Stuff that you would like to see in Evangelion 3.0+1.0

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Re: Stuff that you would like to see in Evangelion 3.0+1.0

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat May 30, 2020 7:54 am

Oh, I think Shinji will "Rebuild" relationships with the Wille crew in Shin Eva. The movies have been really focused on Shnji's relationship with Misato, to the point where I consider Misato to be as much of a main character in NTE as Shinji. (Some fans don't like the fact that Rei and Asuka have been relegated to supporting cast members in the new films, but that's a whole different conversation entirely.) The ending of these films kinda hinge entirely on whether or not Shinji and Misato can reconcile past sins and move forward in life together. In Eva Ha, Misato admitted to Shinji that she's been living vicariously through him and realizes how large of a burden that would have been for him to bear. Shinji just wants to find acceptance in some fashion, and is finding less-than-healthy ways to go about it. ("My dad praised me for piloting Eva that one time? Then I'm gonna continue to pilot Eva- OH SHIT WHY IS HE TRYING TO KILL MY FRIENDS???") Through this, they've hurt themselves and even each other with the way in which they've been trying to find acceptance with each other. My prediction is simply that, when Shinji does find acceptance, it won't be because he as to be an Eva pilot, play the piano really well, or make a girl swoon in order to gain their acceptance. Eva Q set up that Shinji has to learn more about the world he's now living in, and I believe that in Shin Eva he'll do that. As he learns about the world, he'll be able to better relate to the people within it. I still don't think any of it will be romantic or sexual, but it'll be meaningful and healthy.

I also think Misato will be "redeemed" (for lack of a better term) in Shin Eva. Misato didn't have a great time conveying to Shinji what exactly happened in Eva Q. She was in a constant battle with Nerv, and Shinji didn't even believe half of the thing she was saying to him anyway. I think there will come a point in Shin Eva where things will quiet down a it and Misato can work out what she needs to do with Shinji and find the best way to relate to him moving forward.

I don't think Eva will end with Shinji kissing anyone. Heck, we didn't even get a recreation of the "kissing out of boredom" scene from Episode 15 of NGE. Romance hasn't yet been a subject inside the "Rebuilds" outside of Kaji's relationship with Misato, and I don't think it'll be brought up in the context of Shinji for Shin Eva.

Evangelion isn't really interested in who Shinji gets to bone. Outside of fanfics, neither should we.
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Re: Stuff that you would like to see in Evangelion 3.0+1.0

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Postby Shun » Sat May 30, 2020 9:27 am

FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Oh, I think Shinji will "Rebuild" relationships with the Wille crew in Shin Eva. [...] The ending of these films kinda hinge entirely on whether or not Shinji and Misato can reconcile past sins and move forward in life together. [...] As Shinji learns about the world, he'll be able to better relate to the people within it.


Fully agree with this.

Regarding a possible romantic situation, I really don't know. Considering the Utada's ending songs and the relationship between Murdoch and Anne in Thrice upon a time, I wouldn't be surprised if there was something in Shin Eva, for example Shinji who saves someone (princess Asuka?) as he did with Rei in 2.0, and one kiss. However, as you say, for the moment the prediction is difficult, considering that Asuka and Mari lived more than Shinji during the time-skip. It's one movie, doing more of this would be too much, in my opinion.

The main problem I think is learning to move forward despite the mistakes made in the past. This Shinji can do it if he begins to know better the world and himself, and relates himself with others in not self-centeredly mode.

Btw, I'd like to hear a new song by Utada, and Pachelbel's Canon.
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Re: Stuff that you would like to see in Evangelion 3.0+1.0

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Postby Blockio » Sat May 30, 2020 8:54 pm

I honestly hope that there won't be any major relationship including Shinji at the end; for one because I'm kinda sick of every story ever thinking it needs to include one, and for other because Shinji finding happiness on its own without building it entirely around the appreciation of another person would arguably be the best end point for his character arc and actual character growth instead of just shifting the object of focus
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Re: Stuff that you would like to see in Evangelion 3.0+1.0

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Postby Derantor » Sun May 31, 2020 8:48 am

If there's one thing we can be sure of, it's that Shinji won't be in a romantic relationship in the end. Even in the TV-Ending alternative world he didn't have one, and if there was one place for teenage wish-fullfillment, that would have been it. Eva in general seems to view sexuality as a dangerous drive that needs to be suppressed and controlled until you've got the rest of your character completely in order (read: Forever), as it can never help forming true intimate bonds (even Misato and Kaji reconnect through other means and their first try at a relationship failed). The rest of it is portrayed as objectification at best and abuse at worst, with the NTE doubling down on that (all the fanservice seems to be there for that reason). 2.0 condemns romantic notions themselves (Save the girl -> End the world) and 3.0 reinforces that by having Kaworu's platonic but apparently highly emotional love for Shinji backfire completely.

