Princess Asuka and the Fairy Tales.

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Postby ElMariachi » Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:36 pm

Exactly, Shinji has brown eyes only in the manga.
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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:40 pm

View Original PostTMBounty_Hunter wrote:Nope. They are blue: http://i4.minus.com/ibmvXtKahW9wIj.jpg

The screenshopt ElMariachi grabbed from the wiki is from the Explanation of Eva 1.01 which uses the terribly wrong and dark film master for no reason.


Ah, I thought that was Anno saying he preferred the manga's brown over the anime's blue.

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Re: [SPOILERS] Princess Asuka and the Fairy tales

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Postby Chuckman » Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:02 pm

View Original PostChaddyManPrime wrote:Oh I thought it was something awesome and thought provoking :raincloud:


See also here:

http://forum.evageeks.org/post/699757/A-remake-or-a-sequel/#699757
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Postby Dream » Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:14 am

Sorry for asking this, but why is the thread's title "Princess Asuka and the fairytales"?

EDIT: Ahh, thanks. Can't say i noticed the fairytales book.
Last edited by Dream on Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Mr. Tines » Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:58 am

Because Mari refers to Shikiname as "Hime", and Rei-tachi have a book or fairy tales.
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Postby Kendrix » Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:56 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:He mysteriously lost it when Sachiel appeared and was never seen with another one, so the wasn't any watch to give him back in 3.0.


Everyone was slightly off-model in the first half of ep 1.


Another example:

Just when did Misato switch her earrings?
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Re: Princess Asuka and the Fairy Tales.

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Postby Reichu » Sat May 30, 2020 10:07 am

Bump.

Within the "fairy tale" framework, it's typical for Shinji to be referred to as a "prince", I guess because he's a boy and Gendo (his father) is a "king". But the movies seem to be painting a slightly stranger image.

In Evangelion 1.0, Rei in Eva-00 protects Shinji in Eva-01 from the Sixth Angel with the Enchanted Shield of Virtue. As previously mentioned, "Enchanted Shield of Virtue" is a reference to Sleeping Beauty -- this identifies Rei with Prince Philip, and the 6th Angel with the draconic Maleficent. The metaphor starts to get a bit weird in that Rei is not the one who slays the beast -- it's Eva-01, using something that is not a mighty Sword of Truth -- but, nonetheless, what is the ultimate outcome of Rei's fortitude?

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Shinji "wakes up". Meaning that, in terms of the Sleeping Beauty metaphor, Shinji is the Princess Aurora!

Rei a prince and Shinji a princess? Are we going full Ikuhara here, or something? :tongue: Rei being a "prince" reminds me of Anno's admission that he was partly prompted to name her Rei "after Rei Hino of Sailor Moon [as] a bait to invite Iku-chan to the staff". It's also been often been noted that the rescue of Rei's soul in Eva Ha is an homage to Utena reaching for Anthy. Here the roles are reversed, though, with the "princess" (Shinji) reaching for the "prince" (Rei), and not the other way around.

Also, this is nothing new, but just for the sake of having it mentioned in the thread: Mari's fairy tale role is Knight, based on the battle between Eva-05 and the 3rd Angel. Eva-05 visually evokes an armored knight on horseback wielding a lance; the Third Angel resembles a medieval dragon. She's St. George slaying the dragon, in effect. (The historical figure of St. George is not a knight, but for our purposes this doesn't matter; the historical figure did not slay a dragon either. We only care about the "fairy tale version" of St. George -- the archetypal "knight slaying the dragon".)

SPOILER: Show
Image


Depictions of St. George attacking the dragon usually have him attacking either the base of the neck or the head, which is of course reflected in the movie. (The Third Angel is impaled through the base of the neck, and then the core inside its cranium is crushed.)

EDIT: Provided clarification about St. George in response to AL's reply.
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Re: Princess Asuka and the Fairy Tales.

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Postby Arcadia's legacy » Sat May 30, 2020 10:13 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:St. George wasn't actually a knight, but he never actually slayed a dragon, either...

