ve stated before, I felt offended by the fact that everyone could simply come back from LCL if they chose to. In the real world, once you die, you die. There’s no coming back from it. You cannot just die then realize your life means something, especially if you’re the one that wishes everyone should just die, that never happens. And yet this movie seems to place so much emphasis on it and so lightheartedly, it’s disturbing.

You know, they put emphasis on what nobody actually died. When Shinji asks Rei if he died, her answer is straightforward, "no".

It's so lighthearted, sure... The single thing I can think of in this direction is Yui, telling it all in a calm, hopeful voice. It's in a motherly tone, because she is talking with her son. It is pretty hopeful, because it's supposed to be, after all the grimdark we've just been through.

You are saying what nobody could possibly see meaning in life if they think everyone should just die. Well, that implies what nobody has real breakdowns and low points. Saying things like that is, in a way, childish. That's intentional, people do get less mature, the closer to the heart you hit them in these moments. It doesn't mean they can't possibly improve afterwards.

You are saying all this too matter of factly. While you don't have the full image and have a bias. I understand what the movie caused and I want to be sympathetic, but you have to realize what it's possible to be too harsh on a movie's intentions. You are being this way right now. Assuming it wants to teach of some twisted morality, you are completely ignoring the characters' journey and all the story what was leading up to the events of this movie. I think it's pretty hard to have your franchise be more anti-suicide, than how much Evangelion is.

Hopelessromantic wrote:You not too far off. I do know about the trauma that Shinji went through, watching his mother die and being shunned by his father. I’m uncertain if I myself would’ve been able to handle that in this world to be honest. But you’re right, I don’t know the entire story, which is why I have the feeling I’ve overlooked something in EoE to which many people claim is a “happy ending”. I could be wrong. But every time I try to think back on it, I find nothing but the fact that it triggered my PTSD big time.

Having little to no knowledge of the series save for it the synopsis among a number of articles and critiques. But I feel that aspect alone wouldn’t be enough to skyrocket my PTSD.

I just...I want to feel that I’m not crazy for feeling this way. On how the movie was able remind me of the pains of my sophomore years and brought them up, going so far as to give me nightmares of triggering the Third Impact. Reply number 44 explains it in detail.

Maybe it’s a combination of all these; little to no knowledge, PTSD, quarantine.

My latest response was harsher, but I want you to realize, it's directed only at your statements about the messages. I can see why you say it, but I think you might understand why I'm trying to defend something what you didn't see in the full context. Just imagine if there was a filmmaker, your close friend, and you didn't watch the first half of his magnum opus. It hit you hard, and you assumed what it was your friend's intention to bring the most unpleasant reaction from you.
Anno too was concerned about otakus, especially with him being one of them. Many say what he made a commentary on the world, but the way I see it, he most likely just wanted to finish his story in a way what would be the most honest to himself, to his hidden inner self. It is the most emotionally traumatizing work he's done, as a result.
I never had PTSD, but I can relate to a desire to connect my feelings to something substantial and defendable.
If you are consciously trying to make sense of things, like I did, you aren't crazy. Crazy is a label to deflect any reason, sometimes even an excuse.
I think, it would be good as well to try imagining yourself as a creator. In some of your post you were pretty fair, in others not so much regarding the intentions of authors. To me it became pretty eye-opening, when I started to put myself in the shoes of those who made what I watch. It's a bit of a habit at this point, but I usually can turn it off if it makes it be beneficial. You can watch whatever you want, but there really would be a lot of value from watching NGE in the intended order. At this point, as one plus, you can be prepared and find the best version, having been so aquanted with the forums and the veterans.