So unless I misread all that completely, I think that Thrice Upon a Time will advocate a pre-Romantic-era (or post-2000 or so), rational, restrained and "pure" concept of love and relationships. A clinical approach, which views every drive and urge as something which will inevitably veer off into pathology if not kept in check by the rational mind at every turn. Isn't really relevant for Shinji in the first place, because:

Shun wrote:Think about Noriko in Gunbuster, [or Anno himself]

Same problem as with EoE all over again; Noriko never did anything harmful to all of humanity (quite the opposite: She was welcomed back 12.000 years later, because humanity still remembered her good deeds), Anno much less so. Shinji isn't only out of touch and alienated, he is directly responsible for the dire fate of the entire world (manipulated into it or not doesn't matter for his emotional landscape very much - he still pulled the trigger, in the end, and enabled the bad guys), and should be highly traumatized anyway. True, there are people who, for example, lived through years of hell in the trenches of WW1 and came out completely fine, but Shinji never was extremely emotionally stable or highly stress-resistant in the first place. He had trouble forming bonds with people to begin with, now he's got two attempted Impacts under his belt and not a single person he can even trust or relate to, courtesy of the timeskip alone, before taking into account his highly unusual experiences. He suffered two breakdowns in 3.0 already (one at Nerv, then almost complete catatonia in the ending), and that's before he even realized the full extent of the changes he will have to cope with, as he is most likely also affected by the curse of Eva. Enjoy raging teenage hormones and stunted physical development (including brain chemistry) forever, on top of all the other stuff that will catch up with him eventually. And who knows what Thrice will do to him - one more Impact to come. If he spends the rest of his life in therapy and manages to lead a somewhat normal life without completely shattering eventually, that would be a monumental achievement in itself.

So no, romance is out of the question for Shinji. Just going grocery shopping is probably too stressfull for him for years to come. But maybe I underestimate him completely and he will turn out fine in the end. Who knows. I'd like to see Thrice ending with Shinji saying goodbye to everyone and entering therapy, as he desperately needs to get away from everybody he knows and into a new, highly structured and unthreatening environment.

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Re: Stuff that you would like to see in Evangelion 3.0+1.0

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Postby Shun » Sun May 31, 2020 12:26 pm

Legitimate doubts. Therapy and a functional environment would be the best solution also in my opinion. In the end the really important thing that Evangelion lacks are normal people who work well, who have normal relationships, who love life and the world.
In NGE almost all the characters are unable to live, and this depends both on the Japanese context of the 90s (cold war, consumerism, economic bubble, Aum Shinrikyo, etc) and on the fact that Anno was an introverted otaku with communication difficulties . And rightly as Tsurumaki said: Hideaki Anno says that, "Anime fans are too introverted, and need to get out more." Further, he should be happy that non-anime fans are watching his work, right? But when all is said and done, Hideaki Anno's comments on Evangelion are that it is a message aimed at anime fans including himself, and of course, me too. In other words, it's useless for non-anime fans to watch it. If a person who can already live and communicate normally watches it, they won't learn anything.
What can an otaku introvert teach? His point of view, what he understood and learned so far. But is this the right solution for otaku viewers? Well, Anno isn't a psychotherapist, he's just a talented person who works in animation. Consequently his answer must be taken for what it is. A causal response limited in a defined period of time, in a defined artistic period, in a defined period of life. A momentary response.
For example, seems to me wrong expect a narratively complete and satisfying ending in EoE, because in those years Anno was depressed. For Anno Evangelion it is his life, and therefore Eva only goes as far as the reflections of the author have come at that moment.

In NTE the goal of Marine Research Center and the goal of Wille, in my opinion, could really give Shinji hope, motivation and relationships with people. But not only Shinji must change, everyone must take a step forward. As I said, I don't think that romantic interest will be developed like that between Nadia and Jean, but I still think there may be something. But I don't know what! :kiss:
As I said, in my opinion Shinji will make it, but I don't know how he will do it. This is the fundamental point, and I hope Hideaki Anno manages it well. But my motivation is always the same: after 25 years, I think Anno has changed at least a little, so I believe (I hope) that the answer is also more satisfactory. But it will still be a definite response in a specific moment of life and art.
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Re: Stuff that you would like to see in Evangelion 3.0+1.0

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Postby The Cruel » Sun May 31, 2020 12:48 pm

^

“I started this production with the wish that once the production complete, the world, and the heroes would change.”