SPOILER: Show
Image


Depictions of St. George attacking the dragon usually have him attacking either the base of the neck or the head, which is of course reflected in the movie. (The Third Angel is impaled through the base of the neck, and then the core inside its cranium is crushed.)


Wait, how is an impaling of the neck not slaying?
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Re: Princess Asuka and the Fairy Tales.

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Postby Reichu » Sat May 30, 2020 10:22 am

That was an attempt to preempt "WELL AKSHUALLY"s, but clearly I should have written something like this instead:

St. George is, in the popular imagination, the archetypal "knight slaying the dragon". The historical figure of St. George is not a knight, but for our purposes this doesn't matter; the historical figure did not slay a dragon either. We only care about the "fairy tale version" of St. George.
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Re: Princess Asuka and the Fairy Tales.

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Postby Blockio » Sat May 30, 2020 8:57 pm

That's a rather interesting interpetation, thanks for sharing! The pieces were always there, but I could never quite draw the connection between them. Interested in seeing how far this might go
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Re: Princess Asuka and the Fairy Tales.

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Postby Joseki » Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:39 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:(snip)

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I don't know how much you can overlap them, but in the "Shogi-view" Shinji is the knight of the story.

Image

thread/19012/The-game-of-Shogi-a-view-on-characters-and-plot-in-Rebuild/

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Re: Princess Asuka and the Fairy Tales.

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Postby Reichu » Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:43 am

These movies are so dense that I haven't had an opportunity to investigate the shogi theming despite being well aware of its significance; thanks for the reminder. In cases like this, one allusion tends not to negate the other; rather, they are both true simultaneously. In this instance, I'm not sure what it might mean, though Shinji having two competing natures in NTE is nothing new.

Kaworu's comment about Shinji "awakening" implicitly refers to Shinji's soul awakening to its original nature (which would include memories of a previous life). So the "princess" that Rei wakes up could hypothetically be Shinji's prior self, "Luvah". Gendo being a "king" messes this up a bit, though (i.e. it makes more intuitive sense for Shinji to be a "princess" because he is the child of "royalty").

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Re: Princess Asuka and the Fairy Tales.

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Postby Velorex » Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:44 pm

I know of some Shogi players, I can ask them a thing or two.
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Re: Princess Asuka and the Fairy Tales.

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Postby The Killer of Heroes » Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:40 pm

In rewatching 1.11 and 2.22 (Gonna get to 3.33 again tonight hopefully) after who knows how many years (So long that I didn't even remember posting in this thread previously), honestly I think we probably haven't put enough emphasis on the fairy tale references throughout these movies. They're apparently significant enough to be the subtitle of the final film ("Thrice Upon a Time"), so I think AlphaGamma, Reichu et al. really are on the right track here with arguing their significance.

Some more fairy tale references that occurred to me:

-Kaji's Urashima Taro comment in 2.22. Typically this seems to be read as foreshadowing for story direction 3.33 would take and I think that's correct, but it seems more significant now even since its fairy tale used to make that connection.
-Asuka gaining wings during Bardiel's invasion of Unit 03. Its almost like she's a fairy of sorts. Fairy princess even, maybe?
-2.22's climax has sort of Monkey's Paw feel to me now. Throughout whole Zeruel battle we have Rei wishing for a world where Shinji doesn't have to pilot Eva anymore and Shinji wishing to get Rei back, damn everyone else. Whatever moral judgement we make on Shinji's comment and whether he even truly meant what he said, it does seem like 3.33 grants both of these in that ironic Monkey's Paw sort of way with some extra apocalypse on the side.
-Gendo is not just a bad guy but a flatout evil King that's gonna have to be fought in final film- the kind of villain a fairy tale might have.

I'm sure there are more and if you can think of others, post 'em.

What do we actually make of this fairy tale theme running throughout the movies though? Like, why does this theme keep coming up over and over and over again? Is Anno saying something about fairy tales? Simply trying make a fairy tale for current generations? What do y'all think?

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Re: Princess Asuka and the Fairy Tales.