That's a early quote from Anno about Rebuild.
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Re: Stuff that you would like to see in Evangelion 3.0+1.0

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Postby Shun » Sun May 31, 2020 1:36 pm

People say many things, you have to see if they do them. He also said that the NTE films should end within in a few years. :lol:
More than for me, I say for Anno. I suppose he cares about it, since his goal since 2005/2007 is to make Evangelion a pillar of Japanese animation, so that other authors can make other Eva stories. I think Shin will be his personal conclusion. I hope Anno manages to do an interesting movie, and manages to give the characters and the audience a good ending, we'll see ...
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Postby Derantor » Sun May 31, 2020 2:16 pm

I wasn't arguing against the validity of any message here, or whether or not Anno is qualified to teach something - that wasn't my intention at least, I just wanted to shoot down the notion that romance will happen, for one reason or another.

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Re: Stuff that you would like to see in Evangelion 3.0+1.0

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Postby Blockio » Sun May 31, 2020 9:23 pm

View Original PostThe Cruel wrote:^

“I started this production with the wish that once the production complete, the world, and the heroes would change.”

That's a early quote from Anno about Rebuild.

This would actually very much support what Deranator and I are saying, because at the start of Rebuild, all of them are very much focused on getting fulfillment through some form of romantic relationship; change and growth in this context would mean that they realize that they need to work on themselves before they can enter any sort of relationship
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Postby Velorex » Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:00 pm

The only thing I want to see in 3+1 other than a solidly constructed conclusion is to see interaction between Shinji and either Asuka or Misato for a long length of time, it may be unfortunate but time constraints makes it impossible for either character to get the same amount of screen time as did Kaworu with Shinji I fear.

also may be a tad bit off topic but something I wouldn't like to see is a rollback of the wunder's crew attitude towards Shinji. all be it by backpedaling or making their hatred/disdain of him non-existent; akin to what happened in diebuster
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Re: Stuff that you would like to see in Evangelion 3.0+1.0

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Postby Derantor » Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:55 am

Velorex wrote:[...] something I wouldn't like to see is a rollback of the wunder's crew attitude towards Shinji. all be it by backpedaling or making their hatred/disdain of him non-existent [...]

This is most likely what will happen, though, to go with the "Shinji is trapped in his own view" theme of 3.0. They don't hate him, they are just afraid; they feel guilty and don't want to show it. Notice how, even though the attempt proves futile, they explain things to him pretty calmly, even giving him his personal guide. Also notice how Asuka reacts to him running away with Rei: She isn't furious or afraid, just disappointed. "He isn't even an idiot, just a brat." (or something along those lines). Everybody besides Shinji already knows what's up, one way or another: He's just a frightened child.

Besides, they were unsure of his identity, which implies that there's something else going on - possibly clones like Rei, dangerous ones at that - or him being Specimen BM-03 just means that he is the third Pilot they recovered (Mari being BM-01, Asuka BM-02 and Shinji BM-03) and the uncertainty just stems from him being merged with Unit 01 for so long. In that case, both of them (or only Asuka, thanks to being part Angel or whatever now) went through the same treatment Shinji recieved but understood why it was necessary and came to terms with it, so they won't blame him for freaking out at first either. Again, when Asuka recovers Shinji at the end of 3.0, she's disappointed and annoyed, not angry at him (beyond him being unresponsive and not understanding anything). She even lets Rei come with them - so no super hard feelings there either. Quite astounding considering Rei is a brainwashed artificial enemy agent Asuka fought against for who know how many years - or maybe not, nobody knows what went on during the timeskip.

Either way, in the end it was just a big misunderstanding: Shinji learns to accept that there are more perspectives than his own, Gendo's plans are foiled at great cost, then everybody opens up a little and is free to start over, having learned from their mistakes. Avant 1 already revealed that it is possible to undo the effects of Third Impact and restore the earth to its pristine state, so there's no worry on that front either.

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Postby Hopelessromantic » Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:48 pm

The final entry doesn’t have to have a happy ending per se, just something that provides the audience a sense of relief and leaves several questions pondering inside their head. Ultimately, I believe the ending should be bittersweet and triumphant.