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Postby UrsusArctos » Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:47 am

Fairy tales have an overarching theme to them, in that the hero/heroine leaves what is otherwise a largely mundane world and goes through a supernatural adventure to return towards real-world status (in happy tales) where they gain wealth, power, status, or marry. You might say that a fairy tale is meant to help children grow up and show a pathway out of a childlike world of the magical and fantastical towards mundane good outcomes. Anno probably has something of the sort in mind for Shinji.

Asuka's wings come off to me as "angel", because Eva-03 is infected by an Angel of course, and angels have wings too! But you're right that the sparkles that follow Asuka's wake do seem rather fairylike. Mari calls Asuka "princess", and Mari is someone who's in the know, so Asuka is a princess too. Under fairytale logic, I'd say Shinji and Rei form a princess-prince combo while Asuka and Mari form a princess-knight combo.
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Re: Princess Asuka and the Fairy Tales.

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Postby Zusuchan » Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:03 am

I'm not sure whether or not this has already been mentioned somewhere else in the forum or maybe even on the Discord server, but talk of the whole Bardiel fiasco reminded me that there could be a thematic reason behind Asuka's infamous "slutsuit" as well, in that it's symbolic of a virgin girl being prepared as an offering for the gods. Or something. I'm not too sure about the potential implications of this and the full meaning of it all (especially since her growing wings is more indicative of her gaining powers-then again it could be argued to be maturing as well, especially since Reichu's "The Children are the Adams" theory will most likely be correct, so it works like that too), but I think this is interesting nonetheless.

The similarities between Wilde's stories and NTE aren't probably truly deep, but I'm inclined to think there's a certain similarity there nonetheless, not so much in terms of plot, but of themes and characters. I've read the stories, but besides from discussions of self-sacrifice, selfishness and a certain giant becoming friendly and conversing with the Christ Child, I can't think of anything else that has further meaning to NTE. But I've never been good at deep analysis anyway, so...

I also agree with UrsusArctos that the worthiness of a mundane life could very well be something that Anno's going for and I think that is the case-though personally I also suggest he's sprucing his tale to be a bit more nicely mythical at the same time, adding some flavor, so to speak. But yes, a way of making a story that goes from the fantastical to the more mundane and showing a pathway out of unnecessary childishness does seem like the kind of thing Anno would be inclined to do.

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Re: Princess Asuka and the Fairy Tales.

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Postby ShinjiStranglesAsuka » Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:54 am

Rei
Prince because of her usage of the enchanted shield of virtue.

Shinji
Prince because he's the son of a King (Gendo).
Princess because he's defended by a Prince (Rei). He's also been "asleep" for 14 years(?) further tying him to the sleeping beauty.
Knight because of the shogi symbolism, shown twice in fact.

Kaworu
Could be another Prince, but it's ambiguous whether he's calling Fuyu or Gendo "father" in 2.22.

Mari
Knight because of her slaying of the 3rd Angel as Reichu pointed out above.

Asuka
Princess because of Mari's nickname. Also been asleep for an unknown amount of time.

There're definitely a lot of overlaps, particularly in regards to Shinji. Fun stuff! ^_^

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Re: Princess Asuka and the Fairy Tales.

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Postby Arcadia's legacy » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:03 am

A shot in the dark here, but could Yui fill the role of Queen?
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Re: Princess Asuka and the Fairy Tales.

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Postby kuribo-04 » Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:34 pm

Image

This kinda looks like an invite to dance. Disney has taught me fairy tale people do this.

Might be splitting hairs.
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Re: Princess Asuka and the Fairy Tales.

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Postby UrsusArctos » Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:29 am

Those are some fascinating connections there. And it really does look like Shinji's inviting Rei to an old-fashioned ball dance, since they're both wearing gloves!

View Original PostShinjiStranglesAsuka wrote:Shinji
Prince because he's the son of a King (Gendo).
Princess because he's defended by a Prince (Rei). He's also been "asleep" for 14 years(?) further tying him to the sleeping beauty.
Knight because of the shogi symbolism, shown twice in fact.


Heavens to Murgatroyd, even! Shinji is Princess Sapphire! :rofl:

Good grief, is Anno sneaking in references to Osamu Tezuka and his "star system"? I wouldn't put that past that inveterate Otaku!
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