My interpretation of the next movie is that the four impacts will be interpreted at the four horsemen of the apocalypse. All the while, Nerv discovered an ancient artifact called “The Fruit of Adam”, held together by seven seals, just as described in Revelation. Only Rei can unlock the seals and make the world reborn, because she is a descendant from the Tribe of David, whose bloodline is that of Lillith. All the while we take a trip into Shinji’s mind, with similar themes in End of Evangelion. Except this time, his breakdowns won’t spell doom and gloom, but will affect him greatly. We also take a trip through the minds of others as they recount their lives, just as in episodes 26 and 27. All the while, Asuka and Shinji will develop a more stable friendship and the romantic spark between Rei and Shinji is reignited. Time begins to run out as an entire army of evas from an organization known as SEELE attempts to destroy Nerv and secure the Fruit. Instead of an instrumentality project, Seele plans on capturing humans as livestock to harvest their souls to power their own Eva’s for the sake of a new world order no matter the methods, and intend to let no one break the Seven Seals. Meanwhile, WILLE is in complete ruins. Then you have similar segments from End of Evangelion as well. During the climax, Shinji and the others defend nerv at all costs, but they all get beaten up as Rei breaks the seals one by one. Shinji sees Asuka’s Eva fall and he suffers a bear complete breakdown until a mirage of Karwou enters his mind and gives him a “eureka” moment. Shinji overcomes his trauma as he pushes his Eva to the absolute limit, seemingly breaking bones in his body as his unit takes the toll. The seven seals are broken as Gendo sheds a tear for his son, and the world flashes white. Much later, Shinji awakens many years later to find himself still in his own Eva unit, now rusted. He exits the cockpit out to see the world is green again, with plants and sunlight and wildlife. He sees no humans. But Under a lone tree, he sees Rei, in a white dress, who turns to smile at him and say, “This is not the end.” And the movie would finish.

What do you think of it?

Edit: How cool would it be to see Shinji grow a pair and reach ultimate synchronization with his Eva? Not going berserk like in 2.0. The last pilot alive saying, “As long as I live, the human race lives! And right now, the human race says go fuck yourselves!”

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Re: Stuff that you would like to see in Evangelion 3.0+1.0

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Postby Mihrdat » Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:44 am

View Original PostHopelessromantic wrote:Please do not quote entire posts like this; edit the text down to what's necessary for establishing the context of your reply. -Reichu


And Canon in D-dur plays in the background during the ending scene. Overall, this sounds like a fitting ending to the Rebuilds. Got the same vibes as from that "Bye-bye, all of Evangelion" poster.

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Re: Stuff that you would like to see in Evangelion 3.0+1.0

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Postby Reichu » Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:13 am

さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:36 pm

Thing I'd like to see:

Until I'm proven wrong I've already decided that Maya's repeated statement of "I can't stand young men" is actually setting us up for the reveal that she's living in domestic bliss with her adorable 28 year old wife Hikari Horaki, now Hikari Ibuki.

Sorry Touji.

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Re: Stuff that you would like to see in Evangelion 3.0+1.0

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Postby chee » Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:27 pm

Gendo's shitty pogs collection.

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Re: Stuff that you would like to see in Evangelion 3.0+1.0

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Postby ShinjiStranglesAsuka » Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:47 pm

I wanna see some more toxicity between Shinji & Asuka again. I miss it from NGE. :uhh:

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Re: Stuff that you would like to see in Evangelion 3.0+1.0

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:11 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:Thing I'd like to see:

Until I'm proven wrong I've already decided that Maya's repeated statement of "I can't stand young men" is actually setting us up for the reveal that she's living in domestic bliss with her adorable 28 year old wife Hikari Horaki, now Hikari Ibuki.

Sorry Touji.

Not Ritsuko? Wow. That’s different.

I would have thought that Hikari would hook up with Asuka. I remember her saying (in a little throw-away like that I didn’t notice until my latest rewatch) that she had to work up the courage to sit with Asuka for lunch. (And then Asuka got upset that Shinji was talking with Rei and shoved Hikari off, so maybe not.)
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Postby Hopelessromantic » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:14 pm

I found something on YouTube whose title mentions 3.0+1.0. It’s in Spanish so I don’t really know what it means, but I love how it looks and really intrigued by what it means!
https://youtu.be/_d0YnE09mFI
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Re: Stuff that you would like to see in Evangelion 3.0+1.0

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Postby Reichu » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:49 pm

HopelessRomantic: Please make at least some effort to put things in the threads where they belong. "I found this video, what is it?" is not "things I want to see in 3+1" except in the most implied and tangential kind of way.

Also, thread for the video is here: thread/17010/Until-You-Come-to-me-EVA-SHORT-FILM-31-HYPE/